TM 2023 | Mini Normal | Endgame

[Shirou]

Mafia Rolecop + Mafia Roleblocker + Mafia Goon

Can you think of any more "Normal" scum team than that?

If there wasn't a guilty on Koba, I would even perhaps think it was mod WIFOM because roleblocker is SUCH a scum role in most games.

It wasn't WIFOM. The roleblocker was just scum.

Now does anyone sane think it's more likely for the scum team rather be something like:

Mafia Roleblocker + Mafia Doctor + Mafia Goon

vs

All those investigatives + Jailkeeper

[Shirou]

I thought me slowing down would do good for the game.

I thought that there would be reasonable discussion even if the game didn't go for a direction I wanted.

What I got instead is Mastina throwing wild mental gymnastics in the wall and people apparently buying that it's something likely.

[PenguinPower]

Votecount 4.09

DeasVail (1):

Shirou

Freedom (1):

DrippingGoofball

Not Voting (5): Freedom, Ausuka, DeasVail, xofelf, mastina

With 7 alive it takes 4 to eliminate.

Day 4 deadline is in (expired on 2023-05-18 09:20:33)

Mod Notes

Have fun!

[Shirou]

I'm so tired of this game already.

Before scumming it up and taking the harder route, I thought about just letting myself by NK'd and washing my hands clean of this.

I've never used this phrase before as town to my knowledge, I was always scum, and maybe it's because I'm tired IRL as well but I feel like "having words" in post-game depending on how this day resolves.

I literally CANNOT accept that the not roleblocked, classic scum role ROLECOP is apparently managing to convince this game that it's very plausible that a goddamn useless scum mafia announcing doctor exists and all the other investigatives are town.

This is SUCH a silly take, that I can't take it seriously, I thought I would be close to conftown from role alone and even outside of that Mastina would be the most suspicious claim.

This game is hallucinating.

[Shirou]

If Xof or Freedom are scum I don't care anymore.

Why the hell do you think I gave time/space to Mastina if not to allow her to properly catch up and if ever town to show any sign at all of cooperation/good-faith

Then DGB is there saying that actually this is amazing scum play by Mastina if she's scum and IT'S NOT

VOTE: Mastina

[Shirou]

I've decided to throw this game if Xof or Freedom are scum. I cannot mentally keep witnessing this shit anymore I just want it to end.

Now, this is an official declaration of War. I shall have no mercy and I don't expect any towards me either anymore.

[Shirou]

I hadn't even realized it yet but there's only two days and half until

deadline

.

Can people start putting their money where their mouth is please? Mastina/DeasVail are obviously gonna vote me together but what about you Xof?

I think Ausuka/Freedom seem more likely to vote Mastina than me today, while DGB/Mastina/DeasVail are going to vote me.

Then basically, unless I'm wrong somewhere, the person to decide the day is gonna be you Xof.

So, what is it gonna be? and

why

?

I really hope it's just killing the scum rolecop but your last read-list didn't inspire me much confidence that this is the result we're necessarily gonna receive.

[Shirou]

This is potentially the second time EVER I'll be eliminated as town, and honestly it speaks volume to the amount of bullshit being peddled on this game as if it's a likely explanation of the game events.

Please choose then folks:

A) Kill the Announcing Doctor, a complete mod-troll role if scum, roleblocked on N2 by scum before being an outed PR, that if scum wasted their N1 roleblock on a fruit vendor for "town credit", that felt offended by the disrespect and got into a personal beefy with scum!Koba, and actually showed some signs of doubt on Mastina's alignment.

B) Kill the Rolecop, a classical scum PR along with Roleblocker, not roleblocked in the game even though she could easily get a guilty in her "top suspect", started from the very first post in the game to call Koba scum but never seriously tried to get them eliminated, and from the moment I expressed a scum read on her, she completely flipped her previous town read on me and has laser-focused on shading me today without considering other slots alignments.

Choose wisely people, and if you choose me today, I want you to take a LONG, HARD stare at that Town Doctor flip and realize that what happened today was pure, raw, unadulterated

HALLUCINATION

and you

KNOW

what to do tomorrow if that ever happens.

