Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[Lazy Shirou]

hi u guys smell like scum

[Lazy Shirou]

we're all scum actually there's like 6 scum in this game una was right all along

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm here just to loweffort this now and tell u all to vote scummy slots

pls and ty

[Lazy Shirou]

i can be wrong

we all always can be wrong on all sort of things despite what evidence tell us, but the arguably best accuracy reads townie on this site recommended using statical probability about scum reads still

even he, that received the title of "ex-deus machina" for solving entire games on day 1, kinda seemed to believe there's luck involved no matter what in mafia games from his pov

there's always the possibility of what u are seeing is coincidences. RL intereferences. Mood. it's a mystery without necessarily the smoking gun or hard evidence, but when i look at fire/furtive posts in this game i just imagine a council of all town players i admire in my mind and they're all telling me both need to die asap

there's like, crack theories/explanations for those nightkills in this game that no one seems to suspect yet but without looking at meta or going for what is statistically less likely from the get-go, i think the behavior fire/furtive have showed here is so statistically more likely to come from scum than town that
i'm surprised it doesn't seem more of a consensus view

idk

i want to be motivated to play this but i can't when i feel like it's a matter of people just dropping the votes

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm surprised it doesn't seem more of a consensus view

maybe it's in fact consensus it's just blegh they aren't dead yet

no one has said anything interesting/i hadn't thought about already since the start of this dayphase

if we can't have a somewhat hardsolve with 100 pages of game content idk man maybe there's something wrong bc many games with this much players aren't as big as that and still result in town wins

p-edit good norwe kill him pls

[Lazy Shirou]

Replacing giuseppina.

hm

it's me again isn't it

i'm sorry i'm a petulant child that keeps screaming until i get what i want but idk if i can ever change or if i want to change bc if neither of fire/furt is scum this game is wild and i want to see it with my own eyes asap

[Lazy Shirou]

i cannot stop thinking and fearing the possibility of me being wrong on both of them

and that's exactly why i also want they dead asap

if there's such a sweet rush in this game as a final day where i realize this game is a hard puzzle and the answer won't be simple, i crave it.

i'm sorry pina i never meant to offend you or anything in this game by rushing if this is what it's about

[Lazy Shirou]

Replacing giuseppina.

hm

it's me again isn't it

i'm sorry i'm a petulant child that keeps screaming until i get what i want but idk if i can ever change or if i want to change bc if neither of fire/furt is scum this game is wild and i want to see it with my own eyes asap

I'm about to blow your mind

I don't think Fire is mafia. I re-read Ari/Fire and I don't think so

yes ofc bc he's either a partner or you want him flipping town to discredit me on u

very clever furtive i give it a B+

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm about to blow ur mind furtive

i love chatting with u in sitechat but after many hours thinking i still want u exterminated in this game

s2

[Lazy Shirou]

pls petapan i need dayvigs u gotta give me dayvigs pls

[Lazy Shirou]

gimli is literally next in my poe are u guys trolling me

either way gonna sleep now gn

[Lazy Shirou]

Speaking of, it’s kinda dull without Shirou here.
I know they are now Lazu Shirou but damn.

Shhhhhh

VOTE: fire

[Lazy Shirou]

listen it's fun and all to talk about gimli and we can kill gimli if both furtive/fire flips town but both furtive/fire felt like they *knew* TGP was scum

Fire in particular never stopped voting TGP even when StD tried to wagon me, fire just stayed on TGP the entire game while shading other slots like me and Klick

it just doesn't feel natural, it feels like he knew TGP was scum and didn't want to be somewhere else when TGP flipped.

[Lazy Shirou]

Shirou: "Plz guys, we need to do Furtive/Fire first"

Me: Vote go BRRRR
VOTE: Gimli

[Lazy Shirou]

I guess I am still interested in what towny things furtive saw in his reread of Ari/fire

informed people issues i think

we should try to be more understanding

[Lazy Shirou]

[Lazy Shirou]

[Lazy Shirou]

[Lazy Shirou]

how can you be so confident that fire is also town it makes no sense tell me one game where you used this kind of AtE it just doesn't feel like the kind of thing you would do

