Micro 1079 - dividing connor (game over)

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, thank you.

That’s all that was necessaary. I will go answer them now and clarify what you need

[Flavor Leaf]

Merlyn vote on Yessiree is a momentum shifting vote. Wanting to note it because it clashes with where I was here, but it was their entrance really, so not overly scummy, but worth noting.

Momentum shifting? I have a hard time feeling like anything that early can really have momentum.

Both Invisibility and Python are subtly controlling this game. On the surface, it looks like Invisibility, but I can see it being Python just letting it flow, but their change onto Yess was an action that I didn't like at all. If the sole purpose for not scum reading Yess was because they put them into the neighborhood, yet they acted like the neighborhood was 'random choosing', that's just a poor reason because it's not 'random' It's the order of the sign-ups, which has a reason. And even if so, scum actively had to choose to do so still, and didn't have to commit to it.

Ah yes, this is where my brain broke earlier. The idea of Python "subtly" controlling the game. I don't think Python really does

subtle

.

Python's Zero% Lim is rough because they brought it up themselves, like that's a built in defense for why they wouldnt put themselves in small hood, which is why theyd put themselves in small hood. But it's not the best defense either way, and don't think it helps, just kind of rough they said it. Like a little extra sprinkle for presentation. Do they even care about it in the long run or is it just something they think is currently cool? Idk.

Thinking something is currently cool is definitely something people can do. I recently considered replacing into a game in elo and read a little bit of it, came up with two theories on who the scum team was, and eventually didn't pull the trigger on joining the game partly because I was worried it was a doomed scum slot and I didn't want to mess up my incredible Mafia win rate on a game I barely even was in.

Absolutely think the STD hops are gross. People targeted him because he thought we should target in big hood, which is like, eh, don't necessarily agree, but I think it's fair for people to be sick of small hood stuff and find a reason to move away from it.

What is this garbage take, lol. I think it's incredibly obvious that Dragons got some pushback because he said "let's pay attention to big hood, uh no I don't have any attention of my own to give big hood but I'll tell other people to do it" which is pretty silly.

GOing after STD the way people did for that is just reinforcing any thought outside of small hood is negative.

Nope, still makes negative sense. I had already pivoted to big hood with a Cakez vote even before poking at Dragons. Why are you trying to paint the exact opposite picture of what actually was happening?

it's so weak cuz the read is based off the idea that Cakez would be difficult to fake a mindmeld with AD, which is true, but since AD didn't share these ideas beforehand that the only way Cakez would be able to fake this would be if he could read minds. Maybe terrible is too strong a word, but it's very very weird to me that he would even mention the unlikelihood of Cakez faking mindmeldable stuff as a townread reason cuz it's so beyond the realm of possibility that it's not even worth mentioning. Is the read otherwise much different than a regular mindmeld read? Not really! But the weird logic used makes me suspicious.

I like this reasoning for why you don't like the read.

Negative sense continues to be made by Flavor Leaf. Are you partners with Invis?

ActionDan is a hard one to truly town read here, but I get why he was town reading Cakez.

The mind boggles. Dan's on the top of my big hood pile.

But Aureal was skirting around. I need to look back at them more.

@Python - you talked about Aureal a little bit before, do you scum read them?

What the hell game are you reading? "Skirting around"? What does that even mean? It sounds like you're trying to say I'm not doing anything, but I think I've been one of if not the most active big hood player. Even having dropped off somewhat for a few days because I've been hella busy and couldn't focus on this.

On the momentum shifting side of things, it 100% had a momentum shift in the game when Merlyn came in. This is essentially a fact. Yessiree had 3 votes on them, and was E-2.

Merlyn was a different player adding themselves to this mix, and it was an active key point to describe where the gamestate was. Had Merlyn came in and thought Invisibility was scummy instead, the entire game was possible to go in a different direction. This was a HUGE momentum shift in the game, but it's not entirely noticeable unless you're like looking into that stuff. This is one of the ways I play the game. I'm huge on gamestate, and I like to read different gamestates and how people react to things.

For instance, right now we are in a place where Python and I both have 2 votes, and I can see it going 1 of 4 ways depending on where certain people vote.

