Micro 1083: Garlic Bread Heist! (Game Over)

[Thestatusquo]

imma lurk this game.

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My scum buddy is VPB so don't come after either of us.

[Thestatusquo]

no.

[Thestatusquo]

Additional Rules

1. Post 435 is booby trapped. If you make that post you must choose to either self vote for 36 hours or

go vegetarian for 36 hours

I'll take one for the team.

[Thestatusquo]

i'll frown at you if you don't

ok.

[Thestatusquo]

damn.

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Fuck yeah page top get absolutely annihilated ausuka.

[Thestatusquo]

just where she belongs.

[Thestatusquo]

I was gunna legit lurk lmao. I need a nice chill game to take a break and I've never played a micro before, but I seem to be doing a shitty job of it so far.

[Thestatusquo]

I think my tone is town.

[Thestatusquo]

my guess for this alt is Isis or HPE.

Wide guess range.

[Thestatusquo]

A View Into The Tigers Employment History in the Restaurant Business Reveals My Read to be PreMature

VOTE: Alisae

I Believe in This by Process Of Elimination

what the fuck

[Thestatusquo]

In The Competitive Team Based Format The Tiger was Very Into Looking As If he Was Working while Actually Slacking Off

While A View into A game As a Good One he Makes a Similar Remark That I initially Felt was A Preemptive Excuse For Different Play For Being a Mafia Roll

Also I'm going to be low effort until tomorrow probably. Lots of football to watch today and a post count to stay under, but I'll be my usual spammy self then.

Try not to give me 30 pages to read in the meanwhile.

ok. you can be town for now.

[Thestatusquo]

Added Baltar, Unfortunately His Oven is Broken it Seems

200C

SkyGazer
HellBooks

190C

Tris

177C

Xoflef
SheepSaysEep
VPBaltar

140C

TheStatusQuo

why are xof and sheep on the same level as baltar?

XofLef Has Too Little
Sheep Has Something Off I Need Time to Analyse
VPBaltar May Just Have a Quirk and Needs to Explain, But I am Not a Fan At the Moment

Lmao, the game started 4 hours ago? Who do you expect me to post like, Alisae?????

But also, if spelling out xofelf is gonna keep being misspelled, just call me xof, would you?

sure thing golfxelf.

[Thestatusquo]

In The Competitive Team Based Format The Tiger was Very Into Looking As If he Was Working while Actually Slacking Off

While A View into A game As a Good One he Makes a Similar Remark That I initially Felt was A Preemptive Excuse For Different Play For Being a Mafia Roll

Also I'm going to be low effort until tomorrow probably. Lots of football to watch today and a post count to stay under, but I'll be my usual spammy self then.

Try not to give me 30 pages to read in the meanwhile.

This bit isn't going to get old I'm sure

Isn't this the same shit you did in Hollow Knight?

[Thestatusquo]

I remember getting a lot of heat after replacing you because all you did that game was complain about the alts posting style and push them.

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fwiw I don't think their posts are unreadable OR empty.

[Thestatusquo]

Sky is actually engaging in rvs and doing stuff. I was just scum with them and it was like constant lurk from the start

The Heat rises With This One

I don't know what this means

Have you read any of their other posts? I think the meaning of this post should be pretty obvious if you do.

[Thestatusquo]

Sky is actually engaging in rvs and doing stuff. I was just scum with them and it was like constant lurk from the start

The Heat rises With This One

I don't know what this means

Have you read any of their other posts? I think the meaning of this post should be pretty obvious if you do.

I skimmed them, but part of the reason I don't like when people gimmick post is because it makes my eyes glaze over and I end up just skimming past it

perhaps this will help

Added Baltar, Unfortunately His Oven is Broken it Seems

200C

SkyGazer
HellBooks

190C

Tris

177C

Xoflef
SheepSaysEep
VPBaltar

140C

TheStatusQuo

[Thestatusquo]

So I an 177c is that good or bad?

but your heat is rising!

idk this doesnt seem much different from any other nonsense heading people put on reads lists.

[Thestatusquo]

no thank you.

[Thestatusquo]

I dont really understand what the hope is with wagoning me early. I'm not gunna like do anything about it.

[Thestatusquo]

skill issue.

[Thestatusquo]

I am doubling down on my bread town read and I think sheeps reaction here is sus.

I agree that I don't really believe in making a tenuous chain of logic based off of multiple preflip associations as a valid method for finding scum but on the other hand calling it wolfy seems kind of silly to me.

When have you ever seen scum do that?

[Thestatusquo]

I actually change my mind

maybe shea can be town

maybe

it's too early to read shea

and they're easier w/ a body of work

Well which is it?

[Thestatusquo]

In The Competitive Team Based Format The Tiger was Very Into Looking As If he Was Working while Actually Slacking Off

While A View into A game As a Good One he Makes a Similar Remark That I initially Felt was A Preemptive Excuse For Different Play For Being a Mafia Roll

Also I'm going to be low effort until tomorrow probably. Lots of football to watch today and a post count to stay under, but I'll be my usual spammy self then.

Try not to give me 30 pages to read in the meanwhile.

This bit isn't going to get old I'm sure

Isn't this the same shit you did in Hollow Knight?

In retrospect i regret shooting my load early with this. Sometimes I just say things that pop into my head without thinking about whether it would be smart to not say them yet.

I do think there's something to VPBs expressed annoyment about the gimmick posting but I should have waited to see if more would have come from this first.

[Thestatusquo]

annoyment? What the fuck?

[Thestatusquo]

I am posturing user thestatusquo

thats bad for your back.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think anything user alisae just said is important to my read of them.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't know how to read xof. I have no idea what a xof scum game looks like. It's unclear to me that xof even knows what a xof scum game looks like.

[Thestatusquo]

why are you being so nice to me

[Thestatusquo]

ur so weird :/

[Thestatusquo]

I don't have a reads list.

[Thestatusquo]

I think this is tvt.

[Thestatusquo]

these micro dynamics are kind of fucking with my head. I don't think garlic bread has posted like a completely outrageous amount but I'm trying to think through my impressions of how people are interacting with the thread right now and everything is just being drowned out by their posting for me which I think is more to do with the small number of people in the game than with garlic breads posting in particular.

