Micro 1035: Commandless Chain of Command [game over!]

[Something_Smart]

yes

[Something_Smart]

Oops

I got distracted playing pokemon ok

[Something_Smart]

Lol that sounds about right

You caught Mena-scum and then he killed us

[Something_Smart]

Not at the moment but I'll be able to engage with stuff tomorrow if anything happens.

[Something_Smart]

Mindhack Diva (hydra of PookyTheMagicalBear and Alyssa The Lamb) replaces Salsabil Faria.

!!

I will start Playing the Game™ today I promise

[Something_Smart]

Did people miss IV saying he is scum

ok but that doesn’t mean you aren’t

this is such a weird reaction

[Something_Smart]

oh shit oh fuck, jesus christ what have i done

lol

[Something_Smart]

Wait, I just mixed up Ico and IV in my head so badly there, ignore that

Knowing Dwlee and IV aren't scum together... actually does help to some extent, because it means that what went on earlier wasn't theater.

I believe that is +town for Dwlee.

[Something_Smart]

ss do u have any thoughts on life, the universe, and everything?

were you intending to go anywhere with this?

[Something_Smart]

i'm actually a little worried you're scum skitter lol but i want that to be wrong so badly

To a rough approximation, my plan for dealing with skitter is to give her a chance to go god-mode and if it seems to be taking her a while then she's probably scum.

There was more to this post but I realized it didn't actually make anything clearer

[Something_Smart]

Pages 6-9 are just shitposting

It's been a hot minute since I played with Alyssa I kinda just want to take a similar angle to skitter. This is a micro though so we can't be giving too many people extra days. Hmm

[Something_Smart]

What's the point of asking me that tho since i dont believe u posted since then

Oh I was just curious if there was a specific thing you wanted thoughts on or a specific reason you singled me out there. I realized that my response kinda looked like a dodge.

[Something_Smart]

sounds like u think I’m scum...

I lean that way based off of 54, but that's not why I said that. I think Dwlee would be more likely to realize it was a joke if they, you know, knew it was a joke. (Whereas that interaction could easily have been Dwlee freaking out that their partner just scumclaimed if not for what I mentioned.)

[Something_Smart]

I’m sorry I’m something dumb I have no idea what you’re saying here

If Dwlee is scum and you're town, they would know your scumclaim was a joke and would be more likely to react accordingly instead of acting like they thought it was serious.

I assume that's the part you were having trouble understanding?

[Something_Smart]

I'm not ducky's favorite tiger </3

[Something_Smart]

Aren't you some kind of flying alien?

I'm a tiger in my heart (also, it's my college's mascot)

[Something_Smart]

Shocking

It is actually a little surprising because she mentioned a recent scumgame of mine where I constantly promised content and never delivered, but I feel like I delivered reasonably well this time.

Do you think she was setting up to vote me or something?

[Something_Smart]

If u do have any general reads, would be curious to hear them

If you wanted a response to this, I don't have anything besides what I've posted here.

[Something_Smart]

SS GTH

what's your read of me rn

Null

[Something_Smart]

-

This looks terrible on mobile lmao

[Something_Smart]

if i had to throw out a vote i felt good about it'd be on SS.

No u nerd

Why is everyone pretending I'm good to pressure early

[Something_Smart]

Lets talk abt the fact that osuka has many posts but literally no reads

Osuka, is this true?

[Something_Smart]

@ss i found this string of posts a bit jarring from d1-you

Go on? What's weird about them?

[Something_Smart]

* he has no reads in his iso, if you'd like to be technical

I have a comment but I want to see his response to my question first.

[Something_Smart]

Only one sentence in those posts is a read and I didn't even explain it until prompted, lol...

I certainly didn't mean to put a lot of effort in. They don't really read high-effort to me.

[Something_Smart]

I wanna make sure the thing is accurate before I comment on it...

[Something_Smart]

I'm really not sure how to parse this game, it feels a lot more one-dimensional over the last few pages than it really should with the events of the game so far.

What events are you referring to?

To me it still feels that we're getting off the ground.

[Something_Smart]

Same question to skitter, I guess.

[Something_Smart]

That is a good point, I suppose. It seems pretty weird to suggest that scum are lurking right off the bat, especially over a holiday weekend.

[Something_Smart]

I think alyssa is saying that she feels like the game is relatively, but is surprised that once she pointed that out, pressure didnt relly turn to the inactive people. Is that right?

I think you missed an important word here

[Something_Smart]

SS how do you feel about Duckie pushing you?

"Push" is a generous term.

I think it's... well I don't think he's making much of an effort to engage with me or understand my point of view. Which is bad, but he has limited bandwidth and this is a loaded playerlist, so I don't blame him for focusing his mental energy elsewhere.

But it doesn't exactly make me feel secure, because I have the charisma of a limp mushroom. If a wagon developed on me then pretty much anyone here could bury me if they so desired, and there isn't much I could do about it if I didn't have the support of people like him.

[Something_Smart]

either you're not giving yourself enough credit, or limp mushrooms became a lot cooler while I wasn't looking.

