Mini Theme 2312| Blood on the Clocktower: Sects & Violets | Village are Doomed!

[Infinity 324]

hi i need to read

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i read and still have no idea what people are talking about

what does nominating do

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the order of the playerlist is hidden? ok ig

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oh nvm

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the "you win when there are only 2 players alive" in the minion and demon role pms is very confusing to me, isn't the wincon just the demon survives until endgame? and why doesn't the game end when there are 2 town/2 scum? do the minion and demon not know each other?

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oh it says they know each other. but yeah still confused

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sigh ok

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If Demon created this way, deaths this night are arbitrary.

??

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Townsfolk abilities yield false info.

i assume this means the investigatives would get random results?

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If you kill Minion this way, they keep ability and one of closest Townsfolk to them in playerlist will be Poisoned.

this seems like not something scum would want to do yeah?

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the false results makes sense, for the pit-hag...why

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it's probably not something they want to do then i guess, maybe creating a vortox could be useful just...enchant might decide that they lose the game. lol

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presumably the minion in this case

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You might if they have a lot of heat on them. Remember, dead players can still talk, so it might be worth it to a Demon to sacrifice Minion's ability to 1. get the heat off them (since now they seem good since they were demon killed) and 2. get this consolation prize.

my interpretation of the ability is that is that you basically get a permanent roleblock instead of a nightkill, in which case why not just kill the townie? your scenario makes some sense, but i don't see how they're sacrificing the minion's ability

pedit: ahh

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i was thinking they could turn someone into vortox, but giving town a vig seems bad, evil twin could make sense though? idk how that would work

pedit: ? do they normally have multiple votes

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i mean yeah it still generally seems better to kill them though

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if you wanted to no kill anyway it could be nice

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oh so the pit hag minion still dies but keeps the ability? wild

if the vortox results are random (which is what i thought you were saying) then you still just get to disable town investigatives which is useful

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i feel like we should start talking about reads and stuff

Oh, wait, there is only one minion in the game. I don't know why I keep thinking there is 2. Nothing I said is WRONG but certainly "Minions know all other Minions" is...superfluous.

I'll buy this as a genuine dumbtell

i maybe disagree but i think it's towny to point this out

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got it

pedit: i disagree!

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VOTE: anix

people tend to be under the illusion that the threat of elimination generates reads but in basically every game many reads are generated when there is no threat of elimination

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This one would genuinely love to be corrected if you think there's stuff to be found in the mechtalk

i already gave 2 reads!

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I also townslipped in 50 do you think that was fake

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What does it mean by the Demon learns 3 Townsfolk which are not in the game?

Interesting: no flips upon death.

Also, do the Minion and the Demon know each other?

this leans town imo

scum you better start faking townslips

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What does it mean by the Demon learns 3 Townsfolk which are not in the game?

Interesting: no flips upon death.

Also, do the Minion and the Demon know each other?

this leans town imo

scum you better start faking townslips

What do you mean?

i think you probably genuinely didn't know those 2 things that scum would know, making you town. given that multiple people have townslipped, I joked that the scum should probably fake a townslip so they can look town too.

Vander, I get it, but also I'm pretty lost about the mech and my questions have gotten me to understand a lot more about how the game works, idk how much the scum benefit from it

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i agree with the erinys scumread

i have decent vibes from Hu Tao

we have more than enough content to start reading people off >_>

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I like Nurse for attempting to make stuff happen, and Anix.
I dislike infinity and Erinys.

is this just because I was asking questions about scum play, or is there another reason

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i'm surprised people don't think scum would fakeclaim in a game with no flips; regardless, nurse was a super strong townread of mine so i'm happy limming anix.

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random gut reads: atsi scum, erinys town, piggy town

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why is swapping alignments so bad for town? the person who was previously a demon can claim, so we know what happened right? and yeah they get poisoned, but if you're not going to use your ability anyway that doesn't seem like a big deal.

this is a strange claim to make as scum, but it's also strange as town, so.

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Well, once the Demon reveals himself, I have a different wincon and I wouldn't want that to happen.

so? i don't get what you're saying here, if you're just playing to the town wincon while you have a town role, swapping alignments isn't a disaster and the risk seems well well worth it. if you're playing to try to win the game, which is probably what i would do, it's even less bad to swap alignments because you're just playing a normal game as scum with town down 1 pr.

if we're agreeing to lim anix here, we can try to maximize flowergirl and town crier. though i'm not sure if you can actually vote without nominating? that would make things more complicated

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If you think I am actually the Snake Charmer, we should still be killing me.

why?

