Micro 1050 | Ace Attorney: The Trial of Lotta Hart | End

[koopashell]

I think I'm effectively an IC based on my claim even though, yee, mafia have fakeclaims.

I have a novice role that is pretty weak too so I assume this is role madness.

[koopashell]

VOTE: koopashell

I know your type. You heard about the incident and came to snoop around. Youths today! Something happens and all you can think of is sightseeing. Wasting your time at a place like this. Don’t you have a job you should be doing? Or do you not work like the rest of us? Maybe I should try it out myself. Sounds like a life of ease no work just loading around all day as you please. Well when I was young things were a mite different, mind you we didn’t prance about in strange hippie clothes. What are the youths coming to these days my own son hasn’t called in…

Do not take this seriously.

Objection

[koopashell]

VOTE: Radical Rat

L-2

[koopashell]

VOTE: Radical Rat

L-2

why didnt you vote in your first two posts?

I saw nothing worth voting for. Carry on.

[koopashell]

VOTE: Radical Rat

L-2

why didnt you vote in your first two posts?

I saw nothing worth voting for. Carry on.

This answer doesn’t sit right with me. I think a more feasible explanation would have been being more busy with the initial ideas koopashell wanted to convey.

L + Ratio + Don't care

[koopashell]

VOTE: Radical Rat

L-2

why didnt you vote in your first two posts?

I saw nothing worth voting for. Carry on.

so it's a serious vote then yea? why did you want to push the wagon to L-2 so early?

Because I felt like it, and I am not you, so your implication that this is "bad" does not affect my play. It was enough that I announced L-2. You're welcome.

Do you think his entrance was villagery?

[koopashell]

Did no one open the link in Radical Rat's post?

The point is that RR explicitly is trying to fish a claim out of me - something I obviously refuse to do on page 1. I want people to reach their

own

conclusions, and not just ones fed to them by me.

I am noting that you are

continuing

to make subtle accusations at me as if I am wolfy without explicitly saying so. First you noted the L-2 thing and now you are saying that my choice to not share a reason was also wolfy. I'd like you to either speak plainly on how you stand on my slot, or at least knock off this kind of subtle shade.

You're on my radar.

[koopashell]

I think I'm effectively an IC based on my claim even though, yee, mafia have fakeclaims.

I have a novice role that is pretty weak too so I assume this is role madness.

https://objection.lol/objection/3580148

VOTE: koopashell

Here's a screenshot of what the link leads to.

[koopashell]

I'm not able to really partake in this game right now.

Over at my mother's making chicken.

I will be back later but for right now I'm just going to enjoy this obscenely large painting that I have in my office.

fat

[koopashell]

It would be indeed good if you tell us the reason. I have to agree with the bulge here. On the other hand, bulge, what's your stance on the radical rat post?

i don't think it was all that scummy

Why was that not scummy, but my actions worth questioning?
Seems like you are treating me differently than RR here.

[koopashell]

My own opinion is that it’s a fair call-out

Aye, until the added sentence in the post below.
That one is defensive and very image-conscious. That's scummy.

Who taught you to play mafia?
Being defensive and image conscious are not wolfy on their own. It is if it is absent in the player's town game, but it can very well be something present in both, particularly in high level players who are aware of their position at the table.

[koopashell]

My own opinion is that it’s a fair call-out

Aye, until the added sentence in the post below.
That one is defensive and very image-conscious. That's scummy.

Who taught you to play mafia?
Being defensive and image conscious are not wolfy on their own. It is if it is absent in the player's town game, but it can very well be something present in both, particularly in high level players who are aware of their position at the table.

Yes, they are wolfy on their own. Scum players tend to do this more than town players, on average.

You just contradicted yourself, you admitted that this can be present in villa play, ergo, it is not strictly wolf indicative and requires nuance. Unless you consider mafia to be an RNG game where you play for odds, in which case I think we will have much disagreement. You should consider reading your own words and the implications of them before you hit send so you don't make such foolish statements in the future.
On the bright side, I villa read you so that pleases me I can largely ignore you from this point forward.

[koopashell]

Are games usually this dead here?

[koopashell]

It would be indeed good if you tell us the reason. I have to agree with the bulge here. On the other hand, bulge, what's your stance on the radical rat post?

i don't think it was all that scummy

Why was that not scummy, but my actions worth questioning?
Seems like you are treating me differently than RR here.

??

I'm essentially implying that if I was in a position, where the thread was closed, and I was to choose 2 players and they both had to be wolves, or else we lose, my top 2 candidates would be Radical Rat and yourself due to how you are giving Radical Rat a pass for something very clearly a fishing attempt, while showing overt criticism for me attempting to push the game forward, and painting my actions in a way that is worse.

