Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[sheepsaysmeep]

god I still think it's aisa but I think I'd rather defer to implosion for this than trust myself lol

[implosion]

Aisa, what's your reasoning on ceph-town? I still do think he's town but still feel the need to second-guess on him.

[Cephrir]

I hadn't verbalized that until after your own post. I still would like to know why you thought so in 1707.

Because I think I look like his partner

[Dunnstral]

Nice.

[Aureal]

Aureal let's talk about Ceph, I'm pretty sure he's town

Sure. Why's he town? I've not had him as better than null and these conversations with him have him coming off very oddly nitpicky.

Really made sure the day ended there by parking on fire for most of the day and then mind controlling merlyn

VOTE: aureal

You were parked on fire for most of the day? This all started because fire said you were "the one to actually take action and start campaigning for alternate wagons" remember? That doesn't seem to match up well with your description of your day. Why are you not seeming to take issue with the inaccurate way fire describes your action but nitpicking mine, other than obvious reason that fire's inaccuracy makes you look better?

fire's original wording was

person a) [Cephrir] was a part of tvt wagons and then actively worked to try to move away from them and dismantle the locked position towards the rest of the game

which is compatible with what Ceph was doing (pushing skitter, then parked on fire, then asked about starting a 3rd wagon, then decided to sheep Merlyn which resulted in him voting skitter)

I don't really see how that's compatible, but if you do I'll let it go. Saying "hey Merlyn what do you think about starting new wagons on one of these people" without even so much as moving off a main wagon yourself seems pretty

in

active and

not

working to me.

As far as massclaim, I've rather come around to the 'just lim fire' position. I really dislike how fire just vanished once I started pushing back at him, and has only decided to talk about implosion (a consensus townread) since then. It feels like scum realizing they could end up making me look too unpartnered if they keep engaging with me.

VOTE: fireisredsir

[sheepsaysmeep]

that part about fire just feels blatantly untrue? I think he had a respectable sequence of posts that was much more effort than ive been able to muster

[sheepsaysmeep]

ok theres less there than I thought for some reason

[sheepsaysmeep]

im less sold by him than I'd hope I would be by his solving sequence

but when I think about how I'd expect him to re-evaluate the whole game today I think he did that for a bit; he went through a number of slots and talked about them reasonably, after your pushback

"only decided to talk about implosion" is just warped

[sheepsaysmeep]

Aureal what’s your egix read

[sheepsaysmeep]

Also if fire flipped wolf I would consider almost nothing he did today in terms of spew. I think he was so likely to die today that he’d definitely be careful with his approach and it’s all WIFOM, so I don’t agree a ton with ur point there eh

[Umlaut]

Menalque will no longer be replaced and will keep his slot.

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 3.3

Sports were banned in Scarfolk (see

Discovering Scarfolk

page 41 for further details). However, a legal loophole permitted the playing of ancient games, as long as they were an integral part of a religious ritual.

Mayan football and other sacrifice-based Mesoamerican ballgames, which often employed human heads or skulls instead of balls, became all the rage. Not only were these early games fun and exciting, but they also gave citizens the opportunity to use up any surplus of tourists that had become ensnared in traps during the summer season.

“Gaol!” weekly was the number-one selling football publication at the time and each issue included a pull-out poster of a hat or toupee once worn by the longest serving ‘headballs’, the most popular of which was Mr. Kenneth Trampel of Ramsgate, Kent, who was a veteran of 22 games until his left ear fell off.

---

fireisredsir (3):

Menalque, implosion, Aureal

Aisa (1):

sheepsaysmeep

Egix96 (1):

Dunnstral

Aureal (1):

Cephrir

Dunnstral (1):

Egix96

Not voting (2):

fireisredsir, Aisa

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to launch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-06-24 17:55:00)

Notes:

• Cephrir is on V/LA through Tuesday 5/20.

[Menalque]

Yo

Sorry Friday was unexpectedly busy and then the weekend was expectedly so

Just to give context: I go back to the Uk for summer work next week so atm everything is a bit of a hectic mess between getting ready for leaving while tying up end of academic year stuff

[Menalque]

I’ve only skimmed lightly for now in terms of catchup but I think we should definitely be massclaiming today regardless to lock people into claims

[Aisa]

[...]

