Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Vivax]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

I agree but still, I won‘t do anything here until Naerys and HT can react to the situation.

Fairly unemotional about it honestly.

[Vivax]

I already said how I‘ll vote.

Do you think our odds are better if I directly vote Luca here instead of waiting ?

[Luca Blight]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies

. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

I've also defended townies, like Dann and Ninja, and intervened between a potentially disastrous OoO v Ninja duel.

You've also pushed your fair share of townies this game. The only thing you have is your bussing of Gob, who by then was a consensus scum read and was on borrowed time anyway.

[DarthPunk]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

I agree but still, I won‘t do anything here until Naerys and HT can react to the situation.

Fairly unemotional about it honestly.

I mean that is fair enough, but I also need to figure out what happens afterwards, cause I can yeet mafia here, and then I either die or am up for a misyeet next phase.

So i would really like to engage with the other parts of the game.

[DarthPunk]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies

. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

I've also defended townies, like Dann and Ninja, and intervened between a potentially disastrous OoO v Ninja duel.

You've also pushed your fair share of townies this game. The only thing you have is your bussing of Gob, who by then was a consensus scum read and was on borrowed time anyway.

Wrong, I pushed gob really early, before it was popular.

Yeah, you hard defended dann and ninja to pocket them, your pocketing of ninja was particularly egregious.

[DarthPunk]

I already said how I‘ll vote.

Do you think our odds are better if I directly vote Luca here instead of waiting ?

I don't think it matters, I would just like to talk about what happens post luca flip.

[Vivax]

I already said how I‘ll vote.

Do you think our odds are better if I directly vote Luca here instead of waiting ?

I don't think it matters, I would just like to talk about what happens post luca flip.

That largely depends on the perceptions of each other we put out into the thread.

Last scum will kill accordingly. Technically we‘re better off lying about our intentions for what happens afterwards.

[Luca Blight]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies

. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

I've also defended townies, like Dann and Ninja, and intervened between a potentially disastrous OoO v Ninja duel.

You've also pushed your fair share of townies this game. The only thing you have is your bussing of Gob, who by then was a consensus scum read and was on borrowed time anyway.

Wrong, I pushed gob really early, before it was popular.

Yeah, you hard defended dann and ninja to pocket them, your pocketing of ninja was particularly egregious.

Or perhaps it's because I genuinely townread them, and their views of the game reflected mine? I've already posted an example of me doing this from my previous game.

You were pocketing oats, and couldn't turn on him when in return he was then sheeping your every move, which is another reason why you ended up bussing Gob. You may have pushed Gob early doors, but it didn't really lead anywhere, did it? If I was scum with Gob I would have pushed him more as well, especially in a game state where I lacked scumreads.

[DarthPunk]

I already said how I‘ll vote.

Do you think our odds are better if I directly vote Luca here instead of waiting ?

I don't think it matters, I would just like to talk about what happens post luca flip.

That largely depends on the perceptions of each other we put out into the thread.

Last scum will kill accordingly. Technically we‘re better off lying about our intentions for what happens afterwards.

True.

[DarthPunk]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies

. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

I've also defended townies, like Dann and Ninja, and intervened between a potentially disastrous OoO v Ninja duel.

You've also pushed your fair share of townies this game. The only thing you have is your bussing of Gob, who by then was a consensus scum read and was on borrowed time anyway.

Wrong, I pushed gob really early, before it was popular.

Yeah, you hard defended dann and ninja to pocket them, your pocketing of ninja was particularly egregious.

Or perhaps it's because I genuinely townread them, and their views of the game reflected mine? I've already posted an example of me doing this from my previous game.

You were pocketing oats, and couldn't turn on him when in return he was then sheeping your every move, which is another reason why you ended up bussing Gob. You may have pushed Gob early doors, but it didn't really lead anywhere, did it? If I was scum with Gob I would have pushed him more as well, especially in a game state where I lacked scumreads.