Do you have any gut reads, if any, other than me as wolf?

[koopashell]

I’ve played DD and SoJ basically in full (just need to finish the DLC case of SoJ)
Haven’t really played any others otherwise, I did play through like a third of AJ once

I think I'm on case three of Spirit of Justice, but I've completed all the other mainline games (minus AAI2 which technically doesn't have an official translation but does have a fan one).

I think I'm effectively an IC based on my claim even though, yee, mafia have fakeclaims.

I have a novice role that is pretty weak too so I assume this is role madness.

https://objection.lol/objection/3580148

VOTE: koopashell

This feels a bit like rolefishing to me which on page 1 I don't think we need to get into outing everyone yet, as later on we collectively can decide if that will be beneficial to town.

But conversely I don't super love koopashell's soft innocent child (sorry if that is me misreading the acronym, I haven't played in nearly a decade) claim as it can feel like trying to get a town pass (but we know that the mafia has safe fake claims so I don't know if anyone can be cleared due to character flavour).

Reading into mechanical info this early is ill advised - I would ask kindly that if you are town to simply discard the claim and instead read into the reactions to it. My role is 100% self resolving, by either mafia killing me tonight because they understand what I'm softing, or by me living to night 2 and being able to use my self resolving ability.

[koopashell]

I never asked anyone or criticised anyone for not townreading me for the claim, so the theory that I am doing it simply for that is not exactly valid - I can back up my claim when is needed, I'm simply laying crumbs to ensure people know I am not talking out my ass.
From my experience with host provided fake claims - they usually are not actually good, so when we do get to a massclaim stage, I do feel we can sus out whoever is mafia via their claim because they will be ostentatiously be "too safe".

[koopashell]

My apologies if I'm posting too much for the thread, I am used to a much faster speed normally, and I am simply trying to maintain my presence. It does help if people are open with their thoughts right away wrt other players so it is easier to sort and not have to go back and forth to get those answers.

[koopashell]

It's subtle bait to make it seem like I have to claim or to reveal more info about my role. Also generally I feel that wolves will feel uncomfortable with things that help town and tend to immediately react negatively to them.

[koopashell]

At least, that's how I interpret it and how it makes me feel when I am asked that. It's early game and I was trying to push on something to move the game forward at the very least and had wolfpings from it.

[koopashell]

You’re the one who volunteered role info apropos of nothing
Thinking people wouldn’t be curious what you were playing at seems short-sighted
What I rlly don’t get is why the mention of scum fakeclaims?

I mentioned wolf fakeclaims because objectively, people should think that my flavor is one that scum should not be able to receive, and thus why my role is fully resolvable at night 2.
RR's reaction was less curious - more frustrated, however.

I'm really surprised that no one really understood the soft although I'm sure wolves did and kept it to themselves.

I volunteer role info because I am a player who believes in honesty and openness, and that sharing as much as possible is a key to solving the game. I hardly expect people to see my view right away - I am oftentimes 2 steps ahead of town due to my experience, but I do believe in villas to eventually be able to reach the same conclusions as myself, if they are correct, eventually through other means, as the Truth always prevails.

[koopashell]

Are you scumreading me, or not, ShadowGirl?
Inherently saying my role resolves on Night 2 and that my flavor is extremely villa indicative is not asking those things, I am merely trueclaiming.

Have I acted in a way where I am simply sitting back and abusing that fact to do nothing? That is how it feels like you are framing it.

I'm asking you to evaluate me on things outside of that, which you are stubbornly not doing and is frustrating from my point of view.

I know you have not really read my posts because you wrote down RR's words and failed to notice that I posted a screenshot of the thing he linked, so are you evaluating me in good faith or not?

[koopashell]

If I am a wolf, I have effectively crippled my team and have put faith in my wolf partner to endgame by themselves as I would be automatically chopped on day 3 as soon as it is clear I am not self resolving - so you don't really need to worry about that. Mafia is a game that is about holistic solves, you don't need to make hard reads like that on me when we can just play regular mafia and not try to be heroes here. My concern is that there is too much focus on my claim and not enough focus on sorting *other slots* and that this is engulfing the game in an unhealthy way when I have asked several time to disregard my claim right now.

[koopashell]

"It is anti-town ergo wolfy"
Heard this one a million times, imagine my shock when it is actually a terrible way to sort someone.

Your statement about scum not worrying about the nightkill is extremely nonsensical. I can fullclaim at any time and bury you if you want to continue spewing nonsense, RR, would you like that?

[koopashell]

There is actually a benefit to not actually being clear, because it's easier to read the game.

Can you tell me what your reads *outside* of my slot are?

I am tired of asking this question because it seems I am getting all of the focus and it is quite annoying when I feel I should be fairly obviously a villa if one just discards the daystart claim as reasoning because, well, it isn't real reasoning and is a noob trap.

