Micro 1075: The Coalition of Imaginary Creatures (Game over)

[Eiralox]

If this game continues past coalition phase, players who were excluded cannot be aligned with each other

Scum can gain optimal gamestate control by having a universally townread player (eg. Eiralox, northsidegal) and an outsider (KawaiiKame, Not_Mafia, patchwork).

Having one and in and one off can help with nightkills and all kind of 'lim on coalition' POE tricks.

There are definitely scenarios where scum won't blatantly include each other in their coalitions with future gamestate in mind.

What Dunnstral says has merit, perhaps, overall scum would aim to have their buddy on for contingency's sake, but the above statement is far too strident and... confident? Weird? Something... for my tastes.

I've never played a coalition game, Dunnstral is quite experienced so I'm not sure why some possibilities are being excluded, put me on record on not liking this post.

If this game continues past coalition phase, players who were excluded cannot be aligned with each other

Perhaps we should take advantage of that instead of putting all of our strategy into vibe checks before anybody has been eliminated?

I'm with you in all of this, no one who is excluded is a potential alignment, have we decided in who's in the coalition?

And this one even less.

Kawaii/Dunnstral time might not be so clumsy as to have this above interaction, but I have both these players in 'don't want et' for good reason.

[Eiralox]

*team

[Bingle]

What Dunnstral says has merit, perhaps, overall scum would aim to have their buddy on for contingency's sake, but the above statement is far too strident and... confident? Weird? Something... for my tastes.

?

What Dunnstral said is just a mechanical truth.

If we have a coalition fail, and say

Bingle
Dunnstral
KawaiiKame
Umlaut

is the exclusion list, then mechanically none of those players can be scum together. He didn't say anything about a player being unable to put their buddy in their veto list.

[Bingle]

Like, literally he just said what I did 5 pages ago, where I pointed out the benefits of trying to put likely pairs on the same side of the divide.

[patchwork]

You see absolutely no issue with wanting to blindly policy eliminate someone because you're unsure of their alignment (Note: not scumreading) while knowing that if there is an elimination at all we should be eliminating on wagon? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

EARLIER i wanted to blindly policy-elim him, because i thought his play was detrimental. now i don't, because it's better and tends to ping me towards town a little.
i think you misunderstood what i said there

Hm. I looked back again and it seems my impression here was wrong too. Other than N_M and myself, the two lists are actually fairly similar. Walk me through what changed your thoughts from exclude N_M to N_M in coalition in that timeframe.

i'm playing by excluding players, like eira(can i call you that?) is. because my townplay is pretty shit, i need to find who i can trust first and then rally with them to gamesolve the best i can, but because none of these players are pinging me one way or another, i have to use process of elimination to see who i think i can trust the least. the only person who i'd i actually confidently townread is the delta slot, because delta absolutely matches up with meta (and for whatever reason in every game we've played together town delta pushes me) and how they play is towny to me. eira is sort of an extension of delta's play, and is just as towny to me.
like i said earlier in this post, n_m started to ping me a little more as town. i'm still unsure on their alignment, and i don't want to put all my eggs in one basket, but i'd say i'd probably include them in my coalition, over, say, kawaii, or someone. just because they're actually, you know. doing things. it's more of a policy tr than it is actual confidence in their towniness because i'm actually shit at playing mafia lmao.
feel free to ask me any clarifying questions if you don't understand

[Dunnstral]

If this game continues past coalition phase, players who were excluded cannot be aligned with each other

Scum can gain optimal gamestate control by having a universally townread player (eg. Eiralox, northsidegal) and an outsider (KawaiiKame, Not_Mafia, patchwork).

Having one and in and one off can help with nightkills and all kind of 'lim on coalition' POE tricks.

There are definitely scenarios where scum won't blatantly include each other in their coalitions with future gamestate in mind.

What Dunnstral says has merit, perhaps, overall scum would aim to have their buddy on for contingency's sake, but the above statement is far too strident and... confident? Weird? Something... for my tastes.