[Lazy Shirou]

even if you would know i'm wrong on you how can you be so confident that fire is town like what the hell you aren't talking in possibilities at all you're acting like you know 100% that fire is town wtf

i also have gimli as the third candidate

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm not apologizing either if i'm wrong i don't think objectively speaking you deserve to be town read

voting scum alone isn't enough to clear someone furtive i don't understand you

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm feeling like throwing this game by this point

[Lazy Shirou]

do u want to know how we can throw this game potentially or end up with the most hilarious outcome

voting norwee because he's kinda scumposting and i've mostly only been town reading his reaction to me

pina as well let's go on that furtive didn't you say you wanted pina

that's the meme way to try solving this game

[Lazy Shirou]

what if norwee/pina is town furtive will u apologize

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm tired of this game u guys have won me

VOTE: Gimli

E-1.

if this flips town tomorrow the scum push is prob Klick I guess

it could end with Gimli though he has odds of being scum he's in my PoE as I said before I just would rather do fire/furt first.

[Lazy Shirou]

gimli being demotivated to do anything is also kinda blegh

i'm bored of this game and the fault isn't mine if this is wrong

[Lazy Shirou]

i think if u are scum u should just self-hammer by this point gimli

no one would blame u

[Lazy Shirou]

furtive/fire is so scummy

[Lazy Shirou]

who is gimli's partner furtive

[Lazy Shirou]

furtive/fire is so scummy

I'm not there yet. Why is this?

fire sat voting on TGP the entire game and kept shading other people while at it rather than pushing hard for TGP to die itself

Furtive replaced in and after some waffling started to declare TGP was 100% gonna flip scum never could be wrong, and pre-flip associate other slots like "gimli is bussing TGP" or "CSF said X thing about tgp/fire but isn't voting him???" when CSF was pushing TGP since like forever

Furtive also thinks his slot is obvtown for pushing TGP but was suspecting me before even though I also pushed it on d1

he for some time suspected fire even though by his mentality fire should be "obvtown" as well for pushing TGP

Furtive is using a kind of AtE here that he has never used as town by being pushed before

i rest my case

Gimli can easily end up ending the game but i don't see how people struggle to just kill fire/furt

[Lazy Shirou]

VOTE: fire

[Lazy Shirou]

please lycan come to fire wagon we have cookies

[Lazy Shirou]

furtive show me one town game where you had this bonker level of confidence on something.

[Lazy Shirou]

you need to show me one.

where you keep saying people are throwing by not doing what you want.

show me furtive. show me the light.

[Lazy Shirou]

furtive i'm about to go to sleep

please show me one town game where you were acting like this, saying people are throwing, etc

one town game furtive. one.

[Lazy Shirou]

i'll consider voting gimli again if you do.

[Lazy Shirou]

VOTE: gimli

i'm tired

whatever he's on my PoE anyway I "guess"?

[Lazy Shirou]

E-1

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm starting to believe furtive could be town but fire still feels like scum

[Lazy Shirou]

Voting Gimli is crap. Let's do fire or klick.

FINALLY

VOTE: FIRE

[Lazy Shirou]

PLEASE VOTE FIRE AS WELL LYCAN I BEG OF YOU I LOVE YOU

[Lazy Shirou]

i don't think gimli is necessarily crap though easily could be scum imo

it's just like...

fire though...

sitting on TGP and shading others/accusing me of bussing non-stop?

decent odds of red mhm

[Lazy Shirou]

to me it's a matter of PoE to some extent lycan

but also like, i think gimli is objectively significantly better than fire's read/behavior around TGP

[Lazy Shirou]

i think there's close to no way fire wouldn't have voted gimli already if he was town, almost everyone other than maybe toto has voted

i'm happy people finally are seeing my issue with him, he's always on the fence, loves to shade but not to stick his neck for it

[Lazy Shirou]

he said he was voting tgp since the start/super confident on it but it always felt as he was talking about *other* slots rather than pushing TGP himself

i think the most he often would mention tgp was to call him scum with me

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm starting to get less confident on scum!furtive, but i think at least fire needs death here please

[Lazy Shirou]

fire doesn't seem too eager to actually *kill* the scum, he seems more interested on positioning himself well.