[koopashell]

As for the difference between "what is your flavor then?" and "why did you say this" there is no effective difference, so please spare me the overexplainations of how it is "technically" not the same thing. You wanted me to claim my flavor and I am refusing to.

I guess it is not just other sites that people are completely terrible with reading into mechplay and assume the worst possible theories because they all want to be heroes, except they are too busy trying to take shitty shortcuts instead of playing mafia

[koopashell]

VOTE: The Bulge

Something in your last post felt villagery, however, even though it is so convoluted and wrong. Feels more you think you got a case of the "I want to be wright", but really you are just, as I mentioned in my last post, taking a shortcut that does not ever work consistently.


You have never played with me - you should perhaps assume good faith that the action I am doing, if it can be determined as NAI, is indeed, NAI. In fact, I think many would actually improve their townplay if they didn't attack a claim just for the sake of attacking someone claiming such as in the manner I did Just a thought.

For all you know, I am a vanilla role trying to gambit my way into drawing the night 1 kill. But I digress. I am getting a bit frustrated with how I am being treated by several people and feel this discussion is easily making it possible for wolves to blend in at this point and hyperfocus my slot.

Reread it, something feels off with ShadowGirl in her latest post - @ShadowGirl, would you mind posting a reads list so far for us? Just a ranked list, doesn't need to be fancy. I would like to prod into your thought processes. It is not because of the fact I am the one being attacked - before you try to accuse me of that. I have my own reasons and they revolve over how you fit this bill I feel for a wolf who is attempting to blend into this nonsense mech discussion. There's a lot of "uncertainty" that comes off as disingenuous

to me

, such as the first sentence trailing off as a question, as if seeking validation for the point. Reminding me however how much I hate the early game because of all the stretches one has to make to progress the gamestate especially when not everyone has been particularly active.

[koopashell]

Can you tell me what your reads *outside* of my slot are?

I mean, it's page 3, and you're by far the most interesting poster.

However, I do have a scumlean on NK15, and a Town lean on Gamma and ShadowGirl

Interesting, because I find NK15 to just be VI material rather than a wolf, while ShadowGirl, as I explained in my last post, has pinged me in a wolfy way.

Gamma I will agree on that they have been fairly villagery so far. I feel that is a player that will show their alignment over time through stamina and energy, so I am not particularly worried about them.

[koopashell]

Not Known 15
Gamma Emerald
Save the Dragons
Radical Rat
Not_Mafia
Kcdaspot
ShadowGirl
The Bulge

A ranking I made according to gut feeling within 10 seconds.

[koopashell]

Well I think my action was not sketchy, but rather stated honestly. Do wolves on this site typically open with attention grabbers related to roles to restrict themselves later in the game?

[koopashell]

I can count on 1 hand the players I know that would do that, and thats out of at least 100 people.

[koopashell]

Well I am sorry you are limited in your ability to think of town scenarios - perhaps think of something you consider "sub-optimal" that someone else may not

I already explained it - it's an overt crumb. My role is weak. I do not care about softing it. I prefer to play with discussion.

[koopashell]

UNVOTE:
You…

Please explain this in detail.

something about koopashell seems familiar, and given that the soft seems like a legit town move

I don't believe we have played at the same table.

[koopashell]

I have never played with you, sorry.

[koopashell]

I feel as though i have too many villareads right now and not enough wolfreads - implying my nulls have wolves in them, such as STD.
A generous solve for me right now includes 2/4 of:
[Bulge, KDCA, Not Mafia, Save The Dragons]

[koopashell]

yeah vote the guy on v/la until tonight.

this but unironically.

nothing wrong with forcing someone to immediately have to post thoughts under pressure.

[koopashell]

koopa isn’t sure town for me yet, I just feel like they’re more likely town than scum rn

But what specifically about the soft claim reads as town to you? What do you think about RR's post about it?

Claims are not alignment indicative. Who taught you people mafia???
Read my reads not my claims.

[koopashell]

ShadowGirl, why am I wolfy?

[koopashell]

ShadowGirl, why am I wolfy?

Without referencing my claim.

[koopashell]

Since I'm honestly not in the mood to do this.

I'm Phoenix Wright, a novice desperado.
Since my top villa read wants to be a willager I want to just take the pressure off. I'm not particularly a fan of roles like desperado, but at least I know I can be accurate with it.

Have fun.
If you think scum fakeclaim includes desperado, you're actaully trolling btw

[koopashell]

Gamma and NK15 are obvious villagers, never chop them.

[koopashell]

It is embarassing from some of the players to assume that I have acted in bad faith, notably NK15, who has essentially acted the role of a 3rd wolf.
I'm disappointed.