[Thestatusquo]

Sometimes I just say things that pop into my head without thinking about whether it would be smart to not say them yet.

saying something and then later going back to be like "oh man i tipped my hand i should have gathered more ammo and then hit em with the epic observation" is something i would extremely extremely say as scum to perform an evaluative process btw

This is a half formed thought.

Why would you be performing an evaluative process? Is it because doing so is something town do?

Is there some particular reason you think this thought is more likely to be me faking a thought rather than just having a thought or did your evaluation stop at "here is something I can shade"

Because I think its the latter.

[Thestatusquo]

posting a thread emoji and then later going back to be like "oh man i tipped my hand i should have gathered more ammo and then hit em with an even more epic thread emoji" is something i would extremely extremely say as scum to perform the ability to post fire thread emojis btw

[Thestatusquo]

Anyways I'm gonna form a towncore for d1 of Baltar/Myself/Shea/Tris/skygazer

Discuss

I do not really understand this post.

I feel like a lot of what garlic was doing early on felt pretty townie but this feels incredibly out of the blue in an alarming sort of way.

What is the basis for any of these town reads? I understand that GB moved me out of the scummy territory and I felt like that progression was well explained but I dont really have any idea how we go from there to me in the town core.

Same with VPB and I think the progression there is even less understandible.

This post basically just tosses out a bunch of town reads that I think are incredibly unsubstantiated.

[Thestatusquo]

we're gunna have a lot of trouble working together if your reasons for stuff keep including preflip reasoning like this.

[Thestatusquo]

I kinda feel like the whole "I'm going to force y'all to play like I think you should play" vibe the first paragraph of that post has kinda smells town to me also even if I personally find it pretty annoying.

[Thestatusquo]

I play here instead of MU because MU is a bunch of whipper snappers who should get off my lawn.

[Thestatusquo]

if someone disapproves of the way people plays because it gets in the way of like some believed philosophy that town can reach some prevailing truth by communicating proactively and voluminously enough in the marketplace of ideas then i dont actually fault that; it is a team game after all.

i also support someone committing to a posting gimmick for personal enjoyment

but i dont see those two things coexisting very neatly. not that its scum but i dont agree with shea townreading it

What I'm town reading is more the energy and vibe of real frustrating that I am picking up that people are not scumhunting more proactively.

I don't think trying to force people to play in your style is like inherently townie or anything but I think that the vibes that are being put forth by gb are town in that regard because I think the mood of "feeling frustrated because people aren't helping you catch scum" is a pretty hard thing to convincingly fake.

[Thestatusquo]

I think overall too xofelf might be my main scumread just for like general non-stance-ness

this pings me. Didn't you play with xof in election?

[Thestatusquo]

I think overall too xofelf might be my main scumread just for like general non-stance-ness

this pings me. Didn't you play with xof in election?

I was actually thinking abt like I remember them p immediately doing like a “vibes” read for each player in whichever game I played with them and I was gonna ask them to do that gun-to-head for this game because that feels really different to the approach right now

ok but they did that with isos after replacing in and they voted like 1 time in that game. idk it just feels like you should be more familiar with the way xof plays the game that to make a comment like this.

[Thestatusquo]

kinda feels like you didnt idk.

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I vibe with the hellbooks vote.

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I think her thoughts seem incomplete in a lot of places.

I.e. it feels like she's starting with a conclusion and then writing the post to match and not the other way around. I pointed out an example of this where it felt like she had decided she wanted to shade a post of mine and came up with a plausible reason why you could say it was scummy, but didn't have the complimentary thought process of WHY scum fake doing the thing she was suggesting she would fake as scum and didn't seem to have any thought as to whether the comment itself was faked or not.

[Thestatusquo]

I think her thoughts seem incomplete in a lot of places.

I.e. it feels like she's starting with a conclusion and then writing the post to match and not the other way around. I pointed out an example of this where it felt like she had decided she wanted to shade a post of mine and came up with a plausible reason why you could say it was scummy, but didn't have the complimentary thought process of WHY scum fake doing the thing she was suggesting she would fake as scum and didn't seem to have any thought as to whether the comment itself was faked or not.

reading back on this exchange, I'm curious why you didn't follow up more. Seems like hellbrooks was distracted by a shiney thread emoji and never responded to your issue.

Is that your only thought on it? I don't follow up on tons of stuff.

[Thestatusquo]

I think her thoughts seem incomplete in a lot of places.

I.e. it feels like she's starting with a conclusion and then writing the post to match and not the other way around. I pointed out an example of this where it felt like she had decided she wanted to shade a post of mine and came up with a plausible reason why you could say it was scummy, but didn't have the complimentary thought process of WHY scum fake doing the thing she was suggesting she would fake as scum and didn't seem to have any thought as to whether the comment itself was faked or not.

reading back on this exchange, I'm curious why you didn't follow up more. Seems like hellbrooks was distracted by a shiney thread emoji and never responded to your issue.

Is that your only thought on it? I don't follow up on tons of stuff.

I mean, it wasn't some amazing point. I don't think hellbrooks is scummy for posting a half thought lol

That's...not what I fucking said? That was an example of the overall approach.

This feels like kind of a deliberate misrep of what I said.

[Thestatusquo]

I Have Expessed a Complex Opinion on Every Slot, How many Mafia Have you Seen Do That?

lolwut

[Thestatusquo]

hellbooks is in my PoE but i'm finding it really hard to vote her

i feel like she's playing like she did in datisi's game but like hamming it up more if that makes sense? kinda feel like she'd change it up a bit considering she got miselimmed there? at the same time i feel like if she rolled scum she'd avoid playing in the way that got her miselimmed? this is why i said i try not to do meta i guess

I think this is a weird post. I don't think changing playstyles is as easy as you're making it sound here.

Its weird because I think I remember you saying something earlier about like trying to post less and failing so it seems like you should be aware of that.

[Thestatusquo]

Is this when we fight now Shea? I don't think I'm misrepping you. If you'd like to explain your point in whatever subtlety you think I'm missing, be my guest.

I literally did not say hellbooks was scummy for saying a half thought. I gave one example of a thought process.

This feels like scum baltar

VOTE: VPB

[Thestatusquo]

Someone who gazes at tris.

[Thestatusquo]

trying to play mafia by having a solve 18 pages into day 1 is truly bizarre.

[Thestatusquo]

also I've been on this site almost two decades. I don't think I've ever seen someone breadcrumb a read before.

