Mini 699: Insane Asylum Mafia: Game Over

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: LlamaFluff

for being unable to resist a forbiddanlight-modded game with both farside22 and me in it. Yeah, I have the queue on watch.

[StrangerCoug]

unvote
vote StrangerCoug

for being strange(r) enough to watch the queue

xD

But now that I think of it, I'm in the mini normal mod queue, but I'm not eligible to mod a mini theme yet (though I have one ready), so why am I watching that queue?

Unvote: LlamaFluff
Vote: The mini theme queue

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not against the miller role, but I am against claiming it or any other role outright. All it does is make the Mafia's job easier.

Death miller is a very easy role to fake, so we need to watch populartajo very carefully. He has not done enough in this game to make me suspect him, and in addition, I don't know why scum would want to fakeclaim early Day 1. (I fakeclaimed first thing Day 4 once, but that was because I was already suspicious.)

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not against the miller role, but I am against claiming it or any other role outright. All it does is make the Mafia's job easier.

No, it doesn't, SC.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7461

Where in that thread does it say otherwise? I can't find it.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, Im intrigued by this post. I dont think that our flavors should fit because you're saying that you're only a miller. But its interesting how there is not flavour in your role. This could get problematic but I think everybody else has flavour in their roles, right?

I don't see any flavor in my role either. I may or may not be vanilla (even though the vanilla townie role PM lacks flavor), but you can't incriminate someone simply because they claimed there is no flavor in their role.

Unvote: The mini theme queue
Vote: populartajo

[StrangerCoug]

FOS: SC.

That last post is a big misinterpretation of what is happening here.

Didn't you yourself ask about the lack of flavor in Juls's role? I don't understand the accusation, especially given your saying this in the post I quoted:

We can start by the flavour to know if he's lying. Everybody has flavor in their roles, right?

You don't believe Juls is scum according to earlier that post despite having the same role as you, yet you are asking if we can use flavor to prove he's lying? This is something I don't understand either.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry.

[StrangerCoug]

Now I know what the mod meant when the mod said to sign up for the game at our own risk. Never, anywhere that I have played Mafia, in real life or in cyberspace, have I seen a three-way counterclaim.

Unvote: populartajo

so my brain doesn't explode.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: The wireless adapter on my computer is acting funny at the moment, so if I go too long without a post, that's why. I do have access to other computers, however, so I won't consider myself V/LA.

[StrangerCoug]

The gender stuff is funny though, I tend to get called she a lot.

My first avatar got me mistaken for a female on occasion as well, so you're not alone.

Its a dude lion... people really need to watch more old disney movies.

If I'm not mistaken, that avatar of yours from The Lion King II. I can't remember his name, but I think it starts with a K.

I'm not going to hold Juls being new to the game against her per se, and I'm not going to question her not being used to millers (this is my first game with a miller too).

[StrangerCoug]

I don't think all three claimed millers are town, but I don't think they're all scum either. I think it's a given that everybody (pro-town, that is) hates WIFOM, and I don't know what to do about the miller situation. At all.

[StrangerCoug]

We need to actually scumhunt though, not try and debate what miller is the best to lynch, or what flavor we should be lynching. The miller claim to me is one that should more or less be ignored, and treated more like a vanilla town claim then anything else. If they are scummy, you lynch them, if they act townish, you dont. If a different role then cop has proof they are town, you lynch them.

I agree with this part of your post. I really don't want to sort through this miller mess, and I think it's in our best interests to leave them alone for the time being. The game does not end when all the millers die unless they're all telling the truth yet we lynch them all anyway (assuming the standard three Mafia in a mini).

I'm getting pro-town vibes from you and Mirth right now.

[StrangerCoug]

As long as "leave them alone" != free ride
then we can temp. set the miller issue aside.

That's why I said "for the time being". We have too little information to work their alignments out.

[StrangerCoug]

coug; you get an fos for sucking up

Could you explain please?

[StrangerCoug]

Nothing you posted so far has been anti-town, so I don't understand why you are FoS'ing me for sucking up based solely on that post. I'm still trying to scumhunt, and with you two, the millers, and myself out of the way, that's six people I'm looking at unless one of you five do something that sets me off.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote Vote:Mirth

Something feels different about her.

Can you explain what seems off?

[StrangerCoug]

SC: Saying I have protown vibes for players is sucking up to a player and I see scum suck up to players they know are town to look town.

I never said that; in fact, I hadn't even addressed you before now. I said that I wanted to leave the millers alone and that I believe LlamaFluff and Mirth to be town at this moment. I know what I am, which leaves six people including you. I understand Mirth's "suck-up" concern, but you just voted me based on incorrect information.

Vote: farside22

for strawmanning.

[StrangerCoug]

You said that I said you were giving me protown vibes; I made no such statement about you.

[StrangerCoug]

In that case, your using the first person singular in the same sentence for both of us without using quotation marks made your accusation ambiguous. Since you were the one speaking, I interpreted it as both uses referring to you. I am in no way denying the suck-up. All I did was ask for clarification about what Mirth meant by it, and she said that my statements were essentially clearing half the town including myself (but of course I know what I am).

Saying that one or two players is protown is actually a null tell in and of itself in my book, but one, that's not my argument, and two, that's why it must be looked at in context. However, I do want you to try reading your post before you submit it so others have no way of misinterpreting what you said.

Unvote: farside22

[StrangerCoug]

coug 156; nice omgus vote there.

I thought farside22 was voting me based on misinformation, hence the strawman accusation; in fact, I voted her based on a misinterpretation of her post, hence the retraction.

@SC - Why should we eliminate the miller claims from lynch contention entirely?

Not quite what I was getting at with the miller issue; I wanted to set the millers aside until we had enough information to work them out. Juls replacing out is noted, but I honestly don't think it's that relevant, and I don't know what to make of it anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

I also find Llamafluff to be scummy. Here are the reasons

- 2 random votes

Not scummy. End of discussion.

- his exchange with Juls, what's the difference between a pressure vote and a lynch vote, even?

A lynch vote is a vote made with the genuine belief that its recipient is scum. A pressure vote is not necessarily intended to put its recipient out of his or her misery, but is usually there to get information out of somebody. I've used the latter to try to get people to stop lurking.

[StrangerCoug]

I am sincerely sorry, this is my first normal game.

"Normal"? You do realize this is a

theme

game, right?

However, I am going to

Vote: Juls

because I find it odd that she asked for a replacement when people began to focus on her and ask her questions. I will even say that her last post seems like an Appeal for Emotion for whoever her replacement is. I am not moving this vote until someone can convince me to.

Juls is the center of my attention right now, and I do believe that she replaced out out of frustration. I'm not going to advocate for her towniness, but I have as little idea as to her alignment as I did when she claimed miller.

If anybody wants to meta her while I'm at school, getting a haircut, and voting on who the next president of the United States should be and see if she does the same thing, go ahead. I normally discourage using meta to try to determine alignment, but if she replaced out of just this game and not very many others (if any others at all), then I'm pretty sure it's a scumtell.

[StrangerCoug]

No, she replaced out of all her games. Then not to forget that this was her 5th game in which she played and to remember that all of them are still ongoing. There's no meta which is usable.

Exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks.

I don't know SC very well
but please do not "answer" for others at the drop of a bell.

Llama and the rest are perfectly capable of response.
You posting doesn't help, still nonchalance.

I was thinking the term "devil's advocate" when I make my response, but thought that wasn't the correct one. Anyway, I attacked the "two random votes" accusation because it is simply a null tell. I don't like it, but it's not the worst crime in the world and doing it doesn't make it scummier. I made two random votes myself—LlamaFluff and then the mini theme queue. Yes, I really did vote the mini theme queue.

Granted, it was probably a better move for me to let LlamaFluff answer, but since it was a question to which I knew the answer, I thought it was OK for me to respond. Even though I still lean town on him, I'm not trying to defend him.

[StrangerCoug]

Do you have any comments about the rest of Electra's case?
or did you just ignore the rest and focus on the random place?

I have no comment on Electra right now.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, Corvuus, here's what I think about #179 in isolation:

- 2 random votes

Again, not scummy.

- attacking Pentadragon for practically no reason (omg he has a random vote on a claimed miller! shocking)

That particular one for that particular stated reason I'm going to have to side with Electra. I do see the case on Pentadragon, however, especially in regards to the newbie card.