I thought oats was pocketing me

I disagree, I pushed gob and got the thread to a point that force him to fake claim to survive.

[Luca Blight]

This was a good observation from Roden:

You play with a tunnel vision on slots who suspect you. First Dann, and now myself. You didn't suspect me when I wasn't getting in your way that's true, but doesn't mean much.

He was pushing both of you before either of you out and said that you thought dp was scummy??

See oats can read AND represent things accurately

Oats is town

Be like oats

This is so over-the-top pockety towards Oats

Unless you're just claiming that anyone who can read and agrees with you is town?

[DarthPunk]

This was a good observation from Roden:

You play with a tunnel vision on slots who suspect you. First Dann, and now myself. You didn't suspect me when I wasn't getting in your way that's true, but doesn't mean much.

He was pushing both of you before either of you out and said that you thought dp was scummy??

See oats can read AND represent things accurately

Oats is town

Be like oats

This is so over-the-top pockety towards Oats

Unless you're just claiming that anyone who can read and agrees with you is town?

Or we just formed a town circle, common practice on our site.

[Luca Blight]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies

. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

I've also defended townies, like Dann and Ninja, and intervened between a potentially disastrous OoO v Ninja duel.

You've also pushed your fair share of townies this game. The only thing you have is your bussing of Gob, who by then was a consensus scum read and was on borrowed time anyway.

Wrong, I pushed gob really early, before it was popular.

Yeah, you hard defended dann and ninja to pocket them, your pocketing of ninja was particularly egregious.

Or perhaps it's because I genuinely townread them, and their views of the game reflected mine? I've already posted an example of me doing this from my previous game.

You were pocketing oats, and couldn't turn on him when in return he was then sheeping your every move, which is another reason why you ended up bussing Gob. You may have pushed Gob early doors, but it didn't really lead anywhere, did it? If I was scum with Gob I would have pushed him more as well, especially in a game state where I lacked scumreads.

I thought oats was pocketing me :D

I disagree, I pushed gob and got the thread to a point that force him to fake claim to survive.

Gob fake-claimed when he wasn't even near being yeeted, so that's not true.

[DarthPunk]

Bananakin Skywalker.
Sorry I‘m just shitposting.

Not helpful.

Feel free to ask me questions or engage with me on my luca case, if you see any issues with it or whatever.

Do you still think this is a double bus?

@ Vivax

I‘ll find out when Hu and Naerys place their votes.

Game is over if they‘re scum. That‘s our current collective bet if we‘re three townies.

I wouldn't be voting unless i was 90% + sure on luca being scum.

He has been scummy all game, and he basically has done nothing at all except push townies

. Like if you take out his push on me and oats, what has he done?

I've also defended townies, like Dann and Ninja, and intervened between a potentially disastrous OoO v Ninja duel.

You've also pushed your fair share of townies this game. The only thing you have is your bussing of Gob, who by then was a consensus scum read and was on borrowed time anyway.

Wrong, I pushed gob really early, before it was popular.

Yeah, you hard defended dann and ninja to pocket them, your pocketing of ninja was particularly egregious.

Or perhaps it's because I genuinely townread them, and their views of the game reflected mine? I've already posted an example of me doing this from my previous game.

You were pocketing oats, and couldn't turn on him when in return he was then sheeping your every move, which is another reason why you ended up bussing Gob. You may have pushed Gob early doors, but it didn't really lead anywhere, did it? If I was scum with Gob I would have pushed him more as well, especially in a game state where I lacked scumreads.

I thought oats was pocketing me

I disagree, I pushed gob and got the thread to a point that force him to fake claim to survive.

Gob fake-claimed when he wasn't even near being yeeted, so that's not true.

he was exe-2

[Luca Blight]

This was a good observation from Roden:

You play with a tunnel vision on slots who suspect you. First Dann, and now myself. You didn't suspect me when I wasn't getting in your way that's true, but doesn't mean much.