Some people could join in on Python. Some people can join in Aureal. Some people can join on Me. Or a new wagon altogether forms. This depends on a few things such as who the scum team is and where they would rather have the focus be. If scum is not Python/Aureal, they pretty much can choose the way they want to play it, like if they wanted to go for me, scum easily can take me out here if I am wrong with both Python and Aureal.

If scum want to take PythonTown here out, they can do that as well, which would then frame me later. Things like that, so yes, Merlyn vote was a direct intro to where Merlyn was leaning based on the happenings that came before that, so yes, that was one of the first strong momentum shifting votes, or at least momentum 'guiding' if momentum was already going that way, it helped it stay the course.

_

In regards to the subtle, I was more referring to the subtle push towards a scum agenda. If Python is scum, they still try to hide the fact they're scum, so yes, it is subtle because they dont want that trail to be found.

__

I think you calling my take a 'Garbage take' is just poor and rude. My read on STD is just as valid as anyone else's. Me saying that me saying I thought the STD hops was gross was me inferring I think it was scum ridden, not that they were bad or unwarranted in a 'garbage take' kind of way.

Everyone's reads are valid, and it's really annoying when people call them trash read or garbage take, because like, let's just be nice. We can call things scummy and whatnot, but yeah.

I try to stay away from comments like that, and I'm not perfect with any means, but that felt rude.

In fact, I think your entire comments on my thoughts with STD had one agenda: to discredit me. You didn't even care to look at our think why I was saying that.

__

You talk about negative sense regarding my take to Invisibility, okay then.

What don't you like about Invisibility's post there? Please enlighten.

___

On your regards to 'the mind boggling', in regards to my ActionDan understanding why he town reads SirCakez, this just feels like your the type who is pushing your reads as 100% the best reads no matter what and anyone who disagrees with you has a 'garbage take' as you put it.

What is your read on SirCakez? What is mind boggling about the SirCakez town read reasoning of thinking all 3 are scummy and wanting to go big hood?

I think that's entirely valid. If you think otherwise, that's fine, but I want to know why you think that.


___


The skirting around is really just me saying you were there while Invisiblity/Python were talking, and even Python commented on how you were only talking about Python/Invisibility.

Like this isn't opinion, this is fact. You were there. I gave my reasoning before with the theory of you being there supporting a possible scum partner in one of them.


__



So this is me responding to all of your stuff. You called most of my stuff garbage without even caring to understand deeper, you jumped and leapt immediately to garbage, and that wasn't very nice of you. My reads are just as valid as everyone else's in this game, and I feel like even if I am wrong, all of the things I've mentioned you can at least see why I have those reads.

So please answer the boldened.

[Flavor Leaf]

On top of that, I've been at work all day, so I wasn't reading like super in depth throughout the day, more just quick response. I got home, and did that on my computer.

[Aureal]

On the momentum shifting side of things, it 100% had a momentum shift in the game when Merlyn came in. This is essentially a fact. Yessiree had 3 votes on them, and was E-2.

I assume you meant to say Invisibility there. In which case, why Merlyn specifically as opposed to all the rest of us who came in while Invis was E-2?

I think you calling my take a 'Garbage take' is just poor and rude. My read on STD is just as valid as anyone else's. Me saying that me saying I thought the STD hops was gross was me inferring I think it was scum ridden, not that they were bad or unwarranted in a 'garbage take' kind of way.

Everyone's reads are valid, and it's really annoying when people call them trash read or garbage take, because like, let's just be nice. We can call things scummy and whatnot, but yeah.

Okay, fine, your take on why people were going after STD is so inaccurate it's hard to believe it's not intentionally so. It's like, literally the OPPOSITE of what's actually happening.

In fact, I think your entire comments on my thoughts with STD had one agenda: to discredit me. You didn't even care to look at our think why I was saying that.

No, that seems to be what

you're

doing.

You talk about negative sense regarding my take to Invisibility, okay then.

What don't you like about Invisibility's post there? Please enlighten.