[koopashell]

I have flavor associated with my role action, and a specific way to perform my role. Pheonix Wright's role being weak was what prompted me to believe that this was a role madness setup.
I think though, having me be clear day 1 even if I get night 1'd will help win the game as I have confidence in hitting wolf here.

[koopashell]

Yup. Thanks for fishing it bud

[koopashell]

Yup. Thanks for fishing it bud

You fished yourself, bud. There was no reason for you to say anything about your role until you intended to use it. It was weird that you did, and while I do regret that a fullclaim was the result of this whole kerfuffle, I don't regret pointing out that weirdness.

I told people several times to shut the fuck up about my role soft because it is pointless. Post reads. Stop talking about my claim. It's out there now , no refuge in audacity anymore.

[koopashell]

It is embarassing from some of the players to assume that I have acted in bad faith, notably NK15, who has essentially acted the role of a 3rd wolf.
I'm disappointed.

No, what's embarassing is that, if you are indeed town, you:
-claimed a confirmable and powerful role way too early, falsely assuming it to be a low power role
-Criticized pushing for anti-town behaviour because it is anti-town, then did it yourself - a very scummy behaviour.

You wouldn't be able to find actual wolfy behavior if it smacked you in the face.
It is a bad swingy role.

You are caught red handed pushing a villager for shit reasons and now blame the other person for not acting the way you think all villagers need to act instead of thinking "oh my reading method kinda sucks".
*That* is embarassing. I really hope you are a PR this game because you really should not get close to any sort of LyLo.

[koopashell]

If you are unable to have the ability to try to think outside of the box in terms of how villagers act and instead project your idea on how they should act you will often fail to find wolves and that will reflect in your accuracy.
What I did at game start was frankly, ridiculous that people focused on it, and even moreso - assumed it was a *scum gambit*. I really would hope that was done because actual wolves do this on this site and not some self serving assumption on how you think villagers need to play the game.

[koopashell]

Now, i believe there is a PoE i had that I would like to follow - *avoiding* the Not Mafia slot for now as votes there will be somewhat useless for pressure from what I hear and see from their few posts as being some sort of troll.

[koopashell]

You wouldn't be able to find actual wolfy behavior if it smacked you in the face.
It is a bad swingy role.

No, your play and mechanical understanding are

bad

. Terribly bad.
If you criticize behaviour A and then do A later then

you

need to stop behaviour A or stop criticizing it.
In this case, it is indeed a matter how townies should behave. You can find scum by finding inconsistencies in their reasoning that point towards them trying to get someone executed instead of trying to get scum executed. Sometimes, town do display this behaviour. As I said... it is a matter of probabilities.
And now on bad play, yes, what you did is bad. You told someone to stop pushing for antitown behaviour just because it is anti-town

then you pushed someone for antitown behaviour because it was anti-town.

Please take a moment to step back and think: Would you, if I said "Behaviour A isn't scummy" and then later said about someone else "Behaviour A is scummy" think this likely comes from

town

?
That's

lying about motivations for townreads/scumreads

.

Now to that ridiculous assumption that Novice Desperado in a 9 players game is somehow so weak that you can announce it early.
Used wisely, it can help town tremendously in some situation, it depends on the setup a bit, too.
Let me show you how it can alter the chances of hitting scum.
6 players MeLo:
The game either descends into 5 players ELo with one confirmed town or a 5 players 4:1 with a Desperado
4 players MeLo:
on random execute, chance to hit scum is 25%. With desperado, the chance to hit scum is

75%

!
3 players ELo:
scum hit chance is upped to 50%, from 33%.
Desperado is a role that needs to used carefully. If it is, however, it can greatly assist town. Announcing it before absolutely necessary is simply terrible play.

Didn't Read+L+Ratio

[koopashell]

I actually have a >60% winrate as both alignments in both vanilla-esque and role heavy setups, you should not try to lecture me thanks.

[koopashell]

VOTE: Save The Dragons6

[koopashell]

I think Save The Dragons is a wolf.

[koopashell]

UNVOTE:

Hopefully some kind of protective role exists, because I would very much like for you to be able to actually use that desperado if it's true. And if it's not true, that will indeed become self-evident.

VOTE: Not_Mafia
I would've expected at least SOMETHING from him by now

You expected wrong

[koopashell]

I actually lied. I think ShadowGirl is in my PoE too, I need to narrow it down a little.

[koopashell]

I feel as though i have too many villareads right now and not enough wolfreads - implying my nulls have wolves in them, such as STD.
A generous solve for me right now includes 2/4 of:
[Bulge, KDCA, Not Mafia, Save The Dragons]

I think Not Mafia is threadspewed villa - leaving me with a PoE of Bulge/KDCA/Save The Dragons/ShadowGirl.