- attacking anyone who was skeptical about the miller claims

I remember LlamaFluff FoS'ing me for voting populartajo because his flip would not give us any information, but other than that all I remember about him talking to me about it is my stance on the millers, which is similar to his. They're not off limits, but until something comes up I'm laying off them.

Electra, prove that LlamaFluff has attacked

EVERYBODY

that's skeptical of the claims. I want to see links and quotes.

- misinterpreting my post as me wanting to lynch a claimed miller when I was just going through the possibilities

'
OK, I buy that.

- getting into a pointless discussion with corvuus about what flavor means - best way for scum to be active is for them to talk about nothing

I kind of see LlamaFluff's point in terms of flavor in that we shouldn't be lynching people based on subjectiveness.

- his exchange with Juls, what's the difference between a pressure vote and a lynch vote, even?

Both LlamaFluff and I have explained this, even if it should only have been the former.

[StrangerCoug]

SC: What is with defending Llama on issues that Electra brought up?

My concern was less about defending LlamaFluff and attacking Electra because I saw her reasoning as flawed.

[StrangerCoug]

Why initially such a short and hasty attack?
It seems like a unusual tack.

What do you expect me to do, go all-out on why Electra's case on LlamaFluff sucks? Those were my main points of concern, and all I'm worried about on Electra's part is what I've said so far on her.

[StrangerCoug]

Posting to avoid a prod. Nothing new to contribute.

[StrangerCoug]

Among you, LlamaFluff, and Mirth, right? Don't really have an opinion on it, though I'll try to see what I can get out of it...

[StrangerCoug]

Kinda sorta. If I have nothing new to add, I generally won't say anything, but if something catches my attention, I'll say so. I understand LlamaFluff and Mirth's concerns about farside22, though.

In terms of the LlamaFluff case, I seem to be to Electra as Mirth is to farside22 in that the first of us is accusing the second of a weak attack against him.

[StrangerCoug]

yay, a substance post from penta. im excited. i agree that strangercoug is being weird. you have left out his attempts to buddy up and his decision to exclude 6 people from his pool of scum candidates outright. which both still worry me.

I only set the millers aside because I didn't really know what to do with them and I wanted to lay off them until I did—they're still fair game. I've explained the buddying already.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote.

Didn't notice I had inherited a vote.

Next time, unvote the moment you replace in.

[StrangerCoug]

Yes, I do think its a good idea that everybody claim if they are millers or not. I dont want posterior "new miller" scenarios.

I am not a miller.

[StrangerCoug]

The back of my head is screaming that the mod would either tell every applicable player or nobody at all whether or not they are a miller, but I know forbiddanlight in general.

[StrangerCoug]

LlamaFluff has a good case on Pentadragon, and I need to reread the latter when I get home so I can see from myself. Hearsay doesn't work well when you're town.

Crazy is making me suspicious, though. He softclaimed a fourth miller, but has yet to elaborate on it. He has yet to say up front whether or not he is a miller. His #7 in isolation is setting off alarm bells as it reads to me as if he's using Mana_Ku to set Juls/ShadowGirl up to fall.

That, and he needs to be woken up.

Vote: Crazy

[StrangerCoug]

SC, where did crazy soft claim, i don't seem to recall any such thing. can you quote please.

2 claims means someone is likely lying.

3 (or 4, *cough*) claims means mod's a bastard.

[StrangerCoug]

As promised, reread of Pentadragon, complete with PBPA.

Post numbers are in isolation.

#0:

Random vote. OK, no hard feelings. We all do it.

#1:

Answers Mirth's question of whether #0 was random or semi-serious. I think the answer was obvious, and as such it kind of gives Mirth a bad mark. Not enough to warrant even an IGMEOY on Mirth, though, especially given my sense of humor doesn't always work either.

#2:

Questions whether populartajo's "not so randome vote" [sic] on the mod is a joke. Now, this alone isn't scummy, and I liked Pentadragon's #1, but #1 and #2 together seem off.

#3:

Unvotes populartajo to appease LlamaFluff. Doing just about anything solely out of appeasement is scummy.

#4:

Pentadragon's opinion of the miller role. I don't agree with it, but he has the right to hold it.

#5:

Proposes that populartajo might not actually be a death miller (just an otherwise truthful person that thinks so) and uses rule #3 to justify it. I know the kind of person the mod is, but that's a stretch.

#6:

Comments that the counterclaim is interesting, which it is.

#7:

Repost of #5.

#8:

Apologizes for #5 and #7 after Juls proposes that forbiddanlight might have just deleted the "claiming someone else is your scumbuddy will result in a modkill" rule that Tarhalindur had while keeping the rule numbering. I think Juls's explanation makes more sense.

#9:

Asks if Juls has any proof that she is female. It's fine to joke, but at this stage, if that's all you're posting, then you're posting fluff.

#10:

Confusion about the miller situation. I am too, so not anything I can nail him on here.

#11:

Agrees with LlamaFluff and me about the millers.

#12:

Says this is his first normal game, which it's not. Votes Juls for replacing out under pressure. At the time, I thought it made some sense, which is why I wanted somebody to meta Juls to see if it was a legitimate scumtell. I was told she replaced out of all of her games and her meta is thus useless, and looking at the post now, I think it's kind of extreme. It kind of helps my thinking that in Open 94 (

mod: game is complete

), I replaced PimHel who replaced farside22 who replaced out under pressure, and I picked up a town role from them. I wasn't in a pleasant position, but I managed to get out of it.

#13:

States that everything that can be said about him has been said about him and attributes the votes on him to not posting anything of use. I get a "yeah, whatever" feeling about this post, as if he doesn't care about the votes on him.

#14:

EBWOP to fix typos.

#15:

Clarifies that, when he said "normal game" in #12, he meant the first non-newbie game.

#16:

Says that #15 doesn't matter and is only there if someone wants to look at his previous games.

#17:

Says that he could be making something out of nothing but that Juls replacing out is one of the biggest scumtells we have. One, I beg to differ, as I've said before in this post. Two, the "something out of nothing" clause doesn't sound pro-town in context.

#18:

Asks why a miller shouldn't claim. OK, nothing wrong with it.

#19:

Says that he considers an overreaction to be scummy in most cases, but bets that somebody is going to prove him wrong. Explains the "one of the largest" phrasing. I'd consider this post to be protown weren't "I am going to bet that someone is going to prove me wrong" there.

#20:

Says it's unlikely that Juls is scum in her four other games.

#21:

Responds to Mirth's accusing him of pushing a null tell as a scumtell by quoting that the way she did so being odd and the "someone's going to prove me wrong" statement. I think it's clear by now that Pentadragon's trying to set Juls/ShadowGirl up to fall.

#22:

Has no thoughts one way or the other about ShadowGirl. How exactly do you have a strong scum read on one player and a null read on her replacement?

#23:

Says he'll catch up later.

#24:

Apologizes for taking so long.

#25:

Says that Juls/ShadowGirl and LlamaFluff are sticking out to him. The statement about the former doesn't fit well with #22, and I already said I think the case on the latter is crap.

#26:

Says he thinks he's wrong about his feelings and proceeds to pull up some of my posts. I'll respond to a couple of the points since I don't think I did:

Wouldn’t refusal to claim result in a Cop (assuming there is one) wasting an investigation. I would assume that any (sane) cop would try to get the miller lynched. By the next day there are two less pro-town players.

I can't make any sense out of this. You say that a miller not claiming wastes an investigation, but that any sane cop would want to get a miller lynched. For that to make an ounce of sense, the cop would have to investigate someone he or she

DOESN'T

know is a miller and then get a guilty result, thus leading the cop to believe that the miller is scum. So yeah. Welcome to craplogic land.

P.S. About the "don't claim your role outright" thing, I'm the kind of person that's against breaking the game in someone's favor. Call me paranoid.

Unless I myself am misunderstanding populartajo, this seems like a deliberate misinterpretation. It seems to me that pop was just stating that it was interesting that Jul’s private message had no flavor in it. Nowhere it that post did I get the feeling he was trying to use it to scum hunt.

However it seems to me that you yourself are trying to use your Private message to find scum. Maybe again I am misreading, but it appears to me that part of your reason for you vote on him in your fourth post was because of your role’s flavor.