[Thestatusquo]

Is this when we fight now Shea? I don't think I'm misrepping you. If you'd like to explain your point in whatever subtlety you think I'm missing, be my guest.

I literally did not say hellbooks was scummy for saying a half thought. I gave one example of a thought process.

This feels like scum baltar

VOTE: VPB

Ok, so what were you saying. Use your words.

My original post was nuanced and clear. I do not believe you didn't understand it.

[Thestatusquo]

trying to play mafia by having a solve 18 pages into day 1 is truly bizarre.

Please Stop Evaluating the Accuracy of my Reads By How they are Presented and the Confidence behind them and Instead Evaluate them for what they Are, thank you

This is literally insane. Of course I'm going to evaluate the way you come up when I'm evaluating whether they're good or not.

If you don't want criticism on how you form reads form them in a more sane way

[Thestatusquo]

trying to play mafia by having a solve 18 pages into day 1 is truly bizarre.

Please Stop Evaluating the Accuracy of my Reads By How they are Presented and the Confidence behind them and Instead Evaluate them for what they Are, thank you

This is literally insane. Of course I'm going to evaluate the way you come up when I'm evaluating whether they're good or not.

If you don't want criticism on how you form reads form them in a more sane way

You Misread.

I Meant You Should Not Have a Negative Bias towards my Conclusion Because you think my Method is "Wrong"

But i absolutely should when it comes to determining if i agree with you.

[Thestatusquo]

X is scum so i will find y on page 18 with neither of them flipped is so fraught with peril that i think your read of x is no better than rand even if i buy the premise that x is scum.

And quite frankly you don't get to appeal to proficiency (i.e so many correct reads ignored) when playing on an alt because i can't go verify that claim myself. I doubt it on face because I've been playing this game a very long time and I've never seen the methods you're describing here be more than mildly successful except by dumb luck but you definitely don't get to go 'trust me I'm good' when you're playing on an alt and i can't verify that.

[Thestatusquo]

Which is to say that the part of the game you're missing that alisae is referring to i think is you have to convince people to actually Lim your scum reads. If you're going to convince me to Lim your scum reads it's never going to be with arguments like those

[Thestatusquo]

*your read of y is no better than rand sorry phone posting

[Thestatusquo]

Sometimes I just say things that pop into my head without thinking about whether it would be smart to not say them yet.

saying something and then later going back to be like "oh man i tipped my hand i should have gathered more ammo and then hit em with the epic observation" is something i would extremely extremely say as scum to perform an evaluative process btw

This is a half formed thought.

Why would you be performing an evaluative process? Is it because doing so is something town do?

Is there some particular reason you think this thought is more likely to be me faking a thought rather than just having a thought or did your evaluation stop at "here is something I can shade"

Because I think its the latter.

Ok, so you're saying hellbrooks is shading you with a half formed thought.

I don't think your assessment is even accurate. Brooks is saying "that's totally some shiz I'd do as scum to look like I'm doing stuff". You might disagree that's what you were doing. I don't think I would read it so cynically, but I'm not sure how this is a good reason to say, yeah let's vote brooks. It's pretty flimsy from you in my estimation.

It also feels like you're getting fairly defensive over some pretty minor questioning.

It wasnt just that thought, you're getting caught up on the example. You can tell that from how I use the words "an example of this"

But fine I will too. This is still not what I am saying. A full thought on someones alignment goes something like this, syllogistically.

A: Player X did this thing.
B: Players who are scum are more likely to do that thing
Therefore C: Player X is more likely scum.

But there's a lot of work that gets baked into that B. In order for B and A to synergize into C you need to consider why scum players are doing the thing in the first place. Are they doing it because they are trying to mimic a town thought process or action? If so, then pointing out that player X did this thing is not a sufficient reason to scum read them for it. You need to do the work of actually making an argument (or at the very least a claim) that there is something about this specific instance of The Thing that makes you think it is scum mimicking the thing and not just...you know. The town thing. That town do. That scum are trying to replicate.

A town thought process usually at least considers possibilities like this. Instead, to me, in this instance it looked like hellbooks was working with a model more like this

A: I want to shade shea's slot
B: Shea's slot did a thing that I can plausibly make an argument scum might do

It's about the direction of the thoughts to me, and this isn't the only thing hellbooks has posted that to me looks like the thought process is reversed or the thoughts skip a vital step to reach a desired conclusion.

[Thestatusquo]

Do it coward.

[Thestatusquo]

"oh i recognize this thing as something ive chosen to do before as scum" is something i point out bc its interesting to me -- i did it in other game too. about fireisredsir and meuh. citation post 91 and 132. both town btw, so the odds looks pretty good for you (no need for math book, tris). i guess im just super good at doing things town do as scum

I want to say That I have Been In the Mind of a HellBooks Slot in the Past, Not Just As A Fellow Player, And I did Not See This Vibe At All, Not a Hint of it.

Ok most of these I can parse but what in elephant is this

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Hellybuks

[Thestatusquo]

vp baltar is so villagery

Why? It seems to me like he's trying to not take any stances.

[Thestatusquo]

Hm. Right after he posts a stance.

Very cool shea. yes very smart.

[Thestatusquo]

Ausuka is so bad at pagetops.

[Thestatusquo]

I think the D1 elimination will probably be Shea Sheep or Balter

can u explain why you want to lim shea? I am going back through your iso and you were calling him town at one point. I'm confused.

This is a great question? To me it looks like a misrep?

Alisae didn't say they wanted me or the other slots limmed there, they said they think that will be the eventual elimination.

[Thestatusquo]

Eh actually maybe I'm wrong about that

[Thestatusquo]

I just went back and read the context and they then immediately say they don't see themselves voting outside of those slots.

[Thestatusquo]

This reminds me of town ali though and its a part of her town game I think she struggles to replicate as scum.

She just feels so much more focused on achieving specific goals as scum and here it seems like she's not doing that. I associate sort of moon logic trying to fit the game together into solves with town ali play and I think that when she tries to do the same sort of stuff as scum it doesn't feel as real to me.

[Thestatusquo]

In business company I played with town ali and she does a lot of that there too.

Comes in. Bam this seems villagery, my team solve is {three names seemingly plucked from nowhere} we should quick lim them all.

