Open 854 | Eurybia's Curse | Game Over!

[Faker]

Faker what do you think skitter is

I do not know and do not thinking finding out is a priority.

[Isis]

If she's scum and we know it we win

[Faker]

Damn, I missed that part of the setup.

The implication is that I think it is a better use of my time to revisit the game from scratch, with a particular eye for interactions, as alluded to in 3154. I know that waiting for that can be annoying.

I am more confident in my ability to read marcistar/Meuh than I am guessing whether or not skitter's persistent oversights & obtuse assertions are in bad faith. Half of me cutting that dialogue off was because I thought it would do the rest of the table zero good to hear me continue waxing on a great ode to myself, the other half because I thought it offered my own perspective zero value.

[Faker]

Perhaps I should be a little bit more tactful and less acerbic.

I can play 20 questions all day as scum. I'm a chat mafia player who excels at real-time spitballing, tonal blitzing/strongarming, and this is especially true when I am functionally unconstrained by prior events. I also do not mind being dismissed as an ineffectual voice as scum by virtue of my own ignorance.

In contrast, as town I absolutely hate that shit, I hate nonsensical circlerunning in the vein of the skitter argument, and you're both getting acerbic reactions and stonewalling because of it. I don't like splitting my attention, I don't like rehashing variants of things I've said ten times before, I don't enjoy making a sixth restatement or quoting repeatedly, and I rapidly get very annoyed.

In your mind perhaps you think pressuring me to interact with what is immediately on the page is liable to force something out of me as scum, or think that I would provide more reads of value as town if you prodded me more.

If either of those are in your thinking, you should know that both of these are flat-out untrue. If you're impatient go pressure one of the other slots, I don't want to read today and if I get tilted out of my mind at you and skitter I'm not going to want to tomorrow either.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm rereading the early game and looking at how people are interacting with conftownies and confscum Pav, I'm probably gonna quote/reference some things that were already brought up sorry in advance

VOTE: Meuh good call tbh, fast and loose is a much better play than slow and steady

Of the Meuh votes I like this one the least

(See? I don't have to make jokes, I could have said this one is the worst)

like, Meuh says she thinks Beat is town, thinks you're town and has no issue with your push on Beat

says she thinks Isis is town, has no issue with Cakez vote on Isis and actually grills me for calling it out

this is the behavior I'm pointing to when I say Meuh is looking more to make buddies than find scum, usually townies are at least somewhat suspicious of people voting and casing their townreads

I think of posts like this and I think this is good analysis of Meuh

But then

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Not engaging with my response to GL’s argument at all, not asking me any questions to try sorting me, just echoing what’s already been said.
You have more experience playing with me (and a more accurate history of reading me) than GL and you’ve already seen Marci’s D1 tonal reads on me be very wrong.
The fact you’re willing to just go along with this push and rely on Marci/GL would be more understandable if we had never played together.
But here, I think it’s pretty telling.

I think this is fair and I sense there may be opportunism in the Meuh votes so I'm gonna trust my gut for the moment and see where this goes

VOTE: Gamma

I'm not familiar with how Pav plays scum but in a surface-take world this feels like an attempt to push back against the Meuh wagon, light distancing with her in agreeing with me about Meuh but then implying all the votes on her are bad and saying there "may be opportunism in the Meuh votes"

like if Meuh is town what's the point of this? Pocketing her?

I could maybe see it in a scum!Gamma world to try to lay the foundation for some Real Distancing, but I do agree with Ari that Gamma's blow up at Pav later in the game feels very anti-partnery so right now I'm trying to look at things through a lens of Gamma-town currently

[GuiltyLion]

[5] Gamma Emerald:

Beat

,

Aristeia

, Meuh,

Pavowski

, SirCakez

then again I do feel like generally scum don't clump together on early game wagons like this, it makes it hard to be flexible later, and the fact that Gamma wagon died quickly after and then came back and died

again

later on D1 feels like scum didn't intend to push it hard for a D1 miselim

[Isis]

I'm trying to proxy read skitter and not throw lol

[marcistar]

lions give me 2 ppl to iso

[marcistar]

oh nvm is he even still here..

[Aristeia]

Marci what's your read on Meuh rn?

[marcistar]

idk her today posts felt like she had a plan but im not too sure abt that cuz i havent thought too deeply on it

[GuiltyLion]

sorry I got distracted with a break for a j

lions give me 2 ppl to iso

Meuh + Skitter

especially what you think of Meuh's attitude of "lim through the Beat wagon and we win"

[GuiltyLion]

I dont really see any reason Pav should be scumread at this point and it makes me wary of the motion in that direction.
VOTE: Meuh

Like this feels like how scum would defend their partner

-Through scumreading a third party

-While not actively stating they think their partner is town

Especially how much this setup make red flips bad for the scumteam

kinda early/convenient to be making partner reads?

of course there's context in that Meuh was voting Pav earlier, and I know that other people have speculated about Pav and potential Pav partners throughout the game, but something in this post kinda feels a little too aware about Pav's flip being red, especially when Meuh wasn't even voting Pav anymore here

[GuiltyLion]

fruits prob town

like in the way of, i dont think his scumbuddies would leave him this clueless

aah I forgot about how much I liked this read

I generally don't see scum preemptively WK really super limbaity townies. Like no one was seriously pushing Fruit all that much, but he just posted something fairly classically newb-scummy, and marci almost immediately goes for a townread instead

I think scum are really averse to doing that because they wanna keep miselim options open, even if they don't plan to push it themselves I feel scum!marci could just stay silent here and assess how townies react to his posts before deciding on what her angle would be

[GuiltyLion]

[3] SirCakez:

GuiltyLion

, Meuh,

Isis

[3] Meuh: Gamma Emerald, the worst,

Beat

GL half-ass VCA

probably one of these wagons is on scum, if both were town I feel like one of them would have lasted longer instead of Gamma/Beat springing back up

[Meuh]

"lim through the Beat wagon and we win"

I stand by this, though at this point Skitter flips scum more often than Marci or Faker do as individuals imo.

