Open 879: Fire and More Fire [game over]

[Bingle]

Your argument presumes the other scumteam thinks I’m town, which is kinda fucking silly.

It also presumes that I don’t like to leave people I can tunnel alive to, yknow, tunnel on them. Like Cakez.

I had absolutely no traction on a Meuh lim, and was actually fairly widely suspected throughout D1.

Your narrative has no similarity to what actual happened.

[Bingle]

Like, you’re arguing that I would shoot someone who wasn’t a threat while ignoring people who were threats and was at worst a convenient place to push as a show of solving in order to claim that I would clearly not do the thing that is a bad idea.

So either I think it’s a bad idea to shoot Meuh there and am desperate enough for towncred to make that kill despite thinking it’s a stupid kill to make, or I don’t think it’s a stupid kill to make and yet come into the thread and try to fake thinking it’s a stupid kill to make for towncred while bragging about having shot myself in the foot.

The mental Olympics involved in this narrative are just wow, man.

[Merlyn]

BRUH HE LITERALLY SHOT MEUH AND THEN BRAGGED ABOUT IT

wait so are you saying that Bingle made an oopsie by kablamming his purported scumread that was secretly a townread and then he decided to be a big mean evil jerk and laugh about it in the thread or what

I mean, Pooky is not wrong that I enjoy bragging about insane shit I've pulled off. But his narrative here is that I'm literally bragging about shooting myself in the foot. Other things I don't tend to do: hitting my genitalia with hammers and putting my arms in woodchippers.

I don't know or need know about your kinks Bingle but this is actually a good point. Like, brag about messing up?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the whole point is to claim he didnt do it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Like, you’re arguing that I would shoot someone who wasn’t a threat while ignoring people who were threats and was at worst a convenient place to push as a show of solving in order to claim that I would clearly not do the thing that is a bad idea.

So either I think it’s a bad idea to shoot Meuh there and am desperate enough for towncred to make that kill despite thinking it’s a stupid kill to make, or I don’t think it’s a stupid kill to make and yet come into the thread and try to fake thinking it’s a stupid kill to make for towncred while bragging about having shot myself in the foot.

The mental Olympics involved in this narrative are just wow, man.

ok who would scum you have shot then?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Your argument presumes the other scumteam thinks I’m town, which is kinda fucking silly.

It also presumes that I don’t like to leave people I can tunnel alive to, yknow, tunnel on them. Like Cakez.

I had absolutely no traction on a Meuh lim, and was actually fairly widely suspected throughout D1.

Your narrative has no similarity to what actual happened.

so you think the scum team thought you were scum and decided to shoot the person you were pushing because?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also um isnt this just making my point that you were widely suspected d1 and needed something to change that?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

The more I think about 1925 and 1926, the more convinced I am in my original hypothesis that Bingle is just scum here.

Let me tell you why.


- The goal of these responses is to

discredit

my push against Bingle.

He's not trying to

figure out

whether this push from me is coming from Town!Pooky or geniune thoughts that Pooky actually thinks - he's not trying to divine what my motivations are or whether I actually believe this push. He's not trying to solve for my alignment - which really is the most important thing when dealing with a push.

You might say, well he doesn't need to ! he's convinced you're scum already Pooky! this is just a shitpush from scum!pooky.

Well think about it, even putting aside how stupid it would be for me to be doing this kind of kamikaze shitpush - let's say he really does believe that I'm Mafia and this is a shitpush - why does he need to discredit me? Simply agree to 1 for 1 and be done with it. If me/bingle are both going to flip, then in the world where I am mafia and Bingle is town, he wins 100% of the time. He doesn't NEED to discredit my argument, the flips will speak for themselves.

The reason he's going this route is because he knows that EVEN if Pooky gets flipped today - he can't let Pooky flip without bludgeoning Pooky's push on him because Pooky's push becomes only more real when Pooky flips town - so it's not enough for scum!Bingle to misflip Pooky - he has to first convince Pooky!Town that his argument is not good or bad here. Which is a hell of a different thing from just misflipping Pooky.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Also:

VOTE: meowth

I think Bingle is probably the best person at mech on the entire site and he enjoys solving mech optimal play for town regardless of his alignment. [as in he will literally as scum point out the best way for town to play optimally

I have given up on reading him because I've been basically wrong on him every time I have ever remembered reading him.

also now that I think about this response to me where he points out the part where I said "I've misread Bingle every time I've tried"

This is entirely incongruent with a game state where he thinks I'm mafia - because mafia don't need to make reads. He's trying to sow doubt on my read because he knows I'm

town

[Invisibility]

BRUH HE LITERALLY SHOT MEUH AND THEN BRAGGED ABOUT IT

wait so are you saying that Bingle made an oopsie by kablamming his purported scumread that was secretly a townread and then he decided to be a big mean evil jerk and laugh about it in the thread or what

think about it

lets say there are 2 mafia alive and niether of them is bingle.

