[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[Lord Gurgi]

Forgetful Mafia

Open set up, but players do not know night actions, only alignments. Each night the player sends a PM with a target to the Mod.

Players:
Role-switcher A
Role-switcher B
Role-switcher C
Vigilante
Serial Killer
Doctor
Role-Blocker
Nexus
Hider
Mafia Role-Blocker
Mafia Doctor
Impotent Mafia (Night ability does nothing)

Order of resolution of night actions:
1. Nexus
2. Role-Blockers
3. Role-Switchers
4. Hider
5. Doctors
6. Kills

I would recommend a day start, it's swingy (and dethy) enough without an extra night. Only people looking for a fun, and short, game should play.

[Lord Gurgi]

That too.

[Lord Gurgi]

Concerning chosen, what if the town no lynches every day to stop the mafia from winning?

[Lord Gurgi]

Why do you believe the scum would always pick the same pairs?

Unless it was randomised the town could probably come up with a couple scenarios and lynch the most likely player. With suitable meta knowledge you could break it.

[Lord Gurgi]

Why do you believe the scum would always pick the same pairs?

Unless it was randomised the town could probably come up with a couple scenarios and lynch the most likely player. With suitable meta knowledge you could break it.

That's WIFOM.

Exactly.

[Lord Gurgi]

How ridiculous would a Tracker Dethy be?

[Lord Gurgi]

Does the watcher knows he's a watcher?

[Lord Gurgi]

No. Sanities are unknown. Fakeclaims are possible. Especially since the tracker tracker will throw a wrench in the works, the random watcher is screwy, and hopefully the watcher is told he is a tracker as well.

[Lord Gurgi]

Dethwing Classic, Tracker Edition

1 Mafia Goon
1 Normal Tracker (gets name of who his target targeted)
1 Random Tracker (gets name of who a random player targeted)
1 anti-Tracker (a.k.a. Watcher) (gets name of who targeted his target)
1 Tracker Tracker (gets name of who his target's target targeted)

Day start, tracker (and watcher) head start.

This should probably be tested in scumchat or IRCmafia a few times.
EDIT: Just like Dethwing Classic, town players do not know which town-aligned role they have.

Nominate

[Lord Gurgi]

Interesting Idea here:

"Not a Democracy Mafia"

Town Aligned:
1 Dictator
7 Town

Mafia:
2 Mafia


The dictator is sole decider of lynch
If the dictator dies the mafia choose a new heir to the throne (cannot be them)

Why the heck would the townies even play?

[Lord Gurgi]

You'll find that the dictator won't care what most of the townies say. You'd have a game of maybe 4 or 5 active players.

[Lord Gurgi]

...What?

[Lord Gurgi]

You'll find that the dictator won't care what most of the townies say. You'd have a game of maybe 4 or 5 active players.

It's like a kingmaker set-up except the mafia choose the next "king" (or dictator in this case) instead of it being decided by a town-aligned kingmaker. Are kingmaker set-ups normally inactive?

Thing is, the dictator isn't subject to good performance standards. The mafia will continue to choose inept players to be dictator, the good players might be listened to, but anyone else will be ignored. This is

the

setup for vendettas.

[Lord Gurgi]

You people do realize that Corruption has been run to completion right...

You do realise that we are talking about Max's idea, right?

[Lord Gurgi]

Senate Mafia

Using Flash Nights/Modified Deep South.
2x Mafia
1x SK/Governor
2x Cops
5x Governors(cannot protect themselves)

Mauled by mass claim.

[Lord Gurgi]

Senate Mafia

Using Flash Nights/Modified Deep South.
2x Mafia
1x SK/Governor
2x Cops
5x Governors(cannot protect themselves)

Mauled by mass claim.

What? you have a lot of symetry.

That's precisely the problem. The SK will start killing the Cops/Mafia and the Mafia will kill the Governors/SK after massclaim. Before this happens, start lynching cops, once the mafia are dead, start killing governors.