Really made sure the day ended there by parking on fire for most of the day and then mind controlling merlyn

VOTE: aureal

You were parked on fire for most of the day? This all started because fire said you were "the one to actually take action and start campaigning for alternate wagons" remember? That doesn't seem to match up well with your description of your day. Why are you not seeming to take issue with the inaccurate way fire describes your action but nitpicking mine, other than obvious reason that fire's inaccuracy makes you look better?

fire's original wording was

person a) [Cephrir] was a part of tvt wagons and then actively worked to try to move away from them and dismantle the locked position towards the rest of the game

which is compatible with what Ceph was doing (pushing skitter, then parked on fire, then asked about starting a 3rd wagon, then decided to sheep Merlyn which resulted in him voting skitter)

I don't really see how that's compatible, but if you do I'll let it go. Saying "hey Merlyn what do you think about starting new wagons on one of these people" without even so much as moving off a main wagon yourself seems pretty

in

active and

not

working to me.

As far as massclaim, I've rather come around to the 'just lim fire' position. I really dislike how fire just vanished once I started pushing back at him, and has only decided to talk about implosion (a consensus townread) since then. It feels like scum realizing they could end up making me look too unpartnered if they keep engaging with me.

VOTE: fireisredsir

It's not about Cephrir sheeping Merlyn (which I agree can't be considered "actively" campaigning for a different wagon), but about this post:

Spoiler:

ok so aureal's two latest ISO dives on sheep and skitter both left me kinda... unsatisfied. they're both just i think way too much summary for my taste, and not enough analysis of what that means for the alignment, or sort of grasping onto overall meanings or motivations beyond just "i like this" and "i don't like this". with both i was kind of left thinking, whats your point?

but, i figured, ive never played with aureal before tho so maybe this is just her style. so i went and looked through a bunch of aureal isos from previous town games to see if this is just how she tries to sort people later in the game

and i really don't think it is

most games didn't have anything like this. the analysis was a lot more clear, most of her time was spent engaging with people and picking at specific points and explaining why she had a specific read on them, etc

there were a couple ISO dives that were explicitly summaries of interactions, but rarely were they done as like, a way to make content

the closest thing i found (across like 8 games) was this post:

Spoiler: from another game

Subject: Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!

A few thoughts from some browsing of AV's ISO.

Pretty sure AV is NOT scum with Ranger because of 239 and is probably just town (the opening about Aisa reads pretty towny, are scum going to talk about how they want to read someone, doesn't seem so likely). I just can't see any reason why scum would make an argument directed to their scumbuddy only to have the scumbuddy misintepret it, forcing the original questioner to have to clarify and ask again. Ranger does not look as good for the misinterpretation, though. The original question in 181 and called out to Ranger again in 209 seems pretty clear and yet Ranger somehow digs up 45 and uses it in her response which clearly is not what AV is talking about- he literally quotes the 'freaking out' in 181; and if Ranger only saw 209's question it says Arko putting Oc at e-2 was "earlier in the thread" than the freaking out and 45 clearly is not earlier than the vote in 54.

It's also seeming less likely from this that Oc/Enchant is scum with Arko/Drew, as Oc was the one who triggered Arko's e-2 shenanigans. I could see this sequence as Arko starting to break down under early pressure, then coming back the next day to see feedback in the scum PT that his OMGUS stuff was bad and he unvotes.

I'm thinking Bella is town, though I haven't dug deeper on her yet. Vander/Ranger/Arko makes sense as a team to me. Arko gets pressured early but also seems to have decent support so Ranger defends in over-the-top fashion, trying to get Vander towncred for a heaven vote by bussing Ranger and then hopefully people think Ranger was white-knighting townArko so he has a heaven shot later? The heaven voting is maybe a little weird if so but I think makes enough sense... Drew puts Vander at h-1 and Ranger doesn't hammer, but that could be because obviously Ranger shouldn't want Vander there and maybe Ranger's slot is salvageable once we see Vander was scum, but not if Ranger hammers. It seemed reasonable to wait and figure Bella or I would be amenable to voting Vander. But AV switches to Aisa, Drew votes Aisa to see if that'll get AV back, Ranger obviously can't do anything but vote Aisa, then Bella brings out her Aisa read and Enchant loves hammers.