I think after Invis's last clarification I'm understanding better what she was trying to say about the Dan read. Can't say I agree with it, but... I suppose it's something someone could possibly use in trying to make a read. Seems like a pretty flimsy basis so I'm not sure how it spawned so much talk.

On your regards to 'the mind boggling', in regards to my ActionDan understanding why he town reads SirCakez, this just feels like your the type who is pushing your reads as 100% the best reads no matter what and anyone who disagrees with you has a 'garbage take' as you put it.

Oh boy, if that's actually what you think, you really can't read me

at all.

I called that a garbage take because you are just flat-out wrong with it. You were talking about what

I

was doing, and I am the one who knows why I am doing what I am doing. I can't know for

sure

that Cakez has the same reasoning, but it seems pretty reasonable to think so. And you decided that something which is very obvious- voting STD for hypocrisy- was actually something totally different. And it's not even like you can think we're

both

scum, surely at least one of us is doing it for the obvious reason?

What is your read on SirCakez? What is mind boggling about the SirCakez town read reasoning of thinking all 3 are scummy and wanting to go big hood?

I think that's entirely valid. If you think otherwise, that's fine, but I want to know why you think that.

I wasn't boggling at Cakez, I was boggling at you thinking Dan was hard to townread. I don't have a problem with Dan or Cakez thinking that. I lean town on Dan for other reasons though, and Cakez is still just null.

The skirting around is really just me saying you were there while Invisiblity/Python were talking, and even Python commented on how you were only talking about Python/Invisibility.

Like this isn't opinion, this is fact. You were there. I gave my reasoning before with the theory of you being there supporting a possible scum partner in one of them.

Really, what exactly are you talking about here? You're talking about a specific conversation? I comment on things when I have something to comment upon. I can't even figure out what you're talking about here because I recall Python saying that pretty early on and it didn't make much sense to me then and I'm checking my ISO now and it makes even less sense because it seems like basically everything I said in the first few pages was directed at Python. Python is an attention hog. I don't know why you (either of you) feel like I was engaging with Invis the same as Python but not engaging with yessiree, if that's what you're referring to.

[Flavor Leaf]

On the momentum shifting side of things, it 100% had a momentum shift in the game when Merlyn came in. This is essentially a fact. Yessiree had 3 votes on them, and was E-2.

I assume you meant to say Invisibility there. In which case, why Merlyn specifically as opposed to all the rest of us who came in while Invis was E-2?

I think you calling my take a 'Garbage take' is just poor and rude. My read on STD is just as valid as anyone else's. Me saying that me saying I thought the STD hops was gross was me inferring I think it was scum ridden, not that they were bad or unwarranted in a 'garbage take' kind of way.

Everyone's reads are valid, and it's really annoying when people call them trash read or garbage take, because like, let's just be nice. We can call things scummy and whatnot, but yeah.

Okay, fine, your take on why people were going after STD is so inaccurate it's hard to believe it's not intentionally so. It's like, literally the OPPOSITE of what's actually happening.

In fact, I think your entire comments on my thoughts with STD had one agenda: to discredit me. You didn't even care to look at our think why I was saying that.

No, that seems to be what

you're

doing.

You talk about negative sense regarding my take to Invisibility, okay then.

What don't you like about Invisibility's post there? Please enlighten.

I think after Invis's last clarification I'm understanding better what she was trying to say about the Dan read. Can't say I agree with it, but... I suppose it's something someone could possibly use in trying to make a read. Seems like a pretty flimsy basis so I'm not sure how it spawned so much talk.

On your regards to 'the mind boggling', in regards to my ActionDan understanding why he town reads SirCakez, this just feels like your the type who is pushing your reads as 100% the best reads no matter what and anyone who disagrees with you has a 'garbage take' as you put it.

Oh boy, if that's actually what you think, you really can't read me

at all.

I called that a garbage take because you are just flat-out wrong with it. You were talking about what

I

was doing, and I am the one who knows why I am doing what I am doing. I can't know for

sure

that Cakez has the same reasoning, but it seems pretty reasonable to think so. And you decided that something which is very obvious- voting STD for hypocrisy- was actually something totally different. And it's not even like you can think we're

both

scum, surely at least one of us is doing it for the obvious reason?

