TM 2023 | Mini Normal | Endgame

[Freedom]

Cool.
Something, I forgot to ask is why I'm scum with xof?

[mastina]

Hey I was just in a bad car accident.

I fucking suck for making so many excuses and delaying so much.

[Freedom]

Hey I was just in a bad car accident.

I fucking suck for making so many excuses and delaying so much.

Sorry to hear that.
Hope you get better soon.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hey I was just in a bad car accident.

I fucking suck for making so many excuses and delaying so much.

It's just a game, your needs come first. I hope you're okay under the circumstances.

[mastina]

Hey I was just in a bad car accident.

I fucking suck for making so many excuses and delaying so much.

(am physically fine, emotionally not so much, and am indisposed for hours rn. There will be a need for a tow, and long drive home, but yeah, not free rn--silver lining, my boss MIGHT get my shift tomorrow covered so later tonight might be able to)

[DeasVail]

bro how do you have the time???

Well that's signature town!Shirou for you, always thinking about the game to the point of distracting himself from real life tasks unfortunately

I think I've mostly settled on at least one scum in Mastina/DeasVail for now though so I've been able to shift my attention elsewhere and just...wait

VOTE: DeasVail

DeasVail seems to have a bit more resistance than Mastina, I'm interested on seeing where this goes.

This almost seems designed to counter my assertion that you were pushing Mastina opportunistically.

Especially since it's weird to say I had more resistance than Mastina, when you were voting Mastina and no one voted with you, and you voted me right after DGB did

[DeasVail]

On xofelf (and also Ausuka), I felt pretty sure that they would have bitten harder at the opportunity to lim me if either of them were scum.

Xofelf's recent posting on me I suppose

couldddd

fit the vibe of preparing to suspect me, but I think I have been a bit just generally flatter during this game day and so the commenting on that does make sense, and xofelf still feels like town to me.

Freedom did feel like the most likely Shirou-partner to me but I think mostly I'm interested in thoughts on what I've said about Shirou and my concerns about how he's played today (and to some degree Day 3).

[PenguinPower]

Votecount 4.07

DeasVail (1):

Shirou

Freedom (1):

DrippingGoofball

Not Voting (5): Freedom, Ausuka, DeasVail, xofelf, mastina

With 7 alive it takes 4 to eliminate.

Day 4 deadline is in (expired on 2023-05-18 09:20:33)

Mod Notes

Have fun!

[DeasVail]

DV tries to paraphrase the neighbourhood

Pregame:

- Koba says that they will think anyone who doesn't talk there in pregame is scum
- Ausuka responds by saying she might be scum
- Koba claims vanilla neighbour
- Ausuka makes a joke
- Koba says they forgot who Ausuka's team is
- Some back-and-forth between Ausuka and Koba about their teams or something
- Ausuka claims some form of fruit vendor
- Koba says they want to be targeted
- DV says hi
- Xof says hi but will be back later due to RL thing.
- Datisi says hi to xof and xof says hi back
- Koba says that there's scum in the hood and that it's DV and/or xof
- DV and Ausuka joke about xof being anti-town/scum for prioritising an RL thing over mafia
- Xof says something to the effect of "too bad and now I'm going to sleep" (not a quote)
- Koba attacks Xof's tone and claims a townread on Ausuka for her claiming
- Ausuka responds by saying she doesn't scumread xof
- I say that I read xof as town
- I question Koba's townread on Ausuka (no response until game-start)

And that's it for pre-Day 1 neighbourhood activity.

Tune in next time for Day 1!

(Also Ausuka/Xof feel free to correct/clarify anything)

PEdit: I don't know if it was a thing before but I like the mod note

[xofelf]

That's more or less it, yeah. Also the RL thing was a date, and it was very nice, and sleep that night was also really good, thanks for asking

I hope everything will be okay mastina.

It's Mother's Day today, so I've got some things, but look, my post was more to give not just y'all a sense of what i'm thinking, but also a pin for myself to start from on the things i want to clear up for myself. I'm always waffly, it's the biggest complaint I get about my gameplay. I haven't played scum in a long time, so I don't remember if it's also something I do as scum. I just find it difficult to have concrete definite opinions and stances on people unless i have information that I know has to be correct. That's just.. how I am. I get it's often shit scum does, but that's not why I'm doing it.

