Mini 2295 | Star Trek uPick - Fin!

[Aureal]

Dear lord, Kokichi, why is getting any sort of information or opinion out of you like pulling teeth? I know it's hard to muster any effort for this game but I gave you a nice simple prompt to respond to right there. It wouldn't take reading up or anything. I'd seriously be tempted to vote you again here but I'm pretty sold that Grey is scum and Porkens or LLD seem like more likely partners.

Same for everyone else, what we all doing here? I can go back through more of Grey's stuff to see if I can make more of a case but the sheer apathy being shown tells me that's just a waste of effort.

[fferyllt]

VC 3.2

Aureal (2): Lady Lambdadelta, Porkens
Lady Lambdadelta (1): xyzzy
xxyzzy (1): GreyICE
GreyICE (1): Aureal

Not Voting (3):

Kokichi Oma, KawaiiKame, PenguinPower

With 8 alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate

Deadline: April 17, Midnight US Eastern Time

countdown: (expired on 2023-04-16 21:00:00)

Mod Notes

• 

[Kokichi Oma]

Dear lord, Kokichi, why is getting any sort of information or opinion out of you like pulling teeth? I know it's hard to muster any effort for this game but I gave you a nice simple prompt to respond to right there. It wouldn't take reading up or anything. I'd seriously be tempted to vote you again here but I'm pretty sold that Grey is scum and Porkens or LLD seem like more likely partners.

Same for everyone else, what we all doing here? I can go back through more of Grey's stuff to see if I can make more of a case but the sheer apathy being shown tells me that's just a waste of effort.

I'll look into it, can you quote it again?

[fferyllt]

Deadline is paused at 3.5 days until replacements are found.

[fferyllt]

petapan replaces KawaiiKame

[petapan]

sup

have read nothing of this game, was taking a mental break from mafia, but when a friend needs a replacement i cannot resist the urge to help

is there anything i should know before i start reading

[Aureal]

Hello! Yes, Grey's slot is scum and everyone is too apathetic to look like one page back at my 1249 showing why.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

sup

have read nothing of this game, was taking a mental break from mafia, but when a friend needs a replacement i cannot resist the urge to help

is there anything i should know before i start reading

GreyICE was motion detected to go nowhere night 1 and claimed a variant of bulletproof with no actions. They claimed this before knowing the issue was a motion detect. That slot is town, Aureal and Xyzzy are my leading candidates, especially given Aureal's push on a slot with a Motion Detector Zero Result from N1.

Also, I was role blocked N2 and no townie has appeared to claim that despite me calling for it, so it's either I'm faking my joat claim which lol or I'm town as well.

Feel free to read back. I killed Hebi scum day 1, and Rogue self hammered while we waffled between them and Aureal day 2.

[petapan]

sup

have read nothing of this game, was taking a mental break from mafia, but when a friend needs a replacement i cannot resist the urge to help

is there anything i should know before i start reading

GreyICE was motion detected to go nowhere night 1 and claimed a variant of bulletproof with no actions. They claimed this before knowing the issue was a motion detect. That slot is town, Aureal and Xyzzy are my leading candidates, especially given Aureal's push on a slot with a Motion Detector Zero Result from N1.

Also, I was role blocked N2 and no townie has appeared to claim that despite me calling for it, so it's either I'm faking my joat claim which lol or I'm town as well.

Feel free to read back. I killed Hebi scum day 1, and Rogue self hammered while we waffled between them and Aureal day 2.

i have gotten to page 9, see scum was caught early, willing to write you off as town based on how that all played out

i have certain expectations for how game dynamics play out when there's an early wagon on scum with real traction but i'll report back when i've read more

aureal push seems out there but would be fairly brazen if scum, shrug. not making up my mind until i'm fully caught up, luckily don't anticipate this being a long read

[petapan]

Spoiler:

Post Work Catch Up

Running Thoughts

My

impression

is that I don't think LLD does that to hebichan if they are scum together. Possible, but unlikely. GreyICE's part of the interaction looks more RVS than serious, but that's a

cluster

of OOG stuff I can't personally fathom.

As others have noted, xyzzy's hop onto hebichan's wagon slightly smacks of distancing. I agree that if hebichan is scum, xyzzy is partner-leaning.

I don't see a town motivated reason why Aureal unvotes hebichan in 91. At that point, I don't have a strong townread on hebichan. Aureal doesn't express one either. Why not wagon hebichan? Someone at Y-2 is kinda the end of RVS in my opinion, but Aureal seems to be sticking with goofiness at that point. Regardless of hebichan's alignment, I scumread Aureal for this. hebi's omgus vote on aureal is bad too.

Rogue might be looking for a reason to townread hebi? (130). Also 137 gives me "no we aren't in a scum PT look we are chatting here" vibes.

I find myself agreeing with Black, a lot.

LLD's "deal" with hebi indicates to me she feels in a very dominant position. Again doesn't feel partnered, but also feels NAI on LLD's part.

I'm gutreading Kokichi town but don't get the vote/unvote on GreyICE.

