NKA: Enchant is an odd kill here. His only votes were on Kyouko and the hammer on Cobb, and his only real interaction of the day was with Gamma, who I'm not sure he was even scumreading. Two possibilities immediately present themselves to me, one being that he was simply killed for being a low-info, low associative kill. The other is that Enchant quickhammering after Cobb claimed Follower might've made the last scum think he was a PR. The former scenario is what worries me, since it implies a deep-wolf I think.
I think imaginaility has to be town here, I don't think scum replaces in to immediately start swinging at their partner, especially since it was his vote that really restarted the Cobb wagon and imaginality never really offered an alternative wagon other than Puff. That kind of bussing on D1, especially when we had like 3 days left in the deadline at that point, in a 2-scum setup? Doesn't seem likely to me.
Two main suspects for today are Puff and Gamma. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Cobb wagon was all town and the Enchant push at the end of the day from Gamma smells bad to me, and Puff has looked null to scummy all game so far.
I think I'll start here for today:
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
I have played with Enchant a fair amount, do you think I would have been unaware of his playstyle, or that I just opted to disadvantage myself?
<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”
From my point of view as town roleblocker, there's a 1/3 chance of the remaining scum being a 1 shot juggernaut. And I figured if you're a mafia juggernaut then last night seemed when you'd likely use that shot given you were under suspicion. So roleblocking you could've been a waste compared to roleblocking someone who didn't expect to be roleblocked.
As for why Elements specifically, my townread on Elements was based mainly on the vibes of how they discussed their entrance. Seemed like something I could be wrong on so I wanted to rule out the chance of them sneaking under my radar.
"holy shit this entire time i thought imaginalitys profile was a purple seahorse" - camelCasedSnivy
If this is a true claim why did you roleblock Elements and not me? On day 1 you had me as scum and you had Elements as town.
- A
Also since these are hypoclaims I don't think we should ask questions like this - these are not necessarily real claims and should not be questioned as though they are real until a hard claim is made in the future
NKA: Enchant is an odd kill here. His only votes were on Kyouko and the hammer on Cobb, and his only real interaction of the day was with Gamma, who I'm not sure he was even scumreading. Two possibilities immediately present themselves to me, one being that he was simply killed for being a low-info, low associative kill. The other is that Enchant quickhammering after Cobb claimed Follower might've made the last scum think he was a PR. The former scenario is what worries me, since it implies a deep-wolf I think.
I think imaginaility has to be town here, I don't think scum replaces in to immediately start swinging at their partner, especially since it was his vote that really restarted the Cobb wagon and imaginality never really offered an alternative wagon other than Puff. That kind of bussing on D1, especially when we had like 3 days left in the deadline at that point, in a 2-scum setup? Doesn't seem likely to me.
Two main suspects for today are Puff and Gamma. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Cobb wagon was all town and the Enchant push at the end of the day from Gamma smells bad to me, and Puff has looked null to scummy all game so far.
I think I'll start here for today:
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
I have played with Enchant a fair amount, do you think I would have been unaware of his playstyle, or that I just opted to disadvantage myself?
Not sure what you're trying to say here, are you saying you don't make the Enchant kill here because his playstyle would benefit you as scum?
In post 206, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
Because it's lazy and that feels more like town than scum. The alternative is that you're scum scrambling desperately to push Gamma for {arbitrary reasons} and I don't think that makes sense in the gamestate unless the scumteam is exactly {Cobbler, Elements}, and even then that's a stretch because in that case there are still like 3 low-activity slots that could be pressured to divert attention from Cobbler instead.
Guess I need to metadive Elements to see if her post about Gamma is something she would do as town but I tell ya it's not looking good
In post 369, Puffalicious wrote:
I still stand by on what I said about imagi. After seeing Cobb's flip, imagi linking us to Cobb looked like he was setting up a miselim after flipping his buddy. His vote on Cobb I could see it as a bus. Cobb was already getting suspected in the thread when imagi replaced in and of course scum would want to look good after their scum buddy gets flipped. When you play or spectate a lot of mafia games, you start to recognize reading games based on what you expect scum to do in certain situations. What imagi did by linking me to Cobb when there has been no scum flip it's always only scum who do this and town doesn't do this.
Enchant's hammer also pinged me because Cobb claimed a pr and it did look like Enchant was scum who knows Cobb is scum. I'm glad mafia killed Enchant because it removed a heavy suspected poe slot for me.
Hypoclaim: I do not have a hard guilty
VOTE: imaginality
I don't really buy this explanation because your idea of imagi's strategy simply doesn't ring as sound. Imagi hard-busses his partner, immediately setting the game to 6:1, meaning he has to survive 3 days to win, against Town PR's, and then tries to set you up as a chain lim on D2, which would immediately bring the suspicion back to him? If that were his plan, then it seems incredibly short-sighted.