[Shirou]

If Xof is ever scum I think they have just effectively won the game as well, unhappily.

[DrippingGoofball]

Maybe Shirou and mastina are both town?

[DrippingGoofball]

Never mind all the setup blah blah blah and the who said what to who... that AtE bleeds town.

[Ausuka]

his push on shirou for not wanting to get roleblocked gave me bad vibes

I'd be interested to know what you mean by this. Was it the push in general? Or that bit? Because I think that bit was mostly about the general OTT-ness

The push in general has some bad vibes, and I think in this gamestate scum is pretty likely to be pushing shirou, but the bit about getting frustrated didn't feel like that OTT to me and felt like a pretty normal response to getting roleblocked all three nights in a row

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm never voting Shirou here.

[Ausuka]

I am never voting shirou here

VOTE: Deasvail

I was fine keeping my vote open ended because I wanted to pressure freedom into doing things but shirou is freaking out that we have three days left and mechanically limming Mastina over DV without a reaaaaaaaally good reason feels ??? Because if DV or freedom is scum they can do the kill and the watcher isn't that useful because even if xoffy watched the nightkill, we don't know if Xofelf or freedom or deasvail is scum there. I hope that makes sense

I think the two most likely scumteams are DV with Mastina or DV with DGB, although I still feel extremely reluctant to like let freedom live to endgame so hopefully it doesn't come to that or he like gives us reads. I guess it could be like the meme dream of freedom/dgb still

[DrippingGoofball]

Looking at the neighorhood (mastina, Italiano, Ydrasse and myself), mastina kickstarted the discussion by declaring it a "masonry" and calling us all town. It was probably tongue-in-cheek.

On Sunday, April 16, mastina declares that she believes that the neighborhood is a masonry of sorts because her role, in her opinion, exists to check her neighbor's alignments. That's a pretty early declaration of having a power role among players that may or may not be town (from a townie perspective at least). Italiano volunteers to be checked, but mastina says that she'll check Ydrasse first, then me, then any other player in her priority list. Ydrasse then also volunteers to be rolechecked.

Now get this... of everyone in the neighborhood I'm the only one who does not volunteer to be checked, and mastina doesn't notice.

April 25, mastina announces that she'll be checking Malakittens, from her pool of suspects that she lists as Freedom, Mala and lastly, Koba.

The next night, mastina decides to investigate Koba because that hammer was super scummy.

On night 3 she announces that she will investigate Freedom, and then announces the result that Freedom is a neighbor, so no alignment.

[Ausuka]

Also shirou I understand if you're mad that I didn't do anything for a week but I kind of was going through the wringer a bit I wasn't being lazy on purpose I promise!

I'm not sure I really see the argument that Mastina is to be scum cos Rolecop is a classically scum role tbh.i don't think this game is built to be traditional at all, I think rolecop can easily be a town role here. Honestly part of me just does want to take the easy option and agree with everyone that it's just Mastina here and like there's a good chance it is in fact Mastina, but also a lot of the push on her seems centered around the idea she's playing badly, or frustrated with her play - I see this with my team as well, and I'm not totally convinced this is a result of her not believing what she's saying? I think the most convincing argument to me is still that she didn't get roleblocked or killed at all as a claimed investigative who guiltied scum, which yes that is in fact suspicious. But also like, I do think there is a pretty good possibility that Koba genuinely did not think they were going to get investigated like they said on d3, they probably weren't planning to live to endgame anyways, and like actually being the one who claims the guilty on scum and gets them killed has to like earn her some town points from me in any case. Typically at this point in the game I would probably just be flat out assuming the guilty claim was town and re evaluate if they survive to elo.

Again I acknowledge that Mastina can be scum and I'm not saying she's definitely town but I still have my doubts and I think dv is a better flip if you're still okay with that. And if there are any specific points you want to talk about I'm happy to do that as long as you don't yell at me or anything

[DrippingGoofball]

Please weigh in on my post 1939. I'm not sure what to make of mastina's unshakeable confidence that the neighborhood is pretty much all town from the get-go.

I never JK'd mastina so by now, if she's town, she should be pretty convinced that I am town as well.

