House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Enchant]

Prince of Dragonstone: unwnd
Hand of the King: Datisi
Lord Commander of the Kingsguard: Andresvmb
Master of Coin: Firebringer
Master of Laws: Andante
Master of Whisperers/Grand Maester: Mathblade

There's only 4 council members alive. Every player can't hold more than two roles. So if you can:

Don't give Master of Whisperers to anyone

. At this point you forced to grant Grand Maester (too important). If you also grant Master of Whisperers, then there will be two players with two PRs. And they could't replace if someone else die.

Atleast i don't think you can revoke someone power without killing them. Tsk...

[Enchant]

Asked some questions to mod:
1. Prince can receive PRs.
2. Prince WILL keep them after becoming king.
3. It's not known if overthrowing monarchy and choosing new king will allow to hire new council members.
4. King can't give PRs to self.


So i dunno guys, i think we need to give Grand Maester to trustworthy Prince, so after king die we will get undying Doctor.

Of course we need trustworthy prince. VOTE: unwnd

[Firebringer]

prince keeps roles when becomes king? Thats crazy.

[Enchant]

Of course, you need to ask if you can actually target king and give him money.

[Firebringer]

i was thinking of throwing a coin at everyone in the council and testing them at one point to see if anyone would lie but then i was like...why would they lie they know how much i gave them.

[GuiltyLion]

Aite y'all, it's time for the

GL Post on Why Roden's Assessment Of His Town Meta is Bad, Actually

to be helpful I have broken this down into three distinct sections. Posts where I am angry about being voted and snarky and salty in return (sec 1), posts where I am talking about how I scumread people voting me or emoting at people to sheep my reads after I'm flipped (sec 2), and posts where I am Color Coding Things Because It Is Cool, Impactful, and Fun and Absolutely Not Alignment Indicative (sec 3). I hope you'll also forgive me that some of these examples date back years, it is hard to find perfectly analogous posts in every game and I've only played one game at a time for the better part of 1-2 years now

Section 1 - General Salt/Frustration At Being Scumread For Stupid Reasons

Diffusion of Power
me getting riled up in response to implosion voting me
next post a literal OMGUS
I then continue to go on and on and on

Holiday Dance Party
got a ton of blowback/suspicion for this post where I was ~ reactive ~ to LLD casing me
not sure if it's a perfect fit for this section, but hey, it's me calling a town stupid if they don't listen to me on my townreads!

Section 2 - Scumreading Votes On Me, and/or Demanding that I'm sheeped if I'm limmed

This section was hard to find perfect examples I didn't already include in the first section, because it is rare that I go straight into an OMGUS. But then again, I didn't actually do that this game either, as has already been exhaustively covered in my prior back and forth with Roden.

City that Never Sleeps
This is not a perfect example, but I think it is interesting - me saying I'm 'fussy' about scumreads on me as town

Guns & Roses 3
another example of me making the case that I'm a lot more reactive and sensitive to votes on me as

town

than as scum

Newbie 1965
I like this one "This may be self-centered but it's also honestly kinda impossible for me to grok how someone could look at the body of work and content I've produced this game in contrast to Titus and come away thinking I'm more likely to be scum. Like to the point where it almost singlehandedly makes me scumread you."
from the same game, "Rise, if you vote GBJ at any point this game I am going to be salty with you postgame. Warning you now "
even better, I am sure this post (click me!!) should qualify as "AtE" much in exact same vein, if not more extreme, as my "AtE" this game.

Section 3 - Color Coding Things Because It Is Cool, Impactful, and Fun and Absolutely Not Alignment Indicative

mmm look at me using nice and fancy red font
hey, another post with big fancy red font
ooh, busting out the green for this one
green font for emphasis

BONUS EXTRA FUN SECTION ON LUKEWARM

So I was rereading Shakespeare and I found a post where I called Luke out for feeling "surface-level", damn it's almost kinda... exactly like my exact same problem with him this game.