He was pushing both of you before either of you out and said that you thought dp was scummy??

See oats can read AND represent things accurately

Oats is town

Be like oats

This is so over-the-top pockety towards Oats

Unless you're just claiming that anyone who can read and agrees with you is town?

Or we just formed a town circle, common practice on our site.

And yet when I form a town circle with Dann and Ninja it's pocketing?

[DarthPunk]

This was a good observation from Roden:

You play with a tunnel vision on slots who suspect you. First Dann, and now myself. You didn't suspect me when I wasn't getting in your way that's true, but doesn't mean much.

He was pushing both of you before either of you out and said that you thought dp was scummy??

See oats can read AND represent things accurately

Oats is town

Be like oats

This is so over-the-top pockety towards Oats

Unless you're just claiming that anyone who can read and agrees with you is town?

Or we just formed a town circle, common practice on our site.

And yet when I form a town circle with Dann and Ninja it's pocketing?

You did gross manipulative shit with ninja, I have addressed this previously.

[Luca Blight]

Why did I not vote to eliminate vivax yesterday when you townread vivax and scumread Grack?

You said I have convenient reads, so what was convenient about that, if I'm scum and you're town?

[DarthPunk]

Why did I not vote to eliminate vivax yesterday when you townread vivax and scumread Grack?

You said I have convenient reads, so what was convenient about that, if I'm scum and you're town?

cause you let me lead a mislim on grack, to put me in a situation where my alignment is questioned and I lose thread pull when i have to deal with you.

ALSO just wifom, you really love the wifom arguments hey?

[DarthPunk]

I am - not - going to shit up the thread arguing with you all day, so my good case gets buried in the shit, as I am sure is your intention.

[DarthPunk]

Basically my thoughts on the game are as follows.

1.) Luca is mafia. there are many reasons I believe he is mafia.

I think my case on him from early in the game still stands, he basically spent the entire game scum reading people who are suspicious of him and town reading those who are not.

Case in point his read on me this game which went from Town-> mafia when I call him out, back to Town when I back off and then Mafia again when I call him out again.

He has done the same thing with vivax and oats. When he engages in discussions or arguments he twists the truth:

Spoiler:

Ugh, its impossible to engage with you when you literally twist and lie about everything.

Here is the progression and I know you are going to have some lies about why this is not really the truth, but for everyone else THIS IS REALLY THE TRUTH.

1.) you hard agree with ninja's post. and say 'reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely' with the exception implied being the oats read

499 is brilliant - it reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely, and offers many insights that I had not yet considered. I've seen scum act far worse than oats this game (perhaps I'm desensitised to rudeness at this point) so I don't necessarily agree that he's town just for being rude, but I generally feel as though his play has been proactive and his pushes haven't lacked conviction. I need to catch up more but will review this slot again.

The read progression on Darth Punk is very natural. I really like the analysis of Dunn and the bit about trying to trap scum into being more active - that puts to rest one of the slight doubts I had after Dann's case highlighted such posts, and I read the passion behind these comments as being sincere. The analysis of Gob and Roden is spot on as well. I was pretty null on Gob before reading this post, but I'm definitely leaning scum on him now following some of the observations made here. I also resonate with the mixed reaction to Vivax - so far I have disagreed or seen flaws in much of what he has said, and yet something about his style of play makes me naturally want to townread him. I will be sure to review Vivax later as well.

Both Dann and Ninja are clear town reads at this point.

2.)Outoforder and I Discuss concerns with the basic failures of logically consistency in that exact post and raise the issue that it 'reflects your thoughts on the game almost entirely' because you have failed to identify and consider the issues in Ninja's post

- I can understand your take on Ninja / Roden, however do you think just making a big post makes her town? I mean like... it shouldnt, and i don't see any more reasoning there other than she made a big post.

Well I liked that ninja said she was trying to do something with the activity stuff in that post. I do have a soft spot for big effort posts though.