[Ausuka]

Ok so, I'm currently thinking eliminating in {freedom, deasvail} is the optimal move because everyone has different roles. This creates a very powerful synergy between shirou and xoffy, where they both either prevent kills or make any kill lead to a 1v1 the next day. Additionally, dgb is a jailkeeper and can stop scum from killing or even protect shirou, and mastina can check that people aren't fakeclaiming. There are definitely, like, scum in this group, don't get me wrong, but scum still have to play with caution to avoid outing themselves.

As DkKoba would say, "solving by mechs is cringe", however I believe sometimes it is necessary to harness cringe for the sake of the town


Full disclosure since i have mostly been talking about this game in discord rather than the actual game thread, DV is probably the more likely vote here, which I wouldn't have done not-so-long ago but his push on shirou for not wanting to get roleblocked gave me bad vibes and also reminded me about the thing with his push on Kowahbungah earlier that I didn't like. Shea and tweetie have also been telling me the scumteam is mastina/deasvail and like they are better at mafia than me. Also like, looking back I think 699 to 701 feels like... I mean, there's nothing there that I think town *wouldn't* write but it's also exactly the sort of post I think scum would write - DV seems very concerned with like joining in the pressure on koba and being opposed to them without joining the wagon there. I think generally, scum like to set themselves up on different 'sides' of debates so ideally every town is townreading at least one scum member.

I'm not going to vote for him right now because freedom is still ???. and i was like "Shea why are you townreading freedom" and he was all "I forgor " I think part of it is he was saying like, arko treated koba differently in his readslist, and he thought scum would be more cautious. I disagreed with that because koba asked for those reads and I think that would lead him to talk about koba first. Maybe i should just reread like the whole arko wagon situation and that would be better than trying to read freedom? I have no idea what freedom's reads are right now

[mastina]

Alright, so I'm finally here.

First, let's review a bit of how D2 actually went.

There

was

a lot of suspicion on me near the beginning of the day.

If Ausuka isn't scum I believe there's at least one in [Mastina, DV, Kowah] and that's it

I think it improved my read on Ydrasse (I wrote a post about it in the hood overnight) and the main people of focus for me today will probably be DGB, Freedom and Mastina.

VOTE: Mastina

Dgb
Will you yeet Mastina with me?

wrt mastina my goodwill has burned out at this point, i'm waiting on her to speak and i get that she's been going through it irl but she needs to contribute something more, my townread can't really go farther than what she gave in the neighborhood

But then, that changed after I began posting (whadda ya know, when a player isn't as active they're less townread but the moment they're around more, people remember--I wonder why preventing a player from being active is a proven-effective scum tactic?):

Mastina is so town, it hurts.

I townread mastina more and kowahbungah less from the d2 posts so far

Ali thinks Mala is town, Mastina is town, and also that Mastina has really good reads in this game specifically

I don't think {DV, koba, mastina, shirou, xofelf} are scum rn - I'm not like super hard townreading everyone in this group but I can't see myself going after any of them in the foreseeable future

While Shirou personally retained suspicion there, Shirou's teammate allegedly didn't.

And then, against my will, Ydrasse outted my role, and--briefly--the suspicion manifested again.

VOTE: mastina

That's interesting because mastina was perhaps the slot I was most interested on voting today from an associative viewpoint.

I've noticed quite a few people shading her but not quite committing to it.

Those are some interesting thoughts Ydra. Need to give them some time to marinate in my brain when I'm not sleep-deprived, but you might be on to something.

I can get behind this and believe it.
VOTE: mastina

My team thinks mastina could be scum and what (I think) Ydra said about mastina targeting Mala and Mala's action being interfered with, could mean mastina is scum.

But then I came back in and gave my perspective, and after I did?

After I did, let's see what happens.

Mastina is bleeding town so hard that the forensic team has to be called.

Ngl I feel like someone else targeted me as well.
I mean I basically counter claimed ausuka and hardcore crumbed my role.
I feel like scum!Mastina would have picked up on it.

(I'm pretty sure this is Malakittens believing I'm town?)

VOTE: mastina balling

Koba, the

flipped scum

, voted me, AFTER the nature of my claim was clarified. Not before--AFTER.