I mean, I'm using charisma in the mafia sense of the ability to get people to listen to and follow me... you saw what happened in 8-ball.

[Something_Smart]

king ss you were radiant in 8 ball! and i got eliminated!!

You got eliminated because nobody listened to me telling them not to kill you :X

[Something_Smart]

Well, go look for it...?

[Something_Smart]

After class !

On my phone in math rn lol

Fair enough

[Something_Smart]

Why wait until postgame lol. To my knowledge very few people have been able to toneread me well, I don't know if you're one of them, but I feel like mostly when we've played and you've read me right it was because of actual things I did rather than just ~tone~.

But it is early. And this game is kinda... moving sideways. (That's a good way to put it I think. It's not that it's going

nowhere

, but it isn't exactly going

forward

.)

[Something_Smart]

Ss do u have any more thoughts on life, the universe, and everything? I feel like there is more content now since i last asked

Well 528 is pretty wrong. I think it's probably just Dwlee not knowing me though because I don't see the scum motivation to pivoting off me there.

[Something_Smart]

hMMMMMMM

it's times like these I wish I suggested voyeur for the setup.

How strongly were people even scumreading him? Because the options are basically kill him now or give him a free pass to exlo...

[Something_Smart]

oh everyone was talking about townslips but I don't think anyone brought up the actual townslip yet

[Something_Smart]

ss i feel like i literally have to drag content out of you >.>

Yeah sorry that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. This game has too many reactive players and not enough proactive ones, methinks.

Osuka feels... pretty different from how I remember his towngame being. But that was a

long

time ago.

I asked 328 because my thought was, if osuka admitted that he wasn't really getting much from the game, that'd be pretty towny. Instead he comes back with 395 which is like really one-dimensional? And does not reflect my previous experience with him (in that game he made a serious and correct vote on me on literal page 1).

All of this is probably +scum but like... four-year-old meta is not exactly the most reliable source in the universe.

[Something_Smart]

why is that an actual townslip

Because scum have a claim given to them for free, they don't need to get one ready.

[Something_Smart]

And I don't feel like that post would be worded the way it was if Dwlee had knowledge of the free fakeclaim. Dwlee, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Something_Smart]

There was no scramble, IV flat-out said he wasn't going to claim.

[Something_Smart]

maybe scramble's the wrong word, but the hesitancy doesn't feel town to me

If anything, the part that I don't like is going back on his initial decision not to claim.

[Something_Smart]

Porque?

[Something_Smart]

When was the last time we even rolled town together lol

[Something_Smart]

Oh I guess it was the cursed potion game

That's not one I'd like to have to think about, but I guess I have to

[Something_Smart]

Even that isn't a really good representation though because I'm looking for what the dynamic between us is normally like when we're both town. But we have an awful tendency to roll scum against (and occasionally with) each other

[Something_Smart]

I seem to recall you not ever reaching out to me this much as scum. But maybe I'm just misremembering it.

Regardless I think your interactions with me have felt pretty genuine. But the point I'm kinda trying to make is that for all the games we've played together I'm not sure how useful our experience will be since in both cases it's colored by seeing the other person as scum a lot.

I think that this game is disjointed and disconnected and not conducive to solving, so I feel like it's only natural that my attempts to do so would come out as fragmented and incomplete.

[Something_Smart]

I feel like given the number of games we've played together it would be impossible for you not to use meta.

Have you played with disengaged-town me lately? I think this is about as much effort as I'm capable of... like, sure I could be rereading shit but I don't feel that that would really help.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: skitter

[Something_Smart]

I mean the way our convo went was I felt like I was basically talking past you.

I don't scumread you, no, but I feel like this is an appropriate situation for a mirror vote. (I just made up that term but the concept is not new)

[Something_Smart]

You passed my shitty test, for what it's worth. I wanted to make sure that you would actually think critically about the mirror vote instead of just shrugging it off and continuing to call me scum.

[Something_Smart]

I think scum-skitter was more likely to just ignore it and/or filter it through an "S_S is scum" lens. Not that it was guaranteed, just more likely.

[Something_Smart]

I was trying to read what you said, but i basically felt like you were trying to shift the convo onto meta grounds, and then negate any meta-based arguments by saying we havent played a lot of tvt

I mean, to some extent I was. I'm very sensitive to this dynamic where someone plays one game with scum-me and then thinks they have my number and proceeds to call me scum in every game ever for things I do every game. This has happened to me multiple times.

And as I was thinking back on our recent history I felt you were at fairly high risk of doing this, and if you're town here then you kinda are (obviously not EXACTLY the same because it's not like you're confident, but I see the similarity).

I do firmly believe that it's impossible to read someone you know as well as me and not have meta enter the picture at all. Like you can't just go on assuming that I play the same way as everyone else when you know that isn't true.

But more than that I feel like you didn't make an attempt to fit my posting into a townie mindset. Like regardless of how much sense it would make for me to play this way as scum, I don't feel like you really tried to judge how much sense it would make for me to play this way as town, despite my explanations of why it makes sense from my position. Or maybe you just didn't verbalize that process, but if so I would very much like to hear it.

