Mini 2332: A Mid-scummer Nights Dream II | GG

[Von Payne]

It's Von bestie

[Von Payne]

UNVOTE:

[Von Payne]

Ok new plan

Everyone unvotes and we make Catgirls double vote and then we make Silver Ravens double vote

That will at least out them if they have it or confirm that the partner has it

[Von Payne]

Wait that still doesn't work because if Catgirls is town then voting will just lose the game

Sry this is hard for me

[Von Payne]

Catgirls you should vote for Silver Ravens again

[Von Payne]

Wait that still doesn't work because if Catgirls is town then voting will just lose the game

Sry this is hard for me

Ignore this I'm not sure wtf I was thinking

I feel like I've rubbed my stupid all over this game

[Von Payne]

I think Jupiter and fire being on opposite ends of the Catgirl/Silver Ravens 1v1 is hella scummy. Much like Catgirls' split on the Von/Kirigiri 1v1

It feels like fake dissonance being weaponized for an agenda

[Von Payne]

Catgirls -> Sunflower probably just wins the game

[Von Payne]

I think Jupiter and fire being on opposite ends of the Catgirl/Silver Ravens 1v1 is hella scummy. Much like Catgirls' split on the Von/Kirigiri 1v1

It feels like fake dissonance being weaponized for an agenda

these are substantially different situations. the catgirls split you were right i think, that was scummy because it benefits them heavily, alisae could hard push kyoko and then after a townflip maria can show up and push the other side

here that benefit pretty obviously doesn't apply. can you elaborate on your thought process on what the agenda is that you think the dissonance is being weaponized for?

Well it seems pretty clear to me. If you are partnered with either Catgirls or Silver Ravens then your win con is to not get faded after your scum buddy does. I think showing visible dissonance and putting yourself on either side of the 1v1 does two things. One it allows you to vote either way depending on which way the wind blows. This is beneficial because you can just win the game now if the votes go the right way. Two it gives you an out tomorrow if your buddy is faded. You can just blame wanting to go for the conf townie on dissonance

[Von Payne]

like idk i think if we were scum here then i would be fully informed of the gamestate and i would know what the ideal path to victory here is and i would have been planning how to reach that for a while

i can't really think of a world where dissonance in this situation would help with that possible plan so im not sure what makes you think that it would

I think your ideal path to victory would be what I just outlined and the dissonance is involved in that path. If the solve is just Catgirls/you then Jupiter wanting to vote Silver Ravens is a pretty decent way to try and just win the game now

[Von Payne]

VOTE: Catgirls

[Von Payne]

I also want anyone to look at Von's posting and look and see if that is a villager trying to solve the game or just a mafia pushing the final ML they need to win.

And remember the dead villager that called out Von for being fake and we got rid of sadly.

Or the third (and real) option: a townie that is too disinterested to care about solving

[Von Payne]

And remember the dead villager that called out Von for being fake and we got rid of sadly.

They also called you mafia

They said Von first but go off

This is a lie

[Von Payne]

But go off ig

[Von Payne]

<3

[Von Payne]

Hey I am back, what did I miss?

Oh we are voting Chipotle?

Nice

[Von Payne]

Hey I am back, what did I miss?

Oh we are voting Chipotle?

Nice

Why couldn't you be the active head? I would've been able to laugh more if you were the one tunneling me out of pure irony.

Black has been a big meanie and made me cry

I wish we were scum, that would have been the ultimate revenge lol

But it seems I taught Black well at the very least

[Von Payne]

Black has been a big meanie and made me cry

Fake news

[Von Payne]

Team is Silver+Sun.

Sun wouldn't knew it was hammer If not doublevote.

Good luck.

Yep

[Von Payne]

it has to be von payne i think

bzzzzzt

If you're town then it's either Enchant or Ydrasse

[Von Payne]

My reads have been so bad this game so idk what to think

[Von Payne]

maybe "idk our strange actions are because we thought our role had hidden bastard modifiers" is sometimes just a wolf

I don't think we had strange actions at all

[Von Payne]

maybe "idk our strange actions are because we thought our role had hidden bastard modifiers" is sometimes just a wolf

I don't think we had strange actions at all

we went on an entire tangent lik day 2/3 where your slot said "ohhhh we made these choices and they were all because we thought there was a secret modifier to our role and maybe we could impact it like this or that!" when it would have been a convenient way to tie together whatever thought processes you were posting

That's not what we were saying at all?