I'm moving towards voting Ranger but we've got time and she's got stuff to deal with. And I'll keep doing more poking around.

but even this i think has a ton more analysis to it than the two we've seen this game. it references specific posts to make the points, but it's explaining an overall narrative and overall conclusions

i kinda think that stuff like aureal has done here comes when scum aren't really sure how to produce meaningful content and so they just pull up an iso and start summarizing what they see, because it looks long and has lots of links and people think "oh they efforted they're probably town"

maybe i missed a time when this was done? aureal if you have any in mind feel free to point me to them

Also i actually think sheep looks worse here than fire

what if we killed sheep or aureal instead UNVOTE:

I think a lot of why fire is looking town is because he’s just been active since joining and I think that’s a very bad metric for solving him

I don’t think he’s done anything really clearing and I think that his entrance was concerning enough to be killable + somehow everyone is forgetting that neither delta nor alianna did a good job of showing the slot was town

cephrirage farm remembers

I guess it's not a lot, but Ceph is not a very high volume poster and you're rarely gonna see him screaming and yelling for a specific course of action. When I first saw the post I remember it made an impression because I was also panicking about who to eliminate.

More in general why do you think Ceph not taking issue with fire's description of his actions is a problem? I wouldn't expect most players to go out of their way to correct townreads on them most of the time.

More in next post!

[Aisa]

Aisa, what's your reasoning on ceph-town? I still do think he's town but still feel the need to second-guess on him.

Aureal let's talk about Ceph, I'm pretty sure he's town

Sure. Why's he town? I've not had him as better than null and these conversations with him have him coming off very oddly nitpicky.

Mainly meta: to me he feels different from this scumgame of his. He initially fooled me, but looking back on the completed game I feel like I can trace a lot of his posts to a fairly simple agenda. He kinda tries to project this confidence in his ideas / scumreads and appears quick to reach conclusions like "this doesn't make sense". He's quite direct about pushing the slots he wants to eliminate. He talks more about others than about himself, and when he talks about his own thought process, he keeps it simple and short.

He feels different here. I've had this feeling for a while but here are a few recent examples:

Spoiler:

after reviewing a recent csf scum game to see if my paradigm for reading her is still valid, it wasn't as valid as i thought, but i still see differences between that and this. still townreading, not as strong

want to look at sheep/woo/dunn/aisa eventually

not interested in menalque

skimmed sheep iso to figure out why i was townreading him earlier. still not sure

i liked his one post about aisa and the fact he's not shoving me in a null bin or worse (i have to imagine scum salivating over mislimming me later here)

that's it tho

Here is a dump of some posts where he shows some of his thought process. He seems a bit hedgier than in the previous game I linked?

Spoiler:

You didn't start the day off by calling skitter scum for voting you and suddenly pop in to end the day hammering her?

This isn't what your post says, and no I did not suddenly pop in I made it perfectly clear I was letting merlyn use my vote.

Who was pushing skitter before you?

And there's nothing "perfectly clear" about why you hammered. It felt pretty out of the blue to me at the time, and going back and reading your posts there still doesn't much change that impression. You didn't commit to anything with your vote, you halfheartedly pondered voting with Merlyn in a way that wouldn't raise objections if you didn't do so. Like you possibly could if she'd voted where you didn't want to vote.

There is a difference between "started the push on skitter" and "was the first person pushing skitter"

No one cares about my skitter push and it was fully irrelevant by the time a second completely unrelated push occurred

You can call things halfhearted with no citation if you want I guess

@merlyn thoughts on switching to sheep or aureal? i might just vote whatever you want right now bc i think you're town and i am so checked out

Huge skitter pusher cephrir, everyone

Really made sure the day ended there by parking on fire for most of the day and then mind controlling merlyn

VOTE: aureal

He has a simple self-assurance here that seems unlikely to be forced to me. I also like that he's been able to explain his trajectory yesterday more generally; this makes me feel like there is actual depth to his reads. I can follow his thought process.