Pedit: why did the wagon on the townie not gain momentum then, instead of a brand new wagon forming?
If scum!Cakez is true I would expect the wagon on me to have gained momentum there but idk

[Meuh]

Cakez just seems so devoid of any agenda or opportunism to me and I don’t really recall seeing a single convincing argument for him being scum

[skitter30]

Maybe meuh/marci

[Meuh]

One day that’ll happen and it will be incredible

[Meuh]

Okay so I took a shower and thought about stuff

So Skitter’s play today feels terrible. But I feel like I haven’t properly taken the setup or what the mafia actually need to accomplish into account?
Like I’ve been practically thinking of this day just as “maf need to get a mislim and they win” and while I always knew that was inaccurate it’s not something I questioned extensively
So like, the mafia to both escape and it’s gg.
In this respect Skitter’s play isn’t really sustainable ig? Like it doesn’t help her long term even if she gets me mislimmed

Tbh I forgot about escaping as a mechanic when analyzing people’s play as of late
But like the scummiest mafia member can just… leave.
So now I feel as if there’s likely going to be 1 mafia assigned to 1 role, and one to the other. Both because of the escaping mechanic and the tougher limpool tomorrow (1/4 instead of 2/6), there’s likely gonna be a harsh push from one mafia to just get a townie straight out of here, then they just escape

and then the plan for day 2 is just for the second one to hide in a crowd of less ostentatious players and live?
But if that’s the angle the mafia are playing for I’m not really sure how to look at people’s play today
Like whatever the mafia’s trying to do with who they want to escape now or later it’s tough to actually consider fully

So my mind’s clearer on what scum are actually aiming for here and what to look for but also who the scum are is less clear ???
This gamestate just feels really tough to gauge who’s scum and who’s town in
So ig I should look more back on d1/d2 to parse scum?
Blegh

[SirCakez]

None of the townreads with her come with reasoning iirc (in most recent memory was cakez who rarely provides reasoning so idk)

I just think Skitter exhibits a different tone and play style as scum that I have not seen here. And she's attacked a lot more as town bc scum like to mislim her

[SirCakez]

I liked Fakers entrance and I was kinda pulling back on Gamma already before she left so I'm at Marci/Meuh right now

[SirCakez]

I don't leash myself to Gamma Emerald's posting ever because I strongly believe that he literally does not know how to play the game. I have a 5 year record of believing this, and skitter witnessed it firsthand in Slaughter Hour.

For further context, in something like 9/10 games of opposing alignments, I had a 100% record on reading Gamma

on Day 1

and a 100% record on getting him to townread me as scum.

His scum posting was so bad in one Micro that it instantly flipped my read on my (wrong) strongest TR to my strongest SR, which won the game outright. I flagged for him that he had a bad habit of putting his entire mafiateam in the scumpile across a good 4/5 games and he proceeded to do it again for another two. In Slaughter Hour, he had to force me out of the game and make a public display of breaking the "No outside communication" rule to salvage his slot.

People misread him, it does happen, and I especially know that some people unfamiliar with him get baited by his tone into miselimming him. Do I ever in a million years count on players reading scum-Gamma as town? Not in a million years.

This is just a townpost

[Coral]

Okay so I took a shower and thought about stuff

So Skitter’s play today feels terrible. But I feel like I haven’t properly taken the setup or what the mafia actually need to accomplish into account?
Like I’ve been practically thinking of this day just as “maf need to get a mislim and they win” and while I always knew that was inaccurate it’s not something I questioned extensively
So like, the mafia to both escape and it’s gg.
In this respect Skitter’s play isn’t really sustainable ig? Like it doesn’t help her long term even if she gets me mislimmed

Tbh I forgot about escaping as a mechanic when analyzing people’s play as of late
But like the scummiest mafia member can just… leave.
So now I feel as if there’s likely going to be 1 mafia assigned to 1 role, and one to the other. Both because of the escaping mechanic and the tougher limpool tomorrow (1/4 instead of 2/6), there’s likely gonna be a harsh push from one mafia to just get a townie straight out of here, then they just escape

and then the plan for day 2 is just for the second one to hide in a crowd of less ostentatious players and live?
But if that’s the angle the mafia are playing for I’m not really sure how to look at people’s play today
Like whatever the mafia’s trying to do with who they want to escape now or later it’s tough to actually consider fully

So my mind’s clearer on what scum are actually aiming for here and what to look for but also who the scum are is less clear ???
This gamestate just feels really tough to gauge who’s scum and who’s town in
So ig I should look more back on d1/d2 to parse scum?
Blegh

I'm not really following your train of thought here. If skitter is scum and you're town, then skitter can push for your elim and then escape. That accomplishes her goal and does help her long term. It does depend who her partner is if that would be the strategy they would likely go for, but I think it's possible.

It sounds here like you're saying her play looks surface level scummy to you, but based on setup considerations, it's not as likely to come from scum. I don't see what's bringing you to that conclusion, though.

[Aristeia]

@Meuh what's your read on Marci rn?