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so we should probably have 2 more people vote and 3 more people nominate, ideally split between the voters and nonvoters yeah?

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having to open up the limpool to people we've previously cleared based on mech does seem pretty bad yeah

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mm yeah maybe we could have people we consider scummy nominate? not sure who that is even

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If you think I am actually the Snake Charmer, we should still be killing me.

why?

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how would we know who the current demon is

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oh you're saying now that anix claimed. yeah wait wouldn't we want to leave anix alive then? though maybe that's part of the gambit idk especially if the demon is someone who fucks with roles

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how would we know who the current demon is

Because it would obviously be Anix since they already claimed snake charmer. So if they swap with the demon then Anix is the demon.

but before anix claimed we wouldn't know, which is what anix was talking about

now i'm wondering why it's not correct to claim snake charmer at the start of the game under that mindset? i think you have to play to winning the game not just your current wincon cause yeah

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i guess i'm just not sure what you think anix's out would be if not sounding ok with dying.

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well the point is, while you're the snake charmer you're town, so you want town to win even if you flip alignments and end up losing. i think that was anix's mindset?

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i guess i'm just not sure what you think anix's out would be if not sounding ok with dying.

Probably claiming something other than snake charmer

what claim would actually help anix here

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nominate:vanderscamp

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i kinda want more people to nominate because of town crier but if you're worried about witch that's ok ig

pedit: you have to vote to end the day

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Hu tao is no dashii

Hu tao is vigor mortis

Hu tao is fang gu

Hu tao is cerenovus

Hu tao is pit hag

VOTE: end day

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I am a little baffled why people want to end the day early when there's still nominations and discussions to have? I get that we can talk during night too, but I don't think ending day early should be such a rush.

i tend to agree with this, but no one is actually talking and i don't know how to get the game moving, so

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i'm oracle, looks like anix was the minion barring nonsense

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HPE should probably claim.

Fun fact my ass literally doesn't have a choice. This one is Klutz and it is now everyone's problem. Let's get down to business.

Do you have to pick an alive player?
If you don't, Anix is conf town from my POV and soon to be everyone's POV unless infinity wants to deny being a twin.

I already claimed lol

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can there be 2 of the same role?

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couldn't the mod have told you the truth about anix being evil?

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oh nvm

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Infinity isn't even claiming to be the good twin, which seems very strange.

I assumed #320 was them acknowledging it but who knows

I already claimed Oracle lol

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VOTE: vanderscamp

i'm assuming we can't have 2 of the same role

this oracle claim is very strange but I guess they just missed my claim

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Infinity refusing to counter-claim Twin is super-interesting. Infinity, if you are the other Twin, for God's sake claim. We need to kill one of you or Vander to win. I know it may seem like a Good town play to not counter-claim. It is not. Every Twin game where the Good Twin doesn't claim I have seen is a game where town loses.

I am not the twin. I already claimed Oracle. what is so confusing about this

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ohh good twin isn't a role. ok well I'm not the twin

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I'm still not sure exactly why vanderscamp claimed, but I would like to make it clear that there does not have to be a vortox here if vanderscamp is scum

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vanderscamp is doing a gambit. I guess the reason to gambit is that from town's pov, there's less risk to killing me than killing vander, because if they are town and we kill them town loses, whereas if you kill me the game keeps going. it's also an advantage to get the idea in people's heads that there's a vortox, which means that town can't trust their results. this claim also gives more credibility to anix.

what I would ask even if you elim me here is that you don't let vander just coast to endgame. since them being town requires there being a vortox, you might as well investigate them or whatever and see if that info is consistent at least.

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wait if you lim me and the game doesn't end isn't vander confirmed lying? i assume the evil twin info isn't affected by vortox

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oh right the twin is a minion.