Also do you have any read on Luca Blight and/or Vivax?
As Ninja is your town read, do you think she can have that kind of confidence in her read on Luca, if you can't have a read on Luca? Why?

I liked the last post Luca made about ninja's post, other than that I don't have much thought. Vivax has been making posts that seem weird to me but I wrote it off as playstyle differences.

And sure I don't have to agree with everything someone says to think they are town. I often don't.

Of course you dont, i wouldnt hold that against you.

But like, we've expressed some concerns in Ninja's post (with DP). Like... if Ninja posts like that (makes big posts with a lot of effort) as town, i wouldnt think she would act differently as mafia. For the posters who make wall of texts, it's often small nuances that give them out -- as you can look reasonable by posting 90% truth about other players as long as your vote ends up on someone who isnt mafia.

What we were discussing was:
- Ninja placed Dann on town pile for reasons she probably shouldnt (the real reasons came after she did that)
- Ninja placed Luca in "conf town" position but the reasoning in her post didn't include what she actually said makes Luca "conf town"
- Ninja called me out for conf bias, when that "conf bias" actually meant that i shouldnt know i am town

I find these to be those kind of small nuances that

could make her mafia

. I am not sure of it, but it's definitely something to look into imo.

In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.

3.) Dunn agrees with the good point because it was.

What we were discussing was:
- Ninja placed Dann on town pile for reasons she probably shouldnt (the real reasons came after she did that)
- Ninja placed Luca in "conf town" position but the reasoning in her post didn't include what she actually said makes Luca "conf town"
- Ninja called me out for conf bias, when that "conf bias" actually meant that i shouldnt know i am town

I didn't have a problem with Ninja's read on Dann. They talk about how they missed the post and then talked about their reads after.
Looking back at 499 they do seem to point to a Luca post they liked and explain their read.
And I don't see where they talk about confirmation bias regarding you.

In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.

This is a good point.

4.) Much later Luca uses out of context snips of quotes and completely fabricates the historical narrative when ostensibly he is supposed to be 'sorting' implying an open mind.

I just Iso'd Naerys and got absolutely nothing from it.

I'm looking through Dunn's posts now (I'm not finished yet), and I really don't feel great about how he began the game, talking mainly about theory and hardly engaging with anything else. I also didn't like this:

In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.

This is a good point.

Because it wasn't a good point, in fact outoforder misread my post as I explicitly said that i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read, and I would expect Dunn, as careful as he has been in this game, to pick up on that if he was genuinely trying to read me in this situation. Especially when Dunn mentioned/implied he only comments on posts he finds worthy. He also does nothing with this - it leads nowhere, and is never mentioned or referenced again, so he couldn't have believed it was that good a point.

It was a good point though.

It can't be a good point when it's provably wrong.

5. Luca is mafia

Here is DP's case on you Luca.
In this case DP says:
- you hard agree with ninja's post. and say

'reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely'

with the exception implied being the oats read
- multiple people discuss the points Ninja made in her post, and point out there are points why the post shouldn't be agreed with, namely me, DP, Dunnstral at least
- we discuss on how it could make you mafia (before DP's case), that you

agree with the post almost entirely

, why that is possibly a scummy thing to do, because any townie should not do that
- you counter that point with

[...]"outoforder misread my post as I explicitly said that i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read"

Now this is not the point we were discussing. We were discussing entirely other parts of that post. I mean like

'reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely'

cannot really be considered ONLY as

"i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read"

. It's just simply an "over-townread" on Ninja regarding the situation without better explanation on this. It is true that you are not explicitly "lying", but you have to understand if you say

'reflects my thoughts on the game

almost entirely

'

, you just cannot brush off the other discrepancies of the post just because you had one different read. Which i can fairly see DP thinks you are doing.

You did the similar thing a few times before also.
You literally said:

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.

A bit after that you even enforce the statement with this:

It's also the second time a seemingly passive player has burst into life and suddenly gone ultra-aggressive, which as I said earlier I read as more likely to come from scum who are having a hard time blending it otherwise and feel the need to create waves.