We targeted Aureal and Sunflower because we townread them. That applied to Prism and Catgirls as well but to a lesser extent. The extra role theory stuff was just icing on the cake if it happened to be true

[Von Payne]

Anyway I'd rather not rehash it but feel free to go back and check for yourself. Yes the conversation was centralized around our theories but that's because people seemed to be putting all the focus on them

[Von Payne]

Ydra's inaccurate depiction of that whole debacle probably indicates she's town. I feel like scum would make sure to have a better grasp on what we were saying in order to not misrepresent us

[Von Payne]

I like Charmander

:dead;

[Von Payne]

We didn't request fast night. Whatcha gonna do about it GOD?

[Von Payne]

VOTE: Silver Ravens

[Von Payne]

It's not us. The only problem is I'm not sure if it's Enchant or Sunflower. I'm leaning Sunflower

[Von Payne]

Ok so Sunflower is scum

[Von Payne]

I'm not sure how we're ever gonna convince the other townie that we're townie. But Jupiter coming in here saying he's 100% sure it's me should be a dead giveaway

[Von Payne]

It's no coincidence he did that after ydra said she thought it was me

[Von Payne]

(it means if you are town, all 3 your topreads were mafia)

Do you think it's more likely I put my scum buddies at the top of my list or I'm just a townie with bad reads?

[Von Payne]

Ydra with all due respect I think you have come to the conclusion that I'm scum and now you're conf biased looking over things

[Von Payne]

I think Jupiter's hammer on Catgirls is still really bad optics

[Von Payne]

if you think sunflower is a wolf they have an extensive iso and there should be something more compelling in that iso that you can analyze or share that shows why it’s likely them

Yeah but that like requires me to put effort into the game

I'll see what I can do later

[Von Payne]

(it means if you are town, all 3 your topreads were mafia)

Do you think it's more likely I put my scum buddies at the top of my list or I'm just a townie with bad reads?

My opinion not relevant. I will die.

Good luck with Ydrasse.

I don't see how this makes your opinion irrelevant! Maybe you can talk some sense into ydra

[Von Payne]

they aren't genuinely trying to sort things.

I am though. I just may not being doing it how people want me to

I won't be convinced Enchant is town until he's dead. I think ydra is the only one I can trust here

[Von Payne]

the arguments here are framing things as "looking bad" because they know that our actions don't have scum motivation behind them. it's just gotcha attempts

I think the scum motivation behind hammering Catgirls is incredibly obvious

[Von Payne]

If Enchant is the kill then I feel like this is gonna be a battle of fire trying hard versus me and Drew just doing nothing and ydra is probably going to side with fire. I think the answer would be for Drew and I to try hard but I'm not sure if we have it in us this game. I'll consider it

[Von Payne]

Jupiter hammered Catgirls 30 minutes after I put her to e-1. The double vote plus hammer was the play all along. They made sure they got the hammer in quick before anyone changed their votes

[Von Payne]

Jupiter hammered Catgirls 30 minutes after I put her to e-1. The double vote plus hammer was the play all along. They made sure they got the hammer in quick before anyone changed their votes

they posted several times before hammering and after you voted - why didn’t they immediately vote?

My guess is they were still talking to Silver Ravens in the PT about the double vote or something. I'm not really sure. They could have been going over options where they hammer and don't win immediately

[Von Payne]

I remember Von voted catgirl long before and hammer also didn't happen.

If they were worried about ydra's role and the possibility of the hammer not winning the game then they would have to do it in a relatively townie way. IE Jupiter hammering and then acting like he didn't know it was a hammer

[Von Payne]

(it means if you are town, all 3 your topreads were mafia)

Do you think it's more likely I put my scum buddies at the top of my list or I'm just a townie with bad reads?

My opinion not relevant. I will die.

Good luck with Ydrasse.

I remember Von voted catgirl long before and hammer also didn't happen.

Also this is kinda funny. Your opinion is only relevant when you're sussing us huh?

[Von Payne]

like you could try to argue that we're scum who for some reason decided to bet the game on things not being over when ydra clearly was softing a role that potentially could affect things

or you could try to argue that we're scum who thought we could get away with voting if we did it in a towny looking way (while also deciding not to just be patient and play things out in a fairly normal way)

I think the optimal play was to vote Catgirls but you still had to do it in a believable way in case the game didn't end. So I'm not really seeing the issue here

[Von Payne]

What if Enchant is scum and he's not voting fast night because he's still trying to figure out which of me/Sunflower to kill

[Von Payne]

i’m going to rock bottom now trying to glean any scrap of knowledge and i’m curious if anyone has any thoughts on this whatsoever because otoh it’s safe to claim you visited a partner but also i feel like with her role being to find potential dreamers she really did just visit sunflower with that idk

Is it safe for her to say she targeted a partner? I feel like a tracker or watcher or something could have foiled that super easy and it would be two scum dead