they see bingle tunneling meuh.

why not simply leave meuh alive so bingle keeps tunneling/pushing her?

if meuh gets flipped by bingle, its one less person they have to get rid of and also makes bingle weaker on towncred and easier to push later.

shooting meuh in fact gurantees bingle(town) would be looking for a scum other than meuh since meuh is dead. why would a scum team do this?

why waste a shot on meuh when bingle is pushing her?

the easiest answer is because bingle is scum so these calculations were never made by such a hypothetical scum team. bingle shot meuh in order to make the argument that he wouldnt shoot meuh hence he is town which is kind of a bullshit line of reasoning anyway.

yeah this could've hypothetically happened but c'mon. I don't think it's more likely than like just Bingle being happy about being right or whatever.

[Invisibility]

this is silly

VOTE: Drew

[Bingle]

Also:

VOTE: meowth

I think Bingle is probably the best person at mech on the entire site and he enjoys solving mech optimal play for town regardless of his alignment. [as in he will literally as scum point out the best way for town to play optimally

I have given up on reading him because I've been basically wrong on him every time I have ever remembered reading him.

also now that I think about this response to me where he points out the part where I said "I've misread Bingle every time I've tried"

This is entirely incongruent with a game state where he thinks I'm mafia - because mafia don't need to make reads. He's trying to sow doubt on my read because he knows I'm

town

Exactly the opposite, in fact. That’s what makes this a scum push. You know, and have demonstrated recently as town, that you’re for shit at reading me. When confronted with that, instead of actually reading or reevaluating, you’re doubling down on what should be a low confidence read. When presented with evidence contradictory to your narrative, you straight up ignore it (rat pointing out that what you’re accusing me of instigating as a scum tactic being your own slot’s last contribution to the thread met with idc, for example) and you’re doubling down on “I’m fine being eliminated” when you, me, and probably sheep’s grandma can all tell those are empty NAI words. Of course you won’t just lay down and take the lim tomorrow if you’re town who manages to mislim me. Because just laying down and taking the lim would be playing antiwincon. Kinda like you’re not actually looking to be the lim here today.

[Bingle]

Lunch break is almost over, but pooky doesn’t trust a read based on evidence he’s been told is wrong on a player he knows he isn’t good at reading in a game that he literally hasn’t read most of enough to actually wager the game on it.

And I almost certainly would have shot vizzy. Possibly fire. There were strong reasons not to shoot most other people and the whole point of the night one scumkill is to avoid hitting scum.

[Firebringer]

Why would u shoot vizzy

[Firebringer]

i think pooky is town but i don't really know how i feel about his bingle case or this back and forth between the two.

[Firebringer]

theres like 14 hours left in this day and i am having hard time caring

[Invisibility]

I think Pooky is town who is being silly

[sheepsaysmeep]

I think invis is towny

[sheepsaysmeep]

bingle Merlyn drew is what I would vote today I guess

[sheepsaysmeep]

ausuka could be mafia but she is townier and I am pocketed

[Ausuka]

oh shit

[Doctor Drew]

oh shit

Scum claim?

[Ausuka]

mm

VOTE: bingle

sorry if this is wrong! i would understand being annoyed by this, although bingle didn't really seem like he cares about the game that much more than i do right now. i do have a very hard time efforting right now especially cos most of the game is in the same boat as me and if pooky is like caring about the game and confident and willing to bop himself i'm down for it. I also don't really feel bad about the idea of boping pooky for this because that's umlaut slot and bingle also said pooky was scum sooo whatever

if i have to give a reason, the 'bragging rights' line from bingle rubbed me the wrong way. it's fine to argue that pooky wouldn't let himself get bop'd, whatever, but the line at first is that if pooky is going to lose he's going to push bingle for bragging rights - which is like, if you push for a bop, get someone limmed, and lose the game for your partner, is that really a bragging rights moment? - and then kind of seamlessly pivots to the more sensible sounding argument even though I don't really think the two is that capable. It would make the most sense if this was bingle's reaction to pooky catching him off guard?

pedit: yes

[Bingle]

if i have to give a reason, the 'bragging rights' line from bingle rubbed me the wrong way.

In hindsight, 'bragging rights' is probably the wrong way to say it. My last game with Pooky was election, where, despite the fact that he jokingly called me a cheeky scumfuck in a PT once despite hardtownreading me pretty much all game in spite of his own insecurity in reading me and was shot because he was a threat to Alisae, who is notable for complex setups and not being named Bingle. I 100% believe that scum pooky comes in with a desire to get me limmed specifically. Call it ego, but it just makes sense to me.

[Datisi]

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