Bulge is the most villagery of them, Save The Dragon the wolfiest.

[koopashell]

UNVOTE:

[koopashell]

If I had any doubt that you were a willager player, I have 0 doubts now.

[koopashell]

Unrelated to present discussion, but it occurs to me you may not know this and it's important...

Not_Mafia WILL hammer if you put someone to E-1, regardless of alignment. Please be careful when doing so

[koopashell]

God damn it I missed my chance

I wonder if that was intentional...
If std flips scum this one is next.

Based on what?

[koopashell]

God damn it I missed my chance

I wonder if that was intentional...
If std flips scum this one is next.

Based on what?

Not Mafia was obviously here, yet only reacted after a significant amount of time. If not mafia is scum with std intentional not hammering immediately is the only way for them to win, unless they survive.

Dude. I unvoted within 2 minutes.. are you ok?

[koopashell]

I think Gamma Emerald is incredibly villagery.

[koopashell]

VOTE: Not Known 15

Been thinking on it for a while, and that supposition that N_M not constantly refreshing the page to drop hammers in an instant was indicative of an StD/N_M scumteam... I don't like it, not one bit.

I villaread NK15 but I'll be honest, I don't mind if you distract him here with a vote.
Have fun, go wild.

[koopashell]

does an unvote count as game advancing content? hmmm uhhhh gamma seems town. ill do a proper catch up tonight

Hello wolf.

[koopashell]

VOTE: ShadowGirl
Not gonna lie, I wanna kill this.
I thought about this for a bit and this is the wolfiest slot in the game so far. I'll be happy to ellaborate on this when I'm not phoneposting.

[koopashell]

VOTE: ShadowGirl
Not gonna lie, I wanna kill this.
I thought about this for a bit and this is the wolfiest slot in the game so far. I'll be happy to ellaborate on this when I'm not phoneposting.

Can you please also elaborate on your strong Gamma townread, then?

I don't know if you haven't noticed but I'm not interacting with you anymore. I have found you as villa and I have no further use for you as a player who stubbornly won't listen to the logic I do have for gamma. I think Gamma is town and that will hold enough weight to prevent their elimination before LyLo

[koopashell]

I think Not Mafia is threadspewed villa - leaving me with a PoE of Bulge/KDCA/Save The Dragons/ShadowGirl.

Bulge is the most villagery of them, Save The Dragon the wolfiest.

What's given you town vibes for Not Mafia? I just currently don't see anything that's providing content/giving town vibes?

Also speaking of not reading posts did you even see this question or just chose not to answer it?

I don't see a possible pairing for Not Mafia here based on how people have interacted with him/around him.

[koopashell]

Sorry ShadowGirl, but I have trouble finding your post explaining your actions as genuine or as a villagery thought flow. I see that kind of explainations from wolves more often than not - and my claim was precisely aimed to elicit such reactions

[koopashell]

VOTE: Kcdaspot I would love to see some more content from this slot since there's only really been one post talking about their reads.

I have nothing to comment. this is the ickyest muckyist game that you have to dive like 4 layers deep to understand and im a stupid idiot whose reading comp scores took a nosedive after highschool

I cannot read any of the active posters to save a life.

This feels genuine.

[koopashell]

Sorry I will try to reduce the complexity.

Me villager, me think you villager.


Is that better?

[koopashell]

Willager = wolfsided villager

[koopashell]

And the fact you claimed to wolfread me has nothing to do with my read - it has everything to do with the thought processes you display around that read. There are people who voted me / expressed suspicion of me that I am villa reading. So please do not think you can frame the conversation that way/reduce it to that.
I thought the other people pushing me were genuine, and you were not. That is it.

[koopashell]

Is that what's important to you? Getting explanations from who is essentially clear here? Duly noted.

[koopashell]

Is that what's important to you? Getting explanations from who is essentially clear here? Duly noted.

Are you essentially clear? There's no actual proof of your claim yet. And despite the fact that you said that you weren't intending to coast that, that seems like what you're doing right now by having no intention of engaging with people. And yes, I would like to engage with you? Mafia is a game of discussion and we are meant to be working together as town??? I am trying to understand how you are possibly doing pro-town play in this moment.

I am voting a wolf, what's the issue?

[koopashell]

Is that what's important to you? Getting explanations from who is essentially clear here? Duly noted.

Is explaining your thoughts so that the rest of the Town might be able to get on the same page NOT what's important to you?

Obviously some things do require discretion, but "Why are you Townreading x" is a pretty standard question that shouldn't be a huge deal to answer...

I'm not here to hold people's hands though. I'm not going to support my statement unless it is in the face of a counter statement.

Stop pestering me.

