[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[Adel]

Dethwing Classic, Tracker Edition

1 Mafia Goon
1 Normal Tracker (gets name of who his target targeted)
1 Random Tracker (gets name of who a random player targeted)
1 anti-Tracker (a.k.a. Watcher) (gets name of who targeted his target)
1 Tracker Tracker (gets name of who his target's target targeted)

Day start, tracker (and watcher) head start.

This should probably be tested in scumchat or IRCmafia a few times.
EDIT: Just like Dethwing Classic, town players do not know which town-aligned role they have.

[Adel]

seee my edit in the original post.

wiki article on Dethy: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Dethy

[Adel]

How ridiculous would a Tracker Dethy be?

ridiculous enough to get Mr. Flay to post:

I reaaaaaaaallly don't like adding more Dethy Variants to the Open Game rotation. More times than not, they just end up becoming logic puzzles, rather than Mafia games.

and it is pretty much not mafia.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

[Adel]

Night Watch Mafia

3 Mafia Goons
1 Role Cop (detects Goons as "vanilla")
2 Watchers
1 Hider
5 Vanilla townies

Night Start

[Adel]

Hangman

1 Lyncher A
1 Lynchee A
1 Lyncher B
1 Lynchee B
8 Vanilla Townies

what is the win condition for the townies?
does the game end as soon as a lynchee is lynched?

[Adel]

Nominate: Night Watch

So I know next time, if I like multiple setups, do I have to nominate them in separate posts?

no you don't. There isn't much of a formal process for getting setups accepted. We just nominate them to bring them to Thesp's attention.

[Adel]

¹⁴

C

2 vanilla scum (50% chance of being mafia, 50% chance of being werewolves)
1 Cop (detects mafia)
1 Seer (detects werewolves)
3 Townies

Day start

[Adel]

Adel: So would the seer be useless if both scum were randomly mafia?

both scum are always the same type of scum. So either the Seer or the Cop will be unable to get a "guilty" result.

[Adel]

Nominate Carbon-14

Why is it called that?

It is a play on "C7", radioactive decay, and the odds of it getting accepted into the open queue.. If I explained it further, it wouldn't be funny, if it ever was.

Third Carbon-14

Good work Adel.

thanks!

[Adel]

Would scum flip as "Mafia" / "Werewolf" or as "Scum"?

Sim - Godfather means NK-Immune there, right?

originally I thought "mafia" or "werewolf", which I think is the correct answer for balance reasons in a 7 player game, I think that a set-up with more townies would be interesting to play with "scum" as the death-scene reveal.

[Adel]

I like adels idea, with a possible addition:

50% chance of each player being each but they are partners no matter what

so there is a 25% chance a role is useless

the entire point behind the setup, as I imagined it, was for there to be a way for a naive cop to know that he is naive without the other cop dying.

[Adel]

Almost Breakable by Mass Claim

3 Mafia Goons
1 SK
3 Roleblockers
2 Watchers
4 Vanilla Townies

daystart

[Adel]

There definately needs to be some kind of rule stopping the scum from being forced into faking Daytalk/Pregame talk. The only way I can really think to stop that though is disallowing discussion of it altogether.

I think the best solution is probably to treat the daytalk threads like role PMs. If you get specific (like "between post 172 and 173 of the game my lover said that xTomx is probably scum") you get modkilled.

[Adel]

I expect for some people to attack this idea without giving it any thought, but here it is. (Actually, it's probably been thought of already):

Donut Shop Mafia
9 Cops
3 Mafia

obviously breakable by circular targeting

day 1: no lynch, each player is directed (in a circle) to target one other player so that there is no overlap of cop investigations.
night 1: one cop is nk'd, leaving 3 goons and 8 cops.
day 2: each player announces the results of the previous night's investigations. At this point at least one goon will be outed by a guilty investigation from a player who is proven innocent by series of innocent investigation results, like this:

player 1 -> got an innocent result for -> player 2 -> got an innocent result for -> player 3 -> got a guilty result for -> player 4 -> got an innocent result for -> player 5 -> got an innocent result for -> player 6 -> got a guilty result for -> player 7 -> got an innocent result for -> player 8 -> died during the night, proven innocent -> player 9 -> got an innocent result for -> player 10 -> got an innocent result for -> player 11 -> got an innocent result for -> player 1.

in this example player 4 is certainly scum, and another night of investigation will definitely out another goon.