[Something_Smart]

Laugh me off the block for this if you want, I don't care, but I think the above post is probably not in my scumrange.

[Something_Smart]

I think the ideas probably are, but I'm not sure that I'd be able to formulate things so cleanly. Honestly don't know. You can probably ignore this post and the previous one, but this is a time when I should definitely be as forthcoming with my thoughts as I can.

[Something_Smart]

It's not ditto, it's azelf, get it right.

[Something_Smart]

I feel like we've spent 10 days talking abt nothing and looking in the wrong places

I mean yes

[Something_Smart]

something smart is deciding vote

oh no

[Something_Smart]

On the plus side having two wagonees both not voting their CW makes it way way more likely to be S/S.

[Something_Smart]

I think it's weird as fuck SS said you passed his reaction test but his vote is still on you

Please don't express opinions on me if you don't read my posts.

[Something_Smart]

ss if theoretically you were the deciding vote between osuka and ducky who would you vote?

Probably osuka. The last time I let ducky die D1 I mega regretted it.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: skitter

[Something_Smart]

Oh vig is one-shot.

VOTE: no exe

[Something_Smart]

Hmm okay

So what order do we claim in

[Something_Smart]

Well we have one conftown at least so letting them lead is surely best

Go for it I guess

[Something_Smart]

I have one townread and we have one conftown who presumably isn't you so yeah probably?

[Something_Smart]

pretty much purely PoE

[Something_Smart]

Wait you shot ducky?

I was just assuming MD was the vig shot.

[Something_Smart]

Well now I have to go and reread MD to figure out why scum would want to kill them.

You should set the rest of the claim order, assuming you aren't counterclaimed.

[Something_Smart]

I investigated Skitter and she was not a vt.

Which night?

[Something_Smart]

Actually, I think it's better for me to claim first.
I tracked MD nowhere N1 and DArby nowhere N2.
VOTE: Dwlee

[Something_Smart]

If DArby is also scum, I might have given up the chance to go 2 for 1, though he probably claims he acted N1 anyway. But if he's town then this should give a bit of credence to my claim since I'd have no reason to claim this knowing he

could

contradict me.

[Something_Smart]

Actually, there's a 2 for 1 anyway, because IV never claimed his target, so if IV confirms Dwlee then they're likely scum together (or Dwlee just got lucky but with an unknown third PR that seems like a pretty risky thing to try).

[Something_Smart]

Also, note that Dwlee is claiming that scum blocked IV N2, a time when a missed kill means absolutely nothing and could easily have been a gambit.

Pedit: no because we went straight from D1 into mylo, and I didn't have any info yesterday anyway.

[Something_Smart]

N1:
- Mindhack was fairly scummy and fairly suspected but not LHF so that makes them pretty ideal to carry out the kill if scum. I think there were a couple posts of theirs I didn't like, I don't remember, but I can go back and look.
N2:
- Based on my skitter vote I figured skitter wouldn't be killing if scum, I townread Dwlee, and between the other three DArby seemed the hardest to read and most null in general so he was the best to have info on.

[Something_Smart]

So, I guess the way this went down is, scum realized that if only one of them claimed PR that it was going to be 4 PR claims 1 VT claim, and the VT claim would look the worst since why would scum both claim PR's if there were only 2 real PR's. Which I guess is true regardless of who the team is. But if you are to assume that the scum in me/Dwlee claimed PR out of (perceived) necessity, then it makes a lot more sense that Dwlee had to take a stab in the dark (presumably because IV used the mod provided one) than that I deliberately went into a 1v1 knowing that the conftown scumread me.

I don't think I would even leave you alive skitter, let alone force myself into a 1v1 that's an autoloss if I lose it with you deciding.

[Something_Smart]

I didn't really have any idea, the Mindhack shot could have come from anyone.

[Something_Smart]

I mean if you had tried to do anything with it it would have been counterproductive. I think it was best saved.

[Something_Smart]

I disagree if it was a normal day that I was hoping it would be because then I’d be able to push more of Skitter.

I still don’t see how a fast day helps town.

It forces scum to narrow down the field without any info. Obviously if they had known skitter was the vig they would have killed her instead, so getting A50 killed was actually pretty good.

[Something_Smart]

I think this is probably just a 2v2.

Technically DArby/Dwlee is possible but it would be pretty weird and lucky.

[Something_Smart]

I guess it does make sense for the person claiming tracker to make the N2 kill, though.

[Something_Smart]

And me/IV is impossible, because then the visit Dwlee saw N1 would be him blocking you, but your shot went through.

[Something_Smart]

Darby/iv - impossible for the same reason ss/iv is i think

Well also impossible because there would be two trackers lol

[Something_Smart]

Dwlee/iv - nothing blocking this one i think? Other than bizarre that dwlee/iv's stories dont match up

For what it's worth, their stories do match up, they're just trying to portray a situation where IV was RB'd N2.

[Something_Smart]

Why not me

You had a wagon, makes you less likely to be doing the kill.

Would have been quite an L if I did though lol

[Something_Smart]

and i don't think you're scum with dwlee

GG I guess? Why not?