Ausuka and Shirou both separately asked me if I had more to claim, presumably due to Malakittens claiming my visit to her and them wanting me to clarify.

I am putting it out here right now.

I’m HIGHLY against a Mastina Lim.
I don’t think she’s lying about being a role cop.
I have discussed it a bit with Kuribo.
She’s playing the role cop exactly how I’d think she’d play it.
She tried to clear her one of her two scum reads {Koba/I}.
I just think I also got blocked or something as well in addition to her targetting me.

Step 1: Mastina-scum semi-publicly proclaims she's going to target Mala with an investigative ability
Step 2: Mala gets roleblocked
Step 3: Doesn't seem like profit for mastina-scum?

Malakittens, the player who was

most vocal about eliminating me D1

, who started D2 voting me and was pushing for my elimination, did a 180 and went from hard-scumreading me to hard-townreading me.

I rotated my brain cells a bit and my conclusion is that Mastina is like ~probably?~ town but would still like her to like claim properly

Then, I provide the clarification they were looking for.

Meanwhile, the Kowahbunga wagon had manifested from that neighborhood. We started with this.

Freedom (3):

DeasVail, Malakittens, Ausuka

url=viewtopic.php?p=13760398#p13760398]I was correct in stating that there was a Freedom wagon[/url]. DV, Mala, Ausuka, and myself, all voted for Freedom.

Freedom got

four different slots voting him D2

, although by the time I voted Freedom, Malakittens and Ausuka had started the Kowahbunga wagon:

VOTE: kow

VOTE: Kowahbungah

Even Shirou had me as not a bottom three, and Shirou was just about the only one to not outright call me town.

And it kept coming.

After giving it some thought I still don’t think mastina-scum makes much sense and I’m wary of the votes from kowah and koba

mmm
VOTE: kowah

i want either kowah or freedom, right now i don't know if there's enough info to actually go after mastina despite the night actions being ?, if it were like anyone else i'd think that the loud part was a lie but i can believe mastina may not have noticed + mala corroborated it, also since we know the loud part blah blah, can deal with that later if more role blockery happens

kowah and freedom's posting today is like on the same level to me tbh but i want to push a wagon to be bigger

Ydrasse supported Kowahbunga vs Freedom, and pivoted off of me. While she didn't fully reverse into stating I was town, she also stated it would be easier to solve me with time--meaning, not to deal with on D2.

Which brings us to the infamous quickhammer.

VOTE: kowah I reread and changed my mind.
I don't want this to turn into an ausuka wagon or something

What was happening around that time?

We were discussing me being town.
We were discussing Kowahbunga vs. Freedom.

The main topics were me being town,
And Kowahbunga vs. Freedom.

You can check my homework yourself if you don't believe me. But it's factual that I was not under consideration for a D2 elimination.

Ydrasse didn't support it.
DGB was against it.
DeasVail was against it.
xofelf was against it.
Ausuka was against it.
Malakittens was against it.
I was obviously against it.

That makes 7/11 players on record as being against it--when it took 6 to eliminate.

Now obviously, scum in the above could lie, and hammer me. But it'd take not one but

two

scum in the group above for an elimination on me to go through.

It was impossible to eliminate me that day, and the discussion wasn't about eliminating me.

I said it could be proven with reading--and so I have done precisely that.
My proof is here in the above. I've given you the way the day progressed. You can check my work if you don't believe me but these are the facts.
I had enough people hard-townreading me that I was not possible to eliminate.
The very players who were pushing for my elimination pivoted into defending me after I claimed.
The discussion at the end of the day did not involve a mastina elimination--

The end of D2 was discussion about me being town, and of Freedom/Kowahbunga being scum.

That

is the discussion DKKoba cut short when they quickhammered Kowahbunga. A scumastina doesn't benefit from that; a scumastina is actively harmed by that discussion being disrupted.
In contrast, a town-mastina does benefit from it, and a town-mastina is actively harmed by the discussion being ended prematurely.

[mastina]

Alright, so I've been strugging to get the neighborhoods correct the whole game (I didn't know there was more than one neighborhood until D2), so correct me if this is the wrong distribution.

