Open 876 - Fire and Ice - Postgame

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: Drew

Die monster, you don’t belong in this world!

It was not by my hand I’m once again given flesh! I was called here, by humans, who wish to pay

me

tribute!

[Oclaxian Empire]

Ego

mod said i could ego on main fwiw

[Oclaxian Empire]

Thinking about the setup's sidedness and how this one would change it just makes me want to run a game. But that's responsibility and responsibility is blehhh. Someone give me 50 scumtells to think about instead, please.

I can give you 49 instead, does that work?

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: dragon wagon feels bad but i have not read anything why dragon is being wagoned. bianco what did u see from dragon?

@mod - v/la wed and thurs.

we’ll likely be posting some thoughts while stoned thurs too, but more than likely will not be around thurs.

[Oclaxian Empire]

UNVOTE: drew Bear

What's with all the unvotes?

Good point.
VOTE: Mala

grim: this is the only thing that dragon has posted that would be worth voting over, but if it is this, pls eli5 it for the class bc im not seeing it.

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: like sure, ig the vote is bad? but even then its like, a stretch of what would be considered bad in rvs/very start of actual game? i still dont rlly see why it’d warrant a serious vote. kori also is failing to see it, so im wondering if im just stupid or theres rlly nothing of note there

[Oclaxian Empire]

i highly disagree w/ the reasoning bianco gave, and i strongly dislike the other system voting that too. it feels more along the lines of continuing rvs.

also for the other system voting it - it comes before bianco’s reasoning which means the two either see the same thing which is mildly weird to me, or two different things and i rlly dont think there are two distinct things wrong w/ that post.

[Oclaxian Empire]

not rlly. dragon hasnt posted anything noteworthy outside of rvs things. ig 43 is also bad, but like, it’s also rvs at the time it was posted so i’m more willing to look at it as rvs posting until there’s reason to look at it again? idk. i just did not like the votes on skim, and looking at it more closely i still dont like it.

[Oclaxian Empire]

multiball is hard tbh

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: well theres the difference lol. we dont read alts as their main, nor do we metaread bc meta is shit.

also elaborate on those vibes.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Kori: I think I agree with that. We missed it on skim, but I think I agree with that.

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: dragon wagon feels bad but i have not read anything why dragon is being wagoned. bianco what did u see from dragon?

@mod - v/la wed and thurs.

we’ll likely be posting some thoughts while stoned thurs too, but more than likely will not be around thurs.

They literally just posted their reasoning..

grim: and i feel me saying i didnt read anything related to it was p. clear, so why say this?

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: python

i strongly dislike ur reason of “this person might be an alt of X”

quit main hunting.

[Oclaxian Empire]

not rlly. dragon hasnt posted anything noteworthy outside of rvs things. ig 43 is also bad, but like, it’s also rvs at the time it was posted so i’m more willing to look at it as rvs posting until there’s reason to look at it again? idk. i just did not like the votes on skim, and looking at it more closely i still dont like it.

i agree that 43 looks slightly worse than 45 but bianco's reasoning is pretty straightforward and makes sense to me

Kori: Bianco’s reasoning is straightforward, yes. We just disagree that it warrants a serious vote.

[Oclaxian Empire]

i looked at two votes on dragon + hpe saying it wanted to vote and made a decision without reading why ppl were voting it.

[Oclaxian Empire]

also im at work lol what do u want me to do, read the game in full-depth?

[Oclaxian Empire]

also im at work lol what do u want me to do, read the game in full-depth?

[Oclaxian Empire]

we literally are not going to be around tmrw or thurs. there is a giant fuck-off inspection at work thurs and we are going to have to prep for it and will be exhausted, and we are actively prepping today. so we r trying to give thoughts b4 we r vla for two days

[Oclaxian Empire]

its ok to not have an opinion

yeah but leaving the game w/ a slot that has literally zero content isnt smth i particularly want to do, nor anyone else in the system

[Oclaxian Empire]

Not really we just think Python is scum, but Dragon wagon plays into that a little.

[Oclaxian Empire]

The more I look at it the more it’s because of the Dragon vote, but a little for mainhunting/general read on Dragon, which I guess is simply the vote?

[Oclaxian Empire]

I mean yeah. There’s no reason to hunt for someone’s main because if they’re playing on an alt, (unless it’s blatantly a gimmick alt like a couple of my alts, like Totally Not Korina), odds are they are trying to play differently than usual.

