Open 876 - Fire and Ice - Postgame

[usesPython]

tl;dr scum will actively be trying to lim enemy groupscum here unless they have significantly >rand read accuracy (And if they do have >rand accuracy they can use that to avoid nightkilling the enemy groupscum and lim them the next day instead)

-Nameless

[usesPython]

Having said that though, there's a very specific scumtell to multiball that can still be used D1. We'll reveal it towards the end of the dayphase instead of right now to see if anyone falls for it

-Nameless

[usesPython]

No. Tell me, both of you, why it and others should.

Talking points. Gauging how people respond to pressure. Y'know all that good stuff

I didn't think you would want to join us. You seem to holster your vote like it's going to blow someone's face off if you use it

Votes? Wagons? VCA? You want it, it's yours my friend!
VOTE: Black

HPE town

[usesPython]

i dont like it regardless. if it were to be a hidden alt, that's super fucking disgusting and anyone trying to figure out the main of a hidden alt should feel bad abt trying to unmask someone.

You voted us before Dragons main being public was known, do you think that mainhunting a secret alt is scummy or townie?

-A

[usesPython]

or NAI?

-A

[biancospino]

Spoiler:

You can try and say "HPE you're just trying to trick me by talking about the opportunity you didn't take!!" but it's like, such a braindead easy spot to throw a vote in at, or even prior when IceDragon's wagon was getting going and it refused to join.

There are a million things you 'could have' done. But why did you choose the one you did? And also, do you normally take forever to lay a vote down as Black hinted at?

But most importantly, while I think Bianco has a decent shot at being scum here, I don't think they would enjoy being called a poor sod lol.

This one doesn't see anything wrong with Bianco's posts, and it believes the wagon, for pressure or no, was 1) unnecessary and 2) kinda sus. Granted it probably should've voted you since you were the initiator of the wagon itself, but Black was the one asking me to vote, after all. Part of it was just giving in to Black wanting this one to use it's vote, but still.

And that poor sod could be bianco OR Ice!!! Maybe even a secret funny third option!!!

Pressure is always necessary, especially this early in a game, not sure why you don't see that.

Do you normally take forever to vote as Black hinted at?

And honestly thought my 8 Mile joke would get a bit more of a reaction here.....this makes me sad.

And Oclax, make it easy to read me and join this wagon!

People should really stop indicating which votes are "for pressure". Then they become instantly useless.

What is the point of asking HPE that? Are you seriously attempting to say that it

didn't

take forever to vote this time around, and then sussing it for its voting?
Look, throwing a vote in the hat only after refusing to do twice toward two different suggested wagons is taking forever to vote in my book

Also, scum is more likely to acquiesce compared to town.

You mean like how this one acquiesced in the

opposite direction

whilst Black was asking it to vote with her and you on bianco?

Did you just admit you are scum?

That's a REALLY interesting way to read that post.

I mean, you worded that in a very interesting way.

If we want to play the slip game this is lame. But I don't have to tell it to you, you don't believe it's a slip either, or you'd've voted it.

[usesPython]

Also, scum is more likely to acquiesce compared to town.

You mean like how this one acquiesced in the

opposite direction

whilst Black was asking it to vote with her and you on bianco?

Did you just admit you are scum?

That's a REALLY interesting way to read that post.

I mean, you worded that in a very interesting way.

Bruh wtf are you talking about

-C

[usesPython]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Oclaxian Empire]

i dont like it regardless. if it were to be a hidden alt, that's super fucking disgusting and anyone trying to figure out the main of a hidden alt should feel bad abt trying to unmask someone.

You voted us before Dragons main being public was known, do you think that mainhunting a secret alt is scummy or townie?

-A

152, 153

[biancospino]

But in multiball like this, and if you are scum there is always a chance that the lim-bait is scum. Personally I wouldn't overthink things on D1 and just try to find the easiest path and just hope for the best.