NEIGHBORHOOD ONE--

Freedom:

Neighbor (A)

DeasVail:

Neighbor (A)

DKKoba:

Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)

xofelf:

Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)
N1, targeted

Ausuka

(no visit, Ausuka hasn't confirmed); N2, targeted

Ydrasse

(targeted by a Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor, nobody else); N3, targeted

mastina

(no visit, mastina confirmed).

NEIGHBORHOOD TWO--

Ausuka:

Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
N2, targeted

Shirou

.

Kowahbunga:

Neighbor (B)

Malakittens:

Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
N1, targeted

???(in neighborhood)

, action failed; N3, targeted

???

, action...where the hell is it? The roleblocker was dead and DGB didn't block Malakittens so where did Mala's fruit go?

Shirou:

Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
N1, targeted

Ydrasse

(unconfirmed); N2, targeted

Malakittens

(unconfirmed); N3, targeted

mastina

(claimed action confirmed to have not succeeded).

NEIGHBORHOOD THREE--

DrippingGoofBall:

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
N1, targeted

Shirou

; N2, targeted

DeasVail

; N3, targeted

Shirou

.

ItalianoVD:

Neighbor (C)

mastina:

Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)
N1, targeted

Malakittens

(Malakittens is Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor, Malakittens confirmed); N2, targeted

DKKoba

(DKKoba is Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor); N3, targeted

Freedom

(Freedom is Neighbor, Freedom did not confirm).

Ydrasse:

Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
N1, targeted

mastina

(mastina acted), N2,

died

.

OUTSIDE NEIGHBORHOODS--

Aisa:

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child (technical role vs actual role)

MODIFIERS LIST OF DEFINITIONS--

MULTITASKING:

Allows for the use of more than one action per night, commonly the mafia nightkill in addition to their night action.

ROAMING:

Can never target the same player twice, a more harsh version of Indecisive.

LOUD:

Target knows the player with the specified loud action visited them, but not what the action was.

COMPULSIVE:

Required to perform the action specified as compulsive.

ODD-NIGHT:

Can only act on odd-numbered nights; N1, N3, N5, etc. A less flexible version of nonconsecutive.

EVEN-NIGHT:

Can only act on even-numbered nights; N2, N4, N6, etc. A less flexible version of nonconsecutive.

ANNOUNCING:

Target knows they were targeted by the action specified as being announcing.

LAZY:

Role stops working when there's only one scum remaining.

PERSONAL:

Role cannot detect the mafia factional kill, and only works on power roles.

INDECISIVE:

Role cannot target the same player twice in a row, a lesser version of other more extreme modifiers such as roaming and nonconsecutive.

ROLE LIST OF DEFINITIONS--

Roleblocker: Prevents a player from acting, causing their action to fail.
ROLE WATCHER: Sees the full roles (sans alignment) of everyone visiting the target, akin to a mass-rolecop on the target. This is a significantly stronger variant than a Voyeur, and is far more akin to a Watcher in strength. However, it is still weaker than a Watcher because it doesn't get the list of the players, just like a voyeur doesn't.
Fruit Vendor: Sends a piece of fruit to the target, the target is told they received fruit.
Doctor: Protects a player from kills.
Jailkeeper: Prevents a player from acting, causing their action to fail; protects that same player from kills.
Rolecop: Sees the full role of the player they target, but not alignment.
REPORTER: Sees if a player visited during the night, but not what action they performed (Follower), nor who they targeted (Tracker). Is a weaker version of Follower/Tracker.

So this should be a master list everyone can use to get on the same page, right?
This is all correct to my knowledge, please correct anything I missed, but I do have some thoughts on this all in one place.

[mastina]

Spoiler: Neighborhood Breakdown

NEIGHBORHOOD ONE--

Freedom:

Neighbor (A)

DeasVail:

Neighbor (A)

DKKoba:

Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)

xofelf:

Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)
N1, targeted

Ausuka

(no visit, Ausuka hasn't confirmed); N2, targeted

Ydrasse

(targeted by a Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor, nobody else); N3, targeted

mastina

(no visit, mastina confirmed).

NEIGHBORHOOD TWO--

Ausuka:

Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
N2, targeted

Shirou

.

Kowahbunga:

Neighbor (B)

Malakittens:

Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
N1, targeted

???(in neighborhood)

, action failed; N3, targeted

???

, action...where the hell is it? The roleblocker was dead and DGB didn't block Malakittens so where did Mala's fruit go?