PenguinPower's vote on rogue is puzzling to me combined with the question in 97/220

I don't like hebi's progression on Aureal or her vote on Black.

Similarly don't like Frogs' vote on black and I don't see the relevance of the quoted posts.(235)

Don't like Rogue's "me too me too" 240 about black. Rogue/Frogs/hebichan? But I do think that team would have Rogue on xyzzy's wagon.

Wavelength joins the bad counterwagon on black.

KawaiiKame lots of questions no opinions. baa baa.

---

Black

Kokichi Oma

Lady Lambdadelta
GreyICE
KawaiiKame
PenguinPower

Wavelength
Rogue
Frogs
hebichan
Aureal
xyzzy

I could vote for any of the bottom 6 right now.

dude

[petapan]

Black/Porkens def town in this, I'm willing to believe Kokichi is town too
It's likely scum is within the Black/hebi wagons, though it's possible they outside of them

I don't agree. I think if Black is town, Porkens reads heavier scum. I can kinda see the rationale for town black but I don't think it's reasonable for it to be the highest town read in its own category for Porkens. Feels like alignment knowledge and buddying.

[petapan]

I agree with hebi's 307 - this could come from wolf!Porkens but I am feeling it is more town motivated

Kawaii's 305 feels more informed than anything Porkens has said imo. I am not sure how Porkens and I are definitely town here and the extra Koki townread seems random. 310 feels informed too

cakez 299 and 311 feels sideliney, saying there is no town thought process behind my posts but not pointing out any examples except a pressure vote on kawaii?

Porkens goes in listing all of these NAI comments on posts acting like they are good reasons to think Black is town when like...none of them are.

Porkens has provided more reasons for town!Black than your slot has provided for wolf!Black. Ali posted a bunch of quotes and said they feel like wolf but no reasoning, and now you are doing similarly here

I do believe Black feels semi lost though in a way she didn't feel b4

I have a feeling it is the lack of contractions. Maybe I sound robotic to you XD

I feel most confident of scum in one of black/porkens still, kokichi is pretty weak iso but he's been gone awhile.

Your initial vote on me was pressure but now I am your most confident scumread, along with the person that townreads me? That is quite the progression. I think you should elaborate on your scumreads of Porkens and I

Porkens is my most confident scumread. Your flip would be more interesting. You flipping town always results in me voting porken tomorrow, you flipping scum would likely make porkens town cause why buddy so close to a scum partner.

i mean

[Kokichi Oma]

I'll wait for this catch up

[petapan]

What if she's mafia who thought there was a 3P and that's why she went all-out on hebi? Wouldn't mafia want to figure out the 3P, maybe even moreso than town who's just clueless to its existence?

this is

probably not a post scum makes particularly about someone who is burying their partner

caveat being that someone who hasn't rolled scum in 17 years could have a very different meta wrt my expectations for how scum generally play

but it's just a very out there post

[petapan]

Aureal and Xyzzy are my leading candidates, especially given Aureal's push on a slot with a Motion Detector Zero Result from N1.

imo aureal/xyzzy are unlikely to be scum/scum based on 534/551 - at that point in time hebi is flailing and i struggle to believe the remaining two scum decide to go at each other's throats in that way

if i had to make a snap decision based on what i've read so far (on page 23 atm), i'd go xyzzy over aureal quite easily, fits the profile of a busser moreso than aureal

and i think in general in these situations where one teammate gets caught early it induces quite a bit of fear in scum - it's a very difficult decision to make in the spur of the moment, hesitate too much and your teammate could die and then everyone will point their finger at you for not voting them, but if you overcommit you risk damning your partner when they could have wriggled out of it, or even getting called for looking overconfident

so in general the profile i expect is for partners to be going along with the vote but quitely while testing out the possibilities for other options n that is kind of how i read xyzzy's early vote on hebi along with that wall where they made a point to pressure hebi in a somewhat on the nose way while ultimately voting aureal

[petapan]

So a non-town claim.

Vote: Hebi

I will not go into a long explanation of why this is always, always, always, always the correct move. A brief summary:

- The moderator has not confirmed the existence of a non-hostile, non-town faction. There's no evidence it exists. There's a known non-town faction - it's Mafia. Occam's Razor.
- Fferyllt likes fairly vanilla roles. For instance their design document for Tarot Mafia, despite having an incredibly complicated picking procedure, has mostly "modified vanilla" roles: viewtopic.php?p=12857475#p12857475
- It's a mini normal, 13 players doesn't give much room for a non-town, non-hostile faction.
-

It's day 1, we're guaranteed not to eliminate town by doing this

The last one should be the only one that matters.

eliminating hebichan here as policy doesn't give us useful info for day 2. if we later have reason to believe hebichan is lying scum, we can circle back around to that. if we eliminate town on day 1, that's obviously bad, but it gives us a wealth of information that eliminating a claimed survivor does not. the drawback of going into day 2 with less to work with is far greater than the "at least we didn't lose a town player" moral victory, especially because it doesn't stop us from getting closer to a scum win.

i mean

[petapan]

381 I don't care for the "that was pocketing?" comment. on the one hand I'd be willing to believe that Aureal genuinely isn't sure whether daytalk is a default thing or how PTs work. on the other hand I still get such bad vibes from 359, and this doesn't really mitigate those.