[Von Payne]

reading through some things i kind of feel like if aureal is a wolf von payne is one too based off of earlier defending. the hider thing is enough for me to be fine with aureal dying i think but i’m meh about her flipping wolf. is more of a “i hope so” than an i know so.

also i think that the in thread neighborhood role feels more elegant in my heart to be a wolf role. seems more in line with the game design i would expect for this game than it being town

SAVE ME PAST ME

I'm not going to be upset if you just end up choosing us. I don't think we've been particularly townie so I can't really blame you. If there's anything I can do to make your decision easier lmk

[Von Payne]

i’m going to rock bottom now trying to glean any scrap of knowledge and i’m curious if anyone has any thoughts on this whatsoever because otoh it’s safe to claim you visited a partner but also i feel like with her role being to find potential dreamers she really did just visit sunflower with that idk

Is it safe for her to say she targeted a partner? I feel like a tracker or watcher or something could have foiled that super easy and it would be two scum dead

is… the implication here ultimately then that aureal visited a town sunflower .

Yes, but if Enchant is the NK then that implication goes away because I don't think you can be scum here

[Von Payne]

Can I just say how ironic this is considering you openly said you're going to "not talk to any of your wolfreads and ignore them?" I'm not as sold as my hydra partner is on you being a wolf Gimli but when your reads change entirely overly irl days with barely any posts in-between in some instances to justify those flips it's odd. Then to have the confidence to go "My wolfreads are so correct that I'm going to ignore them!" Like, to me you have to be a wolf making this up or this is a new level of egotistical delusion that I haven't seen before.

Let's not forget if I remember correctly a lot of this was made during the first moon phase.

Spoiler: some of my PT work

trying an experiment here to see if I survive day 2

I'm ISOing a random guess at a scum team: klick, catgirl and actiondan

catgirl: post #91 is very strange commentary post. I do not believe maria cares this much about people "talking about dreams so much" that she has to make any comment on it. *note to self: one post in and I'm already tunneling this slot*
#100 is bad mech as we all know
#102 is another comment that I just don't see maria feeling the need to make when she is a townie. it's clear that kyoko is either towning or emulating a towny perspective on dream guesses: yes the dream guesses are supposedly NAI, but can't there be towny ways to do that? I see no reason why they COULDN'T, and I see no point in maria talking down an early townlean like that unless she has reasons to either scumread the player or to scumread kyoko. again, filler commentary that sucks.
#112 is bad mech again

then klick finally shows up... repeating catgirl's bad mech reasoning. it's kind of a bad post, kinda awkward idk. post #126

AD shows up with #200. I remember seeing towny things in this post, but are they there really? it starts really bad with spitey comments that don't say anything about anything. I do kinda like the post, though. let's see how this goes.

catgirls #212: still scum. #215 is how scum townreads a towny. I should maybe bring this up tomorrow.

AD's #229: yeah I don't think AD is scum.

ok so like, catgirl is scum. but who is it scum with? my first impression is NOT with AD

and if both AD and hu tao are townies, then either klick went full TMI on d1, or klick is just a townie with good impressions.

I think the best defense for town!klick is that he tried a counterwagon to town!hu tao and also to maybe town!AD

he did go to aureal but I think it makes sense and I'm not so sure if aureal is indeed town or if she just pocketed me really hard.

I have to find other partners for catgirl anyway. I wonder if prism fits the bill.

yeah I don't think its aureal either

so prism, there's a lot of hmmmm stuff about her, isn't there? should be worth exploring

I don't hink #84 is such an organic thought on re-read. it feels just too much like posturing and making logical sounding posts that don't amount to much.

catgirl and prism are having a little disagreement on mechanics but it does NOT mean absolutely anything wrt their alignments, of course. what's worse is that prism used this later on to justify having a townread on the hydra because she 'doesnt think alisae would disagree with me on mechanics'. I'll catch that post and put here when I find it.

#158 also doesnt feel like a real thought and if prism is a townie and this is what she does as a townie then im not impressed at all and I think she is just not a very good scumhunter (in before scum dragoneater)

I will also note that the townread on hu tao could easily be TMI on her part. and that's because all the possible wagons were lending on townies anyway, so posturing with a defense of hu tao gives you townpoints.

#195 also just sounds like bullshit and not a real read.

I have to really case prism if I wanna put this through though.

I'll note that catgirl's #212 "I find Dragon's posting towny and I don't understand the townread's on Prism's slot.
There posting is very well written like reading a royal script, but I would've come to expect that as either alignment. If any of the people townreading them wish to expand more on why that would mean a lot" I once again have a problem with maria/ali having a problem with people's reads that don't talk about anyone specifically and that don't have a read on prism or anything like that. again, this is filler, this isn't solving.