4 pages later {other two players} are confirmed wolfy so actually the solve is {three completely different names from the first one}

Its rapid fire solving and I don't think its very effective for finding scum but I actually don't think she replicates this approach vry well as scum.

[Thestatusquo]

She was scum in PYP in the just finished team mafia.

[Thestatusquo]

Sheep doesn't do that, sheep likes to make a lot of rapidfire micro observations about things that might be alignment indicative.

I think he's pretty good at replicating it as scum, but to be fair its a much easier style to replicate.

[Thestatusquo]

wtf I leave the thread for a just like an hour to get some work done and y'all let ausuka page top wtf

[Thestatusquo]

Tris
Vp Baltar
Xof
Shea
Alisae
-----------
Hellbooks
Sheep

this is a typo I'm 1.

[Thestatusquo]

Its so easy to try to write shea and have it come out "tris" instead so I forgive u.

[Thestatusquo]

I've been getting that a lot lately.

[Thestatusquo]

I think it's kind of slimy for hell books to make a whole post dedicated to how get shit posting isn't being will received when i actually don't even think that is true. I think this game has been very silly/accepting of shit posts so the whole thing looks performative in not a townie way to me.

[Thestatusquo]

Thinking about this a little bit more I guess maybe I can buy that she does perceive the gamestate that way because shes receiving pressure and its easy to link those two things in your head like oh I am doing the silly posts and then people want to turn me into death but I don't think I've actually seen anyone state that they have a problem with hellbooks silly posting but it seems like it could somewhat be an attempt to minimize the pressure shes under as like oh its a playstyle thing when I don't think thats actually why she's getting pressure and its certainly not why I'm pressuring her.

[Thestatusquo]

For me, a big part of the fun of mafia lies in the social and joking around with friends aspects. But I recognize that this isn't true for most people -- I just had a very great time playing in a game where my largely unserious posting was fairly positively received by everyone, so I thought I'd just keep doing that forever. I quickly realized that this wasn't the case for this game and I'm struggling and feeling reluctant to adjust to actually acting as a "Respectable player" as affirmed by the "Mafia literature". Especially as someone who operates on the humbling foundational belief that my scumreads are not distinguishably better than random. Or at least i have not been strongly compelled to believe otherwise by experience or consistent game playing. I would like to advocate by saying that thats probably why I've been less broadly engaged in this game compared to the other one, as stated by baltar: not because of me getting pressured, or even because of my work obligations, but mainly for this reason -- That my preferred style of unhelpful posting is (reasonably, i admit) not being received as well.

To answer your question, i would ask you to refer to my devil4lyfe pool. Ofc i've been a little shaken on sky & tris. I dont have a townread on baltar. I'm actually quite willing to be a warm body on a sheep lim (a sheep if you will). Yes, my own partner! The scandal! That being said, i would discourage you from expecting me, or indeed many other people, to have opinions on people, or associations between people, that are as strong as yours. But it doesnt seem like from my perspective that folks turning up the heat on sheep is at the moment yielding veal, which i use as a food metaphor, to emulate your own gimmick, for "better answers."

hey does anyone else townread hellbooks for this post?

so I guess my answer to this is no and I am actually quite worried that you do.

[Thestatusquo]

I dont really see how that changes anything I said.

[Thestatusquo]

Do you think this game has been uber serious and unreceptive to nonsense? I think the opposite has been true.

[Thestatusquo]

Shea - I'm never sure if I'm just reading Shea in a positive light just because of how much I like him as a person, or because that's how he's playing in games. And I'm aware this is a weak spot, but here we are. That being said, while you started out by saying that you wanted to lurk and chill more, I'm missing some of that very pointed directed questioning you do a lot in games. That isn't to say you aren't questioning people on things they say and giving your thoughts to them, but there's usually a different force to them that I'm not seeing here. But I don't think it's AI, might just be Tired

If anything I'm generally more pointed as scum.

I have just enjoyed floating around this game after the marathon of TM and my other obligations right now being much larger than this one.

I've enjoyed the vibes of this game tbh and part of that IS hellbooks posting but what do I know maybe they're secretly toxic vibes and I've just been dying this whole time because of the toxic vibe fumes and all of you are trying to warn me but its too late.

[Thestatusquo]

I feel better about baltar than I did earlier today.

I'd like more thoughts on why ali from him.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm starting to entertain a worry that garlic is scum and this is just really elaborate thread control.

[Thestatusquo]

But maybe that worry is a bit overblown because i don't think they've been super aggressive about bringing people over to what they're pushing, just extremely loud about saying what they think

[Thestatusquo]

I'm starting to entertain a worry that garlic is scum and this is just really elaborate thread control.

U actually townread sheep for the bare minimum don't u

Are you jealous?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm starting to entertain a worry that garlic is scum and this is just really elaborate thread control.

U actually townread sheep for the bare minimum don't u

Are you jealous?

No I have just been around the block enough to guess these things xd

I am mildly townreading sheep because I feel like he feels like town sheep from the posting patterns I've seen.

Its a mild town read because like I said I don't really think his style is hard to fake as scum but you seem to be trying to base a scum read on like minimalism and shit from the slot which is something I associate with sheep from either alignment so I don't find it super compelling.

[Thestatusquo]

Do waterboarding instead.

[Thestatusquo]

wolves dont say meep

[Thestatusquo]

I feel like skygazer is trying to emulate hellbooks posting style a bit and I'm not really sure what that means.

[Thestatusquo]

you tell me. am I crazy for seeing it?

[Thestatusquo]

I actually kind of didnt mean that as a shit post either.

It kind of feels like they're trying to fit in by blending in with the way in which you're engaging with the thread.

[Thestatusquo]

I meet sad very frequently

[Thestatusquo]

hellbooks why are you voting me

[Thestatusquo]

I didn't read vpbs case but I think alisae is plausibly in her scum range.

[Thestatusquo]

idk I've been waiting for like follow up for a while now.

[Thestatusquo]

Why would Alisae have to powerwolf if you're already controlling the gamestate?

Could be you're teammates.

Could be alisae is just fine with the directions you're pushing.

Alisae doesn't just control the game willy nilly when scum, e does so when its advantageous to do so.

[Thestatusquo]

Why would Alisae have to powerwolf if you're already controlling the gamestate?

Could be you're teammates.