Doing so against a partner would be a safer route of achieving this.

Outoforder at least comes across as Townie to some extent, which I'm not seeing from Roden yet.

And after this you are questioning Oats on his read or non-read on gob.

What am i supposed to think??? You give every single piece of clue that you're scumreading both Roden and Oats, just to later on say that you didn't do so and you have never said so.
Again, yeah you are not explicitly lying, but whatever you posted in the thread between there that sure seems like that's the thought you had in your head.

Same thing again with your read on Roden as full. You call him out on being defensive, aggressive and potentially power wolfing (i dont care who said that first, you basically did call him out on that). When i question you on "how does being defensive or aggressive make anyone mafia?", you say you never said those things, it was Roden who brought it up. It's very very twisted how you build your posts just to backtrack on them -- again, by not lying, but you give the impression you DEFINITELY think something, and when it's called out you have a way to back off of it. Like here:

I am not saying inconsistencies are purely a mafia trait. Regarding Luca's town reads, i don't understand why he posts 5 town reads while saying he doesn't want to post town reads too early,

and also while thinking both Roden and Oats are mafia. Is that his best use of time, rather than idk.. questioning his scumreads or something?

And also when he does that, why does he want Oats to discuss gob??? Like the best situation interaction-wise a townie can get to, is to make mafia tell why another mafia is mafia.

Same here with Dann's comment on Dunstrall. It's very easy to see what Dann sees. There is a lot of content in the game so far. Why does Dunstrall think discussing lurkers is the most interesting point of discussion at the time?

You seem to massively contradict yourself from one sentence to another, unless I just don't understand what you're saying here.

I also don't have a strong SR on Oats and never have - just his interaction with Roden seemed off to me. I do, however, read Roden as scum independently.

You seem to be making out like I'm throwing all my chips on Oats and Roden being partners, which isn't the case at all. You're overblowing everything I've said.

Spoiler:

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.

You literally said this, so i don't know what else to think other than you seem to be thinking they are or could be mafia with each other.
If you don't believe they are mafia together at this point, why say so?

It was my initial reaction to the interaction. I even used the expression 'it wouldn't surprise me', so why are you trying to frame this as me being convinced that they are scum partners?

This is why I don't think your recent analysis is in good faith - I could see where you were coming from with your opening push, but now it feels like you're nitpicking anything to justify maintaining your read on me.

Please don't do this if youre town. I am trying to understand why you are coming to the conclusions and why you feel the need to post what you post.
I already said i can see your PoV from town perspective regarding Oats/Roden. I also think

it's possible

you are coming from town PoV regarding Dann.
However, you cannot just take one part of a case that's wrong and

because of that only

, try to brush the whole thing away. That's something i find scummy tbh. Take one part of the case where you know you are right and discredit everything else because of it. That's not how it works. I'm here to figure out yours and everyone's alignment, and i am pressing things that i feel like are alignment indicative. If something was not, it doesn't mean the person is not mafia, especially when there are other things that concern me on that person.

I haven't brushed anything away - I literally just said i understood where you were going from initially, which is why I made an effort to present my reads in a more transparent way.

Now i would still like you to explain how:
- If you don't "normally" solve by giving townreads at the time, then what made you think to post them just because i said you're not solving (after all that's not even what i meant)?

If you don't think that's good town play for you, why did you decide to do it

, if you're not sure of yourself to give those reads at any level of confidence at that time? Just because i am voting for you, should not be a reason. If someone asked me to do things i don't find helpful doing as town, i wouldn't do it. Why would i?

I've answered that already, and once again just above.

- If the above is something you did as town, why do you think Roden is mafia partly because he is being "defensive"? Because i would say the above there is way more "scummy defensive" than what Roden did towards Oats. Like if you believe being defensive is a scummy trait, wouldn't you consider yourself defensive towards my accusation (when there should be no reason for you to be defensive in your mind -- unless

you actually think you are not solving the game

, which you shouldn't as town)

The problem is that you're not reading properly.

