Open 899 - The Pizza Kids Coalition [Game Over]

[gob]

I actually dont really rhink its Dragon here. Mainly from his tone. I am pranoid worried that im clearing the obv-wolf like I did with Black in a past game.

Im not gonna do all this work on my own. If you want my reads to be more accurate then you can help me out by keeping an eye on Dragon since he has entered a realm i am unable to read for the time being. Just a weird spot.

[gob]

I will say this also. Ive basically skimmed all of fires post.
i absolutely refuse to read them more closely because
1. think theyre wolfing and don’t want to get caught up in that narrative. The kyoko slot was already really likely to be wolf based on how the votes went btw. Before fire even repped in
2. Too long. its boring af and feels like a waste of time.

[Appearance]

catching up again.

[gob]

catching up again.

Im town and if you are town then believe all my posts without any second thought.

[implosion]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Appearance

implosion, is there a point in time where you expect Appearance to be less inscrutable to you?

Not really. I'd ultimately be happy with a lim on him for that reason since he's in the coalition and I like 3 of the people in the coalition

I am side eyeing you pretty hard for your push on me. Something about it doesn't feel like the way you play as town. You seem way too confident to be calling things out with little information to go on.

I don't mean to come off as confident, I'm not particularly confident that you're scum. It's pretty typical for me to be confident in townreads though by now

I don't think you ever answered this.

Thought i said this but I guess I didn't, your entrance doesn't "have to be" impressive for you to be town, that's a weirdly absolutist question to ask when I'm not claiming to be absolutely sure you're scum. I said your entrance was "not exactly impressive" which is shorthand for you haven't done anything to assuage my feelings on Ydrasse.

What implosion posts in 783 here is super vague and you can say this about pretty much anyone. I don't think implosion is super vague as town like this so this feels off to me. Also I want to note that I copy paste what implosion writes and make it about them to try to showcase this and Klick responds super seriously but without much explanation. My belief here is that Klick did not even read implosion's post above and did not realize I was posting the same thing as implosion, and this not reading of posts strikes me as more likely to come from mafia (regardless of implosion's alignment really)

I think I think i've been being clearer than I have been to some degree. I was specific in the mini wallpost on ydrasse but I haven't really explained what from that I was referring to or how my thoughts have developed but basically I came away from ISOing her with mixed feelings; I figured she'd likely be more readable over time and I had a sense of how I'd want to read her over time and that like mid next day or sometime like that I'd have a better sense of her based on how her engagement develops, how she tries to work with other people, etc. Then she repped out and it recontextualized her ISO to me as this thing where everything she has done feels eminently in her scumrange and she no longer will ever post things that are out of it, and you came in and did largely nothing in a gamestate that I think town is probably doing sorta poorly in and it just feels congruent with how scum would enter this particular game.

I also disagree with the point on Klick, I think missing entire posts is something that e.g. i'm probably more likely to do as town than as scum because as scum I'm deeply afraid of being misinterpreted or getting things wrong whereas when i'm town I know it's okay to just post things because I can always fall back on actually being town. Obviously it's not as simple as that but I don't think it's a meaningful scumtell particularly when I think reading your post without mine it looked like it was probably referencing something because there was no context

[gob]

Wolf has been caught judging by the dead gamestate

[Prism]

DeasVail has been prodded. He has 24 hours to post before I begin searching for a replacement.

[fireisredsir]

can someone who has played with gob explain why this is town gob behavior

[fireisredsir]

i read a couple games and it looks to me like he just makes stuff up and throws it at the wall as either alignment and its hard for me to see a difference

[fireisredsir]

what makes you most confident on dragon being town? it read to me like you were fairly confident fairly early on in the game

@klick did you ignore this on purpose

[fireisredsir]

ive been reading dragon meta and i have some thoughts but its somewhat difficult to summon the courage to make a post on it

it would be helpful to me to have someone to talk to about the game here but it feels like people aren't really in the mood for that. im not sure if it's the suspicion that was on my slot or if it's the gamestate itself or what

[fireisredsir]

i am kind of nervous because the last time i replaced into a pretty heavily suspected slot, i believed that one of the stronger players in the game was scum, cased and pushed them, and then was wrong. and i don't enjoy when that happens. we did win eventually but it was a pretty uphill battle and im not sure if it was worth it, town might have been better off if they just limmed me right away to get people out of their tunnels

oh and also the main person who was like willing to talk and engage with me about things and get me into the game was scum trying to pocket me lol

so idk maybe town are naturally more hesitant due to lack of information and i should take it as a good sign that it doesn't feel like that's happening here

[fireisredsir]