Could be alisae is just fine with the directions you're pushing.

Alisae doesn't just control the game willy nilly when scum, e does so when its advantageous to do so.

mate her fucking process of poking people is towny as fuck, stop living in the present and read back instead of trying to rely on scum framing

What scum framing have I relied on? I haven't even read the case, I'm just reacting to your comments.

[Thestatusquo]

it is also very uncharacteristic for town baltar to assume pushes on him = scum, he has actually said this as town in a game before that he doesn't do that and does analyze people(and he did in the game I'm referencing)

so uh, keep lying baltar it makes the case easier to make.

this is half the work. In my experience its also out of character for scum baltar to do that.

[Thestatusquo]

Why would Alisae have to powerwolf if you're already controlling the gamestate?

Could be you're teammates.

Could be alisae is just fine with the directions you're pushing.

Alisae doesn't just control the game willy nilly when scum, e does so when its advantageous to do so.

mate her fucking process of poking people is towny as fuck, stop living in the present and read back instead of trying to rely on scum framing

What scum framing have I relied on? I haven't even read the case, I'm just reacting to your comments.

oh im fully aware you are living in the present

Uh, ok dude.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Garlic Bread

This is bullshit.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: Garlic Bread

This is bullshit.

i love recency bias

I think its just taken me a bit to come around to the fact that the things you're saying so confidently might not be things you truly believe. At that point I'm just left with the thread control.

[Thestatusquo]

I think gb is koba and that is really influencing my read here.

[Thestatusquo]

the recency of my scum game being the last thing there is clouding the reads esp since the 2 here discussing that last game have *only* experienced my scumgame and never my towngame(well xof has seen my towngame from the PoV of a host twice, and I think that they would do well to remember that)

I modded you as town in among us.

[Thestatusquo]

Further i don't believe koba needs to go meta alisae.

[Thestatusquo]

Would explain why it took only 3 minutes to "reassess".

This is true, but then why the conviction in the other direction for the entire 10 pages prior.

[Thestatusquo]

Further i don't believe koba needs to go meta alisae.

I did bc this game came off as neither scum ali or town ali solidly in my head, just solidly as *not scum* ali based on my memory of her powerwolfy games.

Scum Koba avoids metaing people like the plague because of aforementioned difficulty in pushing people with it so funny that you think it's automatically scum indicative.

And regardless, you have played mafia long enough that making assumptions like this must have led to poor conclusions often enough that i would hope you notice at some point and self reflect.

the irony of being told how to play mafia by one of the worst players on the site who coincidentally has done the least amount of self reflection is not lost on me.

Maybe drop your condescending bullshit tone when you talk to me, k?

[Thestatusquo]

I've read plenty of games of yours. You usually tank whatever team you're on just like you did in tm.

[Thestatusquo]

also in this whole conversation but especially right here:

also im posting this now to call it and will quote it post game, shea will be completely silent when my reads are more accurate than his post game

you're assuming me town.

Wonder why that is? I thought you said you had respect for my wide scum range?

[Thestatusquo]

kinda feels like you are, yeah. I'm glad you agree.

[Thestatusquo]

you're not one of the worst players on the site but the tone you were taking with me was annoying the crap out of me because you're nowhere near as good as you think you are and if you want to have a reasonable game with me you will stop fucking talking down to me repeatedly or I will give back everything you give and more.

That's just a taste. Cut out your egotistical bullshit when you're talking to me.

[Thestatusquo]

X is scum so i will find y on page 18 with neither of them flipped is so fraught with peril that i think your read of x is no better than rand even if i buy the premise that x is scum.

And quite frankly you don't get to appeal to proficiency (i.e so many correct reads ignored) when playing on an alt because i can't go verify that claim myself. I doubt it on face because I've been playing this game a very long time and I've never seen the methods you're describing here be more than mildly successful except by dumb luck but you definitely don't get to go 'trust me I'm good' when you're playing on an alt and i can't verify that.

At least I know how to evaluate this now.

It's "not nearly as proficient as they think they are"

[Thestatusquo]

[citation needed]

[Thestatusquo]

anyway, lets lim this.

[Thestatusquo]

congrats on having played like 4000 games of mafia and lucked into some correct reads once in a while.

[Thestatusquo]

It's cute that all you know how to do is resort to insults.

[Thestatusquo]

you take 5 posts to spew out some random number generator bullshit of buzzwords that doesn't even mean anything and then you pin a ribbon to your chest like damn koba u got his ass.

[Thestatusquo]

you continue to spew me town in every post. Not even beginning to consider the possibility I'm scum.

If we can get back to the game, or are you not done with your little brag/insultfest?

[Thestatusquo]

Interesting that you want to offer a truce after I scum read you and very convenient you want everyone else to ignore the last two pages where you perspective slipped repeatedly.

[Thestatusquo]

tunneling lmao? I spent the first half of this game convinced you were town.

[Thestatusquo]

you on the other hand came into this game scum reading my slot for no reason, then when it became clear no one else was going to jump on you jumped ship and started trying to pocket me instead but it hasn't worked because there's no internal consistency for your either of these poles of your reads/

You throw in stuff like "I am really only placing you low out of respect for your game" which uhhh lmao I think we can all see thats a lie from reading the last few pages of this game. You don't respect me at all.

You keep referring to my "meta" and my "positioning" but theres no actual reasoning behind your reads, just buzzwords.

It's fakesauce.

Pedit: Scum reading someone is not necessarily a tunnel and describing it as such is a misrep. I believe you are a scum, I am clearly also considering other players in this game. That is definitionally not a tunnel.

[Thestatusquo]

WHAT 3 MINUTE RESEARCH DID YOU DO THAT MADE YOU BECOME A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSON

mind meld here; i think that 3 minutes of meta diving is likely just gonna lead to surface level observations that aren't very AI.

ali is a fairly polarized player so it actually will find AI stuff, alisae will corroborate this

All things you already knew when you claim to have gone and meta read them.

Which you didn't do.

[Thestatusquo]

like i found shea town primarily based on how he pushed other players, similarly to tris(ironically the most town when they pushed me ) [future note for me if either are mafia: stop getting owned by people who push you in bad faith]
like im p sure thats why baltar is pushing alisae bc of the lack of good pushes and alisae was pushing someone else earlier for similar so its like .

ok yea we need better scumreads and less focusing on townreads on this point methinks

look at this deliberate attempt to call us potentially scum after getting called out on not having that perspective.