I left this out in my post because I thought it was implied in what I did post (and the second sentence here is repeated eariler in it), but it explains my vote:

We can start by the flavour to know if he's lying. Everybody has flavor in their roles, right?

#27:

Response to Mirth's reasons as to why she thinks I'm scummy. No comment other than that he has his own input, flawed or not.

#28:

Votes me.

#29:

Revotes me because he forgot to unvote.

#30:

Says he doesn't believe he is a miller. OK...?

#31:

Acknowledges LlamaFluff's promise of a post about him.

#32:

Brings up the MafiaWiki article about the miller, specifically, the part where it says that the miller might not know he or she is such. I know the kind of person the mod is in general, but isn't that still stretching it?

#33:

Says that three millers aware they are they're millers and X millers that think they're not is improbable. Why are you bringing up theories you believe are unlikely?

#34:

Says that Crazy's softclaim from earlier is interesting.

#35:

Apologizes for being busy.

I find Pentadragon's Juls case pretty scummy from his saying over and over that he may end up being wrong about it. He's stretching things more than I find acceptable even for the kind of game this is, and his logic for some of his stuff makes no sense to me.

HoS: Pentadragon.

The only reason I'm not voting him yet is because I'm waiting on Crazy for this miller business.

[StrangerCoug]

If you say so Tajo. ;P

This doesn't rub me the right way for some reason.

[StrangerCoug]

"Friends from another game", populartajo? What's this about?

[StrangerCoug]

Then don't reference it, especially when the way you said it made it sound like you were buddying up to me. Now I know how Mirth and LlamaFluff felt.

[StrangerCoug]

I strongly disagree that pop is "essentially confirmed".

How exactly do you get a confirmed player on Day 1 in a day start again? Yeah, I'm in disagreement as well.

[StrangerCoug]

I strongly disagree that pop is "essentially confirmed".

How exactly do you get a confirmed player on Day 1 in a day start again? Yeah, I'm in disagreement as well.

You don't

I thought so.

[StrangerCoug]

If you are unsure why I needed to ask, then why did you respond? xD

[StrangerCoug]

It was more of a rhetorical question more than anything else, but if someone begs to differ from us on that matter...

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not voting him because he claimed miller, I am voting him because there is a possibility that he is scum,

Of course there is a possibility populartajo is scum. As long as no living player is confirmed, in purely mathematical terms the same possibility exists that e.g. Mirth, LlamaFluff, Corvuus, and even I are scum. Basically, saying "there is a possibility that he is scum" tells us nothing.

his claim was wishy washy in the first place,

Wasn't populartajo the first miller to claim such?

his lynch will free the town of the wifom his claimed role presents,

OK, I must admit that I kind of see how this works in theory, but a claim is a claim and it is very possible that it is truthful.

he will flip scum as I believe he is either scum or the death mason,

What do you mean "believe"? We all know this already.

and these things outweigh the possibility of wrongly lynching a townie.

I beg to differ. Your wishy-washiness accusation is crap, and nothing in the rest of your post proves populartajo's scumminess to any extent.

I don't see how we could find a more certain lynch than this today.

I don't know if this is more certain, but it's certainly better-founded:

Unvote: Crazy
Vote: SlySly

[StrangerCoug]

Watch SlySly commit

ad hominem

.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not sold on your towniness. Most of your case against populartajo focuses on his claim and ignores his actions.

[StrangerCoug]

His actions don't matter.

YES THEY DO.

*facepalm*

[StrangerCoug]

SC, I understand your faceplant, but his actions don't really matter. We have a legitimate reason to lynch him now. We are 18 pages in, I know that isn't too much and I am not trying to rush the day, but I have not seen a case presented yet that has better odds of lynching someone who will flip scum that what I have put forth.

This is exactly the problem I have with you advocating his lynch as if he's automatically scum. He will flip scum no matter what happens, which presents the problem of not getting information with his death. As I said, the resulting WIFOM will

theoretically

cease upon his death. I doubt this in practice.

That is why I haven't revealed the other things I have noticed yet. I think they are better left to discuss in day two.

If you're town, then my suggestion to you is to reveal them now.

[StrangerCoug]

Also, for the record, I have not claimed anything. Anyone saying that I have claimed, please tell me which role I claimed.

I personally didn't view your "Watch me flip town" comment as claiming any role, unnecessary as it was. I can see how it can be interpreted as a vanilla claim, but I would use more specific wording than just "town" if that were the case.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't like Mirth's pushiness against populartajo lately, but I understand her concerns at #491.

I still think SlySly advocating populartajo's lynch as if the latter's confirmed scum is very scummy. Yes, populartajo claims to be the death miller, but that doesn't confirm him either way let alone as scum. In addition, SlySly waited too long to give a decent response to his case on him and is withholding his opinions on other players as if they aren't valid until Day 2 when chances are they are valid right now.

Talk about tunnel vision.

[StrangerCoug]

Either that, Mirth, or I've only noticed it lately. I'm not oblivious to the populartajo case.

[StrangerCoug]

Lynching tajo guarantees that we lynch someone who will flip scum.

*facepalm* Damn you SlySly, what part of "Just because populartajo claimed death miller does not mean he's scum" don't you understand!?

[StrangerCoug]

*facepalm* Damn you SlySly, what part of "Just because populartajo claimed death miller does not mean he's scum" don't you understand!?

Maybe if you would get your head out of your hand, YOU would begin to understand what I have been saying. I never said that tajo was scum because he claimed death miller.

Yeah, but you voted him for otherwise crap reasons, you waited 3¾ days to present a decent case on him, and you still post like you want him policy lynched.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Believe it or not, I actually have that.

[StrangerCoug]

Heh heh heh xD

[StrangerCoug]

5. Because there is a chance that we will lynch actual scum, this is better than a mislynch.

Mathematically speaking, the odds of populartajo being scum are the same as the other 11 of us being scum. Nice try.

[StrangerCoug]

I understand that part. Now, for the last time, stop pushing a policy lynch and present a decent case against populartajo, preferably one unrelated to his claim.

Your opinions on other people are greatly appreciated as well.

[StrangerCoug]

"Lack thereof", Corvuus? Have I not been one of the main pushers against SlySly, or am I misinterpreting you?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not against the miller role, but I am against claiming it or any other role outright. All it does is make the Mafia's job easier.

Death miller is a very easy role to fake, so we need to watch populartajo very carefully.

It appears that earlier in the game you had an opinion that the death miller claim could be pro-scum and easy to fake. That is leaning in the direction of my reasoning without the vote attached.

That is still true.

...it is my stance on the millers, which is similar to his. They're not off limits, but until something comes up I'm laying off them.

In your opinion, since I know you have been watching him very carefully, has tajo become less or more scummy since you made these posts?

Less scummy.

I don't think all three claimed millers are town, but I don't think they're all scum either.

Which one(s) do you think are scum?

My stance on the millers has changed since that post. The scummiest of the three, ironically, is populartajo (both of you have hid behind your claims), but I do lean town on even him. He hasn't been pushing for a policy lynch like mad, unlike you.

I think it's a given that everybody (pro-town, that is) hates WIFOM, and I don't know what to do about the miller situation.

I have put forth a wifom killing, no fail, scum flipping scenario but we have been through that already.

I think we all know what you and I think about it by now xP

you waited 3¾ days to present a decent case on him, and you still post like you want him policy lynched.

When pushing a policy lynch not based on scumminess you tend to focus more on your point. What I pointed out later about Tajo's scumminess wasn't the case, that was just icing on an already otherwise good cake. My case was all about the policy, which I still believe and I understand that others don't agree, so be it. In comparison to other cases, I think Tajo has been scummy enough so far to justify being lynched today, whether you agree with the policy reason or not.

Why didn't you question Tajo about his vote/case on Stef/Me when that went on far longer than 3¾ days without its reasoning being addressed?

Given my recent pro-town leanings on him, I haven't really pursued anything in his direction lately. I might question a player I think is town why he or she is doing/thinking what he or she is, but that's to gain an understanding of what's going on in that player's mind.

[StrangerCoug]

I also agree that Pentadragon's been scummy, but I'd rather lynch SlySly over populartajo.

[StrangerCoug]

Too many people are lurking in this game for a deadline in three days

Yeah xP I'm getting impatient.

[StrangerCoug]

Too many people are lurking in this game for a deadline in three days

Yeah xP I'm getting impatient.