#215-#216 is a whole lot of awkwardness from these players. I think they have high svs equity and I hope to god I'm right and getting somewhere with this.

I think its prism/catgirl and then, lets see...

I think AD townreading prism like that happens when he is a townie and she is scum or whatever but not when they're scum together, I don't think. or maybe? idk

I'll trust that ydra is town. I think I'll trust that klick is town.

goddammit I don't think its sunflower man. maybe its aureal after all? shit.

this + enchants behavior the past like few days and also not being on the wagon means that i shrimply don’t think he’s wolf

Why does 1133 make you think he can't be a wolf?

[Von Payne]

reading through some things i kind of feel like if aureal is a wolf von payne is one too based off of earlier defending. the hider thing is enough for me to be fine with aureal dying i think but i’m meh about her flipping wolf. is more of a “i hope so” than an i know so.

also i think that the in thread neighborhood role feels more elegant in my heart to be a wolf role. seems more in line with the game design i would expect for this game than it being town

SAVE ME PAST ME

I'm not going to be upset if you just end up choosing us. I don't think we've been particularly townie so I can't really blame you. If there's anything I can do to make your decision easier lmk

i get that i wasn’t as active early on and railed against the early neighborhood activity and usefulness but currently i really and truly don’t know if i can find you as town if you don’t offer something or a reason it’s anyone else that has weight behind it. a case or connection with the other wolves finding motivation in someone’s iso - literally anything that shows that it could be another person

like if you are town i’ll admit atm i am sinking this ship but with the less and less heart in this game it reads more to me like the game was supposed to end and it suddenly didn’t and there’s not… a lot of places for you to go

but if i’m wrong i seriously need something from you that can convince me otherwise

Let me see who dies and then I'll know who scum is for sure and I'll work on a case

[Von Payne]

i’m going to rock bottom now trying to glean any scrap of knowledge and i’m curious if anyone has any thoughts on this whatsoever because otoh it’s safe to claim you visited a partner but also i feel like with her role being to find potential dreamers she really did just visit sunflower with that idk

Is it safe for her to say she targeted a partner? I feel like a tracker or watcher or something could have foiled that super easy and it would be two scum dead

is… the implication here ultimately then that aureal visited a town sunflower .

Yes, but if Enchant is the NK then that implication goes away because I don't think you can be scum here

i don’t follow idk if we are talking past each other but i read this as it’s dangerous for aureal to visit a partner so she doesn’t and actually visited sunflower who is town to avoid pr stuff

is it just that this is what happened in a town enchant world or that aureal ultimately lied or etc

If this is what happened then Enchant has to be scum

[Von Payne]

how would you know who it would be for sure thoigh if i die if you’re positing two different possibilities currently?

For some reason I didn't think you could die

If you die then this is gonna be really hard for me

[Von Payne]

how would you know who it would be for sure thoigh if i die if you’re positing two different possibilities currently?

For some reason I didn't think you could die

If you die then this is gonna be really hard for me

also if you’re town sorry for being demanding of you if you can’t or anything but it makes me worried if you’re unwilling to case now etc because it can come across like trying to avoid engaging with a townie

is drew still active too?

Well I'm at work so I can't case now anyway. And I'd rather just wait for someone to die so it makes it easier for me

Drew hasn't been active in our PT at all

[Von Payne]

If Von again dumbtells that i may be scum, i instavote here if Ydrasse dies.

I am not dealing with this.

Cool story bro

Like it or not you're still in the PoE

[Von Payne]

If Von again dumbtells that i may be scum, i instavote here if Ydrasse dies.

I am not dealing with this.

This post is so weird. Enchant seems mad that I'm the only one scumreading him

[Von Payne]

Well I'm not even scumreading him but I don't think he's clear like Sunflower and Ydra do

[Von Payne]

What are you even talking about

I'm not going to take you out of the PoE just because it upsets you

[Von Payne]

Makes me wish i am nk.

You already said you thought you were going to be the NK

[Von Payne]

fire is already planting the seeds in Enchant's head to fade me

Town is going to lose this game

[Von Payne]

VOTE: Sunflowers

ActionDan

Gimli

Von Payne (Black/Doctor Drew hydra)

Kyoko Kirigiri
Prism

Aureal

Catgirl Chipotle (Alisae/MariaR hydra)

Silver Ravens (GuyInFreezer/Dunnstral hydra)

Sunflower (fireisredsir/JupiterXV hydra)

Ydrasse

I think this was where I was last time, aside from the deados.
I have deandy session to prep and run today so my time today is p limited, so I'll re-attempt (again) to read those longposts back then.
My current Gun-to-the-head is that it ain't Gimli nor Ydrasse out of all uncolored, so maybe I'll end up agreeing with Gimli's theory's QED, and while not necessarily agreeing with the theory itself.