[Lord Gurgi]

Knife or Shotgun?

3 Mafia Goons
1 Serial Killer

or

1 Vigilante
8 Vanilla Townies

Other than an SK being nightkill immune, it's plain and simple

Is the vig compulsive?

[Lord Gurgi]

Can I recommend a name-change to "BEEP BEEP BEEP"

[Lord Gurgi]

Unclean Mafia v.2

1 Mafia Godfather
1 Mafia Tracker
1 Mafia Goon
2 Millers (get townie PM)
2 Cops
5 Townies

Night Start

for balance, I predict that the game is about 55% scum win / 45% town win.

Isn't the cop best off not using his role at all? To reduce confusion.

[Lord Gurgi]

If the cop gets a guilty, he has a 1/2 chance of being wrong. If he gets an innocent, he has a 1/7 chance of being wrong.

[Lord Gurgi]

correct, for night 0 each cop gets:
1 Mafia Godfather, 5 Townies, 1 Cop = 6/7 accuracy
1 Mafia Tracker, 1 Mafia Goon, 2 Millers = 1/2 accuracy

And one of said town roles dies. I don't see the cops as having any reason to claim with less than 3 or 4 investigations, and even then, the town will fail at Dethy.

[Lord Gurgi]

vanilla. I think a roleblocker would mostly just make the game more swingy. If there is going to be a tweak, ideally it would produce a less swingy setup that is ever so slightly more balanced towards the town.

Add another goon?

[Lord Gurgi]

Maybe a Lynch? v.2

1x Governor-Godfather
2x Mafia Goons
2x Cops
4x Governors

Lynch anyone who pardons. The more governors stay hidden, the greater cop security. The more lynches that happen, the more information for town.

[Lord Gurgi]

so that was open 96.
Open 97, which was Lovers Mafia, lasted 7 calender days, and was 17 pages.

town won both games.

I think people like quick games.

Is the town win percentage higher on average the quicker a game is?

[Lord Gurgi]

Supposedly Balanced

2 SK's
10 Townies

[Lord Gurgi]

Tread Carefully

4 Mafia Goons
3 PGO's
5 Townies

Or should it be 2 PGO's and 6 Townies?

[Lord Gurgi]

Tread Carefully

4 Mafia Goons
3 PGO's
5 Townies

Or should it be 2 PGO's and 6 Townies?

I can't imagine people wanting to play a game like this. The whole idea that if mafia hits the wrong person they are dead. Also 4 goons in a 12 player games seem a bit high.

Consider that I put more goons in

because

if they hit the wrong person they are dead.

For people who want to speed up the queue, speed up the games, and have fun:

Tread Carefully

4 Mafia Goons (Two Nightkills per night that can be performed by one person)
3 Paranoid Gun Owners
5 Townies

[Lord Gurgi]

You could just say you don't like it.

[Lord Gurgi]

Tread Carefully

4 Mafia Goons (Two Nightkills per night that can be performed by one person)
3 Paranoid Gun Owners
5 Townies

nominate

The only issue is what if scum gets lucky with their two kills and hits town. I still feel that 4 mafia is too many for this set up.
Imagine.
Day 1 PGO lynched
Night 1, two townies killed
Day 2 has 5 players at this point in lynch or lose at this point.

So, the town was bad. The scum were lucky as heck, and now they're in lylo. How is this different from a scheme where this happens day three? More luck for scum and more space to be stupid for town. There's a reason it's called Tread Carefully. The chances of that happening are small.

[Lord Gurgi]

Perhaps because Opens are generally smaller? They also have more information with which to work.

[Lord Gurgi]

Of course you could employ the rule that the mafia only win if all PGOs are dead and they have a majority, or nothing can prevent the same.

EDIT: Since this fits flavour of real mafia.

EDIT AGAIN: Or would it be better to separate the two night kills? I don't think that would actually solve the problem at hand.

