Mini Normal 2334: trees (Night 3)

[Klick]

Bloop

[Thomith]

I think the expressed CCS vote reasoning is quite lazy as well and boils down to 'lurking is scummy for CCS', and 'interactions with awesomeming are bad', both of which are flawed

Could you point out where CCS lurking was mentioned as the reason why CCS was getting voted?
I feel like this was mentioned as a bad reason by someone else before, but I don't remember this being a reason for the votes.

[Gibdo]

VOTE: Klick


1793 raises a few big red flags for me.

First, putting Hu Tao in the "Town" category would be a very scary and hasty conclusion for a town-aligned player to reach, especially when you consider the following:
- Dannflor, as the only confirmed town, hard tunneling her in D1 and getting NK'd right after
- She was one of the five players to NOT vote awesomeming after a clear ball drop

- 1774 wouldn't give a decent player enough information at all to read Hu Tao as town, if there's more to your read here Klick then I need to see it.


Second, after Klick replacing camelCasedSnivy (who was heavily scumread by most of us) and reading up on the game, I don't think a good enough case was presented for Thomith to match such a strong scumread on him. I'd have expected something far stronger than "this doesn't feel genuine" in 1777.


Thirdly, the reads on ActionDan are inconsistent between 1786 and 1793, especially for only being a couple hours apart. It gives the impression that town's favor is trying to be gained by agreeing with him while not actually acknowledging that ActionDan has been consistently making incredibly town-aligned posts.

[Gibdo]

This feels like a desperate Klick trying to save the slot by trying to fabricate a case against one of the less-strongly townread players (Thomith) and also try to take suspicion off of Hu Tao as much as possible.

Hu Tao's OMGUS-esque vote against Grovyle supports my theory.

[Gibdo]

I think the play is limming Klick first since both they and cCS look very scummy, and then move to Hu Tao for a D3 lim, assuming no drastic changes in behavior.
Thomith should have a close eye kept on him as well.

[Gibdo]

Day Triple Vigilante Kill:

Hu Tao, camelCasedSnivy, awesomeming

He may have been cookin'

[Klick]

- 1774 wouldn't give a decent player enough information at all to read Hu Tao as town, if there's more to your read here Klick then I need to see it.

That's because my intention wasn't to demonstrate to you that Hu Tao is town, my intention was to briefly express my own thoughts on the things I cared about most while reading

I'm happy to town-case Hu Tao but I don't think this particular audience will be that receptive to my actual thoughts on the slot

[Klick]

I'll have to do that this evening, I've not really got time or energy for that on my lunch break

The very tl;dr is that I believe in Hu Tao's perspective of the game - I believe town would behave the way she's behaving, I think there are aspects of it that scum wouldn't intuitively fabricate, as an overall vibe she feels like she's genuinely pushing what she believes.

But people always hate the details of that sort of qualitative analysis

[Klick]

VOTE: Klick

1793 raises a few big red flags for me.

First, putting Hu Tao in the "Town" category would be a very scary and hasty conclusion for a town-aligned player to reach, especially when you consider the following:
- Dannflor, as the only confirmed town, hard tunneling her in D1 and getting NK'd right after
- She was one of the five players to NOT vote awesomeming after a clear ball drop
- 1774 wouldn't give a decent player enough information at all to read Hu Tao as town, if there's more to your read here Klick then I need to see it.

Second, after Klick replacing camelCasedSnivy (who was heavily scumread by most of us) and reading up on the game, I don't think a good enough case was presented for Thomith to match such a strong scumread on him. I'd have expected something far stronger than "this doesn't feel genuine" in 1777.

Thirdly, the reads on ActionDan are inconsistent between 1786 and 1793, especially for only being a couple hours apart. It gives the impression that town's favor is trying to be gained by agreeing with him while not actually acknowledging that ActionDan has been consistently making incredibly town-aligned posts.

I contrast it with this, which is a big wall of things that just serve to justify a vote that Gibdo clearly already wants to make

None of this actually says 'this makes Klick scum' and I don't think Gibdo believes in this as much as he wants to present something that looks competent

[Black]

I'm pretty sure this is Hu Tao's town game
I have a pretty good track record of reading Hu Tao
I have a fairly limited experience with her as scum, but I also think she has a really clear town perspective when she is town

What is this Really Clear Town Perspective^TM you are seeing from her

[Black]

None of this actually says 'this makes Klick scum' and I don't think Gibdo believes in this as much as he wants to present something that looks competent

I'm pretty sure you've accused me of doing this when I was town before. I think this is a go-to read of yours when you don't really like the case but it's not a very good way to catch scum imo

[Hu Tao]

Last 2 scum feels like it's in groyvle, elements, Thom.

Why do you think it's between us?

Cause I think the others are more towny

[Hu Tao]

I'm happy to talk to anyone who is interested in talking to me instead of about or around me

This is what I've noticed this player list does. They just talk about someone and then run them up

[Hu Tao]

This feels like a desperate Klick trying to save the slot by trying to fabricate a case against one of the less-strongly townread players (Thomith) and also try to take suspicion off of Hu Tao as much as possible.

Hu Tao's OMGUS-esque vote against Grovyle supports my theory.

It's so sad that you're likely town

[Hu Tao]

Ftr I believe klick would take that stance on me as town

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

Ftr I believe klick would take that stance on me as town

and what about scum?

[Hu Tao]

He wouldn't come up with it

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

He wouldn't come up with it

that's not explaining what you think he WOULD do.
this is a lazy throwaway response to avoid answering a harder question

[Hu Tao]

I'm scum. Remember? Why do you care so much? Or is this for more of your scum soliloquy

[Thomith]

I'm happy to talk to anyone who is interested in talking to me instead of about or around me

This is what I've noticed this player list does. They just talk about someone and then run them up

I'm scum. Remember? Why do you care so much? Or is this for more of your scum soliloquy

Grovyle is trying to question you rather than just run you up, and you immediately shut them down?

[Hu Tao]

I'm happy to talk to anyone who is interested in talking to me instead of about or around me

This is what I've noticed this player list does. They just talk about someone and then run them up

I'm scum. Remember? Why do you care so much? Or is this for more of your scum soliloquy

Grovyle is trying to question you rather than just run you up, and you immediately shut them down?

Cause I think they are scum

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I'm scum. Remember? Why do you care so much? Or is this for more of your scum soliloquy

I presented a possibility that klick is whiteknighting you, actually. I'm trying to determine that so we don't just chain klick into you in case that's what he wants.

[Thomith]

I'm happy to talk to anyone who is interested in talking to me instead of about or around me

This is what I've noticed this player list does. They just talk about someone and then run them up

I'm scum. Remember? Why do you care so much? Or is this for more of your scum soliloquy

Grovyle is trying to question you rather than just run you up, and you immediately shut them down?

Cause I think they are scum

Is that not extremely hypocritical?

[Hu Tao]

Klick doesn't give me the scum vibe.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

I'm happy to talk to anyone who is interested in talking to me instead of about or around me

This is what I've noticed this player list does. They just talk about someone and then run them up

I'm scum. Remember? Why do you care so much? Or is this for more of your scum soliloquy

Grovyle is trying to question you rather than just run you up, and you immediately shut them down?

ok to be fair I did try to run them up earlier, its more klick's incredulous defense with little reasoning had me change tact.