[Something_Smart]

Yeah? I mean I don't think Dwlee randomly guessed IV's target

[Something_Smart]

And wait what is non-partnery about 601, is that not mega partnery? Like Dwlee is simultaneously distancing from IV and implying he actually might be town

[Something_Smart]

well, if they're scum together dwlee is lampshading the fact that his partner had to think up a fakeclaim and forgot that he had one readily available, seems weird to me

Why assume that IV forgot about the fakeclaim instead of deliberately stalled?

[Something_Smart]

If your fakeclaim is doctor... it's not a gimme, necessarily. He may have wanted to verify it with Dwlee, or even just see if his wagon would go away without needing to claim.

[Something_Smart]

If your fakeclaim is doctor... it's not a gimme, necessarily. IV may have wanted to verify the doctor claim with Dwlee, or even just see if IV's wagon would go away without needing to claim.

That make more sense?

[Something_Smart]

Verify as in, hey buddy is it a good idea to claim this

[Something_Smart]

Apparently everyone just thinking Dwlee is psychic up in here.

I guess that makes me feel better because if everyone agrees on something in lylo it's sure to be wrong.

[Something_Smart]

Well both IV and DArby are apparently heavily considering the scenario where Dwlee is scum and IV is town despite that requiring a risky guess with little upside.

[Something_Smart]

But I mean if you don't feel like actually listening to my arguments nor those of the three dead townies (including the one killed by scum) who townread me, then go ahead and vote I guess.

[Something_Smart]

You know Dwlee was my only townread coming into the day, right? Why do I 1v1 them rather than DArby, or IV, or just nobody? (Or even you tbh)

You know how much faith I have in my scumgame, why would I expect to win ANY 1v1, let alone after choosing to leave you alive?

[Something_Smart]

Because you and I were fighting? Even if you didn't vote me it looked like I might vote you

There's an argument to be made that I kept you alive by voting you yesterday tbh

Why wouldn't

I

have killed you six years ago?

[Something_Smart]

Pedit ok this is fair and i dont know why you do that, but scum obviously planned to get in a 4way mess and idk why any of you do that

I mean from an IV/Dwlee perspective it makes sense. IV was already locked into his claim, so Dwlee made a claim to back him up and was hoping there wouldn't be a counterclaim.

From me/DArby... why is this the line we take? Like I don't see the explanation for that beyond WIFOM, but the other way there's a very clear and simple explanation.

[Something_Smart]

i think u wanted me to be the elo misflip

Yup, when I'm the only person alive who scumreads you and I'm notoriously good at convincing people of things. Makes sense, makes sense.

[Something_Smart]

And I actively counterclaimed Dwlee instead of counterclaiming you.

[Something_Smart]

Oh, that's true. Ignore my arguments for why I wouldn't counterclaim Dwlee.

But don't ignore the fact that I made them... I genuinely didn't think of that angle, because I'm not scum.

[Something_Smart]

I mean presumably that wasn't your goal, it was just incidental.

[Something_Smart]

Your goal would be to back up IV's claim

[Something_Smart]

I still don't get this in regards to the context of 601. Could you please break it down a bit more because it's not clicking for me.

IV knew he had a doctor fakeclaim and deliberately stalled out for a couple of different possible reasons. 601 is simultaneously distancing (because Dwlee knew it wasn't the real reason) and defending (because Dwlee is arguing IV is town).

[Something_Smart]

I think Skitter was very likely the mislim if she wasn't confirmed

Why?

[Something_Smart]

IV and I both had expressed suspicion on skitter so you likely would have pushed there

Why didn't I CC her then

[Something_Smart]

It's easier to win an argument against the person who was my top townread with someone who has vocally scumread me as the conftown decider?

[Something_Smart]

Why would it matter if I wanted to mis-exe her anyway?

[Something_Smart]

Because that's the only way to get skitter killed if I think that's the highest chance to win?

[Something_Smart]

Highest chance to win would be not taking a one on one, which you don't have to if I don't have a clear

If skitter is the most likely to be voted this is just not true

[Something_Smart]

ok i guess my question is why does dwlee need to back up iv anyways?

Because he's a PR claim who hasn't died or done anything? You don't think people might sus him for still being alive?

[Something_Smart]

I don't understand what you mean by "win an argument with", it's not an argument. I present my case, they present theirs, you judge and decide which is stronger. You have already gone on record as scumreading me and you have seen me as scum about 1000 times lately and I respect you enormously as a scumhunter in general. If I'm arguing with anyone it's with you, why the hell would I kill A50 instead of you (not to mention burn the roleblock making sure he dies)

[Something_Smart]

Because you kept yours on me, and then you had a wagon so it seemed like it could produce information.

Idk mostly because you were wrong on me I guess

[Something_Smart]

oh more irony

Are you really shading me for having stances? You have seen my scum game right?

[Something_Smart]

I see you conveniently skipping over all the posts where I said Dwlee and IV's interactions look like theater

Just admit you're looking for excuses to scumread me and move on.

[Something_Smart]

well not shade so much as noting earlier you were calling it a townslip and now that i'm calling it a point in not teamreading dwlee/iv you're saying it's associative for them

It can be +town in isolation and also +partnery.