I just do not like the concept of “this player is using an alt; I’m going to read them like they’re playing on main” UNLESS ITS A GIMMICK ACCOUNT. I don’t think DE is playing this account for gimmicks, therefore, in my eyes, trying to metaread/push someone based off their main is scummy.

Town does not need that to kill someone in my eyes - only scum do. Town can find a genuine reason someone is scum and kill them. Scum cannot find a truly genuine reason, because the town player is not scum, and in most cases, scum know they’re not scum!

[Oclaxian Empire]

This game is obviously different but I still think the core principle of “town don’t need a reason like that to scumread/wagon someone” still applies in multiball, but with multiball it could legit just be scum trying to kill suspected scum

[Oclaxian Empire]

I think that is the whole gimmick we can expect from the account but I don’t think that’s the sole reason DE would sign up for a game under a gimmick account.

[Oclaxian Empire]

I think DE is the type of person to do that for a joke and seriously play differently after that point.

[Oclaxian Empire]

And we’re just gonna ignore your meta read LOL.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Gonna eat dinner and I’ll read the thread and likely have some more comprehensive thoughts before V/LA tmrw

[Oclaxian Empire]

I think there's some level of gimmick involved.

And that's why I'm a little wary of Dragon. The vote thing actually feels like awkward RVS stuff which I guess he's known for, but combined with the Ice Mafia opening post, it feels worse. Because if my account was named icedragon and I rolled ice here, I'd find it absolutely hilarious to just come out and say so.

i think the entire gimmick boils down to "haha look at funni ice dragon in the funni fire and ice game! haha pls laugh!" and nothing else.

I don't really think python "main hunting" is AI though

i dont like it regardless. if it were to be a hidden alt, that's super fucking disgusting and anyone trying to figure out the main of a hidden alt should feel bad abt trying to unmask someone. in this case, where its a public alt, i still think trying to link playstyle or main hunt is rlly bad. it doesn't read as anything other than "i need a reason to formulate a read on this person - i know,

what's their main

. that's horrible. i hate it. python has said that they do meta read, which sure. w/e. i can agree to that. but i don't think trying to use meta from the main acc in this game is viable.

Oh no you got Nameless to mech post

-A

It's actually optimal to lim every day. Since scum targetting the same person stops the nightkill that leaves a

G

/(

T

+

G

) chance of shooting the other groupscum, and a 1/(

T

² + 2

T

) chance of both targetting the same townie if a townie is getting shot

The chance of limming scum is

S

/(P - 1)

Plugging in the numbers that means that for now a lim gives an expected result of 8/12 chance of limming town whereas the chance of scum nightkilling town (Ignoring any doctor plays) is 9/11 - 1/99 = 80/99

Spoiler: What the letters mean

P - number of players alive

T

- number of town alive

S

- number of scum alive

G

- number of enemy groupscum alive

-Nameless

thats cool and all but can u explain it in laymans terms.

This one thinks it trusts Python, and of course it's got a scumread on Ice for his vote on Mala, but otherwise it's... rather lacking in reads honestly. Need to give this game a look over sometime and try to come up with SOMETHING.

explain python read.

But...but...I like her

I like Aureal, she is good people, some say the best.

But who doesn't love a good wagon?

Or, and here me out, how about a Bianco wagon?

Either/or to drown out the mech speak.

Why not? My vote is still on mala from RVS (where is the sweet kitty anyway?)

VOTE: Bianco

Yay Black!

VOTE: Bianco

gross. i dont have a particular read on bianco, but i think in general bianco is more likely town for early game posting alone bc it doesnt strike me as smth scum would want to do, (be the first serious vote to end rvs), esp with crosskills possible. still cant read drew, and i find it gross bc of that. black... idk. i think blacks posting are mostly nai, but i did catch a post i want to respond to in detail.

[Oclaxian Empire]

what abt their play is making u townread them.

[Oclaxian Empire]

But in multiball like this, and if you are scum there is always a chance that the lim-bait is scum. Personally I wouldn't overthink things on D1 and just try to find the easiest path and just hope for the best.

