Micro 1044: A Normal Blitz V - Game Over

[Jacket]

Actually

VOTE: Dorsey

Not impressed with their ISO, read on Shiki seems shallow and as Vanderscamp pointed out oddly rigid, and if I take 187 seriously I have to conclude they are not currently voting their top scumread. Particularly note their read on Vander: "I've only seen them protect Shiki and OMGUS me," followed by their read on Shiki: "I don't agree with everything the slot says, but I'm okay with believing for now that a slot wouldn't be so effusive if they didn't believe what they were saying." This former read looks like it's arguing for a Shiki-Vander team but the latter looks like they don't even believe that? This readlist does not show the sort of thought I expect from someone who actually means what they are saying.

Read some of their games and thought they were pretty frequently low hanging fruit. Kind of seems to have their own way of doing things that most people don't get. I had thought their vote on shiki showed some scumhunting intent. But looking back over them their treatment of her seems a little unfair.

[Jacket]

I want to say shiki is town.

I don't even really believe in my Jacket vote any more so much as I just don't really have any scumreads rn so have no reason to move it. Someone sell me on something.

I think umlaut's read on Datisi is kind of bad.

What's bad about it?

I just think the reasoning isn't good. The way his read went could easily be trying to take a "nuanced" position as scum but ultimately not having a better place for his vote. Not necessarily scumreading him, just don't townread that.

I don't actually know what it means to me though. Could be scum making a bad townread. But I still kinda think you're town.

[Jacket]

VOTE: Cape90

Unimpressed on a reread.

[Jacket]

Vanderscamp got better later on. Had initially felt like he was scum gearing up to push me but his posts about other stuff are all right.

[Cape90]

Dorsey, you're doubling down here on suspecting shiki for not voting.

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

Do you think shiki is lying about this?:

and no of course not but i also do not think it was necessary for me to rvs vote ?

sometimes i rvs, i often do not, and otherwise i vote when i wish for the person i am voting to be eliminated,

It's pretty clear that shiki's vote had a purpose and was not just rvs, just saying

[Jacket]

Don't townread Datisi on a read of him. Not going to vote day 1 because he's actually active, but eh.

I still think Umlaut is town.

Will see how I feel later.

[Vanderscamp]

Vanderscamp got better later on. Had initially felt like he was scum gearing up to push me but his posts about other stuff are all right.

Yeah, I was gearing up to push on you, but I changed my mind.

[Vanderscamp]

Dorsey, you're doubling down here on suspecting shiki for not voting.

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

Do you think shiki is lying about this?:

and no of course not but i also do not think it was necessary for me to rvs vote ?

sometimes i rvs, i often do not, and otherwise i vote when i wish for the person i am voting to be eliminated,

It's pretty clear that shiki's vote had a purpose and was not just rvs, just saying

I think you might be misunderstanding me:

Dorsey's case against Shiki was this:

VOTE: shiki who do you think is scum and y didn't u vote like everyone else

Shiki explains why she didn't meta vote and my reason for disliking Dorsey was his lack of reevaluation.

Additionally, this:

it's suspicious. ur asking others to commit but not committing urself. do u feel every vote placed to this point has been confident?

was a very weird post because Shiki wasn't asking other people to commit to anything.

[Cape90]

I kinda thought they just looked like mafia trying to look busy, but a little later, I am warming up to them, especially with their latest post in 65 and I kinda vibe a bit with the vanderscamp read

hmm

Alright so about your suspicion on me, let us start here, what are you not following here in terms of logic?