[Something_Smart]

i only read the day1 isos since i remember most of the day3 ones.

They are on day 1

[Something_Smart]

Did people miss IV saying he is scum

ok but that doesn’t mean you aren’t

this is such a weird reaction

sounds like u think I’m scum...

I lean that way based off of 54, but that's not why I said that. I think Dwlee would be more likely to realize it was a joke if they, you know, knew it was a joke. (Whereas that interaction could easily have been Dwlee freaking out that their partner just scumclaimed if not for what I mentioned.)

I’m sorry I’m something dumb I have no idea what you’re saying here

If Dwlee is scum and you're town, they would know your scumclaim was a joke and would be more likely to react accordingly instead of acting like they thought it was serious.

I assume that's the part you were having trouble understanding?

[Something_Smart]

What is standing in the way of the Dwlee/IV solve?

[Something_Smart]

and i do see your point, but i guess i wonder why scum-dwlee even calls so much attention to that bit in the first place

Because it's distancing? Scum will interact with each other in all sorts of weird ways. And I specifically called it out but Dwlee threw me off with the Ico thing.

I don't know why that tell should have applied since Ico wasn't in the game, in retrospect. They could have easily legitimately misremembered something Ico did as having been done by IV.

[Something_Smart]

- i'm still not sure why they didnt have a fakeclaim ready if dwlee put iv to e1

IV admitted he was hoping the wagon would die down without a claim

- why do they feel like they need to coordinate where the rb shot went

is that more complicated/less likely by default than not doing it? it's just a thing they decided to do

- why iv is still kinda confused/unsure if he oughtto be townreading dwlee, wouldnt the whole point of corroborating the claims be to be able to townread each other?

I mean nobody's reads matter but yours so like, I can easily see why they wouldn't want to associate too closely together.

- dwlee kinda got there, and had a natural thiught process as they worked through the implications of the claims in a way that i thouhht was townie, but why didnt iv have the implications of the story down

I mean this applies to me and DArby as well, we all had a process of figuring it out. I think it's well within IV's wheelhouse to fake that.

[Something_Smart]

I still dont really get why u think i'm supposed to think its townier that you're cc'ing dwlee and not me either tbh

It's not per se but Dwlee is trying to argue that I was trying to execute you today and I'm arguing that if that were my plan I would have just cc'd you.

The thing that's town indicative for me is that you are still alive

[Something_Smart]

I mean it's a bit different on D1 and D2 versus going into lylo... and we were aiming for PR's that game, whereas if I were scum aiming to kill PR's in this game I could have, you know, killed the claimed PR.

[Something_Smart]

- you seem to have been gearing up to pushing me since like eod1, and killing me would kinda ruin that

so would not counterclaiming you!

- i have a counterexample where i was pushing scum-you and i wasn't a high priority kill at all (yes i just reread the scum pt of that game >.>), so i'm not sure why i should think you would have auto-killed me here

I mean it's not like you're an auto kill but if I'm looking to endgame I sure don't want you calling the shots on the most critical day. And if it's me and DArby I sure as hell wouldn't have him claim neapolitan and then expect him to endgame...

The other thing is like that game was going terribly for scum. You make different plays when you're hoping for a miracle than when you get a free mylo after day 1. Even if I were to not kill you why the hell would I kill A50 of all people?

[Something_Smart]

Also out of everyone here, i think you're the most likely to do claim/mechanical shenanigans

So why didn't I then? Claiming a PR with a result on the person killed by mafia is not mechanical shenanigans

[Something_Smart]

If I already know I'm in a bad spot and I know skitter is going to be deciding why do DArby and I both claim weaksauce results

[Something_Smart]

By that i meant: having both scum claim prs

Well if one scum already did (i.e. IV) then the other one doing it is a no-brainer. Because if there are 4 PR claims and 1 VT claim then the VT claim is gonna look scummy because why would scum both claim PR's if there were only 2. I believe I already said this and I stand by it.

[Something_Smart]

Probably accurate, depends if you got me on a good day.

I'm happy to back off if you want to talk to someone else, but I'm going to keep this up otherwise. Even though it's been a while since we were both town I'm hoping you will eventually see the difference between this and e.g. Radio Buzz. Because I feel it quite clearly.

[Something_Smart]

In Radio Buzz D3 my whole plan was to look consistent and appear to make sense. Which failed miserably because nobody was even trying to listen to me, but my response to being ignored/shut down was to repeat the same 2-3 things like a stuck record.

I have no plans for how this day will go because I need to adapt to what happens. If I were scum I would be planning for the worst (insert pun here), if not at the start of the day, then certainly by now. And I can't say for sure if and when that will come out, but I can definitely feel the difference.

My focus this day has been on providing my perspective on every argument levied against me. I'm not sure, but I would be surprised to hear that I never deflected/minimized arguments made in Radio Buzz. I have tried not to do that here, I would much rather give an attempt at refutation even if ineffective because it gives you a better window into how I'm thinking.

I don't think I need to say how this is different from D1 and D2 of Radio Buzz.