Well you could always do something to get the game moving even if the full cast isnt here right now. Here are a few options

1) Tell me why Sly is scummier then penta.

Because I think proposing a policy lynch and keeping to yourself are scummier than stretching cases and claiming to be wrong so you can easily backtrack. I'm happy with either, though. You've made your case against Pentadragon, my last attack on him was #371. Convince me that Pentadragon is scummier than SlySly and I'll consider switching.

2) Why using bad logic makes Sly scum.

SlySly argues that lynching populartajo will give us a certain scum flip. As both of us have tried to tell him, that doesn't work because of his death miller claim.

3) Your opinion on Tajo.

The case on him makes sense to me, but I agree with you that he's not the best lynch for today. I'll leave whether he should be anywhere near lynch or lose up for debate because I'm undecided at this point (it's probably not a bad idea, though).

[StrangerCoug]

Soooo corporate, wheres that post you promised me.

i just dont have any opinions that havnt been stated already. sorry if im not the most vocal of the bunch. id just rather post when i have more substance. then just look late like a parrot that came late to the party.

i hope you understand.

I'm not concerned about this. That's how I prefer playing too.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not going to claim. If you non-scumhunting fools feel the need to lynch a townie, do nothing (as I already have the most votes) or vote for me.

Rest assured, there is scum on my wagon. I also believe there is scum sitting back and enjoying the lynching of the townie. I'm sure you scummies do want to know my role, too bad, you ain't gettin it from me.

My role will be revealed if/when I am lynched and it is in the best interests of the town for my role to be revealed then by the mod as opposed to now by me.

Claim or die. You've kept us in the dark long enough.

[StrangerCoug]

unvote vote Populartajo

i wonder who writes better a haiku.

Bleh. I don't know why you're voting populartajo over something that has to do with a haiku when he clearly has been writing in couplets, and you give no other reasoning for your vote to boot.

FoS: corporate

[StrangerCoug]

Un-FoS: corporate

since he explained his vote away as a joke.

[StrangerCoug]

SlySly has chosen not to claim; therefore, he needs to die.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: Deadline extension

only because it's Thanksgiving tomorrow and some people may be away. Were it nowhere near a holiday, I would have voted against it.

[StrangerCoug]

I am town. If you are so convinced I am scum, hammer me. Otherwise, my vote is going back to tajo.

vote SlySly

Why the hell are you voting yourself?

[StrangerCoug]

especially considering you're now at L-1.

Would scum so bravely put themself at L-1? I think not.

One, this is WIFOM. Two, go read Open 98.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP so she knows:

Mod: Open 98 is finished.

[StrangerCoug]

Two, go read Open 98.

Please, summarize for me.

I'm not doing stuff for you, you lazy bum!

[StrangerCoug]

I still want to stay off populartajo. My main suspect other than him is Pentadragon for mostly the same reasons as previously, plus he happens to be doing quite nicely under the radar.

Let's yank one of my day 1 posts back up to remind everybody:

As promised, reread of Pentadragon, complete with PBPA.

Post numbers are in isolation.

#0:

Random vote. OK, no hard feelings. We all do it.

#1:

Answers Mirth's question of whether #0 was random or semi-serious. I think the answer was obvious, and as such it kind of gives Mirth a bad mark. Not enough to warrant even an IGMEOY on Mirth, though, especially given my sense of humor doesn't always work either.

#2:

Questions whether populartajo's "not so randome vote" [sic] on the mod is a joke. Now, this alone isn't scummy, and I liked Pentadragon's #1, but #1 and #2 together seem off.

#3:

Unvotes populartajo to appease LlamaFluff. Doing just about anything solely out of appeasement is scummy.

#4:

Pentadragon's opinion of the miller role. I don't agree with it, but he has the right to hold it.

#5:

Proposes that populartajo might not actually be a death miller (just an otherwise truthful person that thinks so) and uses rule #3 to justify it. I know the kind of person the mod is, but that's a stretch.

#6:

Comments that the counterclaim is interesting, which it is.

#7:

Repost of #5.

#8:

Apologizes for #5 and #7 after Juls proposes that forbiddanlight might have just deleted the "claiming someone else is your scumbuddy will result in a modkill" rule that Tarhalindur had while keeping the rule numbering. I think Juls's explanation makes more sense.

#9:

Asks if Juls has any proof that she is female. It's fine to joke, but at this stage, if that's all you're posting, then you're posting fluff.

#10:

Confusion about the miller situation. I am too, so not anything I can nail him on here.

#11:

Agrees with LlamaFluff and me about the millers.

#12:

Says this is his first normal game, which it's not. Votes Juls for replacing out under pressure. At the time, I thought it made some sense, which is why I wanted somebody to meta Juls to see if it was a legitimate scumtell. I was told she replaced out of all of her games and her meta is thus useless, and looking at the post now, I think it's kind of extreme. It kind of helps my thinking that in Open 94 (

mod: game is complete

), I replaced PimHel who replaced farside22 who replaced out under pressure, and I picked up a town role from them. I wasn't in a pleasant position, but I managed to get out of it.

#13:

States that everything that can be said about him has been said about him and attributes the votes on him to not posting anything of use. I get a "yeah, whatever" feeling about this post, as if he doesn't care about the votes on him.

#14:

EBWOP to fix typos.

#15:

Clarifies that, when he said "normal game" in #12, he meant the first non-newbie game.

#16:

Says that #15 doesn't matter and is only there if someone wants to look at his previous games.

#17:

Says that he could be making something out of nothing but that Juls replacing out is one of the biggest scumtells we have. One, I beg to differ, as I've said before in this post. Two, the "something out of nothing" clause doesn't sound pro-town in context.

#18:

Asks why a miller shouldn't claim. OK, nothing wrong with it.

#19:

Says that he considers an overreaction to be scummy in most cases, but bets that somebody is going to prove him wrong. Explains the "one of the largest" phrasing. I'd consider this post to be protown weren't "I am going to bet that someone is going to prove me wrong" there.

#20:

Says it's unlikely that Juls is scum in her four other games.

#21:

Responds to Mirth's accusing him of pushing a null tell as a scumtell by quoting that the way she did so being odd and the "someone's going to prove me wrong" statement. I think it's clear by now that Pentadragon's trying to set Juls/ShadowGirl up to fall.

#22:

Has no thoughts one way or the other about ShadowGirl. How exactly do you have a strong scum read on one player and a null read on her replacement?

#23:

Says he'll catch up later.

#24:

Apologizes for taking so long.

#25:

Says that Juls/ShadowGirl and LlamaFluff are sticking out to him. The statement about the former doesn't fit well with #22, and I already said I think the case on the latter is crap.

#26:

Says he thinks he's wrong about his feelings and proceeds to pull up some of my posts. I'll respond to a couple of the points since I don't think I did:

Wouldn’t refusal to claim result in a Cop (assuming there is one) wasting an investigation. I would assume that any (sane) cop would try to get the miller lynched. By the next day there are two less pro-town players.

I can't make any sense out of this. You say that a miller not claiming wastes an investigation, but that any sane cop would want to get a miller lynched. For that to make an ounce of sense, the cop would have to investigate someone he or she

DOESN'T

know is a miller and then get a guilty result, thus leading the cop to believe that the miller is scum. So yeah. Welcome to craplogic land.

P.S. About the "don't claim your role outright" thing, I'm the kind of person that's against breaking the game in someone's favor. Call me paranoid.

Unless I myself am misunderstanding populartajo, this seems like a deliberate misinterpretation. It seems to me that pop was just stating that it was interesting that Jul’s private message had no flavor in it. Nowhere it that post did I get the feeling he was trying to use it to scum hunt.

However it seems to me that you yourself are trying to use your Private message to find scum. Maybe again I am misreading, but it appears to me that part of your reason for you vote on him in your fourth post was because of your role’s flavor.

I left this out in my post because I thought it was implied in what I did post (and the second sentence here is repeated eariler in it), but it explains my vote:

We can start by the flavour to know if he's lying. Everybody has flavor in their roles, right?

#27:

Response to Mirth's reasons as to why she thinks I'm scummy. No comment other than that he has his own input, flawed or not.

#28:

Votes me.

#29:

Revotes me because he forgot to unvote.

#30:

Says he doesn't believe he is a miller. OK...?