Shirou:

Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
N1, targeted

Ydrasse

(unconfirmed); N2, targeted

Malakittens

(unconfirmed); N3, targeted

mastina

(claimed action confirmed to have not succeeded).

NEIGHBORHOOD THREE--

DrippingGoofBall:

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
N1, targeted

Shirou

; N2, targeted

DeasVail

; N3, targeted

Shirou

.

ItalianoVD:

Neighbor (C)

mastina:

Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)
N1, targeted

Malakittens

(Malakittens is Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor, Malakittens confirmed); N2, targeted

DKKoba

(DKKoba is Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor); N3, targeted

Freedom

(Freedom is Neighbor, Freedom did not confirm).

Ydrasse:

Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
N1, targeted

mastina

(mastina acted), N2,

died

.

OUTSIDE NEIGHBORHOODS--

Aisa:

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child (technical role vs actual role)

Spoiler: Modifiers List

MODIFIERS LIST OF DEFINITIONS--

MULTITASKING:

Allows for the use of more than one action per night, commonly the mafia nightkill in addition to their night action.

ROAMING:

Can never target the same player twice, a more harsh version of Indecisive.

LOUD:

Target knows the player with the specified loud action visited them, but not what the action was.

COMPULSIVE:

Required to perform the action specified as compulsive.

ODD-NIGHT:

Can only act on odd-numbered nights; N1, N3, N5, etc. A less flexible version of nonconsecutive.

EVEN-NIGHT:

Can only act on even-numbered nights; N2, N4, N6, etc. A less flexible version of nonconsecutive.

ANNOUNCING:

Target knows they were targeted by the action specified as being announcing.

LAZY:

Role stops working when there's only one scum remaining.

PERSONAL:

Role cannot detect the mafia factional kill, and only works on power roles.

INDECISIVE:

Role cannot target the same player twice in a row, a lesser version of other more extreme modifiers such as roaming and nonconsecutive.

Spoiler: Role List

ROLE LIST OF DEFINITIONS--

Roleblocker: Prevents a player from acting, causing their action to fail.
ROLE WATCHER: Sees the full roles (sans alignment) of everyone visiting the target, akin to a mass-rolecop on the target. This is a significantly stronger variant than a Voyeur, and is far more akin to a Watcher in strength. However, it is still weaker than a Watcher because it doesn't get the list of the players, just like a voyeur doesn't.
Fruit Vendor: Sends a piece of fruit to the target, the target is told they received fruit.
Doctor: Protects a player from kills.
Jailkeeper: Prevents a player from acting, causing their action to fail; protects that same player from kills.
Rolecop: Sees the full role of the player they target, but not alignment.
REPORTER: Sees if a player visited during the night, but not what action they performed (Follower), nor who they targeted (Tracker). Is a weaker version of Follower/Tracker.

So let's break that down into every possible setup combo, with what we know.

Freedom + DeasVail Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (A)
??? (claimed Neighbor) (A)

Freedom + xofelf Scumteam:

TOWN:
Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A) (confirmed to be Loud, although

if

xofelf is scum I believe the claim since it is a powerful scum role if utilized properly)
Neighbor (A)

Freedom + Ausuka Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B) (confirmed to be FV, although modifiers are unconfirmed)
Neighbor (A)

Freedom + Shirou Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B) (is unconfirmed--likely is an Announcing Doctor of some kind, but the modifiers aren't confirmed)
Neighbor (A)

Freedom + DrippingGoofBall Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C) (role is unconfirmed, but per Shirou being town here,

some

roleblocking role would be confirmed to exist)
Neighbor (A)

Freedom + mastina Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)
Neighbor (A)

DeasVail + xofelf Scumteam:

TOWN:
Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A) (confirmed to be Loud, although

if

xofelf is scum I believe the claim since it is a powerful scum role if utilized properly)
??? (claimed Neighbor) (A)

DeasVail + Ausuka Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B) (confirmed to be FV, although modifiers are unconfirmed)
??? (claimed Neighbor) (A)

DeasVail + Shirou Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B) (is unconfirmed--likely is an Announcing Doctor of some kind, but the modifiers aren't confirmed)
??? (claimed Neighbor) (A)