If this sounds like a level of self-awareness that would enable me to manipulate it as scum... like I said, on a good day, maybe. But it's hard to get the right frame of mind for that because I have to be motivated without being stressed, and I also have to acknowledge that I can do something that feels very impressive to me but doesn't actually convince anyone (see Baton Pass).

Side note I'm not sure that all of this is true about Radio Buzz specifically but it's definitely an insight into how I play scum, especially where mechanics are involved.

[Something_Smart]

I don’t think anyone brought this up by @SS, why is Dwlee your top townread if you both are cc’ing each other?

Well obviously they aren't

anymore

They were coming into the day

[Something_Smart]

And then we both gained psychic powers and lived happily ever after, the end.

[Something_Smart]

Also fwiw i really dislike this because yours literally doesnt require any psychic powers at all

I mean it totally does? How would I know for sure that DArby would act N1? Granted if I

had

to guess one or the other that's what I would guess, but if I'm scum I didn't have to open myself up to that loss vector.

[Something_Smart]

Of the one-shots in this setup, 3/4 of them should act N1, yeah. But would DArby know that? I don't think he's ever played in a game with a town one-shot before.

[Something_Smart]

Regardless of my ability to guess, why does Dwlee make a guess that gets them straight-up killed if they are wrong, without even the chance to distance?

[Something_Smart]

Like surely they were not in

that

bad of a position coming into the day, even if partnered with me...

And me counterclaiming Dwlee wouldn't even matter if IV called them out first!

[Something_Smart]

I mean maybe but trying to guess a track result on someone isn't the easiest way to fakeclaim tracker, especially when your result also confirms them as town...

I think JK/RB are probably easier, too, since if Dwlee was trying to target me or DArby they could have just said they blocked one of us one or both nights irrespective of what we claimed.

Watcher's also not that hard, especially if claimed on IV.

[Something_Smart]

If I wanted to gamble on IV visiting you, I could have claimed watcher on you N1 and then I wouldn't need anything about a went nowhere N2

I mean the N2 isn't any kind of gamble, it doesn't really add or remove anything from the claim. So I'm not sure why this would be intrinsically better. (And yeah it would risk another CC from whoever's town in me/DArby.)

[Something_Smart]

I have started thirteen different paragraphs with "I mean" in this day phase.

I need to mix up my verbiage a bit.

[Something_Smart]

The watcher is one shot so there wouldn't be a N2 result to have to makeup if I'm scum

But making up no visit is perfectly safe because of the roleblock, was my point.

[Something_Smart]

Oh also fmpov ik Dwlee is scum now. There’s no way they can have that confidence it’s me, not share it, and I’m town (which I know).

Speaking of out of the loop...

[Something_Smart]

if you guess iv's action wrong the team crom your pov just becomes iv/ss vs darby/ss, no?

No, Dwlee becomes confirmed scum. There's no way for IV to be scum if Dwlee is town based on their result.

[Something_Smart]

What they said basically. IV if scum would have to have roleblocked you N1, but you weren't roleblocked.

[Something_Smart]

If ss flips red i just die

Weird to suggest Dwlee would throw but ok

[Something_Smart]

My point was that if I flipped scum then IV would have to be town and scum could only RB him if Dwlee were scum so killing you would be a scumclaim from Dwlee.

[Something_Smart]

I keep looking at the thread title and expecting it to say "game over".

[Something_Smart]

if it’s dwlee/Darby it’s just gg but with how insistent Darby is on killing dwlee it doesn’t feel like the solve to me.

Lmao this is not a real thought

"DArby is pushing the person who's mechanically confirmed scum to him, that would be a weird thing to do if they were partners"

[Something_Smart]

Like that's actually a perspective slip

[Something_Smart]

Looks right.

And the reason I think it's a perspective slip is that town IV would have to ask himself why DArby is so insistent on killing Dwlee whereas scum IV just needs an excuse to argue for killing me first. So even if it's something that is hard to grasp, he'd be a whole lot more likely to grasp it as town because he actually has to be doing critical thinking.

[Something_Smart]

And I continue to not understand why you think Dwlee makes a guess that gets them immediately killed if wrong. That is not a gambit, that's just stupid. There was even a chance Dwlee got called out before I got to counterclaim them. That wouldn't benefit a hypothetical Dwlee/S_S team at all.

[Something_Smart]

Also don't forget that osuka and tw and MD were all townreading me. I can go try to pull some quotes if you want. Can't say for sure that I wouldn't have killed MD because that is a scary duo, but I think if I were fearkilling I would have gone for you over them probably.

[Something_Smart]

Yes and?

It seems like you think me/Dwlee is the most likely so if I can convince you it's implausible then you're more likely to settle on the solve I think is correct.

[Something_Smart]

Anyway, does anyone else get weird pings SS is defending his confirmed scum read? Or is that just a me thing?

What I'm really doing is defending you, by the way.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, at least skitter recognized that I was not arguing against Dwlee-scum, I was arguing against Dwlee-scum + IV-town.

