Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame

[Black]

#2000

[davesaz]

Doesn't that assume that there was no bussing?

[Save The Dragons]

im not arguing "the scum team is exactly ranger and tbone"

im arguing "i think there's at least 1 scum in {ranger, tbone} here is why individually i think they are scum"

[Black]

I'm not complaining about being pushed, I completely understand it but expanding on my reasoning from yesterday. Enchant and I were both Town getting pushed to a pretty substantial degree and T-Bone just did not put pressure anywhere unlike his presence in the early game.

I can push you more if that will make you feel better. This rings like a hollow complaint because I stopped pushing your slot based on how you were approaching things upon entry. You're not that same player now if that's the standard you want to set.

(I mean I'm the same but this is your argument)

I don't like how this feels like a threat. "I'll push you more if it makes you feel better" ...if you think he's scum you should push him. You shouldn't want to push him just so he'll townread you

[Black]

I'm going to go ahead and get out in front of this...but if you think I am scum then push me. Whether that's STD, Black, JV, or someone else. And I don't mean cast side eye about me possibly being scum. That's really boring. I mean do something about it, and do something about it today. Go through my ISO, make your case. I have been asking for this since Day 1. Yes, sorry, I'm going to make it difficult for you to eliminate me. But don't shy away.

I think you're scum and I'll push you if and when I feel like it, thanks

[davesaz]

im not arguing "the scum team is exactly ranger and tbone"

im arguing "i think there's at least 1 scum in {ranger, tbone} here is why individually i think they are scum"

You said a fair amount about T-Bone's early-ish play. Any thoughts on how he approached the last few pages with JV?

[Black]

Coming into today my solve was just JV/T-Bone but JV's T-Bone vote is throwing me off a little. I don't really think scum bussing here is the optimal play. I guess it could be for the towncred once T-Bone flipped scum but that would still put scum!JV in a pretty bad position imo

[humaneatingmonkey]

they have no choice, right? mason pretty much ordered a hit on them, he was E-1 immediately, and he was pretty dejected. if he was scum, there's gotta be equal chance of straight out bussing a partner who is in the same spotlight as they are (t-bone is mason's #2 hitlist, and gob's #1, plus majority agree on t-bone's elimination) or they support each other. equal chance. we can't say just because of that.

[Black]

I simply don't want to waste my breath any longer. Everything I've said has come and bit me in the ass, taken out of context or just ignored and I'm not interested in that. Most notably Drew labelling my TR on gob as pocketing, them just throwing what i said about Enchant as "this is scummy owo", you taking my words out of context yesterday multiple times and just now in that last post you saying I can't SR you because I must have had some ulterior motive to doing so like what, also in regards to you saying my surrender is scummy and you'll ignore (which is very much not ignoring as you literally said it, and from what i see you have no real plans on considering other people considering the wording in both those posts). T-Bone just pretending my read on them is unsubstantiated and based in nothing. Ranger consumed by confirmation bias enough that they've expanded upon "this would be super cool if I was right, here's twenty posts talking about it" which is just going to cement her feelings further that she was indeed right until directly proven that she isn't which would be my death. I just have very little confidence that my words will ever be heard, and that's okay I am not complaining about it as it just happens when you're scum-read to this degree but don't tell me that I should be doing something when your collective actions (not your push) is the thing dissuading me from doing so.

That being said, I don't think a single person excluding STD, wants anybody except for me for an elimination while anyone else is just a secondary choice for them. Which is crazy to think that nobody is looking at that except me but maybe that's cuz I know I'm Town, or you're all consumed by the read you just consider that wolves would just bus which is also fair I guess.

I sympathize with this post, mainly the "I just have very little confidence that my words will ever be heard". I'm having a hard time deciding if this is legit emotion or if it's scum!JV trying to make us feel bad for him. I don't really want to let JV slip through the cracks again today but I'll feel pretty bad if I'm wrong about him

[Black]

It feels like T-Bone is trying to pocket StD

[humaneatingmonkey]

if the game thinks the T-Bone > JacksonVirgo is preferrable than JacksonVirgo > T-Bone, then I welcome it!

[Black]

I don't really feel like T-Bone/JV on page 78 feels partnered

[humaneatingmonkey]

Either way, a deadset wagon with no real counterwagon feels wack. We get more information and posterity by keeping it ambiguous between T-Bone and JV. And if I can do that for my dead masons, maybe they'll greet me in afterlife with love and grace.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't really feel like T-Bone/JV on page 78 feels partnered

Would you articulate your thoughts so it's more than a feeling?

[Black]

Basically I'm operating on the assumption that the last two scum don't want to bus the other here. It doesn't feel like the optimal play. Yeah it gives the surviving scum some town cred but they would still likely be in the PoE tomorrow. I think it makes more sense for both of them to push something else, even if it's something separate


T-Bone says he's down to hammer JV in 1925. Then they get into a little argument with some sass involved. T-Bone accuses JV of misrepping him, JV then accuses T-Bone of misrepping him. JV thinks T-Bone is insulting him

I think this could be scum theatre but I think the emotions feel a bit more genuine as opposed to forced for the sake of distancing

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think I've played with JV before and remember them saying that their emotional game is good. Don't have a quote to back that up, unfortunately.

[Black]

Like if they are scum together then that's the whole point of page 78/79, to get us to think they're not partnered, but if that's the world we live in then it's working a little

[humaneatingmonkey]

Like if they are scum together then that's the whole point of page 78/79, to get us to think they're not partnered, but if that's the world we live in then it's working a little

This is where I'm operating, but also I'm not opposed to T-Bone going first than JacksonVirgo. Either way, I think both of these slots should go and will yield the most amount of good shit solve for endgame.

[Save The Dragons]

i do think if it is TBone and JV that arguing against each other is probably the play because not doing that could lead to their back-to-back lims while doing that casts some doubt onto the survivor if we lim one of them today. given what the remaining mason has posted, a lim on either of them seems most likely, and possibly inspired theatre.

@dave i haven't really parsed their argument yet but i will take a closer look

[Ranger]

It feels like T-Bone is trying to pocket StD

Must be doing a fairly poor job then given STD's never stopped pushing T-Bone throughout the game.

[Ranger]

if the game thinks the T-Bone > JacksonVirgo is preferrable than JacksonVirgo > T-Bone, then I welcome it!

Please don't.

[Black]

JV's posts are pulling at my heart strings but I also don't really want him to slip away again like he did D2

I would still prefer Jackson > T-Bone but I'm willing to switch these two around if that's what the rest would like

[Ranger]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Since you're giving him hope, let me return the L-1.

[Ranger]

One of these days players will take a look at Naerys's iso and wonder why they didn't lim Naerys much sooner.

[Save The Dragons]

One notable thing is he voted for me after being cross with me, supposedly, but I don't find it believable that he really scumread me just for calling him out as being wrong on Day 1. I believe it was an effort to invalidate my push on JV to make me look unreasonable (and if JV would flip scum, JV also went for a tactic where he would say that "he's seeing words but not getting any meaning from them").

i scumread cook for much of day 1, that never went away and was a factor in me voting for you.

i realize now that your "i don't care" attitude came from being a mason who knew would be clear one day but it came off as scummy to me as well.