DeasVail + DrippingGoofBall Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C) (role is unconfirmed, but per Shirou being town here,

some

roleblocking role would be confirmed to exist)
??? (claimed Neighbor) (A)

DeasVail + mastina Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)
??? (claimed Neighbor) (A)

xofelf + Ausuka Scumteam:

TOWN:
Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A) (confirmed to be Loud, although

if

xofelf is scum I believe the claim since it is a powerful scum role if utilized properly)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B) (confirmed to be FV, although modifiers are unconfirmed)

xofelf + Shirou Scumteam:

TOWN:
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A) (confirmed to be Loud, although

if

xofelf is scum I believe the claim since it is a powerful scum role if utilized properly)
Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B) (is unconfirmed--likely is an Announcing Doctor of some kind, but the modifiers aren't confirmed)

xofelf + DrippingGoofBall Scumteam:

TOWN:
Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A) (confirmed to be Loud, although

if

xofelf is scum I believe the claim since it is a powerful scum role if utilized properly)
Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C) (role is unconfirmed, but per Shirou being town here,

some

roleblocking role would be confirmed to exist)

xofelf + mastina Scumteam:

TOWN:
Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A) (confirmed to be Loud, although

if

xofelf is scum I believe the claim since it is a powerful scum role if utilized properly)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Ausuka + Shirou Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B) (is unconfirmed with Shirou as scum)
Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B) (is unconfirmed--likely is an Announcing Doctor of some kind, but the modifiers aren't confirmed)

Ausuka + DrippingGoofBall Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B) (confirmed to be FV, although modifiers are unconfirmed)
Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C) (role is unconfirmed, but per Shirou being town here,

some

roleblocking role would be confirmed to exist)

Ausuka + mastina Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B) (confirmed to be FV, although modifiers are unconfirmed)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Shirou + DrippingGoofBall Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B) (is unconfirmed--likely is an Announcing Doctor of some kind, but the modifiers aren't confirmed)
Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C) (role is completely unconfirmed here, with Shirou scum)

Shirou + mastina Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B) (is unconfirmed--likely is an Announcing Doctor of some kind, but the modifiers aren't confirmed)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)

DrippingGoofBall + mastina Scumteam:

TOWN:
Loud Roaming Role Watcher Neighbor (A)

Announcing Roaming Doctor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)
Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor Neighbor (B)

Personal Indecisive Reporter Neighbor (C)

Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (A)
Neighbor (B)
Neighbor (C)

"Vanilla Townie" / Innocent Child

SCUM:
Multitasking Roaming Roleblocker Neighbor (A)
Lazy Jailkeeper Neighbor (C)
Loud Rolecop Neighbor (C)


Pretty sure that's every scumteam combo.

[mastina]

(As a heads up, I might not be able to do much more today. Despite my injury, I do work tomorrow, so need an early bedtime. And my neck actually

is

feeling at least a little injured. Staring at a computer monitor for 8 hours normally is fine for me, but right now it has fatigued my neck pretty badly. Doing what I can tho.)

[mastina]

The reason we suspected Mastina potentially bussing koba from D3 was the fact Koba knew they were multitasking and the outed rolecop could get a guilty on them, but they DIDN'T roleblock Mastina.

I believe the answer to this is simply Koba was the only role which was a guilty, and Koba was planning on going down D3.

If you believe Koba knew they were going to be the D3 elimination after quickhammering (I think everyone believes this, is there anyone who doesn't?), then Koba wouldn't fear my guilty, because Koba knew they were going to go down D3 regardless of whether I got a guilty or not.

If Koba was the only role on the scumteam that could generate a guilty,
And Koba knew they were going to go down D3 after their D2 quickhammer,
Why would the scum stop the investigation?

They would have reason to believe their one and only player who could get guiltied,
Was going to go down regardless of guilty.

So, blocking me would be a waste.

[mastina]

I think scum are probably being mostly honest about their roles

I also believe this.

That I haven't been blocked or killed supports it.
That xofelf hasn't been blocked or killed supports it--remember, xofelf also claimed on D3.

Scum didn't interefere with xofelf at all last night and scum didn't kill xofelf at all last night.

So both roles which can investigate for other roles have been left the entire game to act the entire game unimpeded--
Regardless of the scumteam, that should tell you that the scumteam isn't afraid of them.