[Something_Smart]

you clearly haven’t been reading his posts if you think the mech is why Darby susses dwlee…

I mean thanks for showing that you know he's town? Obviously if he were scum, he

would

know, because his partner would have told him.

Like you suggesting that scum DArby wouldn't push partner-Dwlee here is ridiculous, Dwlee would have told him to because they know they're in a 1v2.

[Something_Smart]

A) Why are you defending me? Am I not potential scum to you?

No? I've already made it quite clear that I don't think Dwlee takes a roughly 75% chance of an immediate loss.

[Something_Smart]

i mentioned this already but I got a similar vibe when he pushed me for my doctor claim

When I what?

[Something_Smart]

Me and Darby gonna be on pay-per-view tomorrow

This is not someone who's about to lose in F3, btw.

I mean maybe it could have been. But this strikes me as gloating.

[Something_Smart]

Dwlee as town should know that even if I'm executed today, skitter lives to see tomorrow and probably votes Dwlee.

Dwlee as scum doesn't care about any of that. Hence that flippant post.

[Something_Smart]

Did I miss something then? Legit question.

Mechanically you can be scum. I just don't think you are.

[Something_Smart]

Honestly the more SS posts the more it just reads like scum floundering.

Based on what experience?

[Something_Smart]

The only time we've played together is Squid Game. Did I flounder there?

[Something_Smart]

Also why would you associate desperation with being scummy when me getting killed is game over if I'm town and literally our plan since the massclaim if I'm scum?

[Something_Smart]

Right, I forgot that scum want to align themselves and sound as connected and in sync as possible.

[Something_Smart]

And Dwlee and I are both such newbs that we can't help but make the same arguments as each other, even though those arguments don't come from logic at all and aren't at all reasonable.

[Something_Smart]

Also don't forget that osuka and tw and MD were all townreading me. I can go try to pull some quotes if you want. Can't say for sure that I wouldn't have killed MD because that is a scary duo, but I think if I were fearkilling I would have gone for you over them probably.

I'll requote this I guess.

It is not easy to get tw to townread me.

[Something_Smart]

hopefully this isn't wrong but eh i don't think i'm goign to reach

further

clarity at this point

FTFY

[Something_Smart]

Why do I call my own partner's post a townslip and then proceed to 1v1 them

What kind of a plan is that, Dwlee was literally my only townread coming into today

[Something_Smart]

i still kinda think the plan was to push me coming into today

Why didn't one of us counterclaim you then??

[Something_Smart]

i really don't know, i don't know why scum have made any of the choices they did this game tbh

I mean from an IV/Dwlee perspective I don't see what was weird about their plays at all.

But CC'ing you if that was our plan is about the simplest thing imaginable. I don't see how that could be our plan and we just abandon it immediately.

[Something_Smart]

If your idea of a mechanical mess is Dwlee has a high chance of confirming themself as scum then yeah I guess that could have been our plan.

How are you seeing that as most likely? I really don't get it.

[Something_Smart]

Dwlee's result makes scum-IV/town-Dwlee impossible, since IV's N1 visit to you would have to be a roleblock but you weren't roleblocked.

If IV contradicted Dwlee's result, it would make town-IV/town-Dwlee impossible, obviously. This would guarantee Dwlee-scum.

If Dwlee is scum and not with IV, this was the massive risk they ran by guessing.

[Something_Smart]

They contradict each other

They literally don't, what are you even talking about? They corroborate each other.

[Something_Smart]

Talking about the claims there, not the actions necessarily, idk if that's what you meant. But you said the claims don't mesh together when they absolutely do.

[Something_Smart]

Like that's just confirmation bias... how on earth can you say that my/Dwlee's claims mesh but IV/Dwlee's don't? Dwlee literally backed up IV's action.

[Something_Smart]

neither if you have a sense of urgency about getting flipped or not

w h a t

I have made over a hundred posts in five days, if that's not a sense of urgency then

what the hell is

[Something_Smart]

- you're inexplicably townreading darby

...

[Something_Smart]

Maybe contradict is the wrong word but they dont have a unified story coming out of this for where scum is

But that's just distancing, because if they were both town, then they should both be pushing me/DArby. IV doesn't really seem to have been thinking critically about why Dwlee would or wouldn't try to guess his action.

[Something_Smart]

We basically went from D1 right into lylo. Why would you expect your reads to be good?

[Something_Smart]

Bizarre on a partner

It's also bizarre from a townie!

[Something_Smart]

I don't understand why arguing or disagreeing is anti-associative.

[Something_Smart]

I... I feel like it isn't that hard to come up with stuff like that as scum? Especially 949, how the hell is that anti-associative at all.

I feel like you're severely underselling their abilities. They are not newbies, and it is not exactly hard to play this day as scum. Dwlee can make up some BS justification for targeting IV. IV can express some doubt about Dwlee and Dwlee can respond reasonably to that.

You are familiar with distancing... I saw you with lilith in City that Never Sleeps. You two did

that

completely unprompted, this is nothing compared to that. And it's all just lip service anyway because they know your vote is the one that decides, so that frees them even more to do whatever.