I never specifically said Roden was scummy for being defensive, although I do think entering the thread purely to defend yourself is quite scummy, which is what happened initially.

What I said was that most of the things Roden accused oat of, including defensiveness, had also been displayed by Roden himself.

Nowhere have I ever said that being defensive automatically equals scum, because that would be ridiculous. I'm not sure why this even needs to be explained, as it should be obvious?

Like in that post you literally contradicted yourself in one sentence.

Basically, at best you are not doing very good job at being clear in what you think and how it reflects into the thread. When you are called out for your literal words you have written in this game, you say they meant something else. That's a big problem to me.

All of this still applies to Luca's play and means that he has not been accountable for any of his slip ups this game.

Further Luca has engaged in really shitty appeals to emotion and wifom since kind of coasting along post Oats yeet.

For example:

And this is where town loses in melo - where everyone becomes too sure of their reads and unwilling to consider they might be wrong, leading to an elimination that everyone is happy with, which more of than not is going to be town (that's me in this situation).

Who is really willing to consider that i might be town?

If the answer is no-one, then I might as well self-vote now and save us all some time.

Luca is basically saying in this post 'I am town and I am willing to throw the game if you guys scum read me' it's an attempt to paly on fear of townies and also -scum can afford to engage in gambits like this and town cannot-

I’m around now for a couple of hours.

I’ve been following the thread but I want to re read a bit and catch up properly.

ATM I Think HT+Luca is the most likely.

As I said to Vivax earlier, if I'm scum with Hu Tao why wouldn't I have voted to eliminate Vivax yesterday, when you strongly scumread Grack and townread Vivax, while Ninja only wanted Vivax dead, and Ninja was always going to be dead and you alive coming into D5?

In which case I've set myself up to fail, as you and Vivax are always going to vote me today following Grack's flip, and Ninja, who was my only supporter, is dead.

WIFOM

but the worst thing of all is his interactions this phase.

Its kind of tough to outline so i am about to quote a bunch of posts, but basically, Luca has been trying to follow the reads of anyone he happens to be interacting with (except me, probably cause I was not in the thread that much at start of day) and kind of shifts his reads to get on a common ground with them. Then scum reads people who call him mafia.

but the most egregious sin of all is this:

And this is where town loses in melo - where everyone becomes too sure of their reads and unwilling to consider they might be wrong, leading to an elimination that everyone is happy with, which more of than not is going to be town (that's me in this situation).

Who is really willing to consider that i might be town?

If the answer is no-one, then I might as well self-vote now and save us all some time.

I said I was willing to consider but you'd need to

sell me why vivax/naerys makes sense

I don't see any reason it doesn't make sense?

I'm certainly not putting all my eggs in the vivax/naerys basket. It wouldn't surprise me right now if Darth/Naerys was the scum team.

9 MINUTES LATER!!!!!

And who do you think are the 2 scum then?

Two of you/Vivax/Naerys. Right now I would guess you and Naerys.

Of course, it could be Darth, but if so then gg because there's no turning that around at this stage.

This is literally everyone in the game.

Who are your top 2? No hedging.

Ok, right now my money would be on you and Naerys being the scum team.

55 minutes later after saying that THERE IS NO REASON VIVAX/NEARYS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AS A SCUM TEAM. Vivax is now his strongest town read.

Ironically vivax has become my strongest townread,

and Darth is the most likely to be scum.

I feel as though Hu Tao and Naerys is a case of one pocketing the other, a bit like the Darth/oats dynamic earlier in the game.

Darth/Naerys is still my pick, I'll have a look through at the Darth/Hu Tao interactions.

This is just mafia play, he is flailing around throwing whatever on the wall he can hope to stick to anyone at all.