Is it on the site somewhere that it's a default thing??? I'm not even sure where to look for that! It seems extremely common but my experience could be misdirecting me. Many games explicitly state that mafia can communicate at all times- it's required to be stated for Normal games according to the Encryptor wiki page, and I've only played Normals and Opens.

Why are we even arguing about this??

my point was that you had the tone of someone who

does

know how PTs work because you're scum in this game, and in lying about it, you oversold it.

don't believe this is a remotely genuine accusation

just picking out something irrelevant and trying to make a big deal of it

[petapan]

E-1 someone hammer

Should we really cut the day this short?

this is irrelevant since black was dead but lol it was page goddamn 25 with caught scum that's a perfect spot to end the day

[petapan]

sad greyice is also getting replaced because if he was here i would be like "yo let's yeet xyzzy"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Fuck it.

Vote : Xyzzy

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You convinced me with that last line.

(He is doing okay just super HYPER busy with work)

[Aureal]

Hey petapan when you get the chance can you answer this question for me? If you had night actions in this game and their effect was not revealed to you before you chose which to use, would you ever target the person who partway through day one said "oh by the way I just realized I'm probably a Miller" and if so, why?

Also, I think I might have seen somewhere that you're also catboi?

What if she's mafia who thought there was a 3P and that's why she went all-out on hebi? Wouldn't mafia want to figure out the 3P, maybe even moreso than town who's just clueless to its existence?

this is

probably not a post scum makes particularly about someone who is burying their partner

caveat being that someone who hasn't rolled scum in 17 years could have a very different meta wrt my expectations for how scum generally play

but it's just a very out there post

I really don't see what's out there about the idea that scum in mutiball are going to want to at least start off by scumhunting the other team. But I do seem to get that reaction a lot.

I'm not really even sure what you mean by burying their partner, even... I was talking about LLD there wasn't I? I grow ever more suspicious that she is a hebi partner but you aren't on that boat.

[petapan]

Hey petapan when you get the chance can you answer this question for me? If you had night actions in this game and their effect was not revealed to you before you chose which to use, would you ever target the person who partway through day one said "oh by the way I just realized I'm probably a Miller" and if so, why?

1.

Also, I think I might have seen somewhere that you're also catboi?

2.

What if she's mafia who thought there was a 3P and that's why she went all-out on hebi? Wouldn't mafia want to figure out the 3P, maybe even moreso than town who's just clueless to its existence?

this is

probably not a post scum makes particularly about someone who is burying their partner

caveat being that someone who hasn't rolled scum in 17 years could have a very different meta wrt my expectations for how scum generally play

but it's just a very out there post

I really don't see what's out there about the idea that scum in mutiball are going to want to at least start off by scumhunting the other team. But I do seem to get that reaction a lot.

3.

I'm not really even sure what you mean by burying their partner, even... I was talking about LLD there wasn't I? I grow ever more suspicious that she is a hebi partner but you aren't on that boat.

4.

1.

sure, why not? if someone is a claimed miller and you strongly suspected that person was scum it makes sense to target them with a randomized night action. the downside is very low as opposed to targeting a townread where you could potentially kill/block a townie. i guess there's a possibility you could waste a cop check on a claimed miller but that's still a pretty minute possibility?

i wouldn't personally have scumread greyICE off day 1 but i can see her having that read

2.

yes, that's my alt. if you're going to hold one newbie game where i had trash reads against me, don't

3.

i just think it's unlikely to be something that a player with a scum role PM comes up with. it's paranoid and inventive of a possible scum/3p conflict that maybe makes sense to a townie with no idea how a game would be balanced and not a scumbuddy who knows hebi is full of it

4.

Yes I'm saying scum-you doesn't start trying to push town-LLD when she has hebi dead to rights and most of the town is following her on it

[petapan]

Wait I thought miller was exclusively cop results and the others had corresponding names (gravedigger)

Is this a new thing?

I don't know but I specifically remember a game with a miller who returned guilty track results within the past few months.

and given someone claimed MILLER and that's a claim that has to die at some point, I figured checking it and getting ZERO RESULTS, either targetting or being targetted by was suspicious and also didn't make sense for a miller.

Why are you okay with his Miller claim being "oh that line of text in every role pm of town that is "there is a mechanic that is not known" and he goes "oh that makes me miller, miller claim"

or the self-revival claim

this is like

completely illogical for she'd approach a partner day 2 if she'd hellbussed one on day 1 especially when most of the game was willing to give GI a free pass

[petapan]

Like my heart says vote Xyzzy they're obvious scum.

as far as I can tell, the only thing I've done that you've said was scummy was have a differing philosophy about how to respond to a survivor claim. do you have any other basis for that at all?

woof