#31:

Acknowledges LlamaFluff's promise of a post about him.

#32:

Brings up the MafiaWiki article about the miller, specifically, the part where it says that the miller might not know he or she is such. I know the kind of person the mod is in general, but isn't that still stretching it?

#33:

Says that three millers aware they are they're millers and X millers that think they're not is improbable. Why are you bringing up theories you believe are unlikely?

#34:

Says that Crazy's softclaim from earlier is interesting.

#35:

Apologizes for being busy.

I find Pentadragon's Juls case pretty scummy from his saying over and over that he may end up being wrong about it. He's stretching things more than I find acceptable even for the kind of game this is, and his logic for some of his stuff makes no sense to me.

HoS: Pentadragon.

The only reason I'm not voting him yet is because I'm waiting on Crazy for this miller business.

He's made 23 posts since then, a lot of it about the SlySly case initially before going after LlamaFluff. I can't attack Pentadragon for having the same opinion as me about SlySly, but his LlamaFluff case seems on the off side. It is not the fact that LlamaFluff, the only person advocating a Pentadragon lynch, is now dead that strikes me , but rather Pentadragon's #50 in isolation. Pentadragon says he has no opinions for LlamaFluff, but then proceeds to present the opinion that LlamaFluff is reaching the wrong conclusions with his accusations. This reads like a self-contradiction to me.

Vote: Pentadragon

[StrangerCoug]

OK, I'll let semantics play out here, but there's my case on your early Day 1 actions, too.

[StrangerCoug]

Happy Birthday forbiddanlight.

Well, so it is

Happy birthday, mod!

My own birthday is 25 days away. Yes, the day after Christmas.

[StrangerCoug]

First, I'm going to

vote:corporate

SC, 752, why do you feel you should stay off tajo? Also you say its not like Llama's death strikes you, yet you mention it. Why?

I still think populartajo is town and nothing he has done since late Day 1 has given me too many scum vibes.

LlamaFluff's death is brought up because he's the only person who wanted Pentadragon, who was my top suspect behind SlySly, lynched late Day 1. I'm trying to see if Pentadragon would have a motive to kill LlamaFluff given I don't like the former's defense of the latter's case, but right now I think Pentadragon is scummy independent of LlamaFluff getting NK'd.

[StrangerCoug]

SC: yet the way you phrased the post I questioned, it sounded lke he was one of your suspects. Please clarify.

Oh. The "other than him" part. While I do see part of the case on him, what I do see doesn't make him scummy to me in and of itself.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please fix my quote tags.

*mumbles something about lazy bums as she fixes quote tags*

[StrangerCoug]

It combined with the post of yours quoting her does make her look very suspicious. Posting 16 minutes before deadline = posting at the end of the day, and I don't know what made her say she wasn't either.

Major HoS: Electra

[StrangerCoug]

SC why do you only say that after I specifically asked you even though you posted after I brought it up. And now I'm going to curl up and try to sleep off being sick

That Electra is scummy or that populartajo is townie?

[StrangerCoug]

I was too focused on Pentadragon being scummy to pay attention to it. Pentadragon was my #2 after SlySly, and while I had suspected Electra earlier, I had pretty much placed her on the back burner.

[StrangerCoug]

You never gave it. You are the one who is lying here. You have barely commented on anything since replacing in and your comments end of day 1 were mostly worthless. You were also against a deadline extension. I am not letting it go and I don't give a rat's behind if you vote me.

And how is being against the extension scummy when SlySly, the player whose life hung in the balance, was the scummiest player in the game? I decided to be a nice guy not just to SlySly but the players in general by taking Thanksgiving into account and supporting the extension. I would have given no such approval weren't a holiday coming up. Is that scummy too?

[StrangerCoug]

There is no reason to go against a deadline extension. Especially when he wasn't participating to begin with.

So you were in favor of a deadline extension because there's no reason otherwise. You also bring up SlySly's lack of participation. It was clear at that point in the game that SlySly was the scummiest player in the game and would most likely be the lynch for the day.

For the last time, my reason for wanting the deadline extended had absolutely nothing to do with SlySly and everything to do with Thanksgiving as I figured some people would be busy with family and possibly even out of town around that time. I would normally not have approved of the extension, therefore I'm worried about your implying that I am scummy as a result.

It makes absolutely no sense to me that you are after people against an extension given your reasoning that SlySly, the scummiest player in the game, wasn't participating. Not participating = lurking, which is scummy.

FoS: Mirth

[StrangerCoug]

Oops. Misinterpreted your post.

Un-FoS: Mirth

[StrangerCoug]

Were you drunk when you made #830, Pentadragon? I can understand one name botched, but three...

I also understand the time constraints you had typing that, but I don't like the fact that you give your thoughts on other players and then vote me with no other mention of me. I know you had a case on me earlier, so refresh us please.

[StrangerCoug]

All you need to do to see my case on you is look through my posts. (I believe it is Post twenty-six.)

Your #26 in isolation is old news that I've gone through already. Give me something new that I haven't defended yet.

[StrangerCoug]

It's been too long since I've posted. I haven't been prodded, but I need to get off the sidelines. However,

mod: Please prod Pentadragon.

I'm still waiting on him to post an updated case on me.

[StrangerCoug]

@mirth: i dont exactly consider myself a easy target, but it looks like my unorthodox style of game play tends to make me one.

This looks self-contradictory to me, but then again, I think this implies that corporate wasn't initially aware of it. Noting this post as something I want to see play out.

[StrangerCoug]

I have just recieved my first prod. My apologies for allowing this game to get away from me.

Apologies accepted. Now being your case on me up to date.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote's not moving off Pentadragon until I see him update his case on me, regardless of who else I think is scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

Corvuus is not one of the claimed millers, right?

[StrangerCoug]

There's three of them. There's populartajo, there's corporate, and I forgot the third and am too lazy to go back and check who it is.

Looking at #922.

[StrangerCoug]

A couple things I want to comment on.

After replacement has weighed in
then discussion can begin.

Why does one person need replacement stop you from making obvservations on other things going on in the game?

Good question. I'm kind of sitting back waiting on Pentadragon (though I shouldn't, I know), but no one else is pinging my scumdar too much right now. Even so, Pentadragon's case on me was crap even when it was current, and I feel like he's ignoring my requests to bring it up to date. Trying to lurk, Penta?

I feel a contradiction here:

If I ignore the millers in my mind,
then to ignore SC's anti-townness would mean I'm blind.
He may not be scum, but his "style" sucks.
I'd rather him post a "real post townie deluxe".

However, he is only 2nd in my suspicious mind.
LlamaFluff is my #1 choice for a mafia find.

I didn't say SC was the scummiest player.
Just that his play style etc. is biggest anti-town on any layer.

The problem I have with these two statements is that Corv is saying that he thinks llama mafia for ignoring SC, but then states that he didn't say SC was the scummiest player.
Then why did it matter if Llama ignored SC then?

I don't sense a contradiction here—LlamaFluff was his #1; I was his #2. LlamaFluff is dead; I know what I am. Nothing you quoted here, however, suggests to me that Corvuus thought LlamaFluff was ignoring me.

[StrangerCoug]

Unvote: Pentadragon

[StrangerCoug]

Farside, Shadowgirl, Crazy and Coug ALL need to decide a vote.

Pentadragon retracted his vote on me when he realized his case on me had no basis. I responded by unvoting him, and I don't want to revote him so soon. Other than him and the claimed millers, I think Corvuus is the scummiest, but my understanding of his case is insufficient to warrant a vote.

[StrangerCoug]

What do everybody think about a Mirth lynch?

I don't see the case on Mirth.

[StrangerCoug]

Farside, Shadowgirl, Crazy and Coug ALL need to decide a vote.

Pentadragon retracted his vote on me when he realized his case on me had no basis. I responded by unvoting him, and I don't want to revote him so soon. Other than him and the claimed millers, I think Corvuus is the scummiest, but my understanding of his case is insufficient to warrant a vote.

Why did you unvote Pentadragon? Was your case on him only that he had a mistaken case on you?

Essentially.

[StrangerCoug]

All the players who are not voting need to post and have thoughts on who they believe is scum and why.

Corvuus largely for things you brought up earlier. I'm not opposed to a Mirth lynch, though.

[StrangerCoug]

All the players who are not voting need to post and have thoughts on who they believe is scum and why.