What is your read on SirCakez? What is mind boggling about the SirCakez town read reasoning of thinking all 3 are scummy and wanting to go big hood?

I think that's entirely valid. If you think otherwise, that's fine, but I want to know why you think that.

I wasn't boggling at Cakez, I was boggling at you thinking Dan was hard to townread. I don't have a problem with Dan or Cakez thinking that. I lean town on Dan for other reasons though, and Cakez is still just null.

The skirting around is really just me saying you were there while Invisiblity/Python were talking, and even Python commented on how you were only talking about Python/Invisibility.

Like this isn't opinion, this is fact. You were there. I gave my reasoning before with the theory of you being there supporting a possible scum partner in one of them.

Really, what exactly are you talking about here? You're talking about a specific conversation? I comment on things when I have something to comment upon. I can't even figure out what you're talking about here because I recall Python saying that pretty early on and it didn't make much sense to me then and I'm checking my ISO now and it makes even less sense because it seems like basically everything I said in the first few pages was directed at Python. Python is an attention hog. I don't know why you (either of you) feel like I was engaging with Invis the same as Python but not engaging with yessiree, if that's what you're referring to.

I meant Merlyn. That's the vote I was referring to in the post you referenced initially that said when the momentum shifting was happening. With the fact of Invisibility going to E-2, I never said there wasn't momentum shifts elsewhere.

It's And, not Or. The Merlyn one's just the one I mentioned in the post you referred to.


STD, I stand by what I read. The more popular take on it doesn't mean I think it's correct.

It's one of those things where a lot of people scum read it and I go, 'nah thats not scummy.'

__

You say I'm discrediting you, but frankly, I've barely been paying attention to your existence other than my catchup, you indirectly protecting Python with all of this, and without a doubt the most memorable thing of your posts for me is you losing it over the slang of 'no cap'.

Other than that, I've just been glossing over you, so idk, I barely care about your slot in comparison to Python's tbh. This is the juciest stuff I've seen from you, and I can see the scum motivation for it to try and discredit me, and you're doing alright with it. You could be town, though, I don't know. If you are, we need to help each other see that we're town. I hope I'm doing that for you showing you where I'm coming from if you are town.


__

Good to see your understanding where Invis is coming from, try doing that with me because right now it just seems like your attacking me aimlessly because you don't understand. I'll do what I can to help you understand, I promise I have my reasons and thought processes. Like, even if you believe I could be scum here, like...I wrote an entire guide on How To Play As Scum you can see in my sig, so I'm not just going to do random things if I am scum. You could make a scum case here like I'm trying to strong arm the game, and get the person who would be targeting hypothetical partner Yessiree, and take out small hood town while pocketing others.

That would be a good reason to scum read me. It's not what's happening, but I could see how someone could read it that way, and I would see it as valid. Only thing I can do is try to say where my head is at and be as clear as I can be when asked, ya feel?

I don't get your other post on the AD thing tbh. But I also don't necessarily care enough or feel strongly about mine to argue about it, so you can just have that one.


Dan is hard to townread, though. Not like it's hard to feel like I'm town reading him, more like I respect his scum game enough to know he's good enough to get me to town read him, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, this is some good Mafia. We're having a great back and forth, and I'm currently in a spot where I have no idea if Aureal is scum or town. Like I still wanna lean scum there, but it's such a good back and forth, that they did alright if they are scum here, but I kind of helped them get there still, but happy to do it.

Good stuff, Aureal.

[ActionDan]

Hmm 2 days I'll look at this tonight. I did not budget my time well this week

[usesPython]

at this point, i just wanna see if this is legit or not

Fine I'll respond to this shitpush, we get scumread all the time for our playstyle and I see the same thing happening here

-A

BTW, can you explain this further? Where have you gotten much in the way of being scumread for playstyle?