And town absolutely tries to look for associatives even when 1 party hasn't flipped yet. Town has lost many a game because they were looking for full teams rather than individual scum. Saying "only scum" or "only town" do a certain thing in dayplay is practically always an incorrect statement.
I wasn't sure if imagi was true claiming or not. If he was claiming I thought he wanted to clear a slot. In my head I was also thinking a town pr who is not getting wagoned shouldn't claim like that because it exposes them to scum and in past games I have seen players would claim town pr for no reason.
In post 367, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
I don't have a hard guilty - does anyone have a hard guilty before we move to hypoclaims?
These are the possible hypoclaims for 2/4/8/10, where the letters are variables like targets or actions:
2 (Tracker): X went nowhere, X visited Y, (X visited Y and Z is a hard guilty)
4 (Follower): X did nothing, X Jailkept, X Tracked, (X shot/killed is a hard guilty)
8 (Roleblocker): I roleblocked X
10 (Rolecop): X is vanilla, X is a doctor, X is a Roleblocker, (X is a rolecop is a hard guilty)
As a reminder, if you are on 1/5/7/11, you should make up a claim on 2/4/8/10. If you want to you can try to "sneak" your actual claim into the hypoclaim.
For example a Vanilla Cop who got a Vanilla result could claim to be a Rolecop that got a Vanilla result.
A jailkeeper could claim to have roleblocked their target.
Doctors and Babysitters can claim anything, just try not to out yourself.
This is the explanation for why/what we are doing then by the way.
If he was claiming I thought he wanted to clear a slot. In my head I was also thinking a town pr who is not getting wagoned shouldn't claim like that because it exposes them to scum and in past games I have seen players would claim town pr for no reason.
- A
I mean, I literally said "hypoclaim" in the very sentence I claimed my action, so this is ??
For the avoidance of confusion: my explanation is the truth of "how I chose my target" if my hypoclaim is true and I am a roleblocker, and the truth of "how I would have chosen my target if I were a roleblocker" if I'm not actually one.
I agree with kyouko that expecting everyone to justify hypoclaims in detail is probably a bad idea (and could be driven by scum wanting to see which of the claims is true). However I do think people should hypoclaim targets they might plausibly have targeted (or else again, it might be easier for scum to figure out which ones are false).
"holy shit this entire time i thought imaginalitys profile was a purple seahorse" - camelCasedSnivy
In post 178, Thomith wrote:
When rereading I just realised something I did not notice before.
I fully only thought there were like 2 or 3 of us questioning Puff about post 30, but on a reread it seems like it was over half the playerlist in the entire game that was questioning the slot (Me, Gamma Emerald, Cobblerfone, Elements, Mizuki, Kyouko) either directly on post 30, or on other things after it became clear that the Puff slot had gained a lot of attention. That definitely gives me vibes that Puff could very feasibly just be Town, and there was at least one Mafia jumping on that seemingly easy train of thought/suspicion.
Again this also makes me more tempted to read Elements as Town currently, as it did look like they were trying to avoid this happening, at least to me.
I can agree with Puff being town since it seems like they had a genuine intent to get the game moving in a way that very much seemed agenda-agnostic and I do like this train of thought. I went back through the ISO's of the players you mentioned (except myself) and my brain really only produces Cobb as an answer for Maf.
IDK, I feel like too many people seem townie at the moment, sort of inclined to believe that Maf is in one of the V/LA's (Cele, Shaddowez). I guess Gamma hasn't really pinged me one way or the other but I always find her hard to read.
NKA: Enchant is an odd kill here. His only votes were on Kyouko and the hammer on Cobb, and his only real interaction of the day was with Gamma, who I'm not sure he was even scumreading. Two possibilities immediately present themselves to me, one being that he was simply killed for being a low-info, low associative kill. The other is that Enchant quickhammering after Cobb claimed Follower might've made the last scum think he was a PR. The former scenario is what worries me, since it implies a deep-wolf I think.
I think imaginaility has to be town here, I don't think scum replaces in to immediately start swinging at their partner, especially since it was his vote that really restarted the Cobb wagon and imaginality never really offered an alternative wagon other than Puff. That kind of bussing on D1, especially when we had like 3 days left in the deadline at that point, in a 2-scum setup? Doesn't seem likely to me.
Two main suspects for today are Puff and Gamma. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Cobb wagon was all town and the Enchant push at the end of the day from Gamma smells bad to me, and Puff has looked null to scummy all game so far.
I think I'll start here for today:
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
You seem to be inconsistent on these 2 quotes above. On the first quote you agreed with Thomith on my slot being town saying it looked like to you we had genuine intent to get the game moving in a way that seemed agenda-agnostic and in the second quote you said we have looked null to scummy all game so far.