[koopashell]

Voting the novice town desperado, who's flavor is literally the protagonist of the series of the game's flavor.
I see the lolcats have begun.

[koopashell]

It's ok because if we are both alive tomorrow I will simply blast you.

[koopashell]

It isn't wolfy for me to take a backseat and force people to interact with eachother when I have clearly stated my intended path

[koopashell]

There is no way that ShadowGirl is a townie who genuinely thinks that I would be a wolf here doing what I am doing. Even our resident willager Not Known 15 recognizes how absurd it would be for me to be a wolf here and would never let me reach end game unless I blasted a wolf day 2 with my desperado and somehow lived past that.
That is more evidence to why RR and NK15 reaction to my claim confirmed them as town while incriminated ShadowGirl, who thought they had monentum on my slot.

[koopashell]

Since I'm honestly not in the mood to do this.

I'm Phoenix Wright, a novice desperado.
Since my top villa read wants to be a willager I want to just take the pressure off. I'm not particularly a fan of roles like desperado, but at least I know I can be accurate with it.

Have fun.
If you think scum fakeclaim includes desperado, you're actaully trolling btw

whats a desperado?

Desperado = I shoot someone. If they are town, I die, and the other person lives. If they are mafia, I live and the other person dies.

[koopashell]

Voting the novice town desperado, who's flavor is literally the protagonist of the series of the game's flavor.
I see the lolcats have begun.

wait are you literally claiming PW?

did you claim before this post? i didnt see.

I softed game start, claimed a while back.
Can you read ShadowGirl iso for me and tell me what you think?

[koopashell]

I think Dragons and ShadowGirl have pretty high wolf equity myself.

[koopashell]

Does anyone actually villa read ShadowGirl?

[koopashell]

is that the same case for your NM vote?

no i pretty much tr everyone so by poe

Does anyone actually villa read ShadowGirl?

yes

At what point did you feel that she was town?

[koopashell]

The problem is if koopashell's Town, his claim is both easily confirmable and very powerful. Either he does tonight from the scumkill, or we eliminate him after he fails to actually deliver on his claim.

For now, it's better to leave it be.

If by powerful you mean swingy, sure.

[koopashell]

VOTE: ShadowGirl
I think this might be the play, I've been getting a sort of vibe that she's careful and calculated in a way that tends to keep me from suspecting people normally but is probably mafia indicative

Can you explain to me how I am being more careful and calculated than koopashell, whose only defense for the fact they don't have to give reads is they have a "cleared" claim, and who from the start of the Day the majority of their scumreads are focused on people that suspected them, and that they are going after me because I was the most comprehensive in actually quoting multiples of their posts which showed contradictions in their thinking?

I was townreading her, because her thought process made sense and was believable, but no the koopa vote's pretty bad in the current gamestate.

VOTE: ShadowGirl
E-2 I believe.

Koopashell hasn't quoted a single sentence out of any of my posts explaining what they feel is not genuine about my reads and they have also have zero intention of answering question from other players. I cannot see how this is not scum behaviour.

I mean, the things you're accusing koopashell of are not what I'd call "careful and calculated". The initial soft was very half-baked.

I would love to know what I have calculated this game.

[koopashell]

well the keyword for me to use in thread is "ACCUSE: [player]" but it does nothing on day 1

[koopashell]

What would save you is posting thoughts - particularly reads - with thought processes attached to them.
I do not think you add anything of value to the conversation and that feels intentional, and if you wish to help find you as a villager, you need to display a thought process consistent with being a villager, or explain reasoning for your thought process so far that goes beyond simple reactiveness.

In other news, Kdca's recent thoughtspew feels villagery in a way that shows they are acting in a way that is uninformed/not agenda driven. They have left my PoE and entered my villa reads.

[koopashell]

Not Known 15
Gamma Emerald
Kcdaspot
Radical Rat
Not_Mafia
___________
The Bulge
Save the Dragons
ShadowGirl

My current thoughts.

[koopashell]

The thing is, wolves receive fake claims so that is a weaker point. Albeit I find ShadowGirl a wolf for progression reasons.
A flavor soft is, frankly, nothing here, considering I have claimed what is arguably the only "clearing" flavor, unless the mod were to hate town

RadicalRat, how do you feel about ShadowGirl?

[koopashell]

-Role and flavor claims are allowed.

The mafia has a list of safe fake claims.

[koopashell]

Can you explain your NK15 scumread?

[koopashell]

Essentially I'd like you to case him - there's a sizable amount of content. Please do try to take into account that being wrong is not wolfy and I'm ok with you admitting that it was a faulty conclusion so long as you explain the original process.

[koopashell]

Wow this definitely adds value to your dayplay value.
Not.
Your claim means nothing.