I will admit that maybe my read on 65 was a bit shallow, I don't think I really have seen mafia make a post about finding 1 more town for a winning POE. I feel like that would just close off options if the supposed winning POE is wrong. i guess in other words I tend to see mafia try to keep their options more open

it's like,

jacket says 'this the scummiest rvs!'

you disagree with this, but as you've clarified when questioned, this is because you think any reads based on rvs are questionable and that you thought jacket maybe was just trying to look busy, right

but if all reads based on rvs are questionable, and you didn't find any of the other posts scummier than the one pointed out just that you found it scummy for any of them to be pointed out, it's like ...

but then why would this be more likely mafia trying to look busy than town moving the game

? and what would have been a towny thing for anyone to be doing? continuing to rvs indefinitely?

but sure your post also moving the game so it's like on that level i can see why maybe towny but not why scummy from jacket,

but then jacket is doing coalition thing, and saying, well i have no reason to move game as mafia

and! the awareness of this i would think would make your busy work hypothesis stronger

as jacket was certainly doing things and saying 'i want to have conversations/produce content' but not really taking actions towards this goal but rather the building coalition goal

which was both not encouraging me/bugspray to have a conversation/produce content right, jacket was not really reaching out to us to get a read on us, and was also townreading players for very little without engaging them further just issuing a townread right

so it seems weird to me that you viewed this and thought, ah, that's towny now

and timing of it felt in line with potential mafia reasoning to me as i explained to umlaut

I feel like Jacket I felt like ended the rvs too early and got serious too quickly, but then just decided that I agreed with the bolded that it was probably just town trying to move the game forward. This is where the "forced progression" comes from. I am not suggesting rvsing indefinitely.

"...but sure your post also moving the game so it's like on that level i can see why maybe towny but not why scummy from jacket,

but then jacket is doing coalition thing, and saying, well i have no reason to move game as mafia

and! the awareness of this i would think would make your busy work hypothesis stronger..."

I would argue that it would make the argument weaker as I felt like Looker was closing down walls with other options in the game, and while I don't find this exactly a good way to play the game, I find it more to probably come from town.

However, this is all before we reach where we are now with 202 with Jacket changing their read on me, which gives out a whole new set of pros and cons like his coalition strategy not being as secure of a strategy as one thinks and this can be either town just simply reevaluating a read they had early in the game because they find Vanders townier or whatever, or this is mafia who wants to create opportunities to try to mis-elim me based on threadstate and the direction of most of the thread null/scumreading me minus Umlaut, who is in this odd space where I believe that they could be mafia and I have a feeling they could just be knowing that I am town and trying to get on my good side but I kinda get the feeling they might be town too? (If I don't expand on this remind me too)

[Cape90]

Dorsey, you're doubling down here on suspecting shiki for not voting.

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

Do you think shiki is lying about this?:

and no of course not but i also do not think it was necessary for me to rvs vote ?

sometimes i rvs, i often do not, and otherwise i vote when i wish for the person i am voting to be eliminated,

It's pretty clear that shiki's vote had a purpose and was not just rvs, just saying

I think you might be misunderstanding me:

Dorsey's case against Shiki was this:

VOTE: shiki who do you think is scum and y didn't u vote like everyone else

Shiki explains why she didn't meta vote and my reason for disliking Dorsey was his lack of reevaluation.

Additionally, this:

it's suspicious. ur asking others to commit but not committing urself. do u feel every vote placed to this point has been confident?

was a very weird post because Shiki wasn't asking other people to commit to anything.

i forgot the context that Dorsey was voting shiki there. Makes sense and I think it's a decent/valid thought

UNVOTE: Vanderscamp

I think you could be town tbh

[Cape90]

I don't have strong opinions on Dorsey but

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

Sorry, that really didn't progress this thread at all.

Both of these strike me as towny with one another, moreso on the ladder quote here

How are they towny?...

i think being concerned about progressing the threadstate is a bit of an odd thought and obviously something the mafia don't actually care about. I guess thinking about it more, what catches me off gaurd is Dorsey then proceeding to not advance the threadstate until 72, like they literally posted nothing until that time which I would expect if Dorsey was concerned about advancing the threadstate, they would make more of an active effort like, right after they said 29. The thread was already

being

advanced by the time Dorsey chimed in with a game progressing post.