I think I agree with this. Everyone is trying to lim scum D1, even scum

ive been sitting on this post for a while trying to think about it and thought about it while showering, but i still think it comes from town more often than not. i'm basing this off town of salem coven which while i know is not the most accurate thing to base forum mafia plays off of, i do think its generally a good thing to look at since some mechanics do come into play here.

mainly, i think today is the only day scum killing scum is bad, and i think tomorrow its still maybe bad to do so? like sure, both factions can be crosskilled by the other, which is bad for them, and if they target the same person, neither of them kill someone, which is also bad. but the other faction has extra killpower which both sides desperately need for right now bc the sooner the game gets to one side achieving parity, the better for that faction. leaving alive the other people in the game who can kill ppl for you and get you to your wincon sooner is beneficial.

assuming a townie is killed today, and both kills are successful, it's a 6v2v2 which is a so much better position for both factions than say a 7v2v1 bc now if the one of the two goons is killed today its rlly bad for both mafia factions. (if it goes into a 7v2 on n2 with one faction being elim'd entirely, that's better for that one faction ofc, but its unlikely that one side finds and kills both of the other goons at this point.)

theres another point i think is inherent to multiball that makes scum trying to actively kill the other scum bad today too: if you kill both of the other scum today, u have to act like ur solving the game, which, depends on the player on whether this is good or not. multiball is inherently difficult if u roll town, and getting rid of ur easy way to look townie, (trying to scumhunt the other team), its gonna be rougher for u to win, especially if its smth like 9v2 where both the goons of the same faction are killed at the start, or even a 9v1v1.

tl;dr - scum are not going to want to kill scum today, but will act like they're actively trying to find scum. any other day? fuck if i know. its probably advantageous to scumhunt for all sides starting tmrw.

[Oclaxian Empire]

i dont like it regardless. if it were to be a hidden alt, that's super fucking disgusting and anyone trying to figure out the main of a hidden alt should feel bad abt trying to unmask someone.

You voted us before Dragons main being public was known, do you think that mainhunting a secret alt is scummy or townie?

-A

152, 153

[Oclaxian Empire]

prodge. will be around to read tmrw to read and reply to the game, but took an edible tonight and will be unable to respond

[Oclaxian Empire]

yeah ive been mildly keeping up with game and i oddly tr you on my skims which makes me think you're actually just scum LOL

[Oclaxian Empire]

i don't think you're playing any differently, i just genuinely think you have a townie tone thus far

[Oclaxian Empire]

i am high drew. that's whats weird.

[Oclaxian Empire]

i'm gonna read and post some light thoughts from the last 10 pages as well. i may or may not be able to remember why i thought these things in the morning.

- i don't like koichi gambit
- i don't like black being pushed for meta reasons, and i don't like python for that, but i've already expressed anti-meta. i mildly dislike hpe from it, but that's more so disagreement of opinion rather than content of post.
- i'm mostly skimming over the meta argument, but i do like the kokichi vote, but i also disagree w/ the idea of koichi doing it. but i think it's just like, strictly worse to try to gambit out yourself on this if you're scum, unless you really think your partner can deepwolf the rest of the game?
- i don't know what to make of koichi being so dead-set on black being scum? nor like, really what it's being based off of. koichi, would u please like to explain that?
- osuka posting feels townie, i think? i didn't sit down and read it, more so skim osuka and just go "yeah that looks townie i think"
- i think python becomes more scummy for icedragon saying he wanted to play differently on this account, and trying to use meta for that on an alt is just still - scummy, but it could also just be the actual vehement *hatred* we have for stuff like that making us think it's scummy.
- python and us are both systems. we just sign our posts less often, and aren't signing because its hard to tell who's actually fronting.
- bulge v python feels ok to me. i think bulge is probably town, but i was already tring bulge from what i could remember of this game.
- koichi claiming to want to be scum in this setup / not reading the setup feels townie? i think its mostly bc town might look at the numbers of the setup and go "that looks fun" and not look at special mechanics, where scum are forced to look at special mechanics?
- hi enchant!

[Oclaxian Empire]

ok goodnight. i will be back tomorrow and not high

[Oclaxian Empire]

Ok, but scum don't want to make town lose, they want to win, don't they?

In order for scum to win they need to make town lose though?