If we have been null to scummy all game then why did you agree with Thomith on my slot being town?
In post 392, Mizuki wrote:
A combination of re-reading the game during night phase, cannibalizing other people's reads, and associatives from the Cobb flip.
It makes it hard for me to buy what you're saying and your inconsistency was very pingy. Progressions are very important and you did not show progression on your read on us. It would have looked alot more believable if you said something along the lines of, "I had a town read on Puff from last day but now my town read on them is starting to drop." After seeing the Cobbs flip, I put you as town on my reads list I made in the hydra chat and now that I saw your recent post I became paranoid of you.
What does cannibalizing other peoples reads mean?
My response to your other post is on the first paragraph this is what I believe and I became worried that town would never look into the set up of a miselim because scum can get away from doing it. Where I come from town hardly ever does it and they have individual reads instead.
In post 392, Mizuki wrote:
A combination of re-reading the game during night phase, cannibalizing other people's reads, and associatives from the Cobb flip.
It makes it hard for me to buy what you're saying and your inconsistency was very pingy. Progressions are very important and you did not show progression on your read on us. It would have looked alot more believable if you said something along the lines of, "I had a town read on Puff from last day but now my town read on them is starting to drop." After seeing the Cobbs flip, I put you as town on my reads list I made in the hydra chat and now that I saw your recent post I became paranoid of you.
What does cannibalizing other peoples reads mean?
My response to your other post is on the first paragraph this is what I believe and I became worried that town would never look into the set up of a miselim because scum can get away from doing it. Where I come from town hardly ever does it and they have individual reads instead.
- A
I very rarely have good progressions. I play very much "in the moment", so to speak, which can make me seem inconsistent. Are you also suspect of Kyouko here? She stated a "firm town" read on Elements in 254 and now 384 looks to be Kyouko now scumreading Elements.
When I say "cannibalizing" I'm basically just sheeping other people's reads. As I said I trust Imagi for right now, and you were suspected rather early in the day.
How many games have you played on MS (talking to Adorable specifically)? I can show you a few games where town lost because they were looking for a team rather than an individual scum-read. I've won scumgames off of that.
In post 392, Mizuki wrote:
A combination of re-reading the game during night phase, cannibalizing other people's reads, and associatives from the Cobb flip.
It makes it hard for me to buy what you're saying and your inconsistency was very pingy. Progressions are very important and you did not show progression on your read on us. It would have looked alot more believable if you said something along the lines of, "I had a town read on Puff from last day but now my town read on them is starting to drop." After seeing the Cobbs flip, I put you as town on my reads list I made in the hydra chat and now that I saw your recent post I became paranoid of you.
What does cannibalizing other peoples reads mean?
My response to your other post is on the first paragraph this is what I believe and I became worried that town would never look into the set up of a miselim because scum can get away from doing it. Where I come from town hardly ever does it and they have individual reads instead.
- A
I very rarely have good progressions. I play very much "in the moment", so to speak, which can make me seem inconsistent. Are you also suspect of Kyouko here? She stated a "firm town" read on Elements in 254 and now 384 looks to be Kyouko now scumreading Elements.
When I say "cannibalizing" I'm basically just sheeping other people's reads. As I said I trust Imagi for right now, and you were suspected rather early in the day.
How many games have you played on MS (talking to Adorable specifically)? I can show you a few games where town lost because they were looking for a team rather than an individual scum-read. I've won scumgames off of that.
Kyouko's post on #384 did not make me suspect her. Cobb said like around 2 or 3 times they have a strong town read on Kyouko and after seeing their flip it made me think they tmied Kyouko town.
You accused my slot of cannabilizing and so are you saying I have been sheeping? Where have I been sheeping because it doesn't feel like I have been sheeping. You said you trust imagi and was it just his catch up you liked? Is there anything else you like about imagi?
I've only played alike around 12-15 games here. I don't know if you are misunderstanding me or not. You said you can show me a few games where town lost for looking for a team rather than individual scum read and my read on imagi was mainly his catch up post from day 1 how it looked like he paired me and cobb as a team when there has been no scum flip at that time and after seeing Cobb's flip I still suspected imagi and on day 2 I became worried he was setting up a day 2 miselim. Are you saying I am looking for team rather than individual scum read?
In post 392, Mizuki wrote:
A combination of re-reading the game during night phase, cannibalizing other people's reads, and associatives from the Cobb flip.
It makes it hard for me to buy what you're saying and your inconsistency was very pingy. Progressions are very important and you did not show progression on your read on us. It would have looked alot more believable if you said something along the lines of, "I had a town read on Puff from last day but now my town read on them is starting to drop." After seeing the Cobbs flip, I put you as town on my reads list I made in the hydra chat and now that I saw your recent post I became paranoid of you.