Corvuus largely for things you brought up earlier. I'm not opposed to a Mirth lynch, though.

Why? Did you like his lynch before?
What happened to your Pentadragon case?

My Corvuus case is kind of iffy since I had no original input on it and I haven't really committed to it, which is why I'm refraining from voting him. I withdrew my Pentadragon vote because he said his case on me was mistaken, and it makes no sense to recast it on him for that very reason. I do see the case on Mirth, though, and I'm fine hammering her.

[StrangerCoug]

SC, what is the case on me exactly?

In my own words, tunnel vision.

And what's the case on Corv for that matter?

Again in my own words, his interactions with populartajo Day 1/early Day 2.

My claim: I'm the doctor and last night I protected Corv since he's the least scummy of you lot by far.

I'd like to see you explain before day's end, but I don't know if you have enough time. It doesn't mean I don't want to know why you think Corvuus is the least scummy, but I'll buy your claim for the time being.

I hate Electra's #890. Committing a lot of scumtells left and right ≠ being an easy target per se. Many of us had legitimate reasons for thinking SlySly was scum, and the fact that he was not does not suddenly make him an "easy target"—we just guessed wrong. I've been in SlySly's position before.

In addition:

As for defending a player I'm voting for - I'm not 100% sure of scumminess, if the player is not scum, then other's actions would become suspicious.

What the hell are you talking about!?

Vote: Electra

[StrangerCoug]

I'm good with massclaiming. Shall we go popcorn and make Mirth go first?

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: Mirth already claimed.

Fine. Corvuus then.

[StrangerCoug]

Whats popcorn?

The person claiming picks the next person to claim.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP due to crosspost: I think the reasoning behind Corvuus investigating LlamaFluff is iffy because "too townie" is a fallacy. Also, why me Night 2?

[StrangerCoug]

SC, I suspect the 'millers' more than others and I inevitably seem to suspect you because of your playing style. I picked you since I always think you are scummy based on your meta.

As for Llama, I was suspicious of him and it seemed like he was trying to play a specific way which made me think he was trying to be shady/trying to be town.

So unless you are going to counterclaim or somehow knock my claim out, my reasoning doesn't have to make sense to you at all and you saying this makes me think you are scummy which is precisely why I investigated you. You always say the worst things.

Corvuus

So you investigated LlamaFluff based on a fallacy and me based on something that is unreliable in determining a player's alignment? This is crap reasoning for investigations, Corvuus, and this is enough for me to doubt your claim.

The words "my reasoning doesn't have to make sense to you at all" rub me the wrong way as well. You might as well claim to have investigated us because we didn't buy you a Red Bull if we're going that route. I'm going to abstain from voting until all the claims are out, though, but you're not looking good in my book.

[StrangerCoug]

Fine. If you wish to play this game, then who would *YOU* have investigated? I gave a short answer for Llama but I could go back and point out which posts Llama made and how he was acting and what I read from him that made me suspicious.

Night 1 would have been Pentadragon for his/her crap case on me and you Night 2 based on late Day 1 and early Day 2.

Or perhaps it is just my interpretation of the cop role is completely different from yours. I can investigate people who are suspicious (and I am likely to be able to lynch them) or I can investigate someone (llama in this case) who I think may be shady but almost impossible for me to lynch. "Easy scum" town is likely to find. If Llama was scum, then I would have had him and in terms of "risk-reward" I considered it a good move.

Possibly a different interpretation of the role, but the only completed game so far where I remotely could have been considered an investigation role, I didn't get to use it.

As for my investigation on you, who else would I target? The millers are pointless to investigate, I expected Mirth to die so I didn't want to waste an investigation on her, and who am I left with? Crazy has already soft-claimed so I considered him out of it, and I just have 'farside, penta, and SC' to choose from.

OK, I understand now. Case dropped.

[StrangerCoug]

@Corvuus: No... Tajo shows up as scum upon death, not investigation. Hence the 'death' part.

Yes he does. If you are a miller, you are innocent but investigate as guilty to a sane cop. The "death" part means that he also flips as guilty.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: You show corporate as a miller in the death scene but a vanilla townie in the player list.

[StrangerCoug]

I think this is something Mirth should explain.

Corv is obviously post restricted. No player would fake a post restriction that complicated for that long and not slip up. This says nothing of his alignment.

As to why Corv, because it was a choice between Llama and Corv for me as most obviously townie, and I thought going for the one with the post restriction is safer, since scum seem to think post restriction = halfway to confirmed town.

Also, Farside has a point. Mirth, why did you choose Corv over Llama? Llama was so the NK choice. And it was so town to you. Look.

Good catch regarding protecting Corvuus.

FoS: Mirth

on that alone.

Also, I'm not sure how well Mirth knows LlamaFluff, but the latter is a pretty common Night 1 target, and I remember him saying in Mafia Discussion that he gets killed about half the time he's town then.

[StrangerCoug]

SC 1014: Why Corv?

Answered in #1027, even if based largely on things farside22 said.

SC 1023: soooo any reason besides a bit of crap logic as to why you dont like the claim?

It made little sense to me until Corvuus explained that it was process of elimination as to who to investigate.

SC 1042: I would know this how exactly? I don't believe in meta and I'm not going to start playing based on it?

I don't either; I'm just making an observation.

Oh, for the popcorn, I pick SC next.

Vanilla townie. Pentadragon, you're next.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod Pentadragon.

[StrangerCoug]

Do that then.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, your still being alive at this point seems off, Mirth. If you're town, then you're most likely roleblocked. (My paranoia is actually suggesting that you and Corvuus are scumbuddies.) I can test it by asking the claimed powers if they've been blocked to their knowledge, though...

[StrangerCoug]

SC: What about Corv's claim makes you believe he is scum?

It's not the claim itself that's worrying me about Corvuus anymore. Mirth claims to have protected Corvuus both nights so far. Given that Mirth claimed Day 2, how come they're both alive on Day 3? That's what's puzzling me.

And I know about the damn mind game that is WIFOM.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, your still being alive at this point seems off, Mirth. If you're town, then you're most likely roleblocked. (My paranoia is actually suggesting that you and Corvuus are scumbuddies.) I can test it by asking the claimed powers if they've been blocked to their knowledge, though...

This is scummy logic. A doctor is a weak power role, so keeping a doc alive doesn't hurt the scum greatly. And since Mirth had aroused quite a bit of suspicion already, I wouldn't expect her to die, scum or town.

This isn't to defend Mirth, just to show that "OMG claimed power role survived the night" isn't a valid attack.

Nowhere did I say that Mirth definitively had to be scum if she survived the night—I only said that it seemed off. In fact, the same post you quote brings up the possibility of Mirth getting roleblocked, if you actually read. That's why I want to ask the power roles if they're aware of being roleblocked.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm questioning Korlash's claim right now. First off, even though I buy sanity issues being in play, Pentadragon's day 2 actions are not suggestive of someone with a guilty on Corvuus. Second, if Pentadragon were the cop, why would he be worrying about being a miller? Third, I thought cops who don't investigate somebody didn't get innocent/guilty results on a random person.

Major HoS: Korlash

. I want everyone's thoughts on this before I move this to a full-fledged vote.

[StrangerCoug]

I hate this goddamn nightmare of a game. I've never played with Korlash before, so without beforehand knowledge of how he plays, I'm tempted to say that it's WIFOM that Korlash says he wouldn't fake something traceable back to his predecessor.

We have two claimed cops, two claimed millers (left), one claimed doctor, one claimed thief and two claimed vanillas (left). What Korlash said isn't making me happy, but I will play devil's advocate in order to entertain the possibility that Pentadragon doesn't know how to play a cop role.

I can't make any sense of Crazy's claim either, but probably because I would think a thief would know what he's stolen. I'm trying not to play mod WIFOM, but it doesn't fit with soft-claiming a fourth miller on Day 1, regardless of whether or not it's a day start and/or if he got a head start.

I believe Mirth at the moment, and I know what I am, so if I believe Korlash and Crazy to be scum, that leaves both claimed millers and farside22 as candidates for the third person in the trio (assuming it's a trio, of course). I'm leaning a

TAD

bit towards populartajo, and only because I'm paranoid of the death miller claim being a scum safe claim.

