Open 837: Cop Killer - Endgame

[Galron]

Gotcha. Fair enough then.

[Auro]

Could LQ be playing in this bizarre fashion to avoid being widely townread and thus perhaps killed by the opposing faction?

:think:

[Auro]

VOTE: LQ

[LicketyQuickety]

Could LQ be playing in this bizarre fashion to avoid being widely townread and thus perhaps killed by the opposing faction?

:think:

LOL.

[LicketyQuickety]

LOL, even Bingle can derp.

Well, yeah. But in this case I was just trusting the VC to be accurate.

T3 (4)- Bingle, Galron, LicketyQuickety, Auro (E-2)

^T3 Wagon

VOTE: T3

What does pressing this button do?

^ Reason for T3 Wagon

FWIW, I've seen Bingle do this sort of thing as Jester. IDK if/how that correlates to them being Scum here unless he's looking to clear himself by pointing out other people derping in 5D 4D worlds and then they do it to soft clear themselves.

IDK that's what I got on Bingle. It's probably bad, because I'm bad at this game, but it is what it is.

IF I live to D3 then I'll probably do work during Night Phase, but I'm not about to put in a bunch of work just to get Limmed here D2. Roden seems to be SRing me for things that are NAI, but they are confirmed Town so their vote pulls more weight then it probably should.

I'll put some effort into this game tomorrow. Probably do some ISOs of my Nulls or something.

[mc esther]

UNVOTE:

just taking lq off l-1, imma revote when guiltylion gets back with his promised readslist

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Bingle

Let's try something spicy.

LQ:

*Tries to start a Galron wagon*

*complains nobody wants to vote Galron*

*scumreads Bingle for jumping on the Galron wagon*

*votes Bingle*

This is bizarre behavior

I kind of get his reasoning.

I mean I *get* his reasoning too, but that doesn't mean it's good reasoning

Do you think Bingle is scum for jumping in there with a Galron vote?

This is so strange to me. Like I normally SR people for "bad reasoning" but I go elsewhere to play Mafia and the general idea is that Town are more likely to not make sense. Yes, I realize that puts me precariously between worlds, but it is what it is.

[Bingle]

Hmmm.

VOTE: Auro

This time it's actually a scumread!

[Auro]

And how so?

[Bingle]

801/802 feels very much like you’re playing to an audience and not so much like you’re being genuine. I have no doubt you think LQ is scum, but I think you care more about how the vote looks either way.

[Auro]

First part - guilty, but not because I'm scum, I like the style

Last part - I don't envision how the vote could look *bad*? Based on what I've expressed before about LQ, I could simply naked vote and it should be fine. If anything, I'd be far more worried about my laziness and lack of thorough engagement with people if I was caring about how my slot looks.

[GuiltyLion]

GL 12 am edit - so I wrote half of this post (Roden->Auro) earlier today and saved it as a draft. the rest on mc Esther -> LQ I'm gonna try to revisit and write tomorrow, I had dreams of finishing it today but I'm too tired and that's not a realistic plan nor would my thinking likely be clear enough at this point. also some interesting stuff has happened since I first wrote this! Stuff which I wanna think about in detail and incorporate into my view of the gamestate. So here's a half finished reads post to try to honor the commitment I wanted to set out, and another one that I'll be around more tomorrow.

alright, here's the bird's eye view of my reads at this moment, pending probably some D1 rereading, ordering in the brackets does not matter:

Conf town: {Roden}
Feel-good-about-townreads: {DArby, Bingle}
Feel-iffy-about-townreads, likely one or two deeper scum: {Galron, T3, Auro, mc esther}
Current desired limpool: {Enchant, Pav, LQ}

DArby

, I think is the most agendaless and pure player. I fully agree with Bingle's logic about needlessly jumping into a third wagon when Roden/Salsa were both dueling wagons. I think it's townie that he hot taked a Salsa townread right before EOD1 (541), there's simply no benefit to scum doing that in multiball when scum would be uninformed about Salsa's alignment while fine with her lim, and it's a take that only serves to push discussion and put the spotlight on himself going against the consensus view. I also just generally agree with or at least understand his perspective whenever he's given it, I think his D1 LQ suspicion/paranoia is believable and I've come around to feeling the same way, I like how he's forming townreads and using them to try to either challenge certain players or form a useful townbloc, and I haven't seen any disingenuinity in anything he's posted. My strongest TR.

