Micro 1038: Brass and Shrapnel - Game Over

[Pavowski]

F I R S T

VOTE: Eden

[Pavowski]

I actually don't think I've played with anybody on this list

Except maybe Flea? Were we in a trust fall game a little while ago, maybe?

[Pavowski]

Sir, this is a Wendy's

[Pavowski]

VOTE: Cheeky

for handing out TRs to half the plist

This looks like scum grumpy they're not on the obvtown list

Gottem!

[Pavowski]

Should I be concerned the game haven't gone boom yet? :/

You mean in terms of posting or in terms of people actually going boom?

My understanding of the rules is the shooting and booming happens only at night

But I, too, was expecting more posts by now

Then again, it's the holidays, so I guess people maybe have better things to do?

[Pavowski]

Part of the appeal of this setup is going to be watching chain reactions of people blowing up and mass casualties, so maths aside I would lean against a full claim here.

[Pavowski]

An assumption is made that all Town tells the truth.

(and I dunno where and how much psychology features in your maths but there are certainly possible motivations for town to lie here)

[Pavowski]

VOTE: Cheeky

for handing out TRs to half the plist

I see that the Onion is taking a very layered approach to this game

[Pavowski]

VOTE: Cheeky

for handing out TRs to half the plist

I see that the Onion is taking a very layered approach to this game

Get out

[Pavowski]

Ohoho I see what you did there

[Pavowski]

zefiend is zetown.

We should just play the game out.

Still a good idea. What do you think about the votes against you?

Explain why to me, would you?

Sorry for getting memey, let me not bury a legit question

[Pavowski]

Yeeting me a pagetop on this slow day

Merry Christmas to those who celebrate, I will probably still be reading thread tomorrow because I am an enormous scrooge

I'll even give you content, I don't love LGW's naked vote

[Pavowski]

Merry Christmas!

Even you, Pav, my ducky man.

Humbug!

[Pavowski]

The desire to hammer this just to juice this game is strong, but I don't think I'll actually do that

Instead I'll VOTE: UNOwen for so casually (and knowingly!) putting LGW on e-1 and putting this in lolhammer territory.

[Pavowski]

I would like you to give me some examples where town could be motivated to lie. I understand that gambits exist, but I would like you to walk me thru a hypothetical where it could be beneficial. And I also understand that by posting an example, scum will be aware of it. But in a game with potential town-lies, that's an added layer of WIFOM so I don't see the harm in sharing.

I'm not here to argue that these would be wise plays, but if a bomb could make a convincing case that they're a super saint, they could avoid getting limmed and bait a NK. The reverse would probably also be true, a super saint wanting to avoid a NK might claim bomb and try to get scum to hammer them.

Granted there are tons of other variables in these scenarios, and they might backfire on town (literally, lol) just as likely as bagging scum, but those are 2 off the top of my head.

[Pavowski]

The desire to hammer this just to juice this game is strong, but I don't think I'll actually do that

Instead I'll VOTE: UNOwen for so casually (and knowingly!) putting LGW on e-1 and putting this in lolhammer territory.

Do you really think scum does that?

I find it worth applying a little pressure at the very least

[Pavowski]

This game is slow.

LGW is not voting anybody at present, and ZeF has not yet voted. What up with that?

[Pavowski]

No idea.

... just checking are we still RVS? Cause i might just votenado

RVS ends when we say it ends

I'd say we're past that phase, though

[Pavowski]

Barely if so

You want to stay in RVS longer? =x

[Pavowski]

VOTE: Eden's Flame

Water summons wind.
Wind makes fire dance.

Nicely done

[Pavowski]

Finding it difficult to interact with the thread

Not in a meaningful fashion at least

Kinda weaksauce

What's stopping you?

[Pavowski]

The thread has life this morning, Eden, and there are some votes against you, surely you have opinions

[Pavowski]

ok I hate these, but SNAP LIST because ye gods even my breath the morning after the night before isn't this stale.

Scum team is in Onion, Cheeky and Eden. Potentially for LGW and Imaginality in there.

This is a snap solve, no reasoning will be given.
Tell me why I'm wrong.

