don't put this all in alisae, it'll be too easy if the last wolf isn't alisae. I'm flipping cause I don't really wanna flip alisae this gameday anymore, and us both in f3 when e is playing like that will always be a crossvote.
any of y'all can cap me whenever you want to move the game forward.
- early defense of andante, pushes alisae for questioning andante's excitement;
- omgusing myko
- more defense of andante, now to klick
- votes herta
- unvotes herta
- votes andante but i don't see where aureal was scumreading andante prior to this
Did you vote Alisae because you found thier questioning of Andante scummy, or would you say it was just an RVS vote?
Do you have even a read on her, even a weak one?
A little of both, but just that question specifically, as I hadn't really connected it to the later stuff. It just kind of stuck out like a possible attempt to color perceptions of Andante, which would be kind of silly as it's obviously invalid reasoning but I could see it having an effect anyway. People aren't perfectly logical.
I suppose at this point I have a vague townread on Alisae. While they're being a bit uncharitable, I do like that there was a thought process behind the talk about past Mafia games; and more importantly, that they didn't feel the need to force a conclusion out of it.
In post 578, Wavelength wrote:
I think that in most of Gimli's interactions with Ari, he does not appear to be talking in a way that makes sense to be a townie talking to their top scum read [who they think is currently pushing you in bad faith.]
He looks like he is talking to a townie that he is trying to get to re-evaluate him (especially early on) / discredit her read if she doesn't (more of this later on).
Once I made it clear that I did not wish to interact with him on my scum read on him (largely because I find that to be a fruitless endeavor for both parties, and one of the worst ways to get a genuine re-evaluation of a scum read) I am now being described as tunneled to discredit my read as well.
I feel like a lot of this is echoing the way you were seeing me as well, would that be a reasonable assessment?
Anyway, I'm not sold on Gimli yet but I am trusting Klick and obviously we need to figure out Andante so I will VOTE: Andante here. I don't understand this slot at all- can anyone with meta on her explain how the heck someone who apparently thinks that reading 90% of the game is optional can manage to play this game?
Pedit: hi Andante, feel free to answer that question for yourself too please
so the progression is really just nonsensical. it's all softdefending andante by attacking pushes on her without a real read on andante throughout, to then voting andante for reasons that I don't think make much sense.
now the q is: is this scummy? maybe this is scummy
Did you vote Alisae because you found thier questioning of Andante scummy, or would you say it was just an RVS vote?
Do you have even a read on her, even a weak one?
A little of both, but just that question specifically, as I hadn't really connected it to the later stuff. It just kind of stuck out like a possible attempt to color perceptions of Andante, which would be kind of silly as it's obviously invalid reasoning but I could see it having an effect anyway. People aren't perfectly logical.
I suppose at this point I have a vague townread on Alisae. While they're being a bit uncharitable, I do like that there was a thought process behind the talk about past Mafia games; and more importantly, that they didn't feel the need to force a conclusion out of it.
In post 578, Wavelength wrote:
I think that in most of Gimli's interactions with Ari, he does not appear to be talking in a way that makes sense to be a townie talking to their top scum read [who they think is currently pushing you in bad faith.]
He looks like he is talking to a townie that he is trying to get to re-evaluate him (especially early on) / discredit her read if she doesn't (more of this later on).
Once I made it clear that I did not wish to interact with him on my scum read on him (largely because I find that to be a fruitless endeavor for both parties, and one of the worst ways to get a genuine re-evaluation of a scum read) I am now being described as tunneled to discredit my read as well.
I feel like a lot of this is echoing the way you were seeing me as well, would that be a reasonable assessment?
Anyway, I'm not sold on Gimli yet but I am trusting Klick and obviously we need to figure out Andante so I will VOTE: Andante here. I don't understand this slot at all- can anyone with meta on her explain how the heck someone who apparently thinks that reading 90% of the game is optional can manage to play this game?
Pedit: hi Andante, feel free to answer that question for yourself too please
so the progression is really just nonsensical. it's all softdefending andante by attacking pushes on her without a real read on andante throughout, to then voting andante for reasons that I don't think make much sense.
now the q is: is this scummy? maybe this is scummy
@klick pls interact with this
I can't interact with this right now but it's the first thing I'll do when I'm really available <3
I dunno, ask mykonian? He was getting very worked up about a 'deadline' or something. And the game hadn't even been open 48 hours yet.
I'm asking you cause you're voting me because of a rush, and you're just "idk go ask myko" like what?
VOTE: Aureal
YOU are the one voting ME because of said rush, and you don't even know what this rush is?? "Oh idk, there's a rush, just gonna plop my vote on the person not here right now, that's a real easy wagon to start pushing"
can't that be svs? it's a lot more theatrical looking from andante's end than her reaction to me or to klick was. with klick she was quite emotional, this looks more deliberate.
In post 601, Klick wrote:
I don't believe that Andante has genuine conviction in the things she pushes. I think the energy she has for the things she pushes is a front to seem like she cares a lot about what she's arguing about.