Ergo, scumteam is very

likely

being at least mostly honest about their roles. And don't have a hard guilty.

[mastina]

I wanna give mechs some thought but I also am thinking it might just be best to go by reads tbh.

Btw for the record--I stick by this.

I believe the roles with them all out there, and the neighborhoods all out there, is going to be a minor help, but the roles aren't going to solve the game for us.

I believe that play, as reflected through the neighborhoods and roles, but mostly by play, will say who is scum far more reliably.
Team interactions, etc.

[mastina]

Fuck I got the neighborhoods wrong again didn't I in 1887.

Bloody hell.

I literally can't wrap my head around the neighborhood combos.

[mastina]

My main post really is HOW one can be a Mafia Multitasking Roleblocker, be scum read since the start of the game by an outed Rolecop, and NOT roleblock them in any of the nights.

I mean that has a simple answer--when lacking information, a scum rolecop wants to block power roles, particularly investigatives. Investigatives > Protectives > other roles > VTs.

On D1 my claim of being a mason, later outted as being a neighbor with Italiano, DGB, and Ydrasse didn't give off investigative vibes. I was also behind the whole time--I

still

have my page twenty tab open, because I ended D1 on page twenty. I was reading page

twenty

of

fourty-eight

at that time.

mastina: pleads the 5th, does not wish to read her or has the brain power to read her. To that I say, same

This implies they wrote me off as not a threat to them, too.

However, that's when they lack information.

Situationally, scum can adjust their call.

IF DGB is scum for instance, blocking me would be seen as a scumclaim from DGB.

If scum were aware of Malakittens's role, they could've feared Mala was a loyal fruit vendor and chose to block her.
If scum were aware of Malakittens's role, they could've blocked her just to set up a D2 mislim on her.

If scum weren't aware of Malakittens's role, they could've thought Malakittens was an investigative.

All of those are potential answers, depending on scumteam composition.

[mastina]

Also if I was ever lying about being an announcing doctor and therefore scum, does anyone think I do EVER kill anyone other than ROLECOP

For the record, this is actually a fair point from Shirou, and I'm inclined to believe it's most likely Shirou is telling the truth about role regardless of alignment.

When you roll a town PR and know nothing of the setup, and is in a 4p hood which statistically would contain scum especially if you didn't know everyone else would be in a hood as well, do you assume to be a good idea to fullclaim on it in D1/N1?

That's the thing--I didn't.

I claimed I was an investigative D1.

It was, explicitly, a gambit.

I have a long track record of claiming my role in my neighborhood way way WAY before I claimed it inthread.

Tatsuya Kaname's Anime uPick had that, SMITE had that, Steven Universe Mafia 2 had that, I think Steven Universe Mafia had it too, I'm pretty sure there was an Antihero Chemistry game where I did it as well.

Every single time, it was a gambit.
Every single time, I knew it was a risk.
Every single time, I still did it--as town.

The risk is fairly low. Scum going deepscum to hard-fool me is the biggest risk.
The reward is fairly high. Scum exposing themselves in the neighborhood, or an all-town neighborhood becoming a mason, are both equally useful outcomes.

So yeah, I claimed investigative D1. I didn't claim what type until D2.

[mastina]

A outed "Town Rolecop" since D1/N1 that was always suspecting the roleblocker she could guilty, but she's still alive and never roleblocked.

I didn't investigate Koba N1 because I was intending to vote Koba D2 unless Malakittens was a guilty. Koba had people suspecting them--Malakittens didn't. Which is the more valuable guilty? The guilty on a player people were scumreading anyway, or the guilty on a player people townreading? For me, a guilty on a player I am scumreading but most are townreading is much higher value.

I investigated Koba N2 because I wasn't going to let Koba get away with openscumming. The logic "investigate the scum who the town are townreading, and eliminate the scum who the town are already scumreading" doesn't work if people don't actually eliminate the scum who the town was scumreading. In hindsight it wasn't an optimal investigation, it was more of a frustration investigation, but it was still a guilty we wouldn't have had otherwise.

[mastina]

...So if Shirou knew that the VT was an IC as a doctor...
...why didn't Shirou try to protect the VT N1?????

Because I didn't know who the VT was between [Xof, DeasVail, Aisa] due to missing Ausuka spoilered post, I argued as much in D2

By the way--this argument still doesn't hold up.