[Ausuka]

The mason thing is something I can believe town Mastina would do

I think it's suspicious that she felt that way but apparently stopped caring about it half way through day 1, but I'm sure she'll be in the thread to talk about it soon enough

[Shirou]

Oh also for last, if anyone believes I'm scum with DV or Freedom, you need to believe this is a

remotely

balanced setup:

Town Personal Indecisive Reporter
Town Compulsive Odd-Night Fruit Vendor
Town Compulsive Even-Night Fruit Vendor
Town Loud Roaming Role Watcher
Town Loud Rolecop
Town Lazy Jailkeeper

Town "Innocent Child" (Vanilla Townie)
Town Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Town Neighbor

vs

Mafia Roaming Roleblock (can't roleblock a given town PR more than once)
Mafia Announcing Doctor (useless troll role for scum)
Mafia Goon

-> Basically, the "Town Neighbor" are the real VTs of this game just as the VT was our effective Innocent Child (which btw also existed in the setup that likely inspired PP for this setup). There's only three real "Vanilla Townies" in this game, every other townie is a PR and to believe that the unique role scum has to balance that is a nerfed Roleblocker is so...sigh. Maybe I'm just feeling

entitled

for people to believe me in this game at this point but I can't help but feel this is one of the most wild setup specs I've ever seen. Like, that's not even close to being balanced for scum.

Also theoretically DeasVail could have lied about their role and be something like strongman or so, which would make this a bit more balanced even with the troll doctor role, but still, I think that's a wifom theory even if I'm the one that proposed it first?

[DrippingGoofball]

Shirou we know you're town.

what non-mastina player is scum is the question.

[Shirou]

Maybe Shirou and mastina are both town?

By this point I doubt it but it's theoretically possible. A lot of the roles in this setup has a counterpart of sorts in the setup I played with PP last time, like Innocent Child => VT, Voyeur => Report and Watcher => Role Watcher. It's just wild guessing on mod WIFOM but the watcher role last time was scum for example, and it's a bit eerie that one of my suspects Xof has that counterpart role, but the way Mastina has treated me since I expressed a scumread on her makes me confident it's just her.

Also all the

"setup blah blah blah"

but I think I've said enough about that...

[Shirou]

what non-mastina player is scum is the question.

Well if you believe I'm town, I think it's a question of how much we bet that Freedom isn't scum.

Alternatively Ausuka but I feel like there's a ~way~ of confirming Ausuka perhaps due to Koba multitasking + Role Watcher or Rolecop + Compulsive modifier. Not to mention I think Ausuka is mostly cleared for the Koba interactions alone yeah.

[Shirou]

If Freedom isn't scum, and you can believe I'm town, we can kill up to three people and our PoE is supposedly [Mastina, DeasVail, Xof]. That would be a wrap for this game.

One of the things I've been pondering all this game is how much I trust Freedom for the fruit vendor thing. It feels like a significant reason to trust him a bit to me but at the same time I do feel like out of the remaining players alive, he's the most likely to just not mention to his scummates that Mala was a Fruit Vendor?

Arko also said something I liked in the very start of the game, kind of like "there's probably scum in this hood but do I care for now? nah".

However yeah, Freedom is the slot I've the least reasons to clear here, and I think if I'm not one of the mislims, scum!Freedom can be how we lose this game.

[Shirou]

*However*

Freedom has already been checked by Mastina supposedly. And I cannot believe that there isn't one more PR in the scum team especially if all of Mastina/Me/Xof are town.

Therefore, in a Freedom/DV world, DV has gotta to be a PR like strongman here.

I think therefore that there can only be one scum in [Freedom/DeasVail] as long as DeasVail isn't a scum PR

I think it's not theoretically impossible for it to be [Freedom/DeasVail] if DeasVail is a scum PR and lied about his role.

A DeasVail lim would also help sort Freedom I think.

[DrippingGoofball]

Finally a team member in my discord answered me about why they think the solve might be xof and Freedom. Fate said that it sounded like xof was begging Freedom to give them a reason to townread them.

So...

Both Staeg and Fate are aboard a xof/Freedom train.

They haven't looked at role balance FYI.