I think I agree with this. Everyone is trying to lim scum D1, even scum

ive been sitting on this post for a while trying to think about it and thought about it while showering, but i still think it comes from town more often than not. i'm basing this off town of salem coven which while i know is not the most accurate thing to base forum mafia plays off of, i do think its generally a good thing to look at since some mechanics do come into play here.

mainly, i think today is the only day scum killing scum is bad, and i think tomorrow its still maybe bad to do so?

Spoiler: three paragraphs collapsed

like sure, both factions can be crosskilled by the other, which is bad for them, and if they target the same person, neither of them kill someone, which is also bad. but the other faction has extra killpower which both sides desperately need for right now bc the sooner the game gets to one side achieving parity, the better for that faction. leaving alive the other people in the game who can kill ppl for you and get you to your wincon sooner is beneficial.

assuming a townie is killed today, and both kills are successful, it's a 6v2v2 which is a so much better position for both factions than say a 7v2v1 bc now if the one of the two goons is killed today its rlly bad for both mafia factions. (if it goes into a 7v2 on n2 with one faction being elim'd entirely, that's better for that one faction ofc, but its unlikely that one side finds and kills both of the other goons at this point.)

theres another point i think is inherent to multiball that makes scum trying to actively kill the other scum bad today too: if you kill both of the other scum today, u have to act like ur solving the game, which, depends on the player on whether this is good or not. multiball is inherently difficult if u roll town, and getting rid of ur easy way to look townie, (trying to scumhunt the other team), its gonna be rougher for u to win, especially if its smth like 9v2 where both the goons of the same faction are killed at the start, or even a 9v1v1.

tl;dr - scum are not going to want to kill scum today, but will act like they're actively trying to find scum. any other day? fuck if i know. its probably advantageous to scumhunt for all sides starting tmrw.

You voted us before Dragons main being public was known, do you think that mainhunting a secret alt is scummy or townie?

-A

Imo there is virtually no chance that Oclaxian, regardless of alignment, is pushing Python and not actually think they're scum. Not after admitting themselves that fabricating a sr on a townie D1 is a thing they think scum would want to do.

[usesPython]

Imo there is virtually no chance that Oclaxian, regardless of alignment, is pushing Python and not actually think they're scum. Not after admitting themselves that fabricating a sr on a townie D1 is a thing they think scum would want to do.

I don't follow. If Oclaxian thinks scum would want to fabricate a sr on a townie d1 then why would they genuinely be pushing me as scum if they're scum?

-Nameless

[Black]

tl;dr - scum are not going to want to kill scum today, but will act like they're actively trying to find scum. any other day? fuck if i know. its probably advantageous to scumhunt for all sides starting tmrw.

Ehhhh. Idk. I can understand the point where you said both scum teams have interest in keeping the other alive (for now) because that means more nights with multiple kills, but I still think I disagree here

Neither mafia team wins unless the other is completely eliminated. So both mafia teams should be just as eager to kill opposing scum as they are killing a townie. Yeah, having both mafia teams alive equals two kills, but those kills aren't guaranteed to hit green even if it's statistically likely. The Mafia teams could easily shoot each other overnight

I don't think scum finds enemy scum D1 and decides to vote elsewhere

[Black]

Oh cool Nameless is back with some math. Time for me to dip again

[usesPython]

Oh cool Nameless is back with some math. Time for me to dip again

smh I left a tl;dr this time

-Nameless

[Black]

Sike. More to read and I'm bored at work

I'm not a fan of Drew twisting HPE's words around. Getting scummy vibes from Drew here

[Black]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Yeah I want to wagon this

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Black]

Oh cool Nameless is back with some math. Time for me to dip again

smh I left a tl;dr this time

-Nameless

Even your tl;dr is confusing XD

Your posts have pretty colors though. I like that

[usesPython]

Even your tl;dr is confusing XD

tl;dr of the tl;dr: Scum are scumhunting even on d1 and limming people is better than not limming people

-Nameless

[biancospino]

Imo there is virtually no chance that Oclaxian, regardless of alignment, is pushing Python and not actually think they're scum. Not after admitting themselves that fabricating a sr on a townie D1 is a thing they think scum would want to do.