[Lord Gurgi]

Perhaps because Opens are generally smaller? They also have more information with which to work.

Perhaps, but controlling for # of players, Opens are still only 83% the length of Mini Normals. I'll go on to older games here in a bit...

::edit:: Medians are closer: 58.8 posts/player vs. 62.4p/p. I am certainly willing to be wrong here.

I don't think 4 fewer posts per player is anything significant.

[Lord Gurgi]

Tread Carefully - Final Version

-Day Start

4 Goons (Two kills per night, can be used by one person)
4 Paranoid Gun Owners
4 Townies

[Lord Gurgi]

3 partial cops (two unblocked partial cops investigating the same person the same night grants both a successful investigation result of either "guilty" or "innocent")

[Lord Gurgi]

I (shudder) think that Weak M.D. is quite biased against the town. If we accept that Basic 12-Player is a balanced setup, a weakdoc is much weaker than a cop/doctor combination, plus this has a godfather and Basic 12-Player doesn't. It might be all right with 14 players and 3 standard goons.

Okay. Who hacked Ether's account? No way the

real

Ether cares about towns.

I like pink ponies.

[Lord Gurgi]

What is the point of the mafia cop, considering all the townies are vanilla anyway?

If the cop were a rolecop that would work.

[Lord Gurgi]

nominate: Lovers Mafia

town won the first one in 16 pages.
scum won the second one in 5 pages.

They talked about adding another townie but i think that would balance the game in town's favor.

Then make the setup:
2 Mafia lovers
2 Town lovers
3 Townies

[Lord Gurgi]

'Twas just an attempt to add half a townie.

[Lord Gurgi]

'Twas just an attempt to add half a townie.

By my guesstimation, each lover is worth about .75 of a townie.

[Lord Gurgi]

Gurgi EC8

8 players:
2 Goons
0-3 Weak Cops (12.5%, 37.5%, 37.5%, 12.5%) (Dies upon investigating a goon)
3-6 Townies

Ether and Xyl helped.

[Lord Gurgi]

It's closer to 0.5 of a townie.

how do you figure? A lover pair gets 2 votes during each day they are alive, and raise the # necessary to lynch, diluting the scum's voting block.

I didn't account for the fact that they're also masons.

Read: Gurgi was more right than Xyl.

[Lord Gurgi]

Gurgi EC8

8 players:
2 Goons
0-3 Weak Cops (12.5%, 37.5%, 37.5%, 12.5%) (Dies upon investigating a goon)
3-6 Townies

Ether and Xyl helped.

[Lord Gurgi]

I dunno if this had been done before.

iGuard

2 Mafia
5 Bodyguards
1 Doctor

Daystart

Notes: If Doctor claims, bodyguards have to decide whether or not to bodyguard him - if too many bodyguard him, then the Mafia could score multiple kills - if no one, then the doctor is killed.

If the Doctor doesn't claim, then the bodyguards would want to bodyguard the better players (unless they believe no one alive's better than them). Not only do good players get to stay alive, there's a similar dilemna as above.

Comments?

Town can best protect the Doctor by circle protecting, though I don't think it's game breaking, it (or some similar mechanism) would likely be used to prevent the town from having multiple Bodyguards die in any given night cycle.

Interesting idea though.

Nominate iGuard

Then scum can shoot themselves to cause WIFOM. The person that the bodyguard guarded is not necessarily town.

[Lord Gurgi]

Wrong account again!

[Lord Gurgi]

In setups with alignment change, always specify whether players should play to their current or their expected final win condition.

???

expected final, always.

Nah, they should play to whichever one they feel like. If they feel like playing the odds, let them.

[Lord Gurgi]

In setups with alignment change, always specify whether players should play to their current or their expected final win condition.

???

expected final, always.

Nah, they should play to whichever one they feel like. If they feel like playing the odds, let them.

That'd be expected final, with the expectation that their win condition won't change, no?

It's whatever they feel like, based upon the players, their own skill, their notoriety, and their ego.