[Lazy Shirou]

he always seem to have 3 lim options or so, exactly the amount necessary to win

sigh

[Lazy Shirou]

and i wouldn't have cared in the dance game either, i didn't care about reading MariaR games at all

[Lazy Shirou]

Norwee i'm starting to consider a bit more wild theories

i'm starting to think you're scum with fire and i need you to vote him with me to prove it wrong

and not unvote when the wagon gets big, we can kill gimli later if that doesn't end the game i pinky promise

[Lazy Shirou]

i can't guarantee that fire flips red but just like i said about tgp he's very individually scummy even if i'm having a bit trouble understanding who is exactly his partner if it's not furtive

[Lazy Shirou]

he has super good odds of ending the game imo and it's weird how some people don't seem to see it

[Lazy Shirou]

i can do Fire > Gimli at this point and if it doesn't end the game we've ELO hell where i question my life choices by letting furtive go for AtE (which is a tactic that would only work once)

hopefully i'm dead at that ELO hell

let's go?

@Furtive i can vote with you on gimli if we kill fire today yes?

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm talking as if the game doesn't end but it's just considering the worst scenario obviously i'm too lazy to say "blah blah if it doesn't end the game we..."

[Lazy Shirou]

we can do Fire > Gimli > Klick if this is what consensus is

i just want death by this point who fucking knows i may be wrong on klick being anti-associative to TGP just like i was wrong on scum!meuh being anti-associative to scum!Ari

just let me have this Fire elimination yes?

i'm betting all my chips by this point that it ends the game

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm betting all my chips by this point that it ends the game

ok i'm not betting all my chips, just a lot of chips

[Lazy Shirou]

StD was also coincidentally suspecting [Fire, Norwe] aside from Gimli

norwee prove me wrong and vote fire and don't unvote

that "interaction" you guys had felt really fake and just like trying to have an excuse to vote elsewhere

fire posted a lot i don't see how you ignore that and just try to ask him about his reads

[Lazy Shirou]

Tbh i wanted to vote outside your PoE because i feel like that’s what really throws you off if you are scum.

You HATE it when town don’t do things according to your plan and it leads to a meltdown.

Idk it seems a bit weird to me that you would suddenly stop townreading me when you’ve supposedly done it all game?

you know i also get frustated as town, and what is my "scum plan" exactly when i'm agreeing to voting the other slots people want if i'm wrong on fire?

like, there should be no difference on the order they go for me if i'm scum, even if you say gimli or klick are my partners i'm here agreeing to vote them if that's what consensus is in the next days, i'm kinda genuinely opposed to klick but lucian/gimli was a pet scum read of mine ever since d1

[Lazy Shirou]

i can't guarantee that fire flips red but just like i said about tgp he's very individually scummy even if i'm having a bit trouble understanding who is exactly his partner if it's not furtive

Yeah this is kind of my problem with fire!scum. The last time I was heavily scumreading someone but I couldn't figure out anyone they were scum with, the slot was scummy town

i can do Fire > Gimli at this point and if it doesn't end the game we've ELO hell where i question my life choices by letting furtive go for AtE (which is a tactic that would only work once)

hopefully i'm dead at that ELO hell

let's go?

@Furtive i can vote with you on gimli if we kill fire today yes?

I don't know. There was a game when I townread fire even though he was mafia and quite widely scumread. My problem is, if Fire is mafia with a non-Gimli partner, who is it? I think you're barking up the wrong tree with Norwee

In Doubles Mafia I thought both NM and Nero Cain were scummy individually, but they didn't make sense as a team for a very similar reason:

The game was a large divided on half as sort of two micros, and had a mechanic where after 2 or 3 scum killed the game would be over. Town was one away from winning the game and Nero/NM were voting each other, I couldn't figure out they were the team because they were basically throwing in the hopes it would look anti-associative.

I think in a game like this scum can often do some really wild things that don't really make a lot of sense, I don't think it's impossible at all fire partner is light bussing him here although probably not wanting to vote him yet (maybe Toto?). I don't know, do we want the Fire slot to ever reach ELO?

I think we can all agree that the Fire/TGP interactions are wonky and that Fire isn't the towniest slot around, I think he needs to be flipped and if ever town, would actually give us useful information when re:reading past days given Ari was one of the biggest wagons/suspects in this game.

[Lazy Shirou]

Like i can vote Fire but i think if they flip town i would lose a lot of reasons to townread you because i think they’ve felt slightly townie later pages and you seem like you really want to rush this lim by associating me as scum with them and basically strongarming the elimination.

and why is that scummy for me. i strongarm stuff more as town than scum.