As a town protective role, your job is to find who the scum will be killing.

Not who the scum would

like

to kill.
Not who the scum

might

kill.

As a town protective role, your job is to find who the scum WILL BE killing.

The scum's priority N1 was finding and killing the VT--as shown by the fact they found and killed the VT.

As a protective role who

knew

that the VT was in [xofelf, DeasVail, Aisa]...
...And who (correctly) guessed scum would aim to

kill

the VT...

...Then

even without knowing who the VT is

, Shirou should have been protecting in that pool.

Protecting Ydrasse when Ydrasse was definitely not the VT and scum were aiming for a VT is a doctor protection that had a 0% chance of being correct.
Protecting within [xofelf, DeasVail, Aisa] would have been a protection with a

minimum

of a 33% chance of being correct.

Basically, if Shirou were actively looking to stop the scum nightkill, then off of the assumption scum would be killing the VT, Shirou should have tried to protect the VT.

Which means Shirou's protection of Ydrasse couldn't have protected a kill--but it could be excused as looking like it was

designed

to protect a kill, as a protection that looks town enough to make while "conveniently" failing to stop the actual nightkill.

[mastina]

...So if Shirou knew that the VT was an IC as a doctor...
...why didn't Shirou try to protect the VT N1?????

Because I didn't know who the VT was between [Xof, DeasVail, Aisa] due to missing Ausuka spoilered post, I argued as much in D2

By the way--this argument still doesn't hold up.

As a town protective role, your job is to find who the scum will be killing.

Not who the scum would

like

to kill.
Not who the scum

might

kill.

As a town protective role, your job is to find who the scum WILL BE killing.

The scum's priority N1 was finding and killing the VT--as shown by the fact they found and killed the VT.

As a protective role who

knew

that the VT was in [xofelf, DeasVail, Aisa]...
...And who (correctly) guessed scum would aim to

kill

the VT...

...Then

even without knowing who the VT is

, Shirou should have been protecting in that pool.

Protecting Ydrasse when Ydrasse was definitely not the VT and scum were aiming for a VT is a doctor protection that had a 0% chance of being correct.
Protecting within [xofelf, DeasVail, Aisa] would have been a protection with a

minimum

of a 33% chance of being correct.

Basically, if Shirou were actively looking to stop the scum nightkill, then off of the assumption scum would be killing the VT, Shirou should have tried to protect the VT.

Which means Shirou's protection of Ydrasse couldn't have protected a kill--but it could be excused as looking like it was

designed

to protect a kill, as a protection that looks town enough to make while "conveniently" failing to stop the actual nightkill.

And this is

especially

true with Shirou's Roaming modifier.

Scum would like to kill a PR Ydrasse to be sure...but not on N1. Isn't it convenient that Shirou could never protect Ydrasse after N1 then?
Scum would like to kill the VT on N1. And Shirou deliberately chose to protect elsewhere rather than save the VT until D2 where it would be revealed.

If Shirou is town, that was a botched play of botched plays. If Shirou is town, Shirou royally fucked up. If Shirou is town, Shirou literally did the exact right combination of action to look like scum.

If Shirou is scum, then Shirou just did the actions which looked town plausibly but actively advanced the scum wincon.

[mastina]

I'd like to start this post by thanking Shirou for the reminder of why I literally quit mafia for months.
Last night I got less than 4 hours of sleep because I spent the time trying to form an initial solve, or at least the beginning of one.

Koba also did this "

Oh no Shirou is being so defensive and toxic, woe is me

" when I hardpushed them D1 for shading me. I

want

to believe this comes from town just like I wanted to believe Koba was town, but that's not how things turned out.

The difference is, Koba was obviously bullshitting.

I literally called Koba doing this as being exactly that.

I was the one to call it bullshit.

Whereas I have the actual game history and track record to show exactly why I was frustrated.

Trying to say this is a "strategic ploy" to affect you is...???

I believe it was strategic because it was strategic.

Now, town can be strategic. Presumably, when you do it in towngames it provides you with an advantage. So saying it was strategic is true regardless of your alignment.

Now, I lean towards you being scum for multiple reasons, so I believe it was strategic for your scum alignment, but my point holds regardless.