Eden's not a bad vote. Cheeky seems a little forced to put in there; I don't love the naked votes but given her upcoming VLA I'd hesitate to echo you there. Onion, maybe, but apparently this is one of those gimmick accounts who's just gonna live in null for me until something mechanical happens. (I have not watched their videos btw so if there's sekrit content in there maybe somebody can be a boss and share.)

It's too early for associatives probably but as you pointed out, this game is slower than a squashed snake so fook it, let's go bowling and throw out some hot takes. If LGW is scum ZeFiend could be a partner. If Eden is scum, UnOwen could be a partner.

I was gonna ask for some reasons but HAW you said you wouldn't give them. I'm leaning towny on you so I'll let it slide for now, I think you're legit just trying to keep the game moving.

[Pavowski]

Oh, is Cheeky back?

[Pavowski]

What about adding Cheeky to the solve seems forced?

Kinda moot since she seems to be back now, but at the time, I didn't think there was enough content there to sort her. Since she's given some content, though, I would no longer say the same.

[Pavowski]

ok I hate these, but SNAP LIST because ye gods even my breath the morning after the night before isn't this stale.

Scum team is in Onion, Cheeky and Eden. Potentially for LGW and Imaginality in there.

This is a snap solve, no reasoning will be given.
Tell me why I'm wrong.

Bet

[Pavowski]

The HELL. Why did that get quoted? I hate phone posting.

Yeah, LGW. Let's do this thing.

[Pavowski]

This is a weird thought process. The perspective that flea forced a solve including an absent player is sound but then to say its moot because I'm back doesn't make any sense because the solve was proposed while I was away not after I started posting. So it still stands that flea generated a forced solve including slots that could be considered LHF. What's your take on flea intent behind that?

Yeah, maybe I phrased that clumsily. I think putting you in the scum team was premature, whereas there are fair enough reasons (thin, but so's the thread generally) for Eden and maybe even Onion. But I could also put it down to Flea trying to start some conversations. Flea is consistent in that regard.

[Pavowski]

The HELL. Why did that get quoted? I hate phone posting.

Yeah, LGW. Let's do this thing.

What do you think of Flea? I think Flea is dancing around in the aether, and it kinda bothers me that Flea is doing that.

I think at worst Flea is pot-stirring. Do you think there's scum motivation behind their posts?

[Pavowski]

I'm not a fan of how Flea is doing that, but that's a style issue I think.

Now do ZeFiend.

[Pavowski]

Zefeind hasn't done anything but that one strat post really. I could lim there. I didn't realize how little he had done until I just looked at his ISO. And a blind vote on Cheap Trick. That's it. Could be scum, really. What do you think?

Could be your low-flying scummo type trying to avoid notice. I'm certainly null at best on him.

[Pavowski]

LGW your question dodging continues to disappoint me.

I feel so bad about that. What question(s) am I dodging?

I see, you're asking what my thinking was when I voted you. Someone covered that. It was a weird thing to ask. If you would've asked why did I vote you, that would've been one thing, but what was my thinking when I voted you is an approach I can't grok. I think I may have been thinking of butterflies or cornbread at the time.

*blinks in wtf*

[Pavowski]

But everyone seems to respect them for being a good player so I am wary of my own surface-level read.

I have never been accused of being "respected" or a "good player", so pardon me while I climb right into your pocket

[Pavowski]

So last time this was played,

2 mafia goons.
Faction abilities were KILL and BLOCK or PROTECT

This was my understanding from reading the setup link, but I guess I can see how somebody would be confused about what the mafia can and can't do here. Calling a misunderstanding a "slip" could be a mistake, though. Mafia can misread the setup too.

[Pavowski]

But everyone seems to respect them for being a good player so I am wary of my own surface-level read.

I have never been accused of being "respected" or a "good player", so pardon me while I climb right into your pocket

I bite my thumb at thee.

Quarrel, sir?!

Hmm do you know me from Shakespeare?

I don't do alt-hunting but maybe you'll clue me in after the game

[Pavowski]

Well I was planning to make a post or two but I need the night off, I will check back in the morning.

[Pavowski]

I didn't.

I don't buy that this is a consistent position. Post 53 you dismissed the slip but now it's meaningful enough that you think one of them is scum?

UNVOTE: Little Green Wheels
VOTE: CheekyTeeky

Ftr I no longer think one of them is scum seeing as I also misunderstood the set up.