[koopashell]

I don't think, despite the wrongness, that NK15 had shown a wolfy mindset this game. Perhaps overzealousness and overconfidence - but not wolfiness.
Anyone here have any experience with NK15 as wolf?

[koopashell]

Considering he's posted twice as much here than that game in less time, I'm not convinced.

[koopashell]

What does detective do?
I heavily doubt there is an ungated town investigative - sounds more like a fakeclaim for a rolecop.

[koopashell]

What shadowgirl is hoping for here is to relieve pressure on the basis of "can be proven later" to twist the gamestate to a more scum favorable one.
It's an unprovable role and should be treated as such, and the claim under duress without contributing dayplay is continued wolfiness - a claim intended to delay.
Instead of solving - ShadowGirl has hopped to appeasment of people on her wagon.

[koopashell]

Checks whether a player has committed a kill. Like a Gunsmith, but only works if they actually use the gun.

Sounds powerful in what is presumably a 2 mafia setup especially ungated - basically receives green checks on a d1 wolf flip.

My suspicion that host provided fakeclaims would be not that great is true :p

[koopashell]

I would have been less suspicious of ShadowGirl if they had claimed a vanilla role here - as their play up to now has not been consistent with a detective - what PR immediately beleives they are the only one? No, the explaination from the scum side makes more sense that a full claim was wished to be drawn out.

[koopashell]

what PR immediately beleives they are the only one?

Where was this said?

ShadowGirl claiming their first thought was that I was rolefishing - an absurdity.

[koopashell]

Oh I don't think she thought that.
I am merely explaining the absurdity of that world.

Regardless this is also 1 piece of a larger issue that ShadowGirl simply is not solving the game and merely using reactionary points to make pushes.

[koopashell]

Radical Rat, tell me why I shouldn't blast you right now.
I also did not expect to be alive at all.

[koopashell]

Why did you allow ShadowGirl to die there?
What were your thoughts there?

[koopashell]

Radical Rat, tell me why I shouldn't blast you right now.
I also did not expect to be alive at all.

It would be a waste of your life for one.

These kinds of answers are not dissuaders for me.

[koopashell]

So who is last wolf here?

[koopashell]

My role gives no indication of ending the day, but it may since the flavor for it is jail related just like the kills.
I'm still going to hold it until about half of the deadline so I can make an informed shot.

[koopashell]

if RR doesn't find me a better target, I'm using my ability on them most likely.

[koopashell]

KDCA is lock-villa territory for me for their play around Shadowgirl.

I am never considering Gamma or KDCA here.

Tell me why STD.

[koopashell]

Can you do a more detailed case on a person you think is wolf, RR?

[koopashell]

im really not sure

i am in favour of koopa shooting today, however

Youre on my list of potential targets.

[koopashell]

Ok then solve

[koopashell]

There's a flipped wolf and you're complaining about a game dying?
Are you too afraid to make waves?

[koopashell]

You basically hadn't posted at all at the time I posted that. What's terrible about it?

Who is wolf?

[koopashell]

I will holster out of spite if no one puts in any effort.
I refuse to potentially remove myself from the game and lose my influence. I will shoot a wagon that actually gets to E-1. Not Mafia, I can trust that you can at least resist hammering and allow me to use my ability - go wild on the wagon that comes after if I end up shooting wrong.

[koopashell]

Ok. This is easy

ACCUSE: Radical Rat

Good game everyone, see you in the post game chat whenever lendunistus checks the game.

[koopashell]

KDCA and Gamma are my locktown reads, Bulge probtown

[koopashell]

StD>Not Mafia probably wins if this is a miss

[koopashell]

https://objection.lol/objection/3644380

[koopashell]

Actually I take it back, I don't think Gamma is that towny and should be looked at in a 3 way situation much more closely if still alive.

[koopashell]

Reread Gamma's ISO and force them to do solving if I end up dying and Radical Rat is cleared.

Don't just go through StD.

StD, *please* actually try to defend yourself + do something. Flopping over will end up with town losing due to your elimination being generally low info.

[koopashell]

I think KDCA is never wolf here, and I think I'm coming around on The Bulge being a villager.

I don't think Not Mafia is wolf with ShadowGirl here.

Please respect my legacy townreads, thank you.

[koopashell]

I don't think Not Mafia is wolf with ShadowGirl here.

If this is just because of the hammer, that means nothing. If there's something else you saw, please elaborate while you still can

It is not and I am vetoing it as I know the mindset of the vast majority of players is to eliminate slots they are too lazy to read. Put some effort in, I don't care. You played this day in a very similar way ShadowGirl did, and I have no regrets in my shot. It wasn't a reaction test, this shot is 100% going through.

[koopashell]

If people used the ISO button a bit more often, town would win a lot more in general. My biggest threats to me when I am a wolf are people who actually bother to read people's ISOs and early days. Utilize that. Do not waste your resources.