[Something_Smart]

- dwlee figuring out the implications in real time (i.e. i didnt grt the sense that they had already thought thru the implications, like i imagined they would have if scum anc this was planned out)

I figured some things out in real time as well... and DArby didn't really figure them out at all. Surely this counts against a me/DArby team at least as much as it counts against Dwlee being scum?

- while dwlee was coming to the conclusiont that iv is town, iv is coming to the conclusion that dwlee is scum -> this is what i mean by uncoordinated, if they're partners with a corroborated story why do their conclusions feel so disjointed and unplanned?

I mean, Dwlee

had

to come to the conclusion IV was town. Given that, it makes total sense to me why IV would not want to do likewise as that makes them look very heavily aligned. In my opinion, IV laid it on too thick and town-him actually should have been more trusting of Dwlee, but he was afraid of looking too aligned.

- like 954 dwlee has to tell iv the implications of the result -> wouldnt that have been discussed already as scum?

954 isn't necessarily Dwlee explaining anything to IV... it's not like IV would never have made the vote he did if he knew that. It's just Dwlee explaining why that vote is bad from Dwlee's POV, which doesn't seem that hard to fake to me?

- dwlee seemed to have been planning the use of their action since iv claimed, to which dwlee's reaction made you think they didnt know scum had a freeclaim. They cant be scum together and plotted the fakeclaim while dwlee didnt know they had a fakeclaim ...

Well obviously I misjudged whether that was a fake townslip. I really should have realized the caveat about them both being scum, because as I said it makes sense for Dwlee to fake-shade IV for the wrong reason (to distance from the real reason which is that IV was deliberately stalling, something he admitted to by the way!).

- why did iv claim like that to begin ...

Either to discuss with Dwlee if the doctor claim was actually wise, or to see if the wagon would go away on its own. He admitted the latter was true, at least, in 1033.

[Something_Smart]

If DArby is also scum, I might have given up the chance to go 2 for 1, though he probably claims he acted N1 anyway. But if he's town then this should give a bit of credence to my claim since I'd have no reason to claim this knowing he

could

contradict me.

Actually, there's a 2 for 1 anyway, because IV never claimed his target, so if IV confirms Dwlee then they're likely scum together (or Dwlee just got lucky but with an unknown third PR that seems like a pretty risky thing to try).

Also, note that Dwlee is claiming that scum blocked IV N2, a time when a missed kill means absolutely nothing and could easily have been a gambit.

Pedit: no because we went straight from D1 into mylo, and I didn't have any info yesterday anyway.

I think this is probably just a 2v2.

Technically DArby/Dwlee is possible but it would be pretty weird and lucky.

I guess it does make sense for the person claiming tracker to make the N2 kill, though.

And me/IV is impossible, because then the visit Dwlee saw N1 would be him blocking you, but your shot went through.

What about this is not figuring things out in real time

[Something_Smart]

Iv doesnt seem to realize that he's conftown to dwlee is my point, which i think he would if they had come up with this plan ...

Would he not also if he were town? That kinda seems like something that would be relevant if he were, you know, actually trying to sort Dwlee.

[Something_Smart]

Like you are totally right about RB, that was extremely TMI. (The arguments weren't pre-prepared, but I did come with knowledge of exactly how the guns worked.)

But the posts I quoted seem pretty damn different from that...

[Something_Smart]

Is there a way you would expect town-me to come to that conclusion differently? Like, that was like my 5th post or so after everyone had claimed, there were a good 20 minutes in there. I was trying to make sense of why Dwlee opened themself up to a CC, and that's what I came up with.

[Something_Smart]

This was the hardest I tried in a game in like a year

[Something_Smart]

mechanics > reads.

[Something_Smart]

And also none of them did anything useful for town

[Something_Smart]

Vig bad in a micro, I think I can get behind. D2 mylo is pretty disgusting.

[Something_Smart]

oh also skitter I was close to roleblocking you D1 because I was paranoid of getting tracked

surely this would have gotten you killed right? why would scum ever RB an unknown after a doctor has claimed

I say surely but it seems like most people weren't interested in mechanical arguments... at the very least I would have been pretty sus of you had this happened.

[Something_Smart]

Not sure about the first bit, I think you are right about the second. Roleblocking a doc after a no-exe is mega pointless.

[Something_Smart]

I don’t follow?

the worst dies because skitter claims vig that she tried to vig the worst but failed

The worst flips town and it makes skitter look back

Oh because loyal. Yeah maybe but I'm pretty sure I still wouldn't sus skitter after that happened, that doesn't seem like a play she would make.

The exception being if DArby outed his result before skitter managed to claim, then her claiming unconfirmable PR would indeed look sketchy.

[Something_Smart]

if skitter doesn’t die for claimed vig slot flipping town then every scum should do it bc it’s like the easiest fake guilty backtrack ever

It's a meta thing, both metagame in general (scum faking guilties in non-win situations is rare) and skitter's meta in particular (skitter wouldn't sacrifice herself to trade with a townie). If it became more widespread then obviously people would start scumreading it.

[Something_Smart]

more maybe-not-so-vague mod commentary:

Spoiler:

my heart goes out to s_s.

<3