[Adel]

Hangman

1 Lyncher A
1 Lynchee A
1 Lyncher B
1 Lynchee B
8 Vanilla Townies

Not Mafia.

It fits the criterion of informed minority v. uninformed majority. Is too mafia.

Mafia Hangman

3 Mafia lynchers (must lynch all lynchees to win, can talk at night, standard mafia NK, and know who the lynchees are)
4 Lynchees (Get Vanilla townie role PM)
5 Vanilla Townies.

[Adel]

I can't think of a name for this setup that is both amusing and inoffensive Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Godfather/Treacherous Lover (doesn't die if his lover dies)
2 Lover Cops
1 Lover Cop in love with Godfather (dies if the godfather dies)
n Townies

Night Start

Day Start w/ Cop head Start

Nominate

I changed it to daystart to prevent the Godfather from killing off his "lover" before the game even starts.

I think 5 townies is the correct number.

[Adel]

Lover Mafia v2:
2 lover mafia
5 townies

With a night where they kill a townie.

---

ps: This should be the new newbie setup
pps: damn im a baller.

Polygamist Mafia 2.0

Can we avoid making 2.0 until 1.0 runs and can be critiqued effectively?

~~~

Here is another of my setups that was nominated and forgotten:

Mayo Clinic Mafia

2 Mafia Doctors
1 Mafia Goon
6 Doctors
2 Compulsive Vigs
1 Compulsive Sk

Looks like fun, but you might tone down the number of Docs?

2 Mafia Docs will circle protect each night and are thus a NK immune pair until one gets lynched. Don't know if that was by design.

Also how does an early Massclaim effect the Compuslive Killers. Seems a decent town strat would be to have the vigs claim D1 so some Docs can protect them. This also give a 1/3 chance of knowing the SK as Compulsive Vig would be his likely safe claim.

What about removing the SK, two protown Docs and a Mafia Doc?

Each doc protect only protects against a single NK attempt. With 4 NKs a night a single player will need double protection to prevent a nk in many cases. I don't see a massclaim really resolving anything until at least the third day.

Looks like fun; I'll

Nominate: Mayo Clinic

(or whatever the name ends up being)

.

[Adel]

you are a baller, if only you were a little bit taller...

[Adel]

Friends and Enemies and Enemies and That Other Guy

2 Mafia
2 Werewolves
2 Masons
1 Backup Mason (becomes mason upon death of either mason, isn't informed of being backup, i.e. initially gets a vanilla PM)
5 Vanilla Townies

nominate

[Adel]

if I tossed in a tracker would that help you feel better about it?

2 Mafia Doctors
1 Mafia Goon
6 Doctors
2 Compulsive Vigs
1 Compulsive Sk
1 Tracker

Day Start

notes:
~ each doctor protects against a single NK, and can not self-protect.
~ mafia doctors can also perform the mafia's NK
~ The Sk in Nk immune
~ "Compulsive" means that the Vigs and Sk must submit a kill each night, failure to submit a kill results in them targeting a random player, possibly resulting in them killing themselves (the SK is not immune to his own NK)

[Adel]

I think you are right about 1 mafia doc and 2 goons being better than 2 mafia docs and 1 goon.

Mayo Clinic

1 Mafia Doctor
2 Mafia Goons
1 Compulsive Sk
2 Compulsive Vigs
6 Doctors

Day Start

notes:
~ each doctor protects against a single NK, and can not self-protect.
~ mafia doctor can also perform the mafia's NK
~ The Sk in Nk immune
~ "Compulsive" means that the Vigs and Sk must submit a kill each night, and failure to submit a kill results in them targeting a random player, possibly resulting in them killing themselves (the SK is not immune to his own NK)

I have a feeling a lot of no kills might happen.

It is hard to die at the Mayo Clinic

[Adel]

Survivor-rama

1 Mafia Godfather
1 Mafia roleblocker
6 Survivors

who can the roleblocker possibly block?

[Adel]

Unclean Mafia

2 Goons (can daytalk and commit Nk)
1 Traitor (investigates as "innocent" and can not commit Nk)
2 Millers (investigates as "guilty")
2 Cops
5 Townies

Night Start

Goons do not know who the Traitor is, but the traitor knows who the Goons are. The Goons and the Traitor share alignment.

[Adel]

Bah I just lost a long post to the CPU Quota Fairy.

Basically I'm afraid but not sure Unclean will be