House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[furtiveglance]

datisi I know you saw this because you posted in small council. What are your thoughts on this?

how

rude

i have skimmed, and by skimmed i mean *heavily* skimmed. i don't intend to fight my yeet too hard because i understand whoever wants my death is just gonna be parroting the mechanical argument ad nauseam. but i do sense that there is very strong scum motivation to getting me yeeted, and i intend to reread those pushing for it to try to leave y'all in a better position after i die. i will get to doing that in a lil' bit, about to eat dinner

Datisi, if you are indeed town, I apologise for the inconvenience, but can you not see the advantage that even your town flip would give us, with 3 confirmed town?

[UNOwen]

On phone only for next few days

Haven’t given the back and forth too much thought but I agree with the logic of executing Datisi sooner rather than later, the “give him one more day” argument seems to only be guaranteed at least neutral if we don’t execute today, which I don’t think is desirable. Because it’s boring.

[GuiltyLion]

I also really need someone to explain to me like I'm 5 how/why four scum supported Shea as king but then somehow didn't get onto the council in a town!Datisi world.

a somewhat minor point on this I feel compelled to share for people like FB, fireisred, yourself:

Others who have access to the Supporters PT can attest that my main campaign in the supporters PT when Shea was deciding on council picks was Junko off, VPB on. I obviously said I'd support myself on council as a throwaway comment but I was clear that the main person who I wanted on who wasn't being considered was VPB.

so if people are thinking I may have been scum in this zone of "vote Shea for King to pocket, then try to get on council but failed to do so", there is pretty clear evidence in that PT that I was pushing for another flipped townie to be on the council instead of myself, which should poke a hole in that argument/idea. and if my partners are some assortment of furtive/UNOwen/Enchant/Drapion, I didn't lobby for any of them on the council significantly at all - think I had a grand total of one post where I said UNOwen was fine as a council pick when Shea gave an argument for it.

[GuiltyLion]

i am obviously protected.

but if you get yeeted then Titus is obviously protected, and further

cannot

be limmed because she'd be confirmed town by your flip

[GuiltyLion]

like, say Datisi is town, why wouldn't scum continue to push you as we get closer and closer to ELO? wouldn't your misyeet be

even worse

at 9p or 7p? you absolutely cannot live until endgame if we don't flip more scum soon.

there would be an argument for keeping Datisi alive if we couldn't just assign his cop powers to somebody else, if the role died with him. but given we can just have replacement cop and two possible slots for either flip that are either conftown (Titus) or pretty damn close to obvtown (fireisred), misyeeting Datisi costs us basically nothing. it doesn't lose us a cop check.

and the scenario where Datisi is scum and fakes a guilty tomorrow becomes dangerous very quickly.

[fireisredsir]

what was scummy about it?

i think you would be more engaged with the conversation of the pros and cons of this, and either sorting out where the scum are that are pushing for this and why, or just generally leaving a legacy

i feel like as scum this turn would be somewhat unapproachable for you and you have felt like you haven't really wanted to engage (ik, exams and stuff, but still)

it seems like you are being kinda selective in your focus and your comments in the council thread since things started turning in this direction felt kinda limp

[Datisi]

up until my irl-today, the conversation was "we need to flip datisi at like, some point before yeetlo probs", which is something i explicitly agreed with in thread

then i wake up and suddenly there's a shit ton of pages of people in front of my house with pitchforks, with the timing being really awkward for me because of irl things you are mostly aware of

as i said, i'm getting to it. you know i don't lurk as scum so i don't see what you're trying to argue here

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think anyone is claiming you're lurking.

[Datisi]

it feels like it boils down to it

they voted me around 6pm my time

from my last posting in this thread to their vote change, the only post i made was this post in the council pt at around 7am

i skimmed the thread

i am starting to think gl is the scum who was waiting to jump behind someone else pushing me

i thought (and still think) his jump onto me has been very weird and potentially doesn't track with his thought process, but in order to verify that i have to actually sit down and read the thread properly, something i didn't have an opportunity to do until now. fire knows this - where am i being limp, exactly? because i don't wanna make arguments when i can't check them?

i don't feel like arguing mech. it is obvious what my thoughts are and nobody is going to actually take them into consideration because they're coming from my own slot

[fireisredsir]

fair i guess, it felt like it had been longer. i've been thinking about it for a couple days but maybe it wasn't as pressing of an issue in the thread until recently

[fireisredsir]

yea checking timestamps now, the last 24 hours have felt like 72 to me, my bad on that i guess

and i wasn't saying you were lurking but more that i felt like you would have a harder time finding an angle into the conversation as scum

[Datisi]

can i do a self-meta rebuttal to that without being scumread for it

[GuiltyLion]

i thought (and still think) his jump onto me has been very weird and potentially doesn't track with his thought process, but in order to verify that i have to actually sit down and read the thread properly, something i didn't have an opportunity to do until now. fire knows this - where am i being limp, exactly? because i don't wanna make arguments when i can't check them?

if you find yourself still thinking this after you've read the thread properly, I'd like for you to also consider and explain what you think town!me would be doing in my position instead

I am sure you can empathize with my difficulties wrapping my head around the gamestate in the world where literally all of Mastina, Titus, LLD are town, since you also thought each of them was an appropriate slot to check

I am not at all sold on your case / read on furtive nor your scumread on UNOwen

[Datisi]

I am not at all sold on your case / read on furtive nor your scumread on UNOwen

is this saying "i don't agree with them" or "i don't think the thought process behind them is real"? because i feel like it should be the former, but i don't see how it leads to me being scum, other than strictly poe. and it's not like i'm the only person who was casing those people anyway.