Hyperposting means that everyone has Opinions^TM so we're pretty much never in the null zone. That tends to mean that we're either unlimable due to being widely townread or the designated d1 lim. Combine that with people for some reason finding our reliance on meta, metadata, and dissonance as scumhunting tools to be scummy and I'd say that describes a majority of the townies currently SRing us

-A

[Skygazer]

VC 1.17

usesPython

(2): Flavor Leaf, Invisibility

Flavor Leaf

(2): usesPython, Aureal

Save the Dragons

(1): SirCakez

Aureal

(1): Save the Dragons

Not Voting

(3): yessiree, ActionDan, Merlyn

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to reject a player's right to keep playing in this game. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-05-18 09:15:00).

mod notes: 6 / 3 = 2

[SirCakez]

like let's break this down

if i were the only lurker, it would be weird for me to say that because i'd just be saying it to be LAMIST
but i wasn't the only lurker
but you don't really care about that, you just care about the fact that i was lurking because lurking is bad? where's your sus on the other people that were quiet

I don't think you're scummy because you were lurking, I think you're scummy because you called out people for behavior that you were doing yourself

[SirCakez]

yes vs Dan feels TvT I see where both are coming from it's just a logical clash

do you think actiondan was having trouble getting into the game and just piggybacked off ur post because he had more experience playing with you?

I didn't really get that sense, no

[SirCakez]

I kinda want to lim in the big hood today actually
I feel we have a good shot there compared to little hood

How?

I feel like our odds of hitting scum in small hood are pretty close regardless of who we lim

[SirCakez]

I kinda want to lim in the big hood today actually
I feel we have a good shot there compared to little hood

why are you so confident?

I'm not? What gave you the impression I was?

[SirCakez]

I kinda want to lim in the big hood today actually
I feel we have a good shot there compared to little hood

I don't feel the same. I have three scumreads and one townread in big hood.

??? then you should agree with me that big hood is the better elim

[SirCakez]

Not really interested in limming Aureal
What about Merlyn? They haven't posted anything to make me think they are town in the last ~10 pages. My StD vote feels very stale.

[Save The Dragons]

but if you really want a reason, go back and look at what aureal has done to try and sort me

???

Things Aureal has done to sort Save The Dragons: noticed STD saying big hood should post more even though he was the lowest poster in the game; voted STD; encouraged STD to post more
Things Save The Dragons has done to sort Aureal: made a meme; voted Aureal; called Aureal scum

I don't think you're winning the 'attempting to sort' here. Even if you

don't

take into account that I actually have done plenty of things that could be used in attempting to sort, and you have not.

whether or not i've tried to sort you has nothing to do with whether or not you tried to sort me

i don't think i was the lowest poster in the game at the time either, encouraging me to post more doesn't sort me

[Invisibility]

I kinda want to lim in the big hood today actually
I feel we have a good shot there compared to little hood

why are you so confident?

I'm not? What gave you the impression I was?

oh lol I got the wrong impression from you saying we have a good shot

[yessiree]

VOTE: usespython

I'm progressing the gamestate

[Flavor Leaf]

Both small hood slots are pushing their contemporary.

Let’s go there and go next

[usesPython]

Both small hood slots are pushing their contemporary.

Let’s go there and go next

Flavor caring about hoods now? That's a new one

-A

[Flavor Leaf]

I very specifically dont

[Aureal]

STD, I stand by what I read. The more popular take on it doesn't mean I think it's correct.

It's one of those things where a lot of people scum read it and I go, 'nah thats not scummy.'

You're shifting the subject. This is what you said that spawned my indignant reaction:

People targeted him because he thought we should target in big hood, which is like, eh, don't necessarily agree, but I think it's fair for people to be sick of small hood stuff and find a reason to move away from it.

"I don't think it's scummy for STD to do that" isn't at all what you're saying there. You can have that opinion, it's fine. I wouldn't have even reacted to it if you said that. What you did instead with this line was state

as fact

what Cakez and I were doing in a way that makes

us

look bad. And I know for a fact that you are wrong about it because I know why I was doing it. And it should be pretty clear that this interpretation of our actions is wrong, if you pay attention, because I was already targeting in big hood- I voted Cakez to try to generate some content there before STD came along with that post and then seemed like an even better place to push. Saying that I

don't

want to target in big hood is quite an accusation when that's exactly what I've been doing.