I'm also kind of hoping Klick or like, maybe DV or kyouko (if they're town) will find me as town at some point because they're the only slots that it feels appealing to work with right now and I feel like i need help to make headway right now

hey. same. me too

come talk about ydra/dunn and appearance with me

correct me if im wrong but the vibe i am kind of getting from you is that you are like "okay i feel like i know how to read these people (klick/dragon/kyo). and they seem town. and i don't really know how to read these people (ydra/appearance) confidently. so they're probably scum"

and like i get the appeal of that conceptually but idk it feels a little complacent. maybe you have stronger reasons for those slots being scum and i missed them

i guess i would just like to know more where your head is at in a broader, like, "how we should be approaching this gamestate" sense, which was something that i remember feeling was present from you in scarfolk

[fireisredsir]

i guess it was also present at the start of elimination phase, i found those posts again and i remember thinking they were towny. but still

[DeasVail]

ive been reading dragon meta and i have some thoughts but its somewhat difficult to summon the courage to make a post on it

it would be helpful to me to have someone to talk to about the game here but it feels like people aren't really in the mood for that. im not sure if it's the suspicion that was on my slot or if it's the gamestate itself or what

I think it's the gamestate.

Even though I suspected your slot (and still do to a small extent), it's not something that is super present on my mind.

I think, for me, Appearance is still the preferred vote.

[fireisredsir]

you said earlier you think appearance fits most with what you expect from scumplay, can you explain what you mean by that?

[DragonEater70]

fire, I haven't read your last page posts yet, will try to get to them before sleep overcomes me.

A question though:

If I interpret 922 correctly, you think I have some posts that are really scummy and some other posts that are really towny? Is that correct?

I'm sorry because I KNOW this is inevitably somewhat busywork-ish, but I would really like to break down which posts are like super scummy and which ones are super towny with post links and a short explanation, 2-3 sentences on why they are scummy or towny. Doesn't have to be all of them but just the main ones.

Idk if it'll change my read of you or not, but if you ARE town then it

might

help me believe that you have a real thought process and are not just saying things. Actually it might also help me believe that if you are scum so idk.

[DragonEater70]

The word "you" is missing in the penultimate paragraph.

[fireisredsir]

i do think that is pretty busy-work-y and something that i could do really easily as scum so idk how it would be helpful but sure i can

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Dunnstral

His entrance is not exactly impressive and I feel like Ydrasse was scum. I feel like the aspects of her posting that people were saying she'd have trouble faking as scum are actually things she definitely can fake over the course of her being in this game

T3 yfrasse seem good. implo will need to go some point soon. maybr dunn too

Do you realize Dunn replaced Ydrasse?

Can you eoaborate what made you feel ydra was scum? I agree Dunn's entrance wasn't impressive but I did like some of his other posts.

[DragonEater70]

i do think that is pretty busy-work-y and something that i could do really easily as scum so idk how it would be helpful but sure i can

I mean, idk

Part of me wants to just lim you and hopes you flip scum, but another part of me says "don't be an idiot, put some more effort into the game if you wanna win it", and right now this is the level of effort I'm capable of. Because yes I am actually demotivated ever since that coalition failed, idk if you noticed.

[T3]

can someone who has played with gob explain why this is town gob behavior

It comes from both town and scum gob

[T3]

I want to see where gob goes with this go

[fireisredsir]

Spoiler: overly long answer to homework assignment from dragon

there's a lot of little posts that ping me a small amount but i tried to mostly leave those out and stick to the things that have majorly influenced my read. i also would add that my read on dragon is like, unusually polarized, in that there are a lot of things that i read as scummy and things i read as towny. i think with most other slots in the game (and also in most other games) there's a lot less that stands out to me as feeling AI. that unusualness here is why i originally made the comment about dragon having some of the scummiest posts and some of the towniest posts

i also would gladly welcome any thoughts from others who read this (except gob who i expect has not even made it this far into the post, let alone further) to let me know if they agree/disagree/see something differently/think i am tunneling/think i am dumb/whatever, thanks

Spoiler: mediumly scummy things

- 46 and 47 are some of the scummier rvs posts imo, because it feels like you are aware that you are overexplaining your thought process here and so you self-consciously post again about your eloquence 5 minutes after. it's hard for me to see a motivation for the first beyond "trying to get townread", which is something some town players do, but what makes it suspect to me is the follow-up. i wouldn't think you'd be worried about explaining away your wordiness as town

- 52 reads as made in very bad faith to me, almost feels too scummy to be scum. healing 3 people in the first 2 pages = working the most to form a coalition is just... really hard to believe that's a real thing you think. if you're town i guess this was probably done to provoke reactions and generate content, but claiming that playstyle makes it really easy to do anything as scum