If you think a gimmick account has to be policied because you aren't sure on other people, that is a skill issue as I guarantee in most cases that slot flips town.

[koopashell]

But frankly, I feel the game ends here because the way Radical Rat reacted feels more like a "I need to pass the reaction test just in case" kind of response rather than "Oh I'm clear now" kind of response.

[koopashell]

If you are town here alive, and we end up losing because of the lack of effort - that is on you for contributing to that, because every single one of you are doing jack shit and just sitting on your hands and yelling "oh woe is me". It's not effective play at all, and there's plenty to read.

We *literally* steamrolled a wolf on day 1 and we are immediately losing momentum? Am I playing a reverse mafia game where I am the only townie? Don't let wolves win after that amazing day 1 - Thank you.


I have thought some - and if RR is indeed a miss, Gamma needs to be the one *most* examined, as it makes sense in the sense of why I was left alive, as my role inherently accelerates the game.

[koopashell]

My own opinion is that it’s a fair call-out

Aye, until the added sentence in the post below.
That one is defensive and very image-conscious. That's scummy.

UNVOTE:
You…

Please explain this in detail.

I think Gamma Emerald is incredibly villagery.

That’s based on what?

VOTE: ShadowGirl
Not gonna lie, I wanna kill this.
I thought about this for a bit and this is the wolfiest slot in the game so far. I'll be happy to ellaborate on this when I'm not phoneposting.

Can you please also elaborate on your strong Gamma townread, then?

VOTE: ShadowGirl
Not gonna lie, I wanna kill this.
I thought about this for a bit and this is the wolfiest slot in the game so far. I'll be happy to ellaborate on this when I'm not phoneposting.

Can you please also elaborate on your strong Gamma townread, then?

I don't know if you haven't noticed but I'm not interacting with you anymore. I have found you as villa and I have no further use for you as a player who stubbornly won't listen to the logic I do have for gamma. I think Gamma is town and that will hold enough weight to prevent their elimination before LyLo

What if I survive to elo and vote gamma because you didn't elaborate?
@everyone else please ask koopa to explain the gamma read

[koopashell]

I did the ISOing for townies because I do not trust villagers to do what they are told by dead players.

Read and digest - Nightkilled players speak great truths more often than not.

I think Gamma should be the elimination here - and there should be no more PRs here with both RR and I being town, seeing as 2 self clearing roles are pretty strong already.

RR, next time, if you are Friendly Neighbor, choose your target with more critical thought, as going for the top townreads of the player who just buried a wolf is poor target selection, and you should have chosen someone like StD who was going to be alive regardless of alignment.

[koopashell]

Gamma > StD

Wins the game here.


Gamma probably just straight up wins. Starting to think RR is a miss more and Gamma world fits a lot better.

Gamma Emerald is incredibly subdued and has very little progression and the world where they see the writing on the wall. I also look at how they reacted to my daystart on day 1 and I see someone testing the waters for a push there.

From an informed point of view - it makes little sense for ShadowGirl to do what she did and then for StD to still soft defend the slot.

It really has to be either Gamma or Radical Rat here IMHO.

[koopashell]

Page 10 is very informative,

Does anyone actually villa read ShadowGirl?

tbh I want that elaborated myself
I'd say shadowgirl is leaning scum ever so slightly

VOTE: ShadowGirl
I think this might be the play, I've been getting a sort of vibe that she's careful and calculated in a way that tends to keep me from suspecting people normally but is probably mafia indicative

I was townreading her, because her thought process made sense and was believable, but no the koopa vote's pretty bad in the current gamestate.

VOTE: ShadowGirl
E-2 I believe.

In a RR town world, the RR vote puts Gamma in a position where as scum, a distancing vote is not easily removed after that. I do not think Gamma as wolf would believe that the vote would go through perhaps?

[koopashell]

Yeah once the ShadowGirl wagon gained a lot of momentum Gamma was just plainly ... Not Present. (Neither was StD too)

[koopashell]

I ask people to reread pages 10-13, with the knowledge of alignments.

As well as rereading everyone's ISOs.

Again I implore to remember that being wrong =/= wolf, and that if you find something questionable, try to ask questions like "what made you think this?", which is more effective. If the person doesn't give anything substantive enough, press the point, etc. It is the most effective way to scumhunt in the lategame, and should guarantee a town win here if implemented.

[koopashell]

I want bulge to explain their read progression over the course of the game.

(everyone should but especially bulge)

I'm shifting stuff around - Gamma -> Bulge is my current answer.

I'm assuming wolves are forced to kill here, so if we miss here, sleep->3 way will be illuminating in terms of nightkills.

[koopashell]

unlucky town flop