[Oclaxian Empire]

I’m not gonna read any mech talk I hope you know that. I literally did not read any of the last three pages because of that + EV discussion.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Furtive played more or less the same way as this in turf war and was town, and has cited the exact same thing that Black just posted

[Oclaxian Empire]

Or if not the exact same thing, something along those very lines

[Oclaxian Empire]

I also really don’t like Python acting like its set in stone their the d2 elim, like there’s a lot that can happen between now and that point and it feels very weird just being so defeatist over it?

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: lorne was a racist troll. idt u can claim his play is indicative of anything

also wanting a lim in general can be townie, but not rlly as townie when theres six days left in deadline

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: also lorne was banned for ban evasion lol

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: also lorne was banned for ban evasion lol

Quoting to give a notification

Oclax when you come back you mind rereading Drew's 523/534/537 and seeing if you can see what we're seeing wrt being more focused on breaking any associatives instead of defending his tr?

-A

grim: we've been reading. we're players who function better when ppl are actively addressing us and interacting w/ us rather than just reading and replying to other ppl. a lot of the game state thus far has not been stuff that we like reading thru and have been relatively disengaged with the game as a result. we still think bulge is more likely town than not, but that also comes from we really think the ppl on ur wagon are town, and the ppl on bulge's wagon are scum, and that makes us feel like ur more likely to be scum, and bulge is more likely to be town. tho, i rlly do not think the solve is simply those on bulge wagon are all scum, but i think there is at least two scum there.

im not rlly seeing what ur saying about drew trying to break associates, but thats mostly bc i don't think drew+bulge is s+s of the same alignment. i could see a universe where drew and bulge are both mafia, but diff factions, but i still dont think bulge is flipping scum in general. drew, i need to review kori's notes on, bc i remember kori said they think drew is town, and that makes them think drew actually rolled scum.

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: i do agree tho, looking at them more closely, drew seems to not be focused on defending his tr, but i don't think that specifically makes him and bulge aligned w/ one another

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: ig here's the question too: what about that makes u think drew/bulge are aligned w/ one another? bc i'm more so seeing it as drew trying to setup bulge to be in a worse spot post-flip

pedit: we cannot read drew ever. every time we scumread drew, drew is town. i think the only time we actually tr'd drew he was scum and that was a game where he was a mentor.

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: i do agree tho, looking at them more closely, drew seems to not be focused on defending his tr, but i don't think that specifically makes him and bulge aligned w/ one another

Yeah honestly wouldn't you WANT to defend your scumpartner in this hypothetical Drew/Bulge scumteam?

wdym

[Oclaxian Empire]

Drel: So what do you make of it then Bianco? I haven't looked at your ISO, nor the game in general, but what do you make of it? Do you think Drew/Bulge are aligned with one another?

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: bianco doesnt think the two r aligned. why do u think everyone thinks they are?

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: so, radical idea osuka, vote python?

[Oclaxian Empire]

both e-2 last i checked

[Oclaxian Empire]

I am opposed to voting Drew right now. If it's a matter of it's Drew or no-lim, I could maybe be swayed into it, but I currently do not want to vote Drew.

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: Mala

I still think Python flips scum more often than not, but Mala has done nothing and I’m ok with killing this.

E-2

[Oclaxian Empire]

UNVOTE:

[Oclaxian Empire]

Not ok ending day yet.

[Oclaxian Empire]

I’m ok with Enchant, but I don’t want to end the day just yet.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Not Enchant, Mala

[Oclaxian Empire]

Grim mostly wants to look at some things first before it wants to end the day, and it told me that’d be later.

[Oclaxian Empire]

furtive provides no information if he flips yeah

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: we’d still prefer python above all tbh, but mala is ok ig

also

@mod v/la 24

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: python

back here again dunno the e-X

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: idk what koris thoughts were b4 on not flipping python but i want this more

[Oclaxian Empire]

i can make a case tmrw when we are not horribly tilted @ work

[Oclaxian Empire]

well if ur dead u dont have to worry abt this game anymore and we kill a scum so its win/win

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: bulge is not flipping today and we will death tunnel anyone who tries

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: python or u, ur choice

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: have u not been reading the game at all

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: bc with python being a system, and us being a system, and me signing my posts i feel like u have to not he reading to not know i am

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: koichi

die

[Oclaxian Empire]

i still think python should die today but there is something deeply primal abt someone admitting they’re not reading a players fucking posts that makes me want to policy them

[Oclaxian Empire]

pls use ur eyes and read koichi

[Oclaxian Empire]

u have played w/ kori b4 but likely not my acc kori made for me which is vex vience

[Oclaxian Empire]

we are not a hydra. never call us a hydra again.