And look, I found another post from another game where Luke and I clashed as T/T and I called him surface-level. it's actually kinda funny how this has happened in three games now.

(sorry Luke I promise to get you right the next time we're T-T together)

I'm gonna stop here because it's late and I'm tired and I don't actually have quite as many examples yet from the first page or so of my completed games, it is hard because roughly half my games I don't get significantly cased/suspected at all so these situations don't come up. I am willing to continue this exercise going back further in my history if Roden is still not convinced but otherwise I am hopeful that this is at least enough of a few data points to get him to realize I am perfectly capable of being salty and reactive to votes and wagons on me as town, yelling at people to sheep me when I'm dead, and I also have posts describing my own town game saying explicitly as much, and that yes, I sometimes color code my posts.

[GuiltyLion]

Aite y'all, it's time for the

GL Post on Why Roden's Assessment Of His Town Meta is Bad, Actually

to be helpful I have broken this down into three distinct sections. Posts where I am angry about being voted and snarky and salty in return (sec 1), posts where I am talking about how I scumread people voting me or emoting at people to sheep my reads after I'm flipped (sec 2), and posts where I am Color Coding Things Because It Is Cool, Impactful, and Fun and Absolutely Not Alignment Indicative (sec 3). I hope you'll also forgive me that some of these examples date back years, it is hard to find perfectly analogous posts in every game and I've only played one game at a time for the better part of 1-2 years now

Section 1 - General Salt/Frustration At Being Scumread For Stupid Reasons

Diffusion of Power
me getting riled up in response to implosion voting me
next post a literal OMGUS
I then continue to go on and on and on

Holiday Dance Party
got a ton of blowback/suspicion for this post where I was ~ reactive ~ to LLD casing me
not sure if it's a perfect fit for this section, but hey, it's me calling a town stupid if they don't listen to me on my townreads!

Section 2 - Scumreading Votes On Me, and/or Demanding that I'm sheeped if I'm limmed

This section was hard to find perfect examples I didn't already include in the first section, because it is rare that I go straight into an OMGUS. But then again, I didn't actually do that this game either, as has already been exhaustively covered in my prior back and forth with Roden.

City that Never Sleeps
This is not a perfect example, but I think it is interesting - me saying I'm 'fussy' about scumreads on me as town

Guns & Roses 3
another example of me making the case that I'm a lot more reactive and sensitive to votes on me as

town

than as scum

Newbie 1965
I like this one "This may be self-centered but it's also honestly kinda impossible for me to grok how someone could look at the body of work and content I've produced this game in contrast to Titus and come away thinking I'm more likely to be scum. Like to the point where it almost singlehandedly makes me scumread you."
from the same game, "Rise, if you vote GBJ at any point this game I am going to be salty with you postgame. Warning you now "
even better, I am sure this post (click me!!) should qualify as "AtE" much in exact same vein, if not more extreme, as my "AtE" this game.

Section 3 - Color Coding Things Because It Is Cool, Impactful, and Fun and Absolutely Not Alignment Indicative

mmm look at me using nice and fancy red font
hey, another post with big fancy red font
ooh, busting out the green for this one
green font for emphasis

BONUS EXTRA FUN SECTION ON LUKEWARM

So I was rereading Shakespeare and I found a post where I called Luke out for feeling "surface-level", damn it's almost kinda... exactly like my exact same problem with him this game.

And look, I found another post from another game where Luke and I clashed as T/T and I called him surface-level. it's actually kinda funny how this has happened in three games now.

(sorry Luke I promise to get you right the next time we're T-T together)

I'm gonna stop here because it's late and I'm tired and I don't actually have quite as many examples yet from the first page or so of my completed games, it is hard because roughly half my games I don't get significantly cased/suspected at all so these situations don't come up. I am willing to continue this exercise going back further in my history if Roden is still not convinced but otherwise I am hopeful that this is at least enough of a few data points to get him to realize I am perfectly capable of being salty and reactive to votes and wagons on me as town, yelling at people to sheep me when I'm dead, and I also have posts describing my own town game saying explicitly as much, and that yes, I sometimes color code my posts.