Welcome to Micro 1038, where nobody understands the setup!

[Pavowski]

Whoever said they feel like they can't interact meaningfully with the game. I agree with them.

I was hoping for more interaction on my strategy post. Not gonna lie, I was kinda excited for people to say "go for it." But I guess that shows I'm a bad player since it was universally agreed to be bad.

I'm having a hard time gleaning reads from this game. I don't understand the LGW thing at all. And I voted Imaginality to stir something up, but nothing really changed. So I just feel like a spectator this game.

I will say that I have a town-lean read on Flea. Being the first to come out with a snap post of hot takes seems townish to me. Even though I have no idea if I agree with their assessment or not.

I hate Onion's shtick and if I were really out of ideas at the end of the day I would lim there just to not have to deal with a self-imposed restriction.

I like Pav's activity, it feels pretty genuine so slight town-read for that. But everyone seems to respect them for being a good player so I am wary of my own surface-level read.

If someone wants to make a succinct case and ask me direct questions I'm willing to engage but I feel trapped on the periphery right now.

/pity party over.

Was your strat post universally agreed to be bad? I don't think it was, I think it just focuses on maths too much in a game that is not really about math. (Incidentally I don't love focus on mech talk either.) But since you seem to be trying to engage, what's up with the imaginality vote? Was it just to spark something or do you actually find them scummy?

Do you think policy-limming onion is something we should consider today?

[Pavowski]

Imaginality was your sus on LGW entirely related to the slip?

[Pavowski]

And hi T3, love a good alt slip

[Pavowski]

And hi T3, love a good alt slip

Are you gonna like stick to the Onion thing or...?

[Pavowski]

Since today is slow (Happy New Year! May your hangovers be brief and mild) and since nobody else has mentioned it, I'll mention this because it pinged my radar.

I think there's one scum in these two players so that rules out TvT fmpov.

Right but why do you think this? I get thinking LGW could be scum independently but I'm not understanding what about their interaction means one is likely to be scum.

It has nothing to do with them interacting and everything to do with the "slip" either LGW did slip or imaginality is pushing it as a slip because they know that role does exist as they are scum. It's moonlogic but that's how I roll ^.^

If others see it this way I'm happy to unvote LGW and be the hammer vote (in case LGW is supersaint).

Imaginality seemed to really want the "slip" to mean something before deciding that it didn't. In the meantime there was this post that screams LAMIST to me.

[Pavowski]

Time to wake up, people

VOTE: Imaginality

[Pavowski]

*yawns*

*looks around*

*falls asleep*

[Pavowski]

A good tactic might be to claim who everyone would shoot tonight that way we keep our roles hidden while giving ourselves info after each night.

My target is zefiend.

I like this. You took my target, though. I'll aim at the produce section

pav I will TL but I feel I've been pocketed a bit

Funny, I have had the same feeling about you

[Pavowski]

Thinking more about the question CheekyTeeky put out there

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

Because getting us to declare targets helps scum most as they know who to doc/roleblock

Does announcing targets really help scum? I figured it the way Teeky said it -- scum's most likely play is to doc whichever of them takes the NK on the chance they hit a bomb. I'm not gonna do the maths on it but doc'ing the scum who takes the shot (on the chance they shoot a bomb) seems like a much more high-percentage play than trying to RB somebody claiming a shot, when that somebody might or might not be a vig, AND might or might not shoot blanks.

What it does do is give us more reads (over and above your vote -- see Flea's 255) and, god forbid in this morass of a game, generate some discussion and possibly some information down the road (see Teeky's 260)

[Pavowski]

Cheeky just softed SS

Kinda defeats the point of softing to come out and say it, but at least we know you're paying attention

I do agree with you on the others though. Eden and onion have both been prodging and not playing for several days, which may or may not be scummy but it's certainly not helping.

[Pavowski]

We have 4 hours. I go to work in 2. There are 2 people at e-1 by my count.

I think imaginality is the better lim here, but if nobody pulls the trigger, I will switch to zefiend.

[Pavowski]

Well, don't keep us in suspense. Any parting thoughts imag?

[Pavowski]

Can we like, not slow play things so much today? That would be great.