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hpe should pick random imo

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if there does have to be a vortox, that means anix is town then right? i don't see why that's not the world we live in

i do think I have to be limmed today cause of Occam's razor, which is a bit frustrating because there's no way to know for sure that vander is lying, but I don't see what else we can do

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@random nurse I'm pretty sure barring extreme circumstances anix has to be town

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hu tao still hasn't claimed

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see 391

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ok let's try to figure this out. I know Vander is scum and I'm pretty sure it's confirmed that there's a vortox. anix and random are confirmed town, and erinys is town barring a strange gambit.

that leaves:
atsi
hu tao
piggy

as the other scum. atsi being scum here would be strange, because it's only based on his info that we know there's a vortox. i think I like Hu Tao for the last scum (they played kinda similar in a mech heavy theme game as scum recently), but idk.

is there a way to figure out who's more likely to be the demon and who's the minion? I wanna say vander is the more likely demon because the twin claim protects him, but idk.

lmk if I got this wrong @anix/atsi

[Infinity 324]

Seems like Vortox would make sense then, if we're confirmed to have an evil twin? I got 1 correct from:

Infinity324 is No Dashii
Infinity324 is Vigormortis
Hu Tao is No Dashii
AniX is Snake Charmer
Random Nurse is Artist

Which if we have a Vortox, means it could be anything

but

only 1 correct, right? So either there's none correct, or more probably that both Ani and Nurse were telling the truth?

looks like anix snake charmer and nurse artist were correct, so we don't get much from this.

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I think we always vote in infinity and Vander today it's 50/50.

It seems kinda risky since if we ml Vanderscamp we just lose, and if we ml Infinity we end up in an F4 with both minion and demon and we just auto-lose if Vanderscamp is the demon.

oh wait how do we win an f4 with 2 scum

[Infinity 324]

if we eliminate the demon we win

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This is actually a pretty exciting way to confirm me as real, if we kill the demon and get mech info that it was correct, infinity becomes outed

i'm more sure that vander is the demon atp but sure

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hu tao claim

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lol vander said hu tao claimed to them in the pt

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lol vander said hu tao claimed to them in the pt

I think you're thinking of atsi

oh too bad

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very helpful to know that the conftown did not pass the vibecheck

do you have info?

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VOTE: hu tao

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I'm ok with going outside the 50/50, but vander is likely to be the demon if scum.

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of course not

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I'm ok with going outside the 50/50, but vander is likely to be the demon if scum.

This should not be an if from your pov

So isn't this a slip from him? :lol: that's why I was confused why he said if

this is a very silly argument i was talking to someone who does not know vander is scum

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VOTE: piggygal compromise

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i feel like fypov it should be even better to not vote in the 1v1

like idk I think atsi is town, if you agree that just leaves piggy as the last possible scum

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u scum piggy?

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I agree atsi is probably town. It was between the 3 of you for the other 2

right but the theory that me and vander are both scum is exceedingly silly

u scum piggy?

I think it was a scum claim voting nurse

what why would they scumclaim

tbh i do think you're being towny here so probably they're scum

idk y'all are just gonna have to realize it's vander at some point

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like say i'm the demon and vander is the minion. town is like "ok cool so infinity is scum" and lims me. we lose. it's a very silly plan. maybe if vander is the demon it's slightly better but idk

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if this is a demon there's no more nks so y'all can just lim me and vander and win right?

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gdi i keep forgetting how this game works

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yes

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not really sure how it's so insane i would forget the wincon when it's different from every other mafia game i've played and there's a bunch of other possibilities i have to consider because they could be true from y'all's pov

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Even if we hit demon we still have to deal with a 50/50 ughhhhhhh

Yes, but I'd argue it's a pretty weighted 50/50!

? if we hit the demon and the game doesn't end i am confscum

(obviously this will not happen because i am town. apparently i have to clarify this)

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what the fuck

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I got a 1

i thought scum had to kill

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Each night except first, must choose a player. They will die.

this is what is says in all the demon role pms

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>_>

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what if we lim me and the dead people use their votes to elim vander? unless y'all think I no kill gambited

@random yes it's a clear guilty

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vander is scum and lying

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what is it with y'all and refusing to see that I'm speaking from a neutral perspective

vander is claiming good twin. the purpose of my statement was to make clear that vander could not have received wrong information, and that therefore from y'all's perspective either I am scum or Vander is scum.

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what if we lim me and the dead people use their votes to elim vander? unless y'all think I no kill gambited

thoughts?

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I think the fact that there was no kill last night should be borderline clearing for me because if I'm evil, it gains town a kill, but it doesn't necessarily with me being real.

clearly you thought it would indicate we found the demon, so you no kill gambited to frame me

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Oh boy. I have a juicy savant today.

1. There is four Townsfolk alive.
2. Atsi and Random Nurse are not aligned

this is only possible if it's me/vander right?