[GuiltyLion]

Asked some questions to mod:
1. Prince can receive PRs.
2. Prince WILL keep them after becoming king.
3. It's not known if overthrowing monarchy and choosing new king will allow to hire new council members.
4. King can't give PRs to self.


So i dunno guys, i think we need to give Grand Maester to trustworthy Prince, so after king die we will get undying Doctor.

Of course we need trustworthy prince. VOTE: unwnd

look I know Shea says he doesn't trust Mastina's reads and I certainly think Mastina is scum!MVP so far this game, but is there really any mechanical argument against making Mastina Prince and dumping all the roles on her? Like how is that not just the best case scenario for town, mastina will eventually get her head out of her tunnels and find scum even if she has to burn/waste some eliminations on town to do it

[Firebringer]

I certainly think Mastina is scum!MVP so far this game

u made the argument here

[Enchant]

Asked some questions to mod:
1. Prince can receive PRs.
2. Prince WILL keep them after becoming king.
3. It's not known if overthrowing monarchy and choosing new king will allow to hire new council members.
4. King can't give PRs to self.


So i dunno guys, i think we need to give Grand Maester to trustworthy Prince, so after king die we will get undying Doctor.

Of course we need trustworthy prince. VOTE: unwnd

look I know Shea says he doesn't trust Mastina's reads and I certainly think Mastina is scum!MVP so far this game, but is there really any mechanical argument against making Mastina Prince and dumping all the roles on her? Like how is that not just the best case scenario for town, mastina will eventually get her head out of her tunnels and find scum even if she has to burn/waste some eliminations on town to do it

hmmm

Fine?

No really not sarcastic, let's put Mastina at Prince.

[GuiltyLion]

I been skimming along but I need to work today so will respond to more later, wanted to jump in on that Dann post because that's easy to respond to without doing more rereading. I don't really get where all of the Junko support came from all of the sudden and want to spend time thinking about the votes there

I'm also maybe waffling on Lukewarm, I'm wondering if we just have major playstyle friction. I agree with everything TSQ just pointed out about his Titus read, it's the same issues I had with his LLD read, but I'm wondering if Luke kinda just... actually thinks like that? He had one post about how people read "confidence" into his reads that he doesn't feel is there which kinda resonated with me, it reminds me of similar issues I've had with Roden and S_S to a lesser degree, where I just chronically scumread the way they think about the game and what they decide to post and how they arrive at reads.

I saw VPB request that I do a reread of KTANE where I remember scumreading Luke, I'll try to do that as well as Shakespeare cause I feel like I vaguely remember Luke being Townie in Shakespeare. add it to the pile of meta homework

I was trying to find something in GL's ISO and saw this...what are you possibly referring to here? We only had two other games together and we were Masons in one of them.

viewtopic.php?t=88281&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Is this the game you're talking about??

yah. it's something about your writing/thinking style, it just doesn't jibe with me. little did I know that you would replace into this game and now I have to deal with Lukewarm v2 if you're actually town here and making garbage posts/arguments like 3310. Speaking of that, did you actually explicitly reply to my 3318, I would appreciate if you addressed that and clarified what exactly your argument is at it relates to the claims:
a) I scumread/OMGUS'd everyone who suspected me (3230)
b) when I challenged this assertion, your evidence/posts that you pulled up on Drapion and Andres slots does not apply because they are either not scumreads or not OMGUS

[GuiltyLion]

But basically it shows that GL voted off of Dwlee as an Enchant wagon was building and then when Maria wagon was building they also joined onto that and ended up causing Dwlee and Maria to be tied in votes.

you're not considering the context where Shea was making it clear he townread Dwlee, I was campaigning in the Supporter PT to lim Dwlee and getting no traction, so I started shopping for alternate wagons amongst other slots I didn't townread at a certain point because I felt the Dwlee wagon wasn't ultimately going to go anywhere.