The thing that Andante does as town is she has thoughts off the cuff and presents them basically unfiltered. In older scum games I believe she has a lot of trouble imitating this play. In her most recent scum game, she imitated this by presenting lots of potential thoughts, but all at a surface level, without the *belief* behind them. She basically pushed whatever was convenient for her at the time, there wasn't a consistent thought process.
I think her play here matches pretty well with that. She's not posting as MUCH as she did in the last game, but the basic idea of 'I'm going to present this random idea I have and not hold onto it as a belief!' is still there.
I don't believe that Andante believes the things she's posting in the thread.
this is a post by klick that happens right after aureal puts andante at 3 votes. the first time andante had 3 votes, aureal also had 3 votes and andante was WKing aureal quite heavily. I don't think andante defended any other slot but aureal.
aureal votes her and it becomes omgus spite voting back. that was clearly her M.O. in this game, but I find it interesting nonetheless how the townread from andante to aureal disappears once the vote comes. it can be scum distancing the way it happened.
now I'm quoting that klick post because the one person making this wagon happen from scratch is klick. this is further burying the slot right after aureal votes her. once the alisae vote came, the slot was heavily compromised by klick.
In post 293, Andante wrote:
and 1 sec, alisae? why did you claim? it's day 1, game just started
I softed a bunch and thought might as well claim in full to make it easier for those who don't understand to be able to understand.
I feel like the only reason why my role exists is because wolves both have my role and I feel like now that the game has developed a little bit, let's maybe introduce this part of the puzzle and see what happens next.
hmmm interesting, I honestly keep forgetting this game is so small, so I guess it doesn't really matter, probably searching for 2 scum, I don't feel like scum does this so early, so you're probably town, hmm this might actually be an easy solve.
myko and aureal are like never partners with each other
klick seems very different this game and not in a good way (he was town last game)
dats/ari, idk how to ever read these 2, I don't think I've read like any posts from them this game that stood out
and I'm missing 2 that I just can't even recall are here
here andante is replying to an alisae post and then making a solve that's missing 2 players. guess who? me and alisae lol.
I'm back to work today so I can't get in depth with everything right now, but I can elaborate a little more on voting Andante. I obviously didn't expect that wagon to suddenly lead to an elimination like it did, but I was a bit wary of her for more than just "WTF is this play style" reasons when I voted. I don't think it's quite true that she was expressing a townread of me until I voted her. I noticed that she made a post about me after those ones where she said she liked my posts, and not only was it backing off of her liking my posts, it was digging up a post from a while back to talk about how she now wondered what she had liked about my posts. In other words, reading stuff that occurred while she wasn't here, which Klick's ploy had made clear was a thing she didn't consistently do. So I thought it was possibly notable that this one thing was worth reading back for.
"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
-furtiveglance
In post 196, Aureal wrote:
Do you not think that mykonian has basically reversed their reasoning for scumreading me with that post? Earlier the reason was that I'm just doing what I would normally do as town, not playing based off what I see. Now it's that I'm
not
doing what I did earlier as town. In other words, reacting to the game I actually have, not doing whatever it is I'm "supposed" to do because I did it before. This game is not particularly resembling that one. I don't think mykonian is reading the posts they linked with an intent to understand them, they're just trying to cherry pick an argument against me.
Also, did it occur to you that you also had the opportunity to put Andante at e-1 to get info on Datisi and Ari, which you also say you wanted?
This first paragraph is a lot of words to just go "myko is trying to cherry pick an argument from my posts" makes me wonder what the posts really were that I said I liked lol
it's quite a strong townread, then throws a bit of shade there. it only becomes a vote and a """push""" after aureal already voted there.
I know everyone can go back and read this progression for themselves, just putting it together nicely here if anyone wants to solve either now or next gameday using this perspective. I think it piles up to a strong scum case against aureal. do I believe in it? IDK. but it seems more likely to me that aureal is the last scum rather than alisae, and of course I'm still presently locktowning klick this game as we discussed it today.
In post 1272, Aureal wrote:
"strong scum case"
"do I believe in it. IDK"
furtiveglance would be all over you for that kind of waffling, lol
I'm presenting the argument for how you could be andante's partner. I've done that earlier with alisae as an attempt to show how a narrative could be crafted given er earlier posting to andante that makes them aligned. there's nothing either in your interactions with andante or in alisae's interactions with andante that make either of you less likely to be scum with her. in a general sense, I think alisae is townier than you are, and agree with aristeia that alisae was bruteforcing a death sentence scenario for er slot with er tunnel. I understand you're busy and d2 was brief, but I've seen nothing from you that made me think you're a townie working out the game and not just scum coasting and letting town eat itself up.
See, if you had started out making this sort of argument I could probably feel better about you, because honestly I'm not sure why others are so confident about townreading me and it's kind of weirding me out. But doing it after spending several days getting into "no u" fights with Alisae and throwing out occasional comments about how you haven't ruled me out and their reads are shallow? It's making me feel more like you've had the argument in your pocket all along and expected someone else to go with it and you're unhappy that you have to make it yourself.
Also, that's all stuff Andante did so it seems to have been a scum attempt to pocket me/set me up as linked to her should she flip.
"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
-furtiveglance