[Thestatusquo]

perhaps like lets make it this way: if anyone actually believes any of the arguments shea has against me, please bring them to me, I will only interact with the arguments then, I think that will help, until shea reaches a point where he is forced to reeval, or one of us are dead.

you havent interacted with my arguments a single time.

You just go "THIS IS LEVEL 0 TO UR TOWN META SURPRISING YOU ARE ON A TOWNIE FEEDBACK LOOP" and then you crack open a bottle of champaign.

[Thestatusquo]

Can someone who is not Koba tell my why sheep is scum

[Thestatusquo]

I'm kinda checked out after the koba reveal but this is basically open wolfing from gb at this point and sheep is likely town because this push is ass

[Thestatusquo]

I also think there's probably one wolf in {ali GB} and not two I don't think the interplay between them was theatre I think its one pocketing the other.

[Thestatusquo]

I could see a world where gb is like aggressive townie and scum ali is taking advantage of that to push them lim and then with [Redacted] after the flip.

[Thestatusquo]

*taking advantage of that push for the miselim and then will [redacted]

sorry.

[Thestatusquo]

I guess sheep is like not the worst flip in the world because it gives me a lot of clarity on those slots but like I still find his posting mildly townie and I see the process behind his posts pretty clearly so I'd much rather flip GB because

a) I think they're way more likely to flip red
b) I think the flip gives us the same information as the sheep lim while not beating around the bush
c) I am way more concerned about potential scum gb controlling the thread than I am about sheep doing so.

[Thestatusquo]

I'll admit to being a little bit biased with c because I have to be much more active in trying to control the thread if gb is alive and I just don't really have the wim and interacting with them is extremely unpleasant so that is something that concerns me a lot.

[Thestatusquo]

I agree.

[Thestatusquo]

I also ig if I squint could see a world where all 3 are town. I don't really think so though.

If thats the case I think hellbooks is always scum.

[Thestatusquo]

or its vp baller & shea

i still want to run a lawnmower through shea vp baller and sheep

see this post and the one prior make me think scum ali is very possible again because declaring I'm town while saying they want to keep me in the lim pool is a very agenda-y thing that scum ali would do where its less clear to me that town!ali thinks I'm town and then keeps putting me in the poe.

I feel like thats kind of the opposite of how town!ali would react to me being clearly town.

[Thestatusquo]

I really don't want gb to be town though.

[Thestatusquo]

itt me and tris talk about our feelings.

[Thestatusquo]

or its vp baller & shea

i still want to run a lawnmower through shea vp baller and sheep

see this post and the one prior make me think scum ali is very possible again because declaring I'm town while saying they want to keep me in the lim pool is a very agenda-y thing that scum ali would do where its less clear to me that town!ali thinks I'm town and then keeps putting me in the poe.

I feel like thats kind of the opposite of how town!ali would react to me being clearly town.

defending obvious scum sheep is pretty agenda-y too ngl

this is so obviously bad faith that its breathtaking.

[Thestatusquo]

If you're town I'm going to piss on your grave after you lose us this game. If you're scum I'll add your pelt to my trophy case.

[Thestatusquo]

I've elaborated plenty. Do not mistake my exhaustion from having to deal with your constant thread presence for not having a good argument. I've made my arguments very clearly no matter how many times you keep saying the opposite with no explanation.

The cool thing about mafia is there's other people in the thread and I don't have to convince the obvious bad faith person, but everyone else.

[Thestatusquo]

and i'm off for the night.

have fun y'all.

[Thestatusquo]

Like.. it feels like you do this thing where if somebody doesn't explain something in the exact same way you would or from the same perspective, then they are wrong and forcing things, or you entirely disregard them and their viewpoints as if they never happened. That's such a weird way to play that I'm surprised it ever works for you *and* that you still come back and play more games. Cuz like, it's always going to get you into these arguments and situations.

See for me my reaction to this is to think that there is a reason why someone is constantly interacting with me in bad faith.

[Thestatusquo]

Koba's reaction to my posts combined with the constant perspective slips into the immediate overcorrection into shading me when that was pointed out into saying that literally no one agrees with me when its incredibly obvious that's not true has long since veered into the territory where I am probably overbiased towards thinking it can't possibly be real.

[Thestatusquo]

Frankly the only reason I'm not lurking out today at this point in order to stop taking abuse every time I post is a stubborn desire to not let them win by bullying their way through this lim.

[Thestatusquo]

idk most people seem to think my read is fine.

[Thestatusquo]

literally two players have said basically that in the last like 4 pages.

[Thestatusquo]

must be my fucking scum buddies.

[Thestatusquo]

i dont see anyone else posting after I posted the quotes, weird, must be some hidden posts

you are such an unpleasant person. No one is posting because you make the game deeply unpleasant to play.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not the person who was blacklisted by like 8 different people in TM.

[Thestatusquo]

it hasnt even been 24 hours since the post, AND everyone has posted within the past 24 hours, so that kind of assertion is extremely silly and just bleeds what that you assert other's POV = your own POV.

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't think Shea's reasons for thinking sheep is town are forced or bullshit. I don't even think Shea has made actively bad posts either so I'm always really confused that you have the perspective on them that you do. Like.. it feels like you do this thing where if somebody doesn't explain something in the exact same way you would or from the same perspective, then they are wrong and forcing things, or you entirely disregard them and their viewpoints as if they never happened. That's such a weird way to play that I'm surprised it ever works for you *and* that you still come back and play more games. Cuz like, it's always going to get you into these arguments and situations.

but go off about how I'm projecting some more please.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not the person who was blacklisted by like 8 different people in TM.

you are not 8 people

first correct thing you've said in days.

irrelevant to the conversation, but technically correct.

[Thestatusquo]

I've got a request maybe for you: Could you try shutting up and letting the other players in this game play? I promise I won't post for 24 hours if you don't either.

I'm only posting to counter your thread influence at this point because you are dragging this game off a cliff and someone needs to stand up to you.

[Thestatusquo]

Then you should take me up on my offer. If sheep is so obviously correct surely the rest of the town will see that without me posting, right?

[Thestatusquo]

I've got a request maybe for you: Could you try shutting up and letting the other players in this game play? I promise I won't post for 24 hours if you don't either.