Bingle

, I've seen a few things from him I like a lot for town. The way he made sure to rush out thoughts in twilight I generally think is a good look. I'm fully with him on townclearing DArby D2. Whenever he's scumread/suspected someone, but especially me, I feel he's treating the slot fairly and with intent to deepen understanding rather than just push for the sake of push - his paranoia/suspicion around me vibes heavily similar to me as D1 Situation Room when we were both town and he felt I wasn't living up to my normal levels of effort. I don't fully agree with his T3 vote/wagon but I can definitely empathize with why he wants attention there. Posts like 663 (I wasn't going to bring this up until another game ended), 693 (Enchant can get wagoned without me, I want to see who votes where), are the kind of nuanced one-level-deeper opinions delivered in honest fashion that tend to be much harder to fake as scum.

Galron

, vibewise he just feels holistically townie to me. He's been very consistent in how he jumps in with particular questions (48 and 49, 356 and 357, 365, 690 and 706) that feel to me like they indicate real solving intent and an evaluating mind behind his posts, rather than one playing with an agenda. The only reason he's not in the top tier is he's been keeping his overall reads/votes close to the chest, but I imagine that could be more a play style thing than an alignment thing, I haven't gotten any sense that he's leveraged that lack of transparency to make any too-convenient votes or reads yet.

T3

- I don't have a great sense of how to read T3, he plays in a very fast and loose style that sometimes feels like it's overtly scummy for being too unthinking, but I've gotten the sense a few times that he really has no agenda here. I feel scum would be too self conscious to post things like 399 and 401. The fact that he gave a meta read on Enchant in 400 but then went back and found evidence against it in 406 I waffle a lot on - generally I think town should be like... thinking

through

the read BEFORE posting it, but here I kinda feel why would scum!T3 bother to look at the ISOs at all? Like does scum!T3 really gain anything from preemptively correcting himself on his own read? Doesn't feel like he's pushing it with any agenda, in any case. I think 668 and 669 also just feel too honest to be scummy - again there's no real self consciousness behind his posts and I remember scum!T3 in Situation Room feeling a bit more cautious and self-aware. Also played with more purpose in that game. He could still be scum, but I just have a few things that don't add up to it for me.

Auro

- Auro and I clashed a fair amount in the last game I remember being T-T together (NSG's neighborhood game) and I am getting the sense again that he's dedicating similar energy to poking/sorting me in a similar fashion, always jumping in to quibble with small bits of statements I make. Other than the one signaling line of discussion towards Pav that I called out yesterday, I haven't felt any strong disagreement/dislike or agenda to any of his questioning posts. However I am a little worried he does seem a bit more detached with it, like when I try to think about who Auro townreads/scumreads and why, I don't have a very strong impression. I can imagine him being town, but it's not especially hard for me to imagine him being scum.

--------

as I said at the top, rest to come later. I'd probably be down to help move the LQ wagon along through, or to lim Enchant, but pending a good night's rest and me writing out things I don't like about those bottom three slots. Though I'm reluctantly considering re-evaluating on Pav again since I

guess

it's not that weird to use the most common ice verb, mostly because no one else seemed surprised by that

[GuiltyLion]

I dunno I don't feel especially satisfied with anything yet this game. I'm 0/2 on early scumreads in a game with 4 scum, and the PL is either tryhards who have scumgames I respect (Bingle, Auro) or jokesters that I'm not especially familiar with enough yet to read well (Pav, T3, Enchant), and The Mysterious Clearly Experienced Alt in mc esther, so I don't have a super solid axiomatic towncore or scumread to use as a foothold to build the rest of my reads around. I think maybe town!DArby/Bingle and scum!LQ feels like a decent foundation to sort everyone else, but I'm not like 100% sold myself yet on scum!LQ, it just feels pretty likely given how many scum are in this game and my hope that I have at least a couple townreads right

[mc esther]

The Mysterious Clearly Experienced Alt in mc esther

hehe, thanks <3

fwiw, i havent played a forum game (here or on any other site) since the [late] quicktopic era, and doubt anyone would remember me, i was never particularly known. i dont really think of this account as an alt, it's very much a "new era, new main" type thing. my old account would have perhaps been less subjectively mysterious, but probably no more useful to you in terms of figuring out what im "usually" like; nowadays, im usually like this!