I've never played a coalition game, Dunnstral is quite experienced so I'm not sure why some possibilities are being excluded, put me on record on not liking this post.

If this game continues past coalition phase, players who were excluded cannot be aligned with each other

Perhaps we should take advantage of that instead of putting all of our strategy into vibe checks before anybody has been eliminated?

I'm with you in all of this, no one who is excluded is a potential alignment, have we decided in who's in the coalition?

And this one even less.

Kawaii/Dunnstral time might not be so clumsy as to have this above interaction, but I have both these players in 'don't want et' for good reason.

No, like. If the game continues past the first phase, that means we were wrong so there has to be mafia in the coalition. So they can't both be outside of it.

[Bingle]

EARLIER i wanted to blindly policy-elim him, because i thought his play was detrimental. now i don't, because it's better and tends to ping me towards town a little.
i think you misunderstood what i said there

The issue isn't that you wanted to policy lim him. The issue is that you were advocating it despite knowing, specifically for this setup, why policy elims are an awful idea.

I may have been started on a patchwork tunnel erroneously. Is there anyone townreading them that wants to litigate their read?

[Eiralox]

What Dunnstral said is just a mechanical truth.

No, like. If the game continues past the first phase, that means we were wrong so there has to be mafia in the coalition. So they can't both be outside of it.

Actually, yes, I'm at fault. Both Dunstrall's and Kame's posts remain bad to me, and their behavior as a whole ensures I still exclude them along with Bingle and Umlaut.

[Eiralox]

(can i call you that?)

I actually like that >.< Someday I might write a character named Eira, sounds lovely to me...

(This post makes me like you btw, I'd say youre my only other townlean besides Keychain. And heck, maybe also add N_M, the mindmeld is getting stronger at this point...)

[Bingle]

I agree, actually. I think that's actually doing what Key is accusing me of doing. I don't think you've mentioned, what's your reservation about Umlaut?

[Bingle]

I need some guidance on northsidegal, I'm not sure whether to trust or not to trust.

I'd been meaning to respond to this, as well.

Basically, nsg hasn't done a whole lot that's AI at this point, but I remember way back that her scum game wasn't all that impressive. She's playing the game the same way I tend to afaict: trying to stir shit until there's enough shit flying around to make people readable. As far as reads accuracy, she's earned the paragon title a couple times and tends to have one of the higher accuracies on site, so I think it's true that a lot of people just tend to townbin her D1 and hope she solves the game. I want her on the coalition specifically because if she is town scum will likely want to nightkill her early which will further restrict the lim pool in the case we don't win off of coalition.

I'm also playing under the assumption we aren't going to win through coalition, and if we do I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Bingle]

Perhaps we should take advantage of that instead of putting all of our strategy into vibe checks before anybody has been eliminated?

Do you maybe want to weigh in on my partner analysis?

[Eiralox]

I agree, actually. I think that's actually doing what Key is accusing me of doing. I don't think you've mentioned, what's your reservation about Umlaut?

For now I'm happy with my choice.

[Eiralox]

I need some guidance on northsidegal, I'm not sure whether to trust or not to trust.

I'd been meaning to respond to this, as well.

Basically, nsg hasn't done a whole lot that's AI at this point, but I remember way back that her scum game wasn't all that impressive. She's playing the game the same way I tend to afaict: trying to stir shit until there's enough shit flying around to make people readable. As far as reads accuracy, she's earned the paragon title a couple times and tends to have one of the higher accuracies on site, so I think it's true that a lot of people just tend to townbin her D1 and hope she solves the game. I want her on the coalition specifically because if she is town scum will likely want to nightkill her early which will further restrict the lim pool in the case we don't win off of coalition.

I don't meta, but I remain wary. I have more confidence in Keychain, Not_Mafia and patchwork. Thank you for the answer though, no one else has responded to this, everyone has nsg in coal.