I'm only posting to counter your thread influence at this point because you are dragging this game off a cliff and someone needs to stand up to you.

weird im trying to squash your influence too to not let you hijack the obviously correct sheep wagon and get people to vote elsewhere

AND this is nonsense. You've posted more than any other two non-tris players in this game COMBINED.

But yeah can you please shut up no one wants to hear it anymore.

I'll shut up too and we can let the town decide if my reasons are bullshit or not.

[Thestatusquo]

Sounds like you sure aren't very confident in it being obvious after all.

Weird.

[Thestatusquo]

or maybe you're just physically incapable of shutting up.

that would make a lot of sense tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

or maybe consider the possibility that you're just wrong for once in your god damned life?

[Thestatusquo]

You don't care what I say so I don't really see any reason to talk to you about any of what I think.

[Thestatusquo]

I've been very clear about everything I've thought as I'm thinking it. Any other player in the game can tell you that. Maybe try reading my posts for more than your next one liner.

[Thestatusquo]

i dont see anyone else posting after I posted the quotes, weird, must be some hidden posts

you are such an unpleasant person. No one is posting because you make the game deeply unpleasant to play.

are you having fun this game?
I don't understand why this post is necessary to make

If someone is trying to be a bully to me I'm going to give it right back.

There's one right way to deal with bullies.

[Thestatusquo]

Im not sure why i in particular am being sold so hard on voting sheep at this particular moment surely there are more willing and trigger happy collaborators, as well as ample time to recruit them. Is the reason you want me in particular to vote sheep information-gathering in nature

Consider the world where sheep flips town and who the scum will be pushing tomorrow in that world.

[Thestatusquo]

Cool can we Lim gb now

[Thestatusquo]

Not in a million years

[Thestatusquo]

At this point ausuka could come into the thread and flip sheep red in front of me and I'm not voting there.

[Thestatusquo]

what is happening

Garlic is literally caught scum.

[Thestatusquo]

I think its hellbooks alisae if I'm being completely honest.

[Thestatusquo]

I just can't deal with the complete lack of self awareness that koba has and the incessant talking down to me and insulting me.

I don't want to let them bully me out of playing this game that I joined because I was fucking invited to play by a person who knows they're in my blacklist and still decided to secret alt play in a game with me and then spent the entire time after revealing calling me names.

And frankly I disagree with sheep that this is a) a trade (koba has more than enough self-confidence to expect they'll be able to talk themselves out being limmed tomorrow if you flip green) and b) disagree that koba wouldn't trade themselves for an inconsequential slot when I literally just watched them trade themselves for kowa in team mafia and this is when they come in and are like "oh I had a reason for doing that and it is actually very smart *masters thesis*" but actually it was incredibly bad and borderline game throwing how they and mastina played that game so I refuse to accept the conclusion that such a play is out of range.

[Thestatusquo]

fwiw Garlics pronouns are listed as bread but kobas pronouns are they/them.

[Thestatusquo]

I just can't deal with the complete lack of self awareness that koba has and the incessant talking down to me and insulting me.

I don't want to let them bully me out of playing this game that I joined because I was fucking invited to play by a person who knows they're in my blacklist and still decided to secret alt play in a game with me and then spent the entire time after revealing calling me names.

And frankly I disagree with sheep that this is a) a trade (koba has more than enough self-confidence to expect they'll be able to talk themselves out being limmed tomorrow if you flip green) and b) disagree that koba wouldn't trade themselves for an inconsequential slot when I literally just watched them trade themselves for kowa in team mafia and this is when they come in and are like "oh I had a reason for doing that and it is actually very smart *masters thesis*" but actually it was incredibly bad and borderline game throwing how they and mastina played that game so I refuse to accept the conclusion that such a play is out of range.

stop talking about my skill level, thanks. we get it, you think im garbage at the game despite evidence showing otherwise, just like your push on me here shows that you will ignore evidence if you have hurt feelings. read the scum pt in that game if you want to learn something about the context of the play in that game, thanks.

Its relevant to your alignment. You are perfectly capable of doing this as scum and you know it. Whether you admit it or not is a different question.

[Thestatusquo]

i already explained i did that quickhammer because i learned i would be moving from where i was living because my parents were getting divorced and moving back in with my mom to help her out, but i guess im just a shit player ,i shoulda prevented the divorce by making my dad be a good person.

Not touching this, don't think its particularly relevant to the conversation in a world where replacing out exists.

I'm sorry that your dad is a shitty person. I can relate to that.

[Thestatusquo]

Can't wait for sheep to flip green and for gb to be like oh actually I knew they were town I was just reaction testing tsq and he's scum now for sure.

[Thestatusquo]

Can't wait for sheep to flip green and for gb to be like oh actually I knew they were town I was just reaction testing tsq and he's scum now for sure.

Why are you so certain he flips green?

I don't think I implied certainty. If I'm being completely honest (and I have said this multiple times) I think sheeps posting is mildly townie and I think the insistance of alisae and gb that they're the lim today is bizarre, and I find none of their arguments for a scum sheep world to be remotely compelling.

I think the aggression combined with the tactics of taking over the thread completely and disallowing any other conversation at all without shouting over it are extremely anti town and that makes me think my town read on sheep is right. When I see someone I think is town pushed by slots that are playing at a minimum anti town I feel like its time to double down, but ali and gb never let the game state breathe.

[Thestatusquo]

I also think there's probably one wolf in {ali GB} and not two I don't think the interplay between them was theatre I think its one pocketing the other.

I could see a world where gb is like aggressive townie and scum ali is taking advantage of that to push them lim and then with [Redacted] after the flip.

*taking advantage of that push for the miselim and then will [redacted]

sorry.

I guess sheep is like not the worst flip in the world because it gives me a lot of clarity on those slots but like I still find his posting mildly townie and I see the process behind his posts pretty clearly so I'd much rather flip GB because

a) I think they're way more likely to flip red
b) I think the flip gives us the same information as the sheep lim while not beating around the bush
c) I am way more concerned about potential scum gb controlling the thread than I am about sheep doing so.

I'll admit to being a little bit biased with c because I have to be much more active in trying to control the thread if gb is alive and I just don't really have the wim and interacting with them is extremely unpleasant so that is something that concerns me a lot.