You also are ignoring or forgetting 2294 where after MariaR replaces in and I find her town, I come

back

to Dwlee to advocate for limming them yet again another time.

[GuiltyLion]

I like Dann's re-entry into the game, especially his Titus read and overall theories and views. Makes me feel a lot better about him again.

[Datisi]

okay, i am home, i have coffee, time to properly read what y'all been up to

GL's response to my last post was really bad. It was just full of snipes at me and him making it clear how badly he wants to scum read me even though

he knows it doesn't actually make any sense for me to be scum here

. He's had a pretty consistent pattern of attacking and threatening anyone who suspects him all game, it doesn't really match up with his past town games.

i think the bolded part is scummy. it shows a sense of false confidence + misunderstandings of gamestate that i think comes from scum trying to make their stances be taken well while they know what they're saying is wrong. roden has done this a couple of times this game. in 2828, where he says that dwlee isn't in antispew. shutting up and fucking off from the game is about exactly what dwlee was doing there. read their iso close to that and tell me they weren't.

(sidenote, i think this behaviour is even more scum now that we know mastina is town and dwlee is scum - scum would want to give support to mastina but hide behind her.)

i already wrote about his case on gl making no sense to me, but like. i feel like it was designed as mud-flinging that he then had to walk back from. the "gl was afraid luke was gonna see through him" (2853) doesn't make sense. i get the argument roden's trying to make is that gl tried to "manipulate" luke with the "keep trying to case me", but like in what world is that something that scum does to get someone to back off or townread them? it doesn't make "intuitive" sense from town (so why would scum bother faking it). the backtracking in 2967 about the mason-game point feels similar.

Pretty obviously not scum by play but I'm used to people making bad reads on me for things that don't make sense at this point.

i don't see how town-roden here thinks that he is "very obviously not scum by play". he replaced into a scummy slot, he defended scum, he tried a counterwagon to what is very likely town, 90% of his contribution is shading another very likely town... what is obvtown about him here?

i know townies sometimes percieve themselves to be more townie than they really are. but like, i genuinely do not believe that town roden actually believes he should be townread by anyone here. from what i see, the main crux of his obvtown argument is 3339, which boils down to "scum-me wouldn't play this bad". i have used that

exact

line as scum so so many times. it's repeating the same thing over and over and hoping that other people believe it just because you keep saying it. but it doesn't make it true. nobody should buy that argument.

roden can say that my case on him doesn't make sense, but multiple people have expressed a scumread on him. we can't all be scum. hell, he said he townreads me.

to respond to 3356 while i'm at it - i checked mastina because she was very loud in defending dwlee and i thought it would make sense for scum in this gamestate to loudly defend dwlee. also i know mastina can have very good reads as town, and i still have hope that we'll be able to see that happen.

[Datisi]

i wonder if there is a post by dwlee in the scum pt that says "okay i'll intentionally not vote gl while he's my counterwagon so that you can still maybe get him killed on the basis of that"

also i think stuff from guiltylion - like the "i felt like i had no control of the game" - makes perfect sense because that was also the feeling i was getting around reading that part of the game. and the colour coding thing is like. dude lmao are you serious.

same feeling while i'm reading 3310. i cannot imagine town-roden, with a straight face, telling me that those quotes he pulled up are shading andres or wanting drapion dead. it's like, taking the absolutely most uncharitable explanation that is very clearly not intended and that anyone with a bit of awareness on the game can see.

got to dann's big post and i gotta go peel potatoes, be back soon

[Datisi]

i think the thing that most confuses me about dannflor's post/case here is that he spent a lot of time writing out associates with lld and the wagons, but very little writing out why lld is actually scum. the reasoning for her mechanical analysis being lamist and the weirdness in pushing unowen is *fine*, but i don't think it makes for a read he feels so strongly about. he said himself he's gonna explain those reads later, but why not explain it now?

bleh, as i type this, i'm less sure it's scummy, but i don't get it

other than why is unowen scum (which i already asked about in the supporters pt but might as well answer here), i don't get what makes titus scummy. she's been coasty and she voted dwlee, but i feel like scum does one or the other, not both. well, experienced scum does, which titus is.