I'm also playing under the assumption we aren't going to win through coalition, and if we do I'll be pleasantly surprised.

I think a pleasant surprise isn't unlikely.

[Bingle]

For now I'm happy with my choice.

Yes, but I'm interested in your *reasons*. This isn't some kind of trick. If you see something about Umlaut I don't, I want to know what it is. If it's just vibes or whatever, I'm happy to hear that as well. If it's that you think me/umlaut are trying to powerwolf, then I'm significantly less happy, but at least I'll know I'm not missing something here.

[Eiralox]

For now I'm happy with my choice.

Yes, but I'm interested in your *reasons*. This isn't some kind of trick. If you see something about Umlaut I don't, I want to know what it is. If it's just vibes or whatever, I'm happy to hear that as well. If it's that you think me/umlaut are trying to powerwolf, then I'm significantly less happy, but at least I'll know I'm not missing something here.

If I answer a question like that it's likely all you'll get out of me, no slight intended against you but for now 'I'm happy with my choice' is all I have to say -.-

[Bingle]

No offense taken. Minor frustration at a lack of engagement, but there's not a lot I can do to force that. Are there any reads you are interested in talking about?

[lilith2013]

V OTECOUNT 1.011
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Keychain (2)	northsidegal, Not_Mafia
patchwork (0)	None
KawaiiKame (1)	Keychain
Not_Mafia (0)	None
northsidegal (0)	None
Eiralox (0)	None
Umlaut (0)	None
Dunnstral (0)	None
Bingle (0)	None
NOT VOTING: patchwork, KawaiiKame, Dunnstral, Bingle, Umlaut, Eiralox
C OALITION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT C OALITION
Keychain (4)	Keychain, northsidegal, Eiralox, Umlaut
patchwork (4)	patchwork, northsidegal, Bingle, Eiralox
KawaiiKame (5)	Eiralox, Dunnstral, Keychain, northsidegal, Umlaut
Not_Mafia (5)	Not_Mafia, Keychain, patchwork, northsidegal, Eiralox
northsidegal (2)	northsidegal, Eiralox
Eiralox (5)	Eiralox, Not_Mafia, Keychain, patchwork, northsidegal
Umlaut (5)	Umlaut, northsidegal, Keychain, Eiralox, Bingle
Dunnstral (5)	Dunnstral, Umlaut, Eiralox, Bingle, northsidegal
Bingle (0)	None
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lock in a Coalition and 5 to eliminate. Deadline: (expired on 2023-04-06 14:49:20)
Notes: Imaginary creatures have completely fallen by the wayside

[Not_Mafia]

nonsense trolling

[Bingle]

nonsense trolling

Oh, don't get me wrong, clodpole. I'm down for some nonsense trolling. But I think I can be forgiven for expecting it from you.

[Bingle]

^ Wrong game

@ lillith

please delete

[Not_Mafia]

< Wrong universe

@ lillith

please delete my account

[patchwork]

EARLIER i wanted to blindly policy-elim him, because i thought his play was detrimental. now i don't, because it's better and tends to ping me towards town a little.
i think you misunderstood what i said there

The issue isn't that you wanted to policy lim him. The issue is that you were advocating it despite knowing, specifically for this setup, why policy elims are an awful idea.

I may have been started on a patchwork tunnel erroneously. Is there anyone townreading them that wants to litigate their read?

why are they an awful idea in this setup (i actually don't know)

[patchwork]

(can i call you that?)

I actually like that >.< Someday I might write a character named Eira, sounds lovely to me...

(This post makes me like you btw, I'd say youre my only other townlean besides Keychain. And heck, maybe also add N_M, the mindmeld is getting stronger at this point...)

WAIT are you a writer too???

[patchwork]

Perhaps we should take advantage of that instead of putting all of our strategy into vibe checks before anybody has been eliminated?

yeah but we're.... not past coalition phase yet lol