[Oclaxian Empire]

im way too tilted to explain what a system is

[Oclaxian Empire]

pls look at the speakeasy thread which is plurality discussion thread. thats all

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: i want koichi dead bc i am tilted out of my fucking mind because work, and koichi has openly admitted to anti-town behavior and i want to policy that. idc if koichi claims doctor. its fucking anti-town behavior and i want to policy it.

koichi should die. thats all.

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: i want koichi dead bc i am tilted out of my fucking mind because work, and koichi has openly admitted to anti-town behavior and i want to policy that. idc if koichi claims doctor. its fucking anti-town behavior and i want to policy it.

koichi should die. thats all.

What anti-town behavior? You mean giving two clear mafia?

grim: srry u said ur not reading my posts so im not reading urs anymore

[Oclaxian Empire]

Grim signs its posts, so if you'd read them at all I don't buy you are confused

now

grim: i havent signed all my posts but i do sign the majority and type significantly differently from kori + others so it should be fairly obvious who i am when i post

[Oclaxian Empire]

I’m possibly open to Black but last I remember Grim said that Black is townie to some degree. I wanna read Black before I consider Black as a wagon.

I think our preferred elim today is Koichi, but I’d still love Python-slot, or possibly Osuka today.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Osuka’s just posting style tbh, and not really anything major. I’m just opposed to Black because Grim is tring Black, and I think I see what it thinks wrt Black.

[Oclaxian Empire]

The current gamestate is very :/ overall and I don’t think a Python-slot wagon is rlly that good, but we could save the mod replacing the slot

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: bianco

grim: not our pref but its ok from what i remember

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: intent to hammer in about an hour if nobody has objections

[Oclaxian Empire]

i would like to hammer before we have to sleep fwiw

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: oh lol i forgot we voted bianco already.

[Oclaxian Empire]

fwiw i would like for day to end

[Oclaxian Empire]

?

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: Enchant

grim: i dislike enchant's entrance

[Oclaxian Empire]

grim: i'll read black soon

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: enchant

Bro was a fucking scummy entrance

VOTE: Enchant

grim: i dislike enchant's entrance

Uhhhh. Why? What do you expect from Enchant?

not to claim the doctor is a good kill

[Oclaxian Empire]

i disliked enchant's play yesterday anyways, but this just makes me dislike them more.

if the doctor's alive, it leads into two situations if they claim and scum cc:

1) they win the 1v1: great, scum have to play wifom over who actually kills the doctor, because if they both do so, the doctor's alive and they just wasted a night. also a scum died. that's great.
2) they lose the 1v1: not great, but at least a scum is guaranteed to die tmrw.

alternatively, if the doctor is left alone:
- scum still have to play the wifom over who kills the doctor, which means that there is a good chance that the doctor just survives the night because both teams try to kill the doctor, or neither team tries to, thinking the other will do it, and we have a confirmed townie going into day?

[Oclaxian Empire]

bc fire mafia found the doctor which means they feel comfortable in their position in the game to try to shoot someone who had little impact on the game?

[Oclaxian Empire]

oskua's reads were probably right, or close to right.

[Oclaxian Empire]

also for the first part - hpe kill doesn't sit right with me. i'm still trying to figure out why.

[Oclaxian Empire]

we tuned out most of the 1v1s that didn't involve us, but i don't think hpe was widely tr'd like u said, and i'm p. sure hpe wasn't deeply involved in any 1v1s.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Cool, no matter what a scum dies if they claim doctor, meaning the doctor kill is always a kill that benefits scum. Not town.

[Oclaxian Empire]

no because i think enchant's reaction isn't a townie reaction and i want it dead for that exact reason.

[Oclaxian Empire]

no because i think enchant's reaction isn't a townie reaction and i want it dead for that exact reason.

Took long to process, why so long to vote then?

Unless you waited to see if someone else vote me for this?

Uh, or, get this, I was at work when I posted that, I work in food service as management, right down the road from a high school, which is busy when they get out of school. Takes an hour to get home from work because I take the bus, and then I fell asleep and checked the thread.

But sure, it’s clearly that, not y’know, anything consistent with my posting times.