He is not being cautious about a mislim here, which will end the game, He is spreading chaos, certainly distancing from his partner and trying desperately to get a townie limmed over himself.

Then his attempt to quick lim me, while thread sentiment was poor for me and I had openly stated I was going to be away.

I’m around tomorrow a lot while I am at work to address all this stuff. We have plenty of time and I plan on making use of it.

F*ck it, let's go.

VOTE: Darth Punk

I realise this is an uphill battle against someone who everyone reads as town, but in that case then the game is lost anyway.

Nothing about Darth's reaction makes me think he could be town. As town he would see that I'm trying to solve the game, even if I suspect him, rather than say it makes me confirmed scum, because what is my motivation here as scum? As scum I don't go head to head with the consencus town read, nor against half of the tl crew like I did on D1 while (rightly) defending my townreads.

Then he does this. I cannot see how this comes from anything other than mafia.

Other points to consider,

He does this weird shit where he calls Vivax/Naerys the scum team as seen above, then he sheeps vivax on me, sheeps naerys and vivax and susses HT, then while talking with HT says

Right now I could see a world where both you and Naerys are town and the scum team is actually Darth/Vivax (who now thinks I'm scum with Darth again, lol).

I'm going to look into those interactions more.

This guy is all over the fucking place. He is mafia because he doesn't care about anything except his own survival and his reads are basically in place to appease whoever he happens to be interacting with at the time.

This is on top of all the reasons he was mafia before, the reasons myself, OOO and oats outlined all game.

VOTE: Luca Blight

[DarthPunk]

Town read the above please.

[Luca Blight]

Why did I not vote to eliminate vivax yesterday when you townread vivax and scumread Grack?

You said I have convenient reads, so what was convenient about that, if I'm scum and you're town?

cause you let me lead a mislim on grack, to put me in a situation where my alignment is questioned and I lose thread pull when i have to deal with you.

ALSO just wifom, you really love the wifom arguments hey?

Have I used your pushing of Grack to say you're scum? Not really. In hindsight it makes sense why you wanted to save vivax, though,

Ninja was practically begging to eliminate vivax, who I had scumread before. Yet I cause conflict with Grack, who wasn't previously scumreading me, and push a wagon that ended with a mislim, rather than letting Ninja take responsibility for the vivax elimination, and then use your scumread on grack to win the game in melo?

You can't say that my reads are convenient, but then when I point out why they aren't write it off as 'wifom'.

[DarthPunk]

Why did I not vote to eliminate vivax yesterday when you townread vivax and scumread Grack?

You said I have convenient reads, so what was convenient about that, if I'm scum and you're town?

cause you let me lead a mislim on grack, to put me in a situation where my alignment is questioned and I lose thread pull when i have to deal with you.

ALSO just wifom, you really love the wifom arguments hey?

Have I used your pushing of Grack to say you're scum? Not really. In hindsight it makes sense why you wanted to save vivax, though,

Ninja was practically begging to eliminate vivax, who I had scumread before. Yet I cause conflict with Grack, who wasn't previously scumreading me, and push a wagon that ended with a mislim, rather than letting Ninja take responsibility for the vivax elimination, and then use your scumread on grack to win the game in melo?

You can't say that my reads are convenient, but then when I point out why they aren't write it off as 'wifom'.

I wanted to save vivax cause I thought he was town. Maybe I was wrong about that, I still could be wrong, but there are good reasons to think he is town.

He has the right mix of paranoia and curiosity to solve that comes from town vivax.

Scum vivax is more of a troll.

[Luca Blight]

The main point though was that my reads haven't always been 'convenient' like you're making out. If I was scum and you and vivax are town like you seem to believe, then it would have been way more convenient to lim vivax on D4 for the reasons I explained.

[DarthPunk]

The main point though was that my reads haven't always been 'convenient' like you're making out. If I was scum and you and vivax are town like you seem to believe, then it would have been way more convenient to lim vivax on D4 for the reasons I explained.

I don't agree.