- 164 i talked about this before and ive gone back and forth on how i feel about it. i have similar issues to how i feel about 80 (which will be below this for organization although i typed it earlier), where it seems like you care more about looking like you want to solve than about actually pushing the game into that state yourself (it's also kind of ignoring the fact that this is an inherently unique townhunting setup, and coalition kinda just always feels that way). i originally put this in the mediumly towny section bc last time i read it i came away from it with that read, but the more i think about it the more i don't like it. it's really overwrought, i don't think town should have that much trouble with a townhunting gamestate in a townhunting setup, and so it feels like you are imitating what you think a townie should be feeling more than expressing something real (see 189). it's out of sync with what your actual behavior in the game is, so it's hard for me to see it as a consistent mindset. doubling that up with the fact that we're now in a phase where you can actually push people and eliminate them but you're less engaged again makes it feel like the original concern wasn't stemming from a real place. the frustration does feel fairly real, so if you're scum you're likely channeling some actual feelings of finding it difficult to do the things you want to do in that gamestate.

- 243 isn't actually scummy in isolation aside from some mild self-consciousness, but i wanted to point it out since there's an inconsistency here compared to how you handled my read on you, which you said came from scum because i was doing exactly what you're saying here (even though i wasn't really, a lot of the posts that i did point out were the origin points of my read). i think town can be hypocritical, but it does make it a little harder for me to believe that reason for your read on me was made in good faith

- 799 feels bad faith. we lim in the coalition and you know that so to say that you not pushing implo means you can't have powerwolf vibes is kinda ridiculous

Spoiler: mediumly towny things

- 361 this is one of those "i dont think scum would have had to do this" posts. i explored a possible world where it does make sense to me to come from scum and some more thoughts about it in 812, but i think on the whole it's a pretty towny post, and this is one where the more i think about it the townier it feels. particularly the like vibe of "ive sat too long on my solve and now im getting paranoid about it being wrong" feels town. prodding DV about it later in 422 also makes it feel like this is really a point that's active in your mind

- 387 is also pretty towny, particularly in combination with 361 because i think it makes a dragon/implosion world feel less likely. the tone feels pure

- 489 is more towny for the context than the content to me. it's hard to see a motivation for you as scum to be towncasing kyo at this specific point in the game, especially since it's a relatively sudden pivot. i think that would mostly just make it difficult for you to rescind the read later when you need to elim that slot (although you did regardless, but still)

- 709 this is a relatively run-of-the-mill but still moderately towny post, engaging with the game, balanced approach, feels like you're actually trying to solve rather than trying to look like you want to solve

Spoiler: significantly scummy things

- 80 this isn't the only post of your early interactions with klick, but it's one that stands out to me. the direct appeal of asking klick to help you push the game a certain way is really questionable to me especially because it doesn't make any sense that you would ask klick to do this given klick's playstyle. if one of you were to be involved in pushing the game that direction, it should definitely be you, and you can do it without talking about it which will diminish its usefulness. it is just a post which cares a lot more about an appeal to klick and about LOOKING like you're trying to solve than actually about solving, because there's like 3 major ways that you would have gone about this differently if you were actually trying to solve the game.

- 102 is also part of a pattern that i already talked about where you claim klick may be playing to pocket you despite that not really happening. 278 is another example where it feels like you're forcing the narrative.

- 481 again with the klick stuff, this one just feels really forced to me. it's hard to boil it down to a specific post but reading through the game and your iso it just doesn't feel like your mindset on klick tracks consistently, and posts like this one feel opportunistically placed to try to seem like you are paranoid

Spoiler: significantly towny things

- the towniest thing for me is more of an energy thing so it's sort of scattered across several posts, most of them at the end of coalition. it's that feeling of antsyness and indecision in your posts, where it feels like you don't have a clear agenda. 443, 458, 561, 564, 575, 584, 585. if you're scum a lot of this just feels... unnecessary? like it's very extra. if you're panicking about a partner being potentially included, you could have just not pushed for that earlier. the fact that it all comes at the last minute makes it feel real to me, so that's why i said that series of events is among the towniest posts in the game for me

Spoiler: the thrilling conclusion

after writing these all out and collecting my thoughts more, i think if i were like better at this game i would probably just pick whichever side of the read calls out more to my gut and run with it and ignore the alternative and appear confident and that would probably be generally more productive at getting results but im just not built like that, i think im too afraid of getting things wrong. maybe this will be helpful in some way to people who are trying to sort dragon themselves and then they can tell me what to think. that sounds nice.

[Appearance]

am busy today.
will post later.
sorry.