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oh they could be both true but i think hu tao has to be lying fmpov

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wait why can't it still be piggy/vander? if both savant statements are true then isn't that still false info?

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i kinda feel like it's likelier for vander not to bus, which brings up some hu tao demon worlds, but i think it's more likely to be vander

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why? if there's a vortox, 2 true statements is false info because it's not 1 true and 1 false statement.

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i'm now second guessing vander being demon because i think they tried to confirm that we got the demon, which means they're confirmed lying once i get limmed

why is hu tao town atsi?

VOTE: vander

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i guess? it's just strange because it depends on the wording of the savant results pm, if it explicitly states "one of the following is true and the other is false" then it seems totally allowable to give 2 true statements if vortox is in play

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@enchant

if there's a vortox in play, could a savant receive 2 true statements?

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"One of the following is true and the other is false: [true statement] and [true statement]"

how is that not false info

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idk how this even benefits me if i'm evil, if piggygal is in fact scum there's even more reason for y'all to lim me because that gives us an extra lim

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the "1" in the result i got last night is not a false statement. the false statement is "1 dead player is evil". to me information is what you derive from the results of your role, not necessarily the results themselves.

also uh i just realized piggy can't be scum anyway

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if i said "the following may or may not be true: i am holding a green pen" there's no information there. you didn't learn anything. it's only information if i say or imply that the statement is true/false

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I just disagree with that interpretation but that's fine

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I just disagree with that interpretation but that's fine

It's not my decision and that's how it works in original.

ok sure, the wording is unclear then, but we can talk more about it postgame

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I have no clue why you're still arguing that I could be scum for having a different interpretation of the english language from you, at the very least it seems inarguable that savant results are "false info" in a very different way from ex my oracle result

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So does anyone have a problem with the "vote Infinity today, Vanderscamp tomorrow" plan? I think from everyone's pov the only way we lose with that plan is if Hu Tao is the demon and Vanderscamp is a minion other than Evil Twin.

i mean, i'm getting limmed today, but i would consider limming hu tao tomorrow. like i don't get why vander no kills as the demon here when we're likely just going to lim him tomorrow. it's more likely he no kills if he's confident he can win tomorrow (i.e. if hu tao is the demon), which is still strange, but it does make a bit more sense.

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um yes how are you not confirmed scum from that

VOTE: hu tao

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oh i guess it could be me/vander lol

can we lim hu tao

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nope you can kill a dead player

but yeah from y'alls pov it could still be piggy vortox

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@enchant

i did not vote to end the day

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realistically though, hu tao is not going to bus, so there's no way anyone except me is being executed even if random nurse votes vander

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it would be kinda interesting to force hu tao to make that choice, but from an objective perspective it doesn't make much sense.

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@erinys what are you thinking about who is the demon vs minion assuming i'm town

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@erinys what are you thinking about who is the demon vs minion assuming i'm town

Feel like it's gotta be VS and HT at this point?? This one has overall kinda weird vibes from VS but it only has the one vote so uh, yea, not happening right now.

yeah i just want to know who you think is more likely to be the demon between those two

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ooh i think i get it, y'all don't know i'm town even if i'm dead

hu tao becomes confirmed scum, so i think vander is the demon and they were hoping y'all would lim hu tao hoping they're the demon

yeah i think i want to lim vander tomorrow

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wait how, it's 2 town/2 scum then and we get another chance to hit scum

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@erinys what are you thinking about who is the demon vs minion assuming i'm town

Feel like it's gotta be VS and HT at this point?? This one has overall kinda weird vibes from VS but it only has the one vote so uh, yea, not happening right now.

Uh. How am I scum if no one died?

you're about to be confirmed scum since no one else could be scum with me/vander

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wait how, it's 2 town/2 scum then and we get another chance to hit scum

still don't get why scum would tie the vote

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ah ok

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VOTE: infinity
VOTE: end day

no real way for anyone else to get limmed here so might as well

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what the fuck

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i checked my role pm multiple times when Vander claimed

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im sorry y'all I can't believe I did that

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i don't even understand how it's possible to miss the red font so many times

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i think this game could use a warning for how complex it is haha. i probably would've also appreciated being explicit about when mod discretion can be used and what should be expected from the mod in those situations, as well as maybe some rules interactions (like the vortox/savant thing that was unintuitive to me but idk about others)

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yeah that's true