You say I'm discrediting you, but frankly, I've barely been paying attention to your existence other than my catchup, you indirectly protecting Python with all of this, and without a doubt the most memorable thing of your posts for me is you losing it over the slang of 'no cap'.

Other than that, I've just been glossing over you, so idk, I barely care about your slot in comparison to Python's tbh. This is the juciest stuff I've seen from you, and I can see the scum motivation for it to try and discredit me, and you're doing alright with it. You could be town, though, I don't know. If you are, we need to help each other see that we're town. I hope I'm doing that for you showing you where I'm coming from if you are town.

You say "barely been paying attention" and yet I feel like you've repeatedly been calling me scum like you're very confident of it. Seems like maybe you should be paying more attention to what I'm doing then? Does your experience lead you to believe that people like being scumread, particularly for reasoning that you just glossed over? Does it help people understand you? Does it make them want to listen to you and believe you're town? Because it sure doesn't work that way for me.

Good to see your understanding where Invis is coming from, try doing that with me because right now it just seems like your attacking me aimlessly because you don't understand.

Again with the subtle discrediting. Really, read all of what you're saying here and tell me how this sounds.

"I'm not even really paying attention to you."
"Try to understand me, you're not even bothering."

From my perspective,

you're

the one who started attacking me aimlessly because you don't understand, or are scum.

I'll do what I can to help you understand, I promise I have my reasons and thought processes. Like, even if you believe I could be scum here, like...I wrote an entire guide on How To Play As Scum you can see in my sig, so I'm not just going to do random things if I am scum. You could make a scum case here like I'm trying to strong arm the game, and get the person who would be targeting hypothetical partner Yessiree, and take out small hood town while pocketing others.

That would be a good reason to scum read me. It's not what's happening, but I could see how someone could read it that way, and I would see it as valid. Only thing I can do is try to say where my head is at and be as clear as I can be when asked, ya feel?

Yeah, I can see your sig. Strong-arming the game is pretty much how I feel about what you're doing. You came in and started pushing a narrative about me being scum that didn't exist before you, and would be massively advantageous to scum if they can turn it into a mis-elimination on me here. A narrative which you're now saying you haven't really even been paying much attention to looking at. And you don't understand why I'd be frustrated with you?

[Aureal]

at this point, i just wanna see if this is legit or not

Fine I'll respond to this shitpush, we get scumread all the time for our playstyle and I see the same thing happening here

-A

BTW, can you explain this further? Where have you gotten much in the way of being scumread for playstyle?

Hyperposting means that everyone has Opinions^TM so we're pretty much never in the null zone. That tends to mean that we're either unlimable due to being widely townread or the designated d1 lim. Combine that with people for some reason finding our reliance on meta, metadata, and dissonance as scumhunting tools to be scummy and I'd say that describes a majority of the townies currently SRing us

-A

Some people here and there scumreading you (like me in 2111) seems like a meager basis for that original statement, and now you're going even further and wringing your hands about being a 'designated d1 lim'? You haven't answered the question about where this has happened, and obviously if it has you were able to get out of it since you claim to have never been voted out.

[Aureal]

I kinda want to lim in the big hood today actually
I feel we have a good shot there compared to little hood

I don't feel the same. I have three scumreads and one townread in big hood.

??? then you should agree with me that big hood is the better elim

I don't follow? Even if we assume I'm correct and scum is in my scumreads, that'd be a 1/3 chance. Which is the same as small hood in total, but I'd similarly narrow down small hood I'd be willing to vote so that becomes 1/2. And we'd be losing the mechanical benefit of being guaranteed to hit a scum by sticking with small hood targets.

And that's also totally just from my perspective but I'm not the one who decides the elimination and thus realistically it could be me as well, and I know that's not good.

[Aureal]

whether or not i've tried to sort you has nothing to do with whether or not you tried to sort me

i don't think i was the lowest poster in the game at the time either, encouraging me to post more doesn't sort me

You were the lowest poster in the game.

How am I supposed to sort you when there's hardly anything to sort? What else am I supposed to do other than encourage you to post? Just sit quietly and

hope

you post more to increase the odds I find something that helps me try to sort you?