I also ig if I squint could see a world where all 3 are town. I don't really think so though.

If thats the case I think hellbooks is always scum.

or its vp baller & shea

i still want to run a lawnmower through shea vp baller and sheep

see this post and the one prior make me think scum ali is very possible again because declaring I'm town while saying they want to keep me in the lim pool is a very agenda-y thing that scum ali would do where its less clear to me that town!ali thinks I'm town and then keeps putting me in the poe.

I feel like thats kind of the opposite of how town!ali would react to me being clearly town.

This is all still how I feel.

[Thestatusquo]

To quote someone from team Mafia, i don't really remember who: solving via mech is cringe.

[Thestatusquo]

Do we have anything to discuss before we flip baltar?

[Thestatusquo]

Ok well.

That seems like as plausible an excuse as any for me to vote out the caught scum. [v[GB[/v]

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: GB

[Thestatusquo]

I'll do baltar if we can do gb tomorrow.

[Thestatusquo]

i wanna vote baltar

Just lim me then. I can't even spend time with this nonsense of people making up claims. Obviously one or more people are telling the truth, but I'm pretty pissed that there is clearly someone lying and people are like "yes kill VP" when there is zero evidence of an ACTUAL guilty on me. The claims clearly conflict and do no actually show I'm scum.

I didn't take any actions last night. Kill me so I can stop reading this game.

What conflicts about them?

[Thestatusquo]

Eh fuck it VOTE: baltar I'm letting annoyance cloud my judgement.

This probably flips red like 80% of the time.

[Thestatusquo]

The simple fact is that vp tried to claim no responsibility for sheep wagon despite egging on others onto it, considered the roleblock claim a direct CC(also called hellbooks doc claim obvious in the same breath)
Why does baltar assume its a scum faking a guilty when they supposedly believe an alternate possibility (hellbooks being real doc).


The logical consistency of thought doesn't add up.

I also think there's another tell where baltar from pov of scum thinks that 3 protectives is "too many". Mathblade is the best example of a player who falls into this tell. Personally I think with 0 invests a triple protective setup is viable to exist(mostly bc I know how ausuka perceives balance even if I disagree with it)

This is such a bus post. VPB was on the sheep wagon because you were goading everyone onto it and now YOU'RE the person taking no responsibility for it by trying to push it off onto other people.

Your little performative self vote hasn't absolved you of anything and I'm gunna be on you like white on rice tomorrow.

[Thestatusquo]

I think shea knows he's kinda playing anti wincon with his tunnel on me bc he seems to be confident of being alive somehow in a scum me world

Won't admit it but will b ironic berating me for confidence on a wrong push into this now , the excuse will be funny for why he couldn't somehow find me town when I pushed to make myself findable

The last time I saw someone use this argument multiple times preemptively it was shirou in business company. He was scum. He had killed the person specifically to try to use this argument against me.

You have played enough mafia that you know this is WIFOM horseshit especially when its brought up unprompted by the person who it benefits and further you know you are plenty confident in your abilities and respect mine so little that you think you can win any 1v1 with me anyway.

Don't insult us by making arguments like this.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: VP Baltar
This one has made the unfortunate mistake of turning off his oven.
I believe they have access to the recipe book and are listing ingredients that we are trying to figure out.

I believe this part of the thread should show that I'm not mafia with baltar(and also shows spew of shea being town off baltar)

yes mafia never come into games attacking their buddy ur right.

[Thestatusquo]

welp I'm going to just go ahead and assume that sky DID in fact JK GB.

:/

[Thestatusquo]

Unless mafia has like a multitasking roleblocker I guess.

But thats a paranoia for a later day that hopefully I won't be around for.

[Thestatusquo]

given my thoughts about the gamestate day 1 I think the last scum is ali.

[Thestatusquo]

VPBs push on Ali was SO bad. I was too focused on trying to stop the sheep lim at the time to really dig into it but it doesn't make sense at all.

I could see that being +town points or +scum points for ali.

[Thestatusquo]

Unless mafia has like a

multitasking roleblocker

I guess.

But thats a paranoia for a later day that hopefully I won't be around for.

multitasking roleblocker is a towny role plz

there's more irony here but I'll save it for later.

[Thestatusquo]

Unless mafia has like a

multitasking roleblocker

I guess.

But thats a paranoia for a later day that hopefully I won't be around for.

multitasking roleblocker is a towny role plz

there's more irony here but I'll save it for later.

It was a joke as you know I was that exact role in TM

I know. I am saying there is a deeper layer to the joke that I don't want to share right now.

[Thestatusquo]

xof is so hard to read, because I've never seen them be scum.

this game matches my town xof meta pretty perfectly but I don't know what scum xof looks like in 2023 the year of our lord.

[Thestatusquo]

ali does kinda make a good amount of sense since given the lack of follow through on balts' pivot to garlic

i do think baltris is unlikely, despite my epic Mental Neighborhood Theory
theres really not a lot of reason to disbelieve the tris claim
also again i think tris would have made the kill in this case
honestly i think its exceptionally possible that balts didnt make the kill but his partner hit the tris vest and balts reaction was angy bc of the unlucky faux-guilty

idk about xof and shea's respective balts equities i will leave it as an exercise for the reader

happy birthday ausuka : )

Why can't this be true claiming and also scum?

[Thestatusquo]

Tris

[Thestatusquo]

Shocking.

[Thestatusquo]

xof is so hard to read, because I've never seen them be scum.

this game matches my town xof meta pretty perfectly but I don't know what scum xof looks like in 2023 the year of our lord.

Nobody does. Wish I could help you with that, but mods seem to be adverse to handing me scum role PMs, dunno why that is.

While I'm happy we hit scum, I'm a little sad Baltar went out the way he did. I've got some thinking to do about this game, though that will have to wait until evening. But the pile of Ali/tris needs some attention.

I would like some thoughts when you get a chance, by the way.

[Thestatusquo]

Well I'm not going to be here for the next like 5 days really because I'm doing survivor meet so I'll have to trust garlic bread to do the needful.

[Thestatusquo]

I am at survivor meet and it is lovely. That is all.

it is extremely alignment indicative.

[Thestatusquo]

being willing to vote for me is cringe.

[Thestatusquo]

Game is incredibly scuffed.

I'm still extreme v/la. Still think alisae is by far the most likely to flip red.