[Auro]

a bit more detached with it

I perceive this game very differently to the rest due to multi-ball and high killing power, so while I'm following the game I'm not too bothered with

immediately nailing scum

.

[Bingle]

the [late] quicktopic era

Now you have me slightly curious. That’s my origins. I’m jingle, used to hang around site chat most of the time, had a few very active hydrae, was involved with pretty much every game that had the ETL/Antihero crowd.

[Bingle]

Last part - I don't envision how the vote could look *bad*? Based on what I've expressed before about LQ, I could simply naked vote and it should be fine.

That’s kind of my point. A naked vote would have been fine. Instead you dropped in with your theory about intentionally being weird to dodge a kill which feels unnatural and performative.

Why do you think LQ is playing up the weirdness?

[Bingle]

FWIW, I've seen Bingle do this sort of thing as Jester.

Fwiw my game plan there was be town->die to paranoia. Unless you’re talking about specifically the failed hammer on the last day in which case I don’t think miscounting votes is a particularly AI indicator for any alignment for me.

[Auro]

Last part - I don't envision how the vote could look *bad*? Based on what I've expressed before about LQ, I could simply naked vote and it should be fine.

That’s kind of my point. A naked vote would have been fine. Instead you dropped in with your theory about intentionally being weird to dodge a kill which feels unnatural and performative.

Why do you think LQ is playing up the weirdness?

Yeah, but performative per se doesn't necessarily imply scummy, no?

I was performative for the sake of being performative for that specific post - I simply added some bit of flair (as I judged). If you believe I didn't believe a naked vote would be enough, I'd see why tailoring a post would be scummy. Otherwise, there's no specific

scum motivation.

Also, I'm missing A50 this game already

I do stand by my theory , I think LQ's disinterest feels forced (per my model of expected LQ behaviour), especially compared to his D1 play from what I recall. Either way, this setup is really fun (4 scum out of 11 alive, with two opposing factions,

with a compulsive vig/doc

, it's wild) and I'd like to lim people expressing disinterest and handing out uninteresting/shallow takes.

[T3]

Forgive me if I don't sheep you on this one.

My heart, she breaks.

This sort of reads like SvS behavior, but I'm not doing that this game.

Hard disagree. That strongly seemed like not s/s behavior

[Galron]

a bit more detached with it

I perceive this game very differently to the rest due to multi-ball and high killing power, so while I'm following the game I'm not too bothered with

immediately nailing scum

.

Are you talking about to the rest of the plist or games or what? I get the high-powered killing thing but not sure how that fits with what you're saying.

[Galron]

I think Guilty Lion redeemed himself a bit with the wall reads list in my eyes. I'm now more town leaning than scum leaning him unless he's the type to tryhard as scum.

[Galron]

Would be interested in the rest though

[Not_Mafia]

VC 2.02

Galron (0)-

Enchant (1)-

DArby

Pavowski (0)-

Roden (0)-

Bingle (1)-

LicketyQuickety

LicketyQuickety (3)-

Roden, Enchant, Auro

GuiltyLion (0)-

DArby (0)-

Auro (1)-

Bingle

mc esther (0)-

T3 (1)-

Galron

Not Voting (4)-

Pavowski, GuiltyLion, T3, mc esther

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to instantly eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-12-14 19:00:00)

- Dec 14th 19:00 GMT

[Auro]

a bit more detached with it

I perceive this game very differently to the rest due to multi-ball and high killing power, so while I'm following the game I'm not too bothered with

immediately nailing scum

.

Are you talking about to the rest of the plist or games or what? I get the high-powered killing thing but not sure how that fits with what you're saying.

To other games. In a vanilla game with a single scum faction I'd prolly be tryharding while I'm alive.