This vote feels like a distancing attempt considering SR townreads Sunflower

I also think the below post has an undertone of defensiveness when asking Catgirls about their vote on Sunflower

You call Sunflower town and then vote them why? Is this two different hydra heads?

[Von Payne]

If we think ydra reveals dreams, that does not make her town.

wait i might be misremembering setup but doesn't scum already have dream hijinks shit like they can choose a dream to see and then axe it???

So uh, I don't see any mention of this in the setup notes in post 1. All the post says is that the Bad Dreams confer secretly and then create a discard priority. It doesn't say they choose a dream to see.

I think it's possible that you are mafia and that mafia could have a role that does what you are describing and that you confused that with public info in making this post

If we think ydra reveals dreams, that does not make her town.

wait i might be misremembering setup but doesn't scum already have dream hijinks shit like they can choose a dream to see and then axe it???

So uh, I don't see any mention of this in the setup notes in post 1. All the post says is that the Bad Dreams confer secretly and then create a discard priority. It doesn't say they choose a dream to see.

I think it's possible that you are mafia and that mafia could have a role that does what you are describing and that you confused that with public info in making this post

i'mpretty sure scum has to know what the dream is if they want to remove it???

Why are you pretty sure about that?

We've been voting for dreams without knowing what they are, based on the names.

Why are you pretty sure about that?

We've been voting for dreams without knowing what they are, based on the names.

idk it just makes sense

OK. So I am circling back to thinking it is possible that what you described is correct but you are mafia and somebody has a role that allows for this to happen, and you unintentionally let this slip.

OK. So I am circling back to thinking it is possible that what you described is correct but you are mafia and somebody has a role that allows for this to happen, and you unintentionally let this slip.

im not really sure this is a slip, whyu are you so sold on this? is it because youre scum and you know for a fact that there's a scum pr that allows them to reveal dreams?

This feels like theatre. Especially Jupiter's scumread on SR at the end

[Von Payne]

Looking through Aureal's iso, their interactions with Gimli do not feel like they are both mafia togther. They respond to Gimli several times with arguments and earlier they locked Gimli as town which Actiondan pointed out was premature.

Hmmmm

[Von Payne]

UNVOTE: Von Payne

I think that Sunflower looks pretty suspect in the past few pages. They seem disingenuous to me, I find it hard to believe that they are being truthful about their stance on Kyoko and thinking about partners. And Von Payne was the one to point it out so perhaps some consideration is in order

SR doesn't interact or mention Sunflower for a LONG time until this post pops up. Yet another "I'm kinda suspicious of Sunflower" post, yet no vote or any indication that they want to vote there

[Von Payne]

Aureal was a mechanical check so the wagon info is not too important. Hu Tao was pushed over Sunflower and Kyoko was pushed over Von Payne.

IMO there is at least 1 mafia between Catgirl Chipotle and Von Payne. We also suspect Sunflower. Leaning towards 2 mafia being in those 3 players. We townread ActionDan. For Ydrasse and Enchant we would need a convincing argument to consider there as we feel other players are more likely to be mafia.

ActionDan we're not sure why you suspect it is us but hopefully you reevaluate and think about how this game played out; we are not the ones pushing through these miseliminations and we wonder who you think we would be teamed with.

Oh we think Von Payne and Sunflower together seemed unlikely based on Von Payne pushing Sunflower earlier based on their stance on Kyoko and not thinking Kyoko would have any other partners. That whole conversation it felt like Sunflower slipped up a bit and Von Payne called them out on it which felt unaligned.

Yeah I think it's probably just Sunflower here

[Von Payne]

btw if we were scum we would have done that back near the start of day when there were two votes on catgirls

like you could try to argue that we're scum who for some reason decided to bet the game on things not being over when ydra clearly was softing a role that potentially could affect things

or you could try to argue that we're scum who thought we could get away with voting if we did it in a towny looking way

(while also deciding not to just be patient and play things out in a fairly normal way)

both of these i think don't hold very much water at least beyond the surface level but you especially can't really pick and choose between them based on whichever suits your point at the time, bc they would depend on very different mindsets/motivations

I think there's a contradiction here. Fire uses some bad wifom to say they would have just hammered Catgirls at the start of the day if they were scum. Then he suggests in the second post that they would have just been patient and let things play out in a fairly normal way

[Von Payne]

VOTE: silver ravens for now!!! will reread in depth and probably change my mind but im comfortable / confident w this

also i do think that if silver ravens is dreamer and catgirls is scum it is INCREDIBLY suicidal to cc there but maybe there's a strat there i dunno

sorry i rescind my partner theory on catgirls/silver ravens, the first dreamer is always town