[StrangerCoug]

I hate this goddamn nightmare of a game. I've never played with Korlash before, so without beforehand knowledge of how he plays, I'm tempted to say that it's WIFOM that Korlash says he wouldn't fake something traceable back to his predecessor.

Would you like a link to my profile? My "job" has been fakeclaim extrodinaire for over a year now. How about to my wiki page? i have a nice little secion devoted to my fakeclaims. Sadly I'm too lazy to expand that section. I'm hoping one day to include the actual fakecalim, game number, and how it played out.

None of this proves anything in the long run I suppose, but if you are havign doubts I suppose it might make a differance.

My only real problem with this: I'm not ShadowGirl.

[StrangerCoug]

... *sighs* No you are SG from now and and Shadow girl is Shadow or Girl... >.> Stupid letters... *rants and knocks things over*

I am not and I will never be SG. It's SC. Or Coug. Or whatever. I'm called a lot of things.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, post explosion, trying to comprehend everything.

Since we forgot about and then were reminded about that one rule, Korlash is bumped down my suspicion list to the middle of the road. I still think Crazy's claim is crap, and I don't like populartajo's vote on farside22.

Vote: Crazy
FoS: populartajo

[StrangerCoug]

Doesn't change my confidence in my vote.

[StrangerCoug]

What you initially gave for your vote reasons were too vague to my liking, but since you've clarified and I understand the case I'll

un-FoS: populartajo

.

[StrangerCoug]

Farside, the other vanilla, I havent liked her since D2. Weird stance against corpo and there is something off with her attacks against Mirth.

This could have meant anything about farside22's cases on corporate and Mirth before your clarification, and I therefore read this as voting on gut, something you shouldn't be doing in LYLO.

[StrangerCoug]

I already said why. You clarified your position against farside22, and I see your case on her.

[StrangerCoug]

Mmmmm. Do you think its valid?

Yes.

What you initially gave for your vote reasons were too vague to my liking, but since you've clarified and I understand the case I'll

un-FoS: populartajo

.

What about my counter comments on his so called case?

I'll start by saying there's a difference between invalidity and nonexistence.

What part of PT do you think is a solid case?

As of when you asked, your defending Mirth. In fact, after you asked, populartajo presented more of his case against you, and his accusing you of a double standard (specifically, FoS'ing me but not Mirth for sucking up to LlamaFluff) reads to me as you being a favoritist towards her.

[StrangerCoug]

Nice contradiction I see before me. How wonderful you made a comment about PT before the actual case he mentions later you say is solid.

Wait a minute—since when am I supposed to be psychic? I FoS'd populartajo on the grounds that he was being vague with his suspicions on you and could easily have been voting on gut in LYLO. After I voiced my dislike of his vote, but before I pulled the FoS, he clarified and elaborated his stance on you; therefore, those grounds no longer apply. I thought that was obvious to everyone reading.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't believe in scum tells, but not playing reeks of scumminess much more to me than does spouting utter and complete nonsense.

*faints*

[StrangerCoug]

SC stated an FOS saying he did not like PT's case.

I'm not going to deny that my FoS is related to his case since I called it vague and could easily have been based on gut feelings (which they shouldn't be in LYLO) at that point, but I said that I didn't like his

vote

.

[StrangerCoug]

I can't make any sense of Crazy's claim either, but probably because I would think a thief would know what he's stolen. I'm trying not to play mod WIFOM, but it doesn't fit with soft-claiming a fourth miller on Day 1, regardless of whether or not it's a day start and/or if he got a head start.

Oh, please, don't tell me I didn't soft-claim right. I said outright that I

wasn't

a miller and that I had flavor similar to Tajo's (the search-through-my-stuff-once-I-die-thing).

Then explain this from Day 1:

2 claims means someone is likely lying.

3 (or 4, *cough*) claims means mod's a bastard.

[StrangerCoug]

Has everybody missed the part where Coug is blatantly lying?

It's called chronological progression of events *facepalm*

[StrangerCoug]

And Ive been wondering all this time, why is Coug still alive?

I've found lately that asking why players are still alive is a scum tell.

FoS: populartajo.

Has everybody missed the part where Coug is blatantly lying?

It's called chronological progression of events *facepalm*

No it isnt, liar.

Yes it is. It was thus:

• #1163: You say farside22 had a weird stance on corporate and her attacks against Mirth, so vote her. At this point, you think I am town.
  
• #1180: I say I don't like your vote, so FoS you.
  
• #1188: You present your case on farside22 in more detail; in fact, you ask me if I could have waited for the case before I said I don't like it.
  
• #1191: I can no longer call your farside22 case vague and based on gut, so pull the FoS.
  
• #1192: You ask why I did so.
  
• #1193: I reiterate #1191 and state that I see the case presented in #1188.
• #1194: You ask if I think your case is valid.
  
• #1206: I answer that it is, and I attack farside22 for dismissing your case as nonexistant (even if rather than crap) and being a favoritist toward Mirth.
  
• #1209: You make the first implication that I am a liar.[/color]
  
  For your accusation to hold any ground, therefore, what you call my "lie" has to be somewhere between #1180 and #1206 inclusive. So, using those posts and those posts
  ONLY
  , prove that it exists. I want to see where I have contradicted myself, as it's not clear to me.
  

  I'm still waiting on SC's side of it... But I believe he said he understood Pop's case on farside before pop even made it.

  I don't remember such.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

Yes it is. It was thus:

• #1163: You say farside22 had a weird stance on corporate and her attacks against Mirth, so vote her. At this point, you think I am town.
  
• #1180: I say I don't like your vote, so FoS you.
  
• #1188: You present your case on farside22 in more detail; in fact, you ask me if I could have waited for the case before I said I don't like it.
  
• #1191: I can no longer call your farside22 case vague and based on gut, so pull the FoS.
  
• #1192: You ask why I did so.
  
• #1193: I reiterate #1191 and state that I see the case presented in #1188.
• #1194: You ask if I think your case is valid.
  
• #1206: I answer that it is, and I attack farside22 for dismissing your case as nonexistant (even if rather than crap) and being a favoritist toward Mirth.
  
• #1209: You make the first implication that I am a liar.

For your accusation to hold any ground, therefore, what you call my "lie" has to be somewhere between #1180 and #1206 inclusive. So, using those posts and those posts

ONLY

, prove that it exists. I want to see where I have contradicted myself, as it's not clear to me.

Tags fixed.

[StrangerCoug]

You said that something was off with farside22's attacks against Mirth, and looking back, the first quote in #1188 is by farside22. I therefore misinterpreted the rest of the quotes in #1188 as farside22, not you, attacking Mirth. (Korlash is therefore right )

[StrangerCoug]

populartajo, if I'm not mistaken, for Mirth and I to make any sense as scumbuddies, Corvuus would have to be either scum that knows we're town or naïve. I understand some of your case on me, but your denying that you are pushing a two-godfather theory when you have the scum trio pinned as Mirth, farside22, and me is logical fail.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: My post is logical fail too >< Pretend the words "that knows we're town" aren't in #1297.

[StrangerCoug]

Yes, I read #1296, but the only relevance I see that post having to what I'm currently attacking you for is the sanity issues. As I said, for Mirth and I to both be scum, Corvuus has to be either scum himself or naïve. Korlash doesn't have a guilty on Mirth and me, so that's obviously not why I'm questioning your scum grouping. A 50/50 cop is plausible, but I see no evidence supporting one.

Something I thought about after making it: For there to be two godfathers, there also has to be two scum groups. Mathematically possible at this point, but not supported by what's out there.

I admit that I was rather focused on what was your farside22 vote. Yes, that's in #1163 rather than #1188 where you talk about Mirth. I am fully aware that you mentioned Mirth in every paragraph in #1188. However, I misinterpreted the attacker as farside22 instead of you. If you are not happy with my explanation here, I'm sorry, but everything else has been said already.

[StrangerCoug]

Yes.

[StrangerCoug]

I have a guilty on Mirth...

Oops. So that

COMPLETELY

blows up the two-godfather theory. Who did Corvuus investigate other than me, then?

[StrangerCoug]

Thanks for making me feel like a complete idiot now >< I remember that now.

[StrangerCoug]

Wait, why aren't we no lynching?

Shoot me if I know, but your suggesting that both Mirth and I are scum together is already credibly bankrupt and a no-lynch, if we're still playing the day after, will blow it to bits if Korlash and I haven't done it already.