I don't follow. If Oclaxian thinks scum would want to fabricate a sr on a townie d1 then why would they genuinely be pushing me as scum if they're scum?

-Nameless

I can't imagine scum!Oclaxian taking the time to lay it out that scum would want to go for townies if they were intent of going for townies.
However scum!Oclaxian would have, on the other hand, a reason to say that if they were going for a genuine sr; it would help them buy townie points if you flip scum, which they would believe it would be the case

[usesPython]

I can't imagine scum!Oclaxian taking the time to lay it out that scum would want to go for townies if they were intent of going for townies.
However scum!Oclaxian would have, on the other hand, a reason to say that if they were going for a genuine sr; it would help them buy townie points if you flip scum, which they would believe it would be the case

Deliberately lying about mech feels pretty alien to me because all it takes is one person checking your work and correcting you to force you to change your position. In this case the extra towncred gained would still be 0 in their eyes after my mechposting

-Nameless

[usesPython]

Actually no nvm I'm starting to see what you're talking about for the scum!Oclaxian case: sring me before anyone corrects them on the mech still gives them towncred in their eyes even if they know what the correct mech is because until they get corrected it seems like it shouldnt be coming from scum!Oclaxian

-Nameless

[biancospino]

Deliberately lying about mech feels pretty alien to me because all it takes is one person checking your work and correcting you to force you to change your position. In this case the extra towncred gained would still be 0 in their eyes after my mechposting

-Nameless

That's not true, in fact you've proven it yourself:

Imo there is virtually no chance that Oclaxian, regardless of alignment, is pushing Python and not actually think they're scum. Not after admitting themselves that fabricating a sr on a townie D1 is a thing they think scum would want to do.

I don't follow. If Oclaxian thinks scum would want to fabricate a sr on a townie d1 then why would they genuinely be pushing me as scum if they're scum?

-Nameless

you're saying it yourself that you don't think scum!Oclaxian would push a genuine sr. So if they

are

, it would be reasonable to consider that towny.

[The Bulge]

Spoiler: Quotes too deep

i just skimmed this game before work and it makes negative sense

ill read everything more attentively later but i doubt itll make any more sense

At the risk of agreeing with you.....I uh, kinda agree.

I fear Ice is being used as mis-elim bait, they do have a style that gets them in hot water, and you kinda get that after playing a few games with them.

I kind of feel Bianco would and should know that.

Why do you think scum would go for lim-bait instead of actively hunting for the other groupscum?

-A

Trying to catch the other faction taking it hook line and sinker, perhaps? That'd be my guess.

Yeah but like Drew is saying Bianco is scum for going after what Drew considers limbait, my point is that I think scum have the

biggest

incentive to properly scumhunt since it prevents a lim from their own team while also getting rid of a threat and gives them +town.

-A

disagree, there's a lot more town than scum and if one scumteam is picked off early then it leaves all the rest of the townies for the remaining scumteam to deal with. fewer nks means more lims for scum to dodge.

[The Bulge]

Gonna eat dinner and I’ll read the thread and likely have some more comprehensive thoughts before V/LA tmrw

Hey HPE here’s a text book scum tell!!

kids these days dont know about the food tell smh

[The Bulge]

My question to you Drew is: Why would an acquiescing scum!HPE decide to vote Black instead of taking the easily excusable opportunity vote on bianco, or the easily excusable scumread vote on IceDragon? Not go "oh yeah, application of pressure, sure! VOTE: Some Poor Sod"? You indirectly and Black directly encouraged it to join the bianco wagon, after all.

struck a nerve?

nothing really to go off of this exchange but i wanted to make note of it bc it has me raising many an eyebrow