This feels fake

[Von Payne]

I don't think town!Jupiter would be confident in that read at all

[Von Payne]

i wasnt serious about turning it back on you, not like you're one of my townreads but whatevr i guess

this is sarcasm

I didn't even see this post but this makes the whole thing even scummier imo

[Von Payne]

also if u think i’m scum and this is theatre what motive do i have to either:
a) genuinely scum slip and then yell at my scum buddy to yell about me for it (draws attention to something that literally the entire thread said wasn’t a scumslip)
or b) fake a scumslip ??? and then plan out an entire interaction???
like why do i do this ever

If you're scum it's pretty obviously a distancing attempt. You two scumread each other and then pretend like it never happened

[Von Payne]

I don't think town!Jupiter would be confident in that read at all

sucks to suck, i’m town
now explain why this read makes me scum

I don't think town!you is confident in reads very often, especially in a situation where you need to reread and get a better grasp on the game. You saying that you're confident in SR being scum doesn't feel real

[Von Payne]

Jupiter is flailing here

[Von Payne]

do think it’s weird that enchant was like “stop scumreading me or i’ll vote you” and now black is conveniently locked into a scumread on me

I'm not locked into it. I read over some things and now I think it's probably just you

[Von Payne]

also if u think i’m scum and this is theatre what motive do i have to either:
a) genuinely scum slip and then yell at my scum buddy to yell about me for it (draws attention to something that literally the entire thread said wasn’t a scumslip)
or b) fake a scumslip ??? and then plan out an entire interaction???
like why do i do this ever

If you're scum it's pretty obviously a distancing attempt. You two scumread each other and then pretend like it never happened

that didn’t happen what

my entire push on silver ravens was because they acted like it didn’t happen what

It absolutely happened. There have been multiple times where SL dropped a scumread on you and then just moved on like he didn't care at all

[Von Payne]

like i pushed him because he dropped it what

Where did you push him?

[Von Payne]

this is a really interesting interpretation of my towngame

Do you disagree?

[Von Payne]

I really don't like this post by Jupiter where it doesn't even seem like he's considering Kirigiri as an Aureal/Silver Ravens partner

funny how black engaged with jupiter's push on ravens at the time to discredit it but now is acting like it never happened

Bad memory isn't funny. Nice try though

[Von Payne]

I really don't like this post by Jupiter where it doesn't even seem like he's considering Kirigiri as an Aureal/Silver Ravens partner

funny how black engaged with jupiter's push on ravens at the time to discredit it but now is acting like it never happened

Bad memory isn't funny. Nice try though

didn’t you say you read back

I looked over some things but I didn't see that

[Von Payne]

Looking back on it now I think it's pretty wild that Jupiter mentions a couple times how confident he is in SR!scum, and fire even agrees with him that SR is somewhat sus, but when fire moves the vote Jupiter doesn't seem to be phased by it at all. He just drops it

[Von Payne]

this is a really interesting interpretation of my towngame

Do you disagree?

yea??? you’ve literally seen me be rlly confident and incorrect about my reads before idk where all of this is coming from. but at least i’ve never been wrong in ELO before, so at least i can be confident about this

I think there's a distinct difference in the conviction you display in your scum game as opposed to your town game

[Von Payne]

where did you come up with the idea that jupiter scumread ravens and then pretended it never happened? bc if you were actually reading through the iso and analyzing when you said that i think it's really clear that didn't happen

bad memory happens obviously but if you're relying on memory here to state things as if they definitively happened that way then ......

I was moreso referring to how SR mentioned a few times that your slot is sus but he never acts on it and doesn't ever seem interested in actually sorting you

[Von Payne]

well yeah he was scum of course he wasn't genuinely interested in sorting us ???

He showed genuine interest in sorting other people, or at least faking it. That same energy doesn't apply to you

[Von Payne]

Jupiter this is like the 3rd time you've demanded evidence from me. I'm not here to prove to you that you're scum

If Enchant or Ydra disagree with the assessment they can interact with me about it

[Von Payne]

well ok maybe consider that i want you to elaborate on your interpretation of my meta because i’m self centered

If Jupiter were town here and actually thought I was 100% scum then this wouldn't even cross his mind. He would be thinking that I'm making up the meta argument to make him seem scummy

[Von Payne]

Ok I have to go for a bit. I pinged Drew in our PT because I really want his thoughts here