[StrangerCoug]

Wait, why aren't we no lynching?

Shoot me if I know, but your suggesting that both Mirth and I are scum together is already credibly bankrupt and a no-lynch, if we're still playing the day after, will blow it to bits if Korlash and I haven't done it already.

I dont understand this. Could you rephrase it?

I don't know why we aren't going for a no-lynch. The last time I checked, you believed Corvuus to be sane and Korlash insane. You also said that Mirth or I,

BUT NOT LIKELY BOTH OF US,

could be the godfather. Corvuus has an innocent on me and Korlash a guilty on Mirth, meaning that unless Corvuus is naïve and Korlash paranoid (which I'm not denying), the scum team cannot be Mirth, farside22, and me as you believe. Korlash and I have gone through why two godfathers make no sense anyway. No-lynching will only serve to trash the possibility of two godfathers beyond all recognition.

You're stretching something that does not need to be stretched and making absolutely no sense.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm leaning slightly towards scum on farside22 based on her reactions with Mirth earlier.

[StrangerCoug]

Not necessarily. I don't have anything particularly damning against Mirth.

[StrangerCoug]

You actually already talked about it a little, but here you go. Note that I corrected one of the speakers from the original post.

I don't see it that way. Llama however mentions a difference between one post that Juls made and another and I can see where she thought both might be the same thing. Its something many a newb are confused about. That seems more of a trap move then your comment.

Why all the defense of Llama?

SC is guilty for sucking up to Llama but Mirth isnt. She only gets a question. There are no vote:Mirth not even a FOS even though Mirth was still not getting the point. In the other hand, Mirth was questioning farside but she also never voted/fosed her. Once again, Mirth was being deliberately weak with farside.

What part of PT do you think is a solid case?

As of when you asked, your defending Mirth. In fact, after you asked, populartajo presented more of his case against you, and his accusing you of a double standard (specifically, FoS'ing me but not Mirth for sucking up to LlamaFluff) reads to me as you being a favoritist towards her.

This specifically. (I can see where you're getting the Mirth-farside22 connection from, though.)

[StrangerCoug]

Not necessarily. I don't have anything particularly damning against Mirth.

So she is scum with who?. Any guesses?

Missed this, but same beliefs (and stance) as Mirth in #1329.

Yes... the mini needs attention! Ondalay, ondalay! Haiaku, haiaku!

"Ondalay" should be "Ã

[StrangerCoug]

Tajo, I never said I wasnt a weak doc. I said I dont know. I don't know the mod's contingencies here.

So what role are you?

Pardon the insult, but this is freaking dumb.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh yeah, Korlash, that should totally be "hayaku". I've read the lyrics to Gackt's "Vanilla" to know that far too well. (Yeah, I sang it as karaoke at a con once)

grr... I can spell it in hiragana... screw English...

はやく and not はいあく, right?

[StrangerCoug]

Coug, Im asking Mirth how she knows she isnt a weak doctor. How does she know she isnt a killing doctor. In summary, what role she thinks she is.

And she answered your question before you even asked it, and she's just said it again. She has absolutely no clue.

[StrangerCoug]

Damn post explosion >< I had to find where I left off.

Okay.
Coug and farside, do you have an item in your vanilla roles?

No.

I'll admit it was bad, however I'm sure you can see that it would make absolutely

no

sense to crumb miller when 3 people had already fully claimed miller. As either scum or town,

why would I?

This is a big fat WIFOM.

And nobody has any issue with the actual Day 1 soft-claim, right? That all fits in with what I said. I'll just admit that the "crumb" was poorly worded, and I really wasn't expecting anyone to notice it. (Yes, I've never breadcrumbed before in a game.)

As a rule, I pay attention to *cough, cough* coughing online. *cough*

The fact that you atually call it a breadcrumb when it clearly isn't is interesting. How exactly is saying there are 4 millers a breadcrumbt that he isn't a miller? Also, seeing as how you are scum also, another cum trying to confirm you isn't all that hard to believe.

I wasn't breadcrumbing that I was "not a miller;" I was breadcrumbing that I was "similar to a miller." If I was a miller, I'd say something like:

"This is insane, because I'm also a miller."

The way that I was indirect shows that I was

not

trying to breadcrumb miller.

Stop backtracking. Your breadcrumb explicitly mentioned there being four millers, and three had claimed already. The most likely way for you to know a fourth miller existed for you to actually be the fourth miller.

You said "everyone thinks farside is scum" that is false. As far as I go, it is PoE. From Corv's last post I assume it's PoE for him as well. I don't care if YOU have a case or not, "EVERYONE" doesn't.

Well, actually I can see that, since both sides of this debate seem to have farside as the last scum by Process of Elimination, right? Why do we have to pick between sides when we share some common ground.

It seems farfetched for scum to claim to come up to cops as guilty and will flip guilty if lynched?

When 2 other people claim millers after him,

yes, yes, yes.

I've found lately that asking why players are still alive is a scum tell. FoS: populartajo.

LOLZ, didn't you ask why Mirth and me were still alive earlier? And making up fake scumtells is a scum-tell. (Except when I did it in Open 86. )

You can't exactly make up a "fake" scumtell if you remember doing what you're calling a scumtell more often as scum than town. I'll keep it to that to stay out of trouble with ongoings.

Forget the breadcrumb.

NO!

This is a false dillema. If we lynch somebody other than Crazy—that includes you—and he or she turns out to be scum, the game continues.

If Tajo is scum, I am too. So really, there's no benefit to lynching Tajo instead of me. RIGHT?

While I believe you to be scum and that a connection between you and populartajo exists, that's not what I'm saying here. I'm saying that other options exist besides lynching you and going for a no lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't really have objections to discussion of mathematical possibilities and all, but I think we've gotten distracted from actual scumhunting.

Crazy is scum for having a claim that makes absolutely no sense. I don't know why nobody's explaining why he is/isn't likely scum at this point in terms of his actions.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: You show me as having one vote but don't name who it is.

[StrangerCoug]

Can anyone explain to me why they think Crazy isn't lying scum fake claiming at this point?

I thought the general consensus was that he was.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod everybody that hasn't posted on this page yet.

[StrangerCoug]

So Crazy has fallen off the face of MafiaScum? Best give a likely replacement time to read, then.

Vote: Deadline extension

And forget no-lynching. I'm confident in scum and I don't need to throw my confidence away.

[StrangerCoug]

I think Im going crazy here but Mirth and Coug, can you explain why you are voting deadline extension if you both have admitted that nothing can change your mind about Crazyscum?

The more info we have about his lynch before his lynch, the better, you know

[StrangerCoug]

Let's add lurking to Crazy's crimes.

[StrangerCoug]

Uhh, Crazy, if you think scum talk is overrated, then why exactly are you advocating No Lynch? That's a whole bunch of logical fail in and of itself.

Most of us are not considering No Lynch because we are certain that you are scum. You are doing nothing to convince us otherwise. In fact, the appeal to emotion you just did could very well be the final nail in your coffin. I understand that Mafia is frustrating you—I get that all the time. In fact, I'm stressed out easily. However, it is very scummy to tell everybody to shut up, let alone rude. There's probably other things wrong with your post that I can't describe in words right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Who do you suspect and why?

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please note my sig.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm done with this useless talk about no lynching. Most of us are not going to throw our confidence in the garbage, so we might as well get a move on.

[StrangerCoug]

Korlash, have you ever heard of Inadvertent Mountainous?

[StrangerCoug]

I only intended to give another situation in which millers can exist without cops anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

How can any extra cop investigation really be BAD?

You blocking the cop and thus you denying us this result.

Who would you target for RB tonight?

Mirth/SC. It doesn't really matter, though, since farside will send in the kill because I blocked her last night and can't block the same person twice in a row.

How do you know that farside22 will be making a kill tonight?

Both Mirth and SC can't be scum...

How are you and Pop not getting that?

Didn't you investigate them both? Why couldn't you be paranoid? Or why couldn't you be insane and one of them be the GF?

He didn't investigate us both; he only investigated Mirth. Corvuus has an innocent on me. There is no way in hell we have time to worry about sanity issues or godfathers at this point.

[StrangerCoug]

Who has the hammer?

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: I hereby request replacement. See updated sig for reason.

[StrangerCoug]

Thanks for giving me a win Kublai Khan!