Zefiend is not a bad place to look today but I also want to see more from Eden and Onion in this dayphase.

[Pavowski]

FOS: Zefiend

Care to elaborate Eden? You think scum!Zefiend targets Flea overnight?

[Pavowski]

Votecount 1.3

Little Green Wheels (4) - imaginality, CheekyTeeky, Eden'sFlame, UNOwen
UNOwen (2) - Flea the Magician, Pavowski
Pavowski (1) - The Onion

Not voting (2) - zefiend, Little Green Wheels

(expired on 2022-01-04 08:28:00) remain until day end

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority.

CheekyTeeky is V/LA until New Year's Day.

I don't know that my wagon was all town, but it's weird no one hammered.

I would've considered anybody hammering your wagon at that point a scumclaim. I agree, though, your wagon was probably not all town.

[Pavowski]

I'm gonna re-read the whole game since it's not long, and we can definitely use the Day for discussion, but everybody should know

We are VOTE: No Lynch today.

It's 4v2 which is MYLO.

Scum have to avoid hitting a bomb to progress the game. Vigs should all NK, obviously.

If scum NK, then we continue NL and Town wins by deadlock.

If scum miss a bomb then we're in LYLO, which is the only other eventuality besides an instant Town loss.

This post is all over the place.

1 - you seem to assume we have more bombs, but we may not have any more bombs
2 - scum NK, assuming no bomb shot, puts us in elo yes but
2.1 - you want vigs to fire, the possible outcomes of which you don't discuss. They could hit scum (good!) Or they could hit town (bad!) Or they could hit a bomb (super bad!)

No Lim is on the table in 4v2, yes, but it shouldn't be a foregone conclusion.

(Also, dude, the L-word is not the preferred nomenclature anymore. Lim or elimination, please.)

[Pavowski]

NK generally stands for night kill. No-kill, being rarer, needs to be spelled out.

But that reveals another weirdity in your analysis if no-kill is what you meant.

Why would scum not kill? As we discussed d1, they can (and probably did) doc whoever took the night kill to nullify the risk of hitting a bomb. We should assume they will continue to do this. There are only rare situations where not killing is a smart play for scum and I am not sure it could ever be the case in this setup.

Meanwhile your shift from "not knowing how to engage with this game" yesterday to trying to drive the proceedings today is ... just weird

[Pavowski]

Screw it I'll just stop talking for a while.

Please don't stop talking, but reading players will be more helpful for those trying to sort you than your reading the setup.

You keep introducing mech talk and it derails us from actually finding scum

@SirCakez

- is this correct:

The setup isn't that mafia get either a factional roleblock OR doc, it's that they get a factional roleblock AND doc but can only choose to use one each night.

?

Yes this is correct

So that's settled

[Pavowski]

Right now I think scum is in [Onion, Eden, Zefiend] with an outside shot at Teeky

Onion please post a vote or something I can actually read

Eden, I still want to hear your thoughts on Zefiend

LGW, of the lurkers who's scummiest?

Teeky no questions, you've actually voiced a solve (and you apparently don't do interrogations anyway?)

[Pavowski]

Don't even know what to call it at this point, but I'd like his people reads more than his mech talk

[Pavowski]

Pav = town
Zefiend= prob town
Eden= town


Of Cheeky/LGW/ Onion I like cheeky the worst tbh
VOTE: CheekyTeeky

Bold of you to put yourself in your own readslist

[Pavowski]

Pav = town
Zefiend= prob town
Eden= town


Of Cheeky/LGW/ Onion I like cheeky the worst tbh
VOTE: CheekyTeeky

You were FOSing Zefiend at start of day but he's probtown now. What changed?

[Pavowski]

LHF means "low hanging fruit", or somebody who, for whatever reason, is easy/obvious to vote and eliminate

[Pavowski]

I so badly want to hammer this, I think this is scum and Onion or Teeky is bussing and didn't think it'd get to a lim state overnight

[Pavowski]

Yeah I'm not waiting around, this is scum and the pace of this game is killing me to begin with VOTE: Eden

[Pavowski]

I expected a lot more chaos and the pace of the game got the better of me. Feels like if I'd been patient scum probably wins given the makeup of the town roles. Ah, well. Good game regardless