[Von Payne]

anyways if no one minds i'm going to talk about reasons why i'm town now because no one's asked me and i don't really want to wait for anything

or rather reasons why I cna't be scum

I think this is more likely to come from scum than town. I think a townie with such a strong scumread on me would spend their time trying to prove I'm scum instead of trying to prove they are town

[Von Payne]

I have a feeling that Jupiter is starting to get that guilty feeling like he got in the game we were scum together where he thinks everyone is scumreading him just because one or two people were. As a result his next natural step after our interaction was to prove his innocence

Here are some quotes from our PT

i know logically a lot of people townread me but i feel like the entire game is doing a witch hunt to find me and burn me

i'm in a really bad fucking position rn. i wish shaddow would scumread me for an actual valid reason though

tbf ive thought im in a "really fucking bad" position the whole game so maybe its not as bad as i think

i wish t3 is allowed to be in this thread so he could give me a pat on the back and be like "you're the towniest player in this game go get em tiger", lying to my face but it would help encourage me i think

[Von Payne]

Town!Jupiter comes out of our interaction with a desire to catch scum!me. Scum!Jupiter comes out of our interaction with a desire to show people why he can't be scum

[Von Payne]

reading back i am so annoyed at myself for all the dumb reasons i kept being tempted to clear von payne

[Von Payne]

I don’t rlly think kirigiri is a wolf tho

My order is more like Von Payne/Ravens, gap, then Catgirl/Kirigiri/Sunflower in a bunch. I decided not to spend much time on Dan, and maybe that's a mistake, but oh well.

the thing im actually maybe most annoyed about is the point where i was like "it's catgirls/dan and hmm the prism kill doesn't quite fit with that but maybe they wanted to just kill a strong voice for the sake of thread control"

nope that was not why

This is a cute attempt to bring Prism's read forward to try and get others to believe his solve

[Von Payne]

I don’t rlly think kirigiri is a wolf tho

My order is more like Von Payne/Ravens, gap, then Catgirl/Kirigiri/Sunflower in a bunch. I decided not to spend much time on Dan, and maybe that's a mistake, but oh well.

the thing im actually maybe most annoyed about is the point where i was like "it's catgirls/dan and hmm the prism kill doesn't quite fit with that but maybe they wanted to just kill a strong voice for the sake of thread control"

nope that was not why

This is a cute attempt to bring Prism's read forward to try and get others to believe his solve

it is cute because everything fire does is cute

We definitely agree there

[Von Payne]

I just don't see how it could be ydra. She clearly withheld her role information in order to fool scum into thinking they could win when they couldn't

I'm going to withhold my vote for now just in case there is something I'm missing

Drew checked into the PT yesterday and just said he has no clue who it is. I'm hoping to get more from him in ELO

[Von Payne]

what did you vote for the dreams yesterday?

We didn't vote for any dreams. Unless Drew did it without my knowledge. We've been really bad about sending stuff in before the deadline this game

[Von Payne]

Yep, nothing in sent folder but fast night request. And we didn't vote for any dreams in our PT

[Von Payne]

Waiting for ydra to check in

[Von Payne]

Oh nvm

[Von Payne]

Ok so Sunflower is scum confirmed but I already had that feeling

VOTE: sunflower

[Von Payne]

I'm at work but I'm addicted to the game so I'll be around for the next few hours but my responses may be delayed

[Von Payne]

so we knew enchant probably had to be the dreamer, and i think that's why enchant thought at first that they were going to get killed for sure. but von payne didn't know that for sure bc we hadn't claimed yet, so from their pov we could potentially be the dreamer. that's what i was trying to point out to enchant but idk if enchant knew that. we decided not to claim earlier bc we didn't want to out the dreamer by narrowing the pool further since we aren't a deep sleeper

we can claim now i guess although it doesn't really matter at this point

I'm going to be completely honest and I don't mean for this to be a dumbtell or anything like that, but I haven't been paying attention to the mechanics very much. I've glossed over a lot of the conversation around it. I'm super bad at mech and this can be proven just by looking at my previous games

It never even crossed my mind who could and couldn't be the dreamer. I'm still not even really sure how the dreamer is determined once the first one dies

[Von Payne]

von payne both of you if you’re town im genuinely very sorry but i don’t think i can find you this game

Understandable. And I think that is mostly my fault so if you vote us here I don't think you can blame yourself

[Von Payne]

I never have and never will put all my teammates at the top of my list as scum. Obviously there's no way you can trust this is true but that's like the best case I have for town!us

[Von Payne]

Sunflower
Aureal

Silver Ravens
DragonEater70

Prism
Catgirl Chipotle
Klick
kyouko

ActionDan
ydra
Gimli

Alianna

This is about where I'm at rn

Tomorrow during my little window of freedom after work I want to spend my time looking over my nulls and maybe trying to get a lean one way or another

~B

This just doesn't come from scum!me. It's way more likely to come from town!me because I've been disconnected from the game for most of it and it would make sense that I had 3 scum in my top 3 slots

[Von Payne]

you didn't tho

we were at the top

You're splitting hairs to make me look bad. Obviously you have to do this because you're scum but hopefully ydra sees it

[Von Payne]

Yes but I'm on mobile and my lunch break is over in 13 minutes. Can it wait until I get off work?