[GuiltyLion]

yah more the former. Like I can maybe buy that you think you have good reasons to suspect him or that cases presented elsewhere are good, but personally I don't think they're all that convincing, and it kinda feels like you haven't acknowledged furtive's moments of towniness, 4668 being one such example for me, or him accepting a duel with Enchant. like is that just theater or is scum!furtive pure yoloing? why does he do that instead of sit back and maybe see if one of the other duels on the table (GL v Roden, Enchant v literally anyone else, FB vs UNOwen) has a chance of happening?

generally like the POE is so narrow and off-feeling that I am starting to Freak Out and it's worrying to me that you are not indicating similar levels of paranoia. But I recognize that is unfair because theoretically you have a lot more information than I do.

so I think this is going to be a semi difficult conversation for us to reach true mutual understanding because I'm sure if I had mod-confirmed intel that you and your checks were town, the POE suspects would feel scummier to me because they virtually

have

to be scum. but from where I'm sitting without any of that intel, it's become more concerning/worrying to me that you may be Scum Winning moreso than an explanation where furtive is scum. cause I just don't really see what the satisfying narrative for the game is for a team in furtive/UNOwen/Drap/Roden/Enchant, it doesn't feel likely, I townread those players to varying degrees, and I think a team comprised of them have fought a lot harder at critical junctures in the game, or simply not tried to kill FB or fireisred of all people last night, etc.

[Enchant]

furtive is town

[GuiltyLion]

whoops, linked the wrong post, 4668 not 4866

[Datisi]

i did not acknowledge that because... i don't think it's town, AT ALL. i have said before that i feel like scum are trying to nudge in the direction of my yeet, and furtive has had a will-i-won't-i position on my alignment for like, the entire game. there was talk about having to flip me. he has offered zero reads on lld.

so what is supposed to be townie about "hehe guys so like, datisi cop is weird right?", especially when they know they're under fire?

and didn't they say themselves they'd accept a duel or did i imagine that

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Can you give us your last will on who you think is scum Datisi?

[Datisi]

i am still reading, currently on page 195.

the sneak peek is that i think the way gl went from strongly defending me and saying that he thinks drapion is a decent vote (and also saying that i probably don't fakeclear buddies), to calling you scum with me if i'm scum, to saying it's almost certain some of my checks are scum if i'm scum, to townreading(?) drapion with the worst reasoning possible, to saying he's inclined to yeet me, to putting me *in his solve* - his actions don't feel like he has a coherent thought process (or rather a trajectory) behind them and like he's trying to justify the jump onto me. like, even if he agreed that it is mechanically correct to kill me today for the info, he wasn't thinking i'm scum before and was strongly townreading me, the mindset switch doesn't feel real.

i've also noticed that a couple of times in this game, both in this thread and in the supporters pt, he made weird shade-comments about me, but then insisted he is still strongly townreading me.

[Datisi]

I don't think scum have their entire wincon ride on the hope we paranoia mis-elim the single most difficult-to-elim player in the game.

well you see, i definitely am difficult to eliminate by dayplay, yes

interestingly enough, nobody is making dayplay arguments for my death. i wonder why.

[furtiveglance]

i did not acknowledge that because... i don't think it's town, AT ALL. i have said before that i feel like scum are trying to nudge in the direction of my yeet, and furtive has had a will-i-won't-i position on my alignment for like, the entire game. there was talk about having to flip me. he has offered zero reads on lld.

so what is supposed to be townie about "hehe guys so like, datisi cop is weird right?", especially when they know they're under fire?

and didn't they say themselves they'd accept a duel or did i imagine that

I've been back and forth on you yes. Even now I'm not sure. It's entirely possible that we're both town. But in that scenario, mechanically speaking, Town is helped far more by eliminating you. Can you agree at least to this premise?

[furtiveglance]

I don't think scum have their entire wincon ride on the hope we paranoia mis-elim the single most difficult-to-elim player in the game.

well you see, i definitely am difficult to eliminate by dayplay, yes

interestingly enough, nobody is making dayplay arguments for my death. i wonder why.

If you're town, I do have sympathy with your situation. But we need the information that the scumteam has denied us by avoiding you and all of your checks. Your flip gives us that

[Datisi]

no, i don't agree

in the world where we flip you and you're town, i am not getting protected. so scum has a choice. either shoot me tonight (conftowns my checks, loses us a cop check from n5, BUT it saves a mislim that would've been used on me) or shoot someone else (lets me get another check, if it's red i duel with my red check twice and then i get yeeted most likely if both duels fail, if it's green i still duel and then die)

[furtiveglance]

no, i don't agree

in the world where we flip you and you're town, i am not getting protected. so scum has a choice. either shoot me tonight (conftowns my checks, loses us a cop check from n5, BUT it saves a mislim that would've been used on me) or shoot someone else (lets me get another check, if it's red i duel with my red check twice and then i get yeeted most likely if both duels fail, if it's green i still duel and then die)

But flipping you and appointing someone else gives us the same result if you consider your exit from the game inevitable in either scenario, and I get to live.