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm not town reading your content rn norwee, i had you as town for your d1 play mostly. but this recent paranoia may also be because i'm running in circles on my head with this game if fire isn't scum

if i assume furtive is town, fire not being scum is like "the cake and everything is a lie" moment for me

even if you say gimli is scum who is the partner and don't say klick

if fire flips town we can also kill gimli tomorrow and if both fire and gimli isn't town, WHO is scum if we're to assume furtive is town

[Lazy Shirou]

klick would have good odds of being scum if both fire/gimli flip town and furtive is town, i guess

but we would need two

see, if furtive is town and both fire/gimli are town this game is either klick/toto or we're hard town reading someone we shouldn't

and i guess some may say "oh it may be you shirou" but i know my alignment and for that to be impossible

so this game NEEDS to end with fire/gimli if furtive is town, either that or one of the ultra town reads is wrong/it's exactly Klick/Toto which is kinda weird.

like, the plan of the scum team would have been for one to defend TGP (Klick) and the other to kinda bus (Toto)? not impossible but it just doesn't give me the warm bloodlust feelings as a team

[Lazy Shirou]

Toto vs TGP also doesn't quite feel like theater i must admit

like, Toto saying for TGP to please towntell or so/last words etc

idk, i feel like partner!Toto would try to bus more there more to gain credit and he didn't

[Lazy Shirou]

if furtive is town it's gotta be in fire/gimli

perhaps even if furtive is scum (fire partner)

[Lazy Shirou]

I can confirm that furtive kept saying town was throwing when he wasn't getting his way in Cosmos Mafia if that helps

was he right there

[Lazy Shirou]

furtive, serious talk.

from anime man to real photography man.

if i vote gimli today and it flips town/doesn't end the game, do you promise to vote fire tomorrow in a way that everyone can treat you as confirmed scum with fire if you don't?

if you say yes i can go along with you today and you must vote fire tomorrow if this doesn't end the game.

it's a deal.

[Lazy Shirou]

if you're that confident on gimli being scum, and i'm confident on fire being scum, if we're both town shouldn't we strike a deal of giving a shot at each other reads?

[Lazy Shirou]

i've already said it but gimli is where i may look next if fire flipped town and you're town as well, i think the game can end with gimli but you must PROMISE to vote fire tomorrow in a way that everyone has ever right on calling you confirmed scum with him if you don't.

your theory would have been proven wrong if gimli is town. i can see what you say about gimli not being exactly similar to his town meta here, but he's also on vla i guess

[Lazy Shirou]

I simultaneously don't like deals and don't remotely think that [Fire, Gimli] are 2 town

ok so do you AGREE to the deal?

are you absolutely promising to vote fire tomorrow if gimli flips town? if you don't i and anyone else has every right of calling you confirmed scum with fire and the "blame" isn't on me if i misread you?

[Lazy Shirou]

because i don't trust you to vote fire tomorrow and the fact you are yelling that gimli always ends the game but isn't accepting my deal is weird

i can accept the inverse deal, and always vote gimli tomorrow if fire flips town here.

[Lazy Shirou]

you talk with a lot of confidence that gimli is lockscum or something but you're hesitating

i'm not hesitating i think fire wins this game in so many universes, not always but a lot of the time. he was informed of tgp being scum, i can absolutely not shake that feeling when i look at his posts from before. he knew it, he was trying to position himself from the start.

not to mention tgp weird treatment of his slot

[Lazy Shirou]

The very fact that you're obsessing over a 'deal' is what's making me apprehensive

i literally made a deal like this in TM 2021 black flag and said that if Auro didn't flip scum i was self voting

auro was fucking scum

fire may not be perhaps but i absolutely need to kill that slot and if he's town reevaluate how i look at d1/d2 here

i don't think i've ever made those kinds of deal as scum either, it's just not worth it

[Lazy Shirou]

so are you voting fire with me first or are we killing gimli first? up to you.

[Lazy Shirou]

i obviously want fire

[Lazy Shirou]

VOTE: gimli

let's go pls don't go back on your word if town

[Lazy Shirou]

i think there's also decent odds it ends with just gimli but eh

i think fire is the scum here in most universes

[Lazy Shirou]

if they're busing each other that would also be hilarious but very unlikely and borderline throwing

[Lazy Shirou]

I don't like this talk about lining up the lims.

have done it before, only as town so far in fact:

Subject: TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

Fair enough. Just seemed like a weird reaction test or something. It didn’t jive with what I had.