---

3370 makes me wanna kashoot myself

gl voted dwlee after that and why would scum-gl who's busing jump from the bus onto the very uncertain cw on enchant and just WHY

---

I like Dann's re-entry into the game,

especially his Titus read

and overall theories and views. Makes me feel a lot better about him again.

that's the part i liked the least... you think titus is likely scum here?

[mastina]

Mastina are u making shit up.
I don't even remember rhae had a read

It was there. Very clearly.

So much snow. If you need help LMK

If I needed help I wouldn't have been able to contact you.

It was that bad.

Thankfully mostly melted, but like. Is 5 am, not gonna see much from me tonight.

come on. this is the SECOND HARDEST PUSHER of dwlee.

As a matter of fact, yes.

That says something about the strength of the push on Dwlee, now, doesn't it?

Rhaenyra was the second-hardest pusher.

And the content you see is what constitutes second-hardest.
Because literally nobody else was pushing harder than her except Datisi.

Maybe because...oh, y'know.

Dwlee had 3-4 scumbuddies bussing them?

Just a thought.

[mastina]

VOTE: LLD

I really don't have the energy/time/lucidity to explain (see also, is 5 am, I was literally thinking of going straight to bed once Starlight left my lap but figured I should post since I'm able to now), but like:

This post never comes from a town-Dann ever and I wish I could explain it to y'all now.

At least it clears up any doubts I had about LLD!

(LLD is not scum with Dann, Dann is definitely scum, soooooooooooooo...)

[mastina]

I had 0 presence on day 2 and prod dodged my way through the whole fucking day. Ascribing any intent to me yesterday is fucking impossible.

You don't think it's scummy to prod dodge through a day that was 80% likely to end in a scum yeet and then brag about how you have no associatives?

Scummy? Yes.

Actually alignment-indicative?

No.

[VP Baltar]

I have theory about what mafia doing.

They kill useless townie councils (tracker) to notdirectly harm powerful PRs in future, without risking wasting attack on real Cop (unless he is scum). Afterwards when they manage to kill Cop, there will be no one to replace him.

There was also risk of doc protect the first two nights if we are assuming town FB...which seems a stretch, but still.

[VP Baltar]

The roden!scum case is compelling.

I did enjoy how awkward roden and Johnny kept acting after I suggested they challenge each other. And now Johnny has disappeared from the game again.

[mastina]

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS
INTERJET YOU PIECE OF SHIT
WHY THR FUCK ARE YOUBGOING DOWN AT FIVE FORTY FIVE FUCKING RANDOMLYBAS SHIT

I KNOW THAT I NEEDED TO GO TO BE ANYWAY BUT I WANTED ITBON MY TERMS NOT FUCKINGBYOUS.

I ALREADLY LOST THREE FUCKING DAYS IF NOT MORE TO THIS SHITTH AS SNOWSNORM AND LITERALLY JUST TOLD LLDBTHST IT WAS GETTING BETTER AND THEM YOY GOTTA FUCKING PROVE ME WRONG BY DOING THIS SHITTH ASS DOWNAGE AND I AM FUCKING DICK OF YOU RUINING MY LIFE BY REMOVING MY LINKS TO MY LIFELIBES.

[ProfessorDrapion]

Don’t bother Mastina.
I already spoken previously with concern about VP and that he talks shit somewhere or starts manipulating but decides “I don’t fucking need to respond cause I’m super man” @VP Balter you’re not!

Also GL remember day 1 was the person who voted off Dwlee, onto Enchant and then Maria

REMEMBER THIS!

[Datisi]

mastina, is everything ok

[Datisi]

@drapion can you please answer my question on why you changed your mind on roden and johnny

like if you're town you are gonna need to cooperate with us