[Von Payne]

viewtopic.php?t=90438

I'll go ahead and post this one since it's one of my first games and easy to find. The others I'll have to pick through because I can't remember how many times I've been in elo

[Von Payne]

I encourage you to look over my case on Jupiter a couple pages ago because now that it's proven to be him I know I was spot on

[Von Payne]

Also I don't think it's a coincidence that Jupiter still hasn't scum cased me yet. It's a lot of work and he's just scum so he's hoping you vote for me without him having to do it

[Von Payne]

i’m not sure why fire hasn’t voted yet tbh
do u have any questions for the great jupiter

I do

Can you present that scum case on me now?

[Von Payne]

I completely disagree with that assessment. I already showed proof that Jupiter gets really quiet and takes a back seat once he feels like people are scumreading him. That's exactly what he's doing here

[Von Payne]

There's a reason why fire is doing all the talking now. Jupiter doesn't want to blow this for them

[Von Payne]

This is different because I know he's scum now. This isn't the gotcha that you think it is

[Von Payne]

Drew hasn't given a shit about this game for over a week now

Scum!Drew wouldn't do that btw

[Von Payne]

Anyway I don't think engaging with scum is going to help me win here, especially considering fire is a smooth talker

Ydra I'll be back later to provide you the rest of those games and I'll check in periodically to answer any questions you may have

[Von Payne]

i’m not sure why fire hasn’t voted yet tbh
do u have any questions for the great jupiter

I do

Can you present that scum case on me now?

no because it is four sentences long

Can you post them please?

[Von Payne]

Drew hasn't given a shit about this game for over a week now

Scum!Drew wouldn't do that btw

More of having the wind taken out of my sail from how we borked what we thought was a killer role, a little bit of burnout, and you doing much better without me, Lady Black

And at the risk of self meta, it is very true that, especially in elo as the only scum, I would be very much engaged, this is when I thrive as scum.....but hey, a good player can manipulate that as well, so I am not expecting Ydra to suddenly think we are town just because of that(plus I don't think I have any experience with her anyways)

[Von Payne]

do you have any games you can link if you playing endgame? @von

Open 891
Open 885
Micro 1096

I'm pretty sure this is all of them

[Von Payne]

More of having the wind taken out of my sail from how we borked what we thought was a killer role, a little bit of burnout,

and you doing much better without me, Lady Black

I'm not sure about that

Whoops. Quoting this for the ISO

[Von Payne]

Jupiter has been scumposting for like 7 pages now and fire has had to jump in and save him every time

Ydra please

[Von Payne]

You can vote us if you think it's us I would be happy for this game to be over I'm only here out of respect for the dead villagers

OKOK BET
fire said he thinks it's literally always you and i trust him so

get blammed!!!!

blasts you!!!!!!!!!!

VOTE: catgirls

i don't think jupiter was expecting that to be a hammer

for the record i did not expect him to vote although i was probably always going to land there eventually

i didn't know it was going to be a hammer, it shouldn't have hammered

Literally screamed BLASTING YOU.

that is just something he says lol

fire also did it here when Jupiter hammered

Jupiter knew this was going to be a hammer all along. They talked about the double vote in the scum PT. The only problem is Jupiter forgot to phrase it like an ordinary vote. He had the hammer on his conscience

[Von Payne]

I figured you would bring that up, because you brought it up earlier too

I don't think the word "blammed" is what indicates it's a hammer post. It's the finality of it. The formatting. The punctuation. The use of "blasts you!!!!" after the blam

You can fake being annoyed all you want but I'm not going to stop

[Von Payne]

if you wanna try to scumcase thats fine just do it off things that actually happened

Oh so maybe you're actually annoyed but it's caught for wrong reasons

Gotcha. This is hilarious

[Von Payne]

I've never seen you try to weasel your way to win like this fire this is fun

[Von Payne]

Ydra I'm town we can win this

[Von Payne]

im not having fun tbh

I wouldn't be having fun in your position either. ELO is a nervous wreck as scum

[Von Payne]

mmmhmmm

[Von Payne]

I think you thought this would be easier and now you're upset that it's not

Neither you or Jupiter want to try here. You're just waiting for ydra to hammer me

[Von Payne]