[Cape90]

I kinda thought they just looked like mafia trying to look busy, but a little later, I am warming up to them, especially with their latest post in 65 and I kinda vibe a bit with the vanderscamp read

hmm

Alright so about your suspicion on me, let us start here, what are you not following here in terms of logic?

I will admit that maybe my read on 65 was a bit shallow, I don't think I really have seen mafia make a post about finding 1 more town for a winning POE. I feel like that would just close off options if the supposed winning POE is wrong. i guess in other words I tend to see mafia try to keep their options more open

it's like,

jacket says 'this the scummiest rvs!'

you disagree with this, but as you've clarified when questioned, this is because you think any reads based on rvs are questionable and that you thought jacket maybe was just trying to look busy, right

but if all reads based on rvs are questionable, and you didn't find any of the other posts scummier than the one pointed out just that you found it scummy for any of them to be pointed out, it's like ...

but then why would this be more likely mafia trying to look busy than town moving the game

? and what would have been a towny thing for anyone to be doing? continuing to rvs indefinitely?

but sure your post also moving the game so it's like on that level i can see why maybe towny but not why scummy from jacket,

but then jacket is doing coalition thing, and saying, well i have no reason to move game as mafia

and! the awareness of this i would think would make your busy work hypothesis stronger

as jacket was certainly doing things and saying 'i want to have conversations/produce content' but not really taking actions towards this goal but rather the building coalition goal

which was both not encouraging me/bugspray to have a conversation/produce content right, jacket was not really reaching out to us to get a read on us, and was also townreading players for very little without engaging them further just issuing a townread right

so it seems weird to me that you viewed this and thought, ah, that's towny now

and timing of it felt in line with potential mafia reasoning to me as i explained to umlaut

I feel like Jacket I felt like ended the rvs too early and got serious too quickly, but then just decided that I agreed with the bolded that it was probably just town trying to move the game forward. This is where the "forced progression" comes from. I am not suggesting rvsing indefinitely.

"...but sure your post also moving the game so it's like on that level i can see why maybe towny but not why scummy from jacket,

but then jacket is doing coalition thing, and saying, well i have no reason to move game as mafia

and! the awareness of this i would think would make your busy work hypothesis stronger..."

I would argue that it would make the argument weaker as I felt like Looker was closing down walls with other options in the game, and while I don't find this exactly a good way to play the game, I find it more to probably come from town.

However, this is all before we reach where we are now with 202 with Jacket changing their read on me, which gives out a whole new set of pros and cons like his coalition strategy not being as secure of a strategy as one thinks and this can be either town just simply reevaluating a read they had early in the game because they find Vanders townier or whatever, or this is mafia who wants to create opportunities to try to mis-elim me based on threadstate and the direction of most of the thread null/scumreading me minus Umlaut, who is in this odd space where I believe that they could be mafia and I have a feeling they could just be knowing that I am town and trying to get on my good side but I kinda get the feeling they might be town too? (If I don't expand on this remind me too)

On this topic, in regards to the whole Jacket coalition thing, just noticed 195 and it seems a bit unsure of itself if we are really going with the coalition thing

[Cape90]

In regards to Dorsey

if I take 187 seriously I have to conclude they are not currently voting their top scumread.

I agree with this, it feels odd they are still on shiki after having

that

read on em

[Vanderscamp]

I don't have strong opinions on Dorsey but

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

Sorry, that really didn't progress this thread at all.

Both of these strike me as towny with one another, moreso on the ladder quote here

How are they towny?...

i think being concerned about progressing the threadstate is a bit of an odd thought and obviously something the mafia don't actually care about. I guess thinking about it more, what catches me off gaurd is Dorsey then proceeding to not advance the threadstate until 72, like they literally posted nothing until that time which I would expect if Dorsey was concerned about advancing the threadstate, they would make more of an active effort like, right after they said 29. The thread was already

being

advanced by the time Dorsey chimed in with a game progressing post.

This is reasonable.