Spoiler:

The fact that there is absolutely no impetus toward limming fire today after what happened yesterday makes me want to revise my stance and agree with skitter/menalque that there is some weird unnatural resistance to limming fire right now. fire is the natural lim; there's been like semi-consensus on fire's slot being scum like twice and nothing happened either time + skitter as she was dying kept saying we need to look at fire (she also said she thought sheep looked even worse than fire but still).

Like dunn/ceph, why are you not voting fire now given you were on the wagon yesterday and it's the leading wagon here? Has something meaningfully changed?

Yeah I think yesterday was bait and scum are watching us burn

Also if fire is scum we're going to lim me next so I'm just kind of hoping he isn't

I hadn't verbalized that until after your own post. I still would like to know why you thought so in 1707.

Because I think I look like his partner

I like the fact he considers both the fire town and fire scum cases; this tells me he's not directly setting up a specific narrative. You could argue that he's fire's partner doing some strange reverse psychology gambit to hopefully make him look unpartnered when fire flips, but... this feels a bit gimmicky?

Somebody please scream at me if I'm fundamentally misinterpreting Ceph's meta and he can in fact do all these things as scum

[Aisa]

The fact that there is absolutely no impetus toward limming fire today after what happened yesterday makes me want to revise my stance and agree with skitter/menalque that there is some weird unnatural resistance to limming fire right now. fire is the natural lim; there's been like semi-consensus on fire's slot being scum like twice and nothing happened either time + skitter as she was dying kept saying we need to look at fire (she also said she thought sheep looked even worse than fire but still).

Like dunn/ceph, why are you not voting fire now given you were on the wagon yesterday and it's the leading wagon here? Has something meaningfully changed?

When I first saw this post I was going to scream bloody murder at this interpretation of the gamestate but I actually don't hate the two people this question is applied to

[Aisa]

Something feels weird about Aureal vs Cephrir, from a skim exactly 0 players who are not called Aureal or Cephrir seem to have used it as a reason to scumread either Aureal or Cephrir and I wonder why that is.

[Aisa]

Uughhhh *gestures at everything* this game

[Aisa]

I looked at CSF’s ISO again and hmmm that does *not* feel like a scumslot rn

[Aisa]

Mmmm my brain is a dolphin doing all sorts of backflips rn.
What if it’s exactly Ceph + Dunn + fire? Someone please reassure me I’m not crazy and I’ve definitely got the game completely solved :3

[sheepsaysmeep]

ok I guess aisa is town

[Aisa]

Someone please reassure me I’m not crazy and I’ve definitely got the game completely solved :3

Someone? Anyone. Cmon. How is this not an attractive proposition?

I think for a while I was at
{implosion, Cephrir, Aureal}
{Menalque, sheep, Egix, fireisredsir, Dunn}

but Egixslot is actually definitely a townslot at least until I change my mind again and it's a stronger read than Ceph. If I swap those I get
{implosion, Egix, Aureal}
{Cephrir, Menalque, sheep, fireisredsir, Dunn}

and I think this also gives me more scumteam options I find compelling to play with

[sheepsaysmeep]

Mmmm my brain is a dolphin doing all sorts of backflips rn.
What if it’s exactly Ceph + Dunn + fire? Someone please reassure me I’m not crazy and I’ve definitely got the game completely solved :3

I thought this at some point but 1 of the 2 teams dunn is proposing is egix/ceph/fire and I dont think he would tmi a 2/3 accurate team

[sheepsaysmeep]

Mmmm my brain is a dolphin doing all sorts of backflips rn.
What if it’s exactly Ceph + Dunn + fire? Someone please reassure me I’m not crazy and I’ve definitely got the game completely solved :3

I thought this at some point but 1 of the 2 teams dunn is proposing is egix/ceph/fire and I dont think he would tmi a 2/3 accurate team

ur welcome