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: Mala

Re-read, Mala’s ok to die today.

E-1

[Oclaxian Empire]

I will be back tomorrow, work is busy

[Oclaxian Empire]

I want yessiree dead. That’s my prodge

[Oclaxian Empire]

They

[Oclaxian Empire]

Not he

[Oclaxian Empire]

More after work. Currently in kitchen

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: blackVOTE:

not consulting kori on this, gut read.

-grim

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: black

not consulting kori on this, gut read.

-grim

tag fix

[Oclaxian Empire]

to explain the yessiree must die thing: i dont think yessiree has done anything substantial to make us reconsider python being scum.

i think black is just scum on gut alone + koichi’s reads, since i think koichi was killed for reads since there’s little reason to actually kill that slot otherwise imo.

[Oclaxian Empire]

i know this ignores two scum, but i dont see how we win this outside of scum constantly crosskilling, so i will settle for killing most of the scum

[Oclaxian Empire]

then why would koki be murked

[Oclaxian Empire]

ur also ignoring gut feeling

[Oclaxian Empire]

And if I was scum trying to save Bulge, why wouldn't I just jump on the mobile Aureal wagon instead of start a new one with you?

also bulge and u aren’t aligned is what this means, but likely are opposing factions.

[Oclaxian Empire]

I mean I still think it’s impossible for town to win, so now I’m just playing for which scum team wins?

Like there’s still four scum. We can’t kill all the scum unless they both crosskill and we kill a scum today. So, really anyone is fine to die today, and it doesn’t matter who’s team you’re aligned with unless you flip scum, and we see a scum kill tonight.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Like: Town killed today, two crosskills leaves us in 2v1v1 which isn’t winnable for town, unless scum crosskill again.

Scum killed today, and one crossskill tonight is either: 2v1v1 or a 2v2 - which isn’t winnable.

Scum killed today and two crosskills tonight is the only case where town *can* win, since it’s a 3v1 but requires two correct elims. It’s possible we do so, but that’s require the two scum to shoot the one while they hope for a townie kill where scum will be aiming for the cross or lose.

[Oclaxian Empire]

i mean the same could be said about python, but i rlly dont think the remaining townies are {you, us, yessiree}

[Oclaxian Empire]

No matter what someone’s playing kingmaker and i’d rather it be us than scum.

[Oclaxian Empire]

And if I was scum trying to save Bulge, why wouldn't I just jump on the mobile Aureal wagon instead of start a new one with you?

also bulge and u aren’t aligned is what this means, but likely are opposing factions.

I was gonna say this is a strange take but then the more I read about it, the more it made sense from ur pov

So this means bulge is more likely scum than town in ur pov?

kori: i'm a little stoned which is why i'm signing my posts for now, but yes, i think! i'm not fully remembering my logic to get to this point, but i think on average yeah. it might be because it's grim's thoughts too, but i think i see the train of logic to get there.

right now, both scum teams care about keeping their partner alive, and care about nobody else dying. preferrably, it'd be the other team, but a town kill is perfectly fine in either scum team's eyes! simply because it's not them and pushes them closer to their autowin if they can get rid of the other team.

town, like i've said before, doesn't really care about who they kill. they can't win unless scum crosskill multiple times, or even cross on both sides with finding the correct person, which isn't extremely likely to happen at this point. so, it means that bulge and black can't be aligned since in order to be aligned black has to be throwing, or really banking on being able to win the crosskills which, once again - is throwing because if you fail, you just lose compared to a guaranteed win in simply killing anyone but your partner. black aligned with bulge only does this if bulge is inevitable, which, i mean isn't really at the point it was done? the other team are not going to quickhammer because they autoloss on that unless they can somehow explain and convince the oddity of voting shortly after flipped scum

[Oclaxian Empire]

kori: i don't know if the above makes any sense, or if i'll be able to defend it in the morning if it's incomprehensible but it's my current thoughts that *make* sense when i'm talking

[Oclaxian Empire]

VOTE: Bulge

Sorry Enchant, stealing this one from you

[Oclaxian Empire]

Thank god its over.

[Oclaxian Empire]

We should’ve killed Yessiree long ago but that’s my bad tbh

[Oclaxian Empire]

I think I’m just done with playing mafia for good at this point.

[Oclaxian Empire]

This game was just, blegh