[bugspray]

one liners complaining that someone doesn't contribute to gamestate is too eas to fake to be worth townreading over. i think as scum townreading someone for doing something that is towny on a shallow level is a good way to accumulate trust because they are going to think wow, this player is reading me correctly

[Cape90]

VOTE: bugspray

so that's all you got to say?

[Dorsey]

Actually

VOTE: Dorsey

Not impressed with their ISO, read on Shiki seems shallow and as Vanderscamp pointed out oddly rigid, and if I take 187 seriously I have to conclude they are not currently voting their top scumread. Particularly note their read on Vander: "I've only seen them protect Shiki and OMGUS me," followed by their read on Shiki: "I don't agree with everything the slot says, but I'm okay with believing for now that a slot wouldn't be so effusive if they didn't believe what they were saying." This former read looks like it's arguing for a Shiki-Vander team but the latter looks like they don't even believe that? This readlist does not show the sort of thought I expect from someone who actually means what they are saying.

Your concern is that I didn't move to someone else fast enough?

I don't have strong opinions on Dorsey but

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

Sorry, that really didn't progress this thread at all.

Both of these strike me as towny with one another, moreso on the ladder quote here

How are they towny?...

i think being concerned about progressing the threadstate is a bit of an odd thought and obviously something the mafia don't actually care about. I guess thinking about it more, what catches me off gaurd is Dorsey then proceeding to not advance the threadstate until 72, like they literally posted nothing until that time which I would expect if Dorsey was concerned about advancing the threadstate, they would make more of an active effort like, right after they said 29. The thread was already

being

advanced by the time Dorsey chimed in with a game progressing post.

I actually think the "advanced" part is subjective. Post 195 resonates with me.

It's day 1, everything is just kind of a gut feeling that everyone is stretching to put into words.

[Dorsey]

And I don't know how you're supposed to establish patterns or find inconsistencies if you don't press every player. I figured it would be different if they were close to being eliminated.

[Dorsey]

Umlaut, are you more impressed with bugspray's iso?

VOTE: bugspray

[Datisi]

bugspray's latest post is very underwhelming and i'd be lying if i said i townread it, but if i recall correctly, scum!bugs is generally more... tryhardy? or at least active, i remember them posting constantly in the first blitz. could be that they're busy or don't feel like playing or smt, which would be nai, but eh.

199 is giving me the same "umlaut is bs'ing" vibes as some of his previous posts and idk what to make of it. like, i wanted to think umlaut is townie because seeing me enter the game in a not-really-townread slot > drop a (to an outsider) nonsense townread on me > exit feels like a weird progression for scum!him, but idk if it outweighs my uneasiness of him otherwise.

also, still not scumreading dorsey. feel like there would be more... consistency? in their readslist as scum. idk, still getting loltown vibes.

VOTE: Cape90

Unimpressed on a reread.

Don't townread Datisi on a read of him. Not going to vote day 1 because he's actually active, but eh.

what's the difference between these two reads / why did you vote cape but not me? i don't think it'd be accurate to say that cape is not active.

[Datisi]

actually, the fact that bugs didn't acknowledge my presence in this game in any way is concerning...

[Datisi]

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2022-02-08 01:00:00).

16 hours, friends

VOTE: umlaut

i notice i'm alone on vanders so might as well vote the person i want to vote. we should start consolidating though, i don't *love* the bugs wagon but my standards will be getting lower

also i will not be around for the last 6-8 hours of the deadline due to having to do the bullshit activity called sleeping, so i'd be really grateful if we could get a move on before then

[Jacket]

what's the difference between these two reads / why did you vote cape but not me? i don't think it'd be accurate to say that cape is not active.

You're nullish but replaced in and have said enough that I don't feel like voting you day 1. Cape has been here since the start but hadn't really impressed.

[Jacket]

Bugspray feels like a coinflip at this point.

[Umlaut]

A couple people saying my point(s) against Dorsey is/are good, which is nice, but a much cooler way to show agreement would be voting for them