Why do you think people are so willing to sheep you?

Whatever

Math

.

Discussion time is over,

now it's Mafia Texas time where I bet all my chips on my reads.

I would rather lose this game because scum pulled off something unexpected than to keep like this.

My entire chain for anyone with an interest is:

Auro

>

Shirou

>

Flopz

>

MathBlade

Mena/AL/Chennis

probably still have at maximum one scum so I suggest Math if things come to the worst. I don't think they will though.

[Lazy Shirou]

Subject: TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

I'm scum

Autumn

.

Scum.

Now vote

Auro

already, and hard catch me tomorrow, and you win the game.

Very simple plan right?

I don't think I'm getting limmed today without a

self-vote

, although who knows by this point.

[Lazy Shirou]

In the immortal words of a previous game. Maybe Shirou is just crazy.

how am i crazy when i'm killing both people you wanted

norwee you can't stop scumposting

i was town reading your play earlier in d1 but you feel so disengaged of the game.

[Lazy Shirou]

if norwee doesn't vote fire tomorrow he's scumclaiming

[Lazy Shirou]

hopefully this just ends today tho

[Lazy Shirou]

i prob should retiree after all i absolutely hate team games

convincing others of my opinion is so unfun

[Lazy Shirou]

In the immortal words of a previous game. Maybe Shirou is just crazy.

how am i crazy when i'm killing both people you wanted

norwee you can't stop scumposting

i was town reading your play earlier in d1 but you feel so disengaged of the game.

What, how am i disengaged of the game. That makes no sense as even an argument right now.

you asked fire to explain their reads when they have been talking A LOT about them

you just didn't read earlier fire posts that's the truth of the case

now can this be town you? yes i do think i've good reasons to town read you but you just keep doing weird stuff like unvoting fire because of hammer fear or so

[Lazy Shirou]

meming me for dance game is funny except i prob would have won it if i controlled all lims after MariaR, it would clearly be from my reads there:

VP/Owen > StD/Gimli > Ydrasse/Fire

ELO of Me/Meuh/Enchant/Midway

and I kill Meuh there

the end we would have won.

i was very confident that enchant/midway was t/t i said that everywhere

[Lazy Shirou]

fire doesn't want something like voting potentially voting a townie on his super duper clean record of only voting scum!TGP

[Lazy Shirou]

no don't care anymore

[Lazy Shirou]

i never said klick was fire partner

or lycan, etc when they hadn't voted fire

i didn't like you asking fire for his reads when he had just been posting them

you're acting unfair towards me just bc i said i sus you a bit

[Lazy Shirou]

i'm being annoying bc i want fire dead

i think calling me annoying is pretty fair and an objective opinion

i'm still hurt u in special called me that

[Lazy Shirou]

we're one scum elimination away from victory if someone is voting and staying on their partner wagon it's kinda throwing how can i not get sus of people not willing to vote on fire which is my top scumread rn

[Lazy Shirou]

Ok i didn't mean to be that harsh, but still we are 3 eliminations away and you are rushing and calling those that doesn't believe 100% in your solve a scum partner.

i also wanted to see what you would say, if you were scum which isn't a 0% chance you would have brought me bc i had you as locktown so far, suspecting you a bit wouldn't hurt

you voted fire now so i don't believe you're ever his partner anymore

[Lazy Shirou]

it's E-1.

[Lazy Shirou]

i believe that was hammer

[Lazy Shirou]

i almost cried a bit at work back there i hope no one noticed

let's see the flip i guess

[Lazy Shirou]

yes fire very good posting

[Lazy Shirou]

it's ok i sucked anyway

i'm absolutely surprised klick thought defending tgp was a good idea there...

welp at least we wrapped up this game

[Lazy Shirou]

huh so my lucian read was right in d1 tho, i think i'm decent at reading datisi

i think i've 0 idea on how to read fire though his playstyle is so scummy to me

[Lazy Shirou]

but yeah i don't regret how i played it

i was confident that even if wrong on fire scum was prob already in the PoE anyway so wasting weeks discussing this was a waste of time

[Lazy Shirou]

what i truly regret was voting una rather than tgp d1

that was sadge

sorry una