What does cannibalizing other peoples reads mean?
My response to your other post is on the first paragraph this is what I believe and I became worried that town would never look into the set up of a miselim because scum can get away from doing it. Where I come from town hardly ever does it and they have individual reads instead.
- A
I very rarely have good progressions. I play very much "in the moment", so to speak, which can make me seem inconsistent. Are you also suspect of Kyouko here? She stated a "firm town" read on Elements in 254 and now 384 looks to be Kyouko now scumreading Elements.
When I say "cannibalizing" I'm basically just sheeping other people's reads. As I said I trust Imagi for right now, and you were suspected rather early in the day.
How many games have you played on MS (talking to Adorable specifically)? I can show you a few games where town lost because they were looking for a team rather than an individual scum-read. I've won scumgames off of that.
Kyouko's post on #384 did not make me suspect her. Cobb said like around 2 or 3 times they have a strong town read on Kyouko and after seeing their flip it made me think they tmied Kyouko town.
You accused my slot of cannabilizing and so are you saying I have been sheeping? Where have I been sheeping because it doesn't feel like I have been sheeping. You said you trust imagi and was it just his catch up you liked? Is there anything else you like about imagi?
I've only played alike around 12-15 games here. I don't know if you are misunderstanding me or not. You said you can show me a few games where town lost for looking for a team rather than individual scum read and my read on imagi was mainly his catch up post from day 1 how it looked like he paired me and cobb as a team when there has been no scum flip at that time and after seeing Cobb's flip I still suspected imagi and on day 2 I became worried he was setting up a day 2 miselim. Are you saying I am looking for team rather than individual scum read?
- A
I'd like to suggest you may be tunelled on imaginality here. I understand the reasoning behind your point but to me, it would feel like it would be absolutely crazy to get your partner eliminated on Day 1, just to secure a mislim on Day 2.
In post 392, Mizuki wrote:
A combination of re-reading the game during night phase, cannibalizing other people's reads, and associatives from the Cobb flip.
It makes it hard for me to buy what you're saying and your inconsistency was very pingy. Progressions are very important and you did not show progression on your read on us. It would have looked alot more believable if you said something along the lines of, "I had a town read on Puff from last day but now my town read on them is starting to drop." After seeing the Cobbs flip, I put you as town on my reads list I made in the hydra chat and now that I saw your recent post I became paranoid of you.
What does cannibalizing other peoples reads mean?
My response to your other post is on the first paragraph this is what I believe and I became worried that town would never look into the set up of a miselim because scum can get away from doing it. Where I come from town hardly ever does it and they have individual reads instead.
- A
I very rarely have good progressions. I play very much "in the moment", so to speak, which can make me seem inconsistent. Are you also suspect of Kyouko here? She stated a "firm town" read on Elements in 254 and now 384 looks to be Kyouko now scumreading Elements.
When I say "cannibalizing" I'm basically just sheeping other people's reads. As I said I trust Imagi for right now, and you were suspected rather early in the day.
How many games have you played on MS (talking to Adorable specifically)? I can show you a few games where town lost because they were looking for a team rather than an individual scum-read. I've won scumgames off of that.
Kyouko's post on #384 did not make me suspect her. Cobb said like around 2 or 3 times they have a strong town read on Kyouko and after seeing their flip it made me think they tmied Kyouko town.
You accused my slot of cannabilizing and so are you saying I have been sheeping? Where have I been sheeping because it doesn't feel like I have been sheeping. You said you trust imagi and was it just his catch up you liked? Is there anything else you like about imagi?
I've only played alike around 12-15 games here. I don't know if you are misunderstanding me or not. You said you can show me a few games where town lost for looking for a team rather than individual scum read and my read on imagi was mainly his catch up post from day 1 how it looked like he paired me and cobb as a team when there has been no scum flip at that time and after seeing Cobb's flip I still suspected imagi and on day 2 I became worried he was setting up a day 2 miselim. Are you saying I am looking for team rather than individual scum read?
- A
I think we're both misunderstanding each other, I'm saying
I
was the one sheeping other people's reads, not that you were, and that's whats led me to my suspicion on you. I trust Imagi for the reasons I said in 385, I don't think the associatives or the theoretical scum strategy here are realistic.
I was asking if you suspected Kyouko because your reasons for suspecting me also feel like they should apply to her flipping from townreading Elements to now scumreading Elements on D2.
I'm saying that I Imagi pairing you and Cobb with no flip is NAI, since Town is just as likely to try to make associative reads before 1 party has even flipped. That's why I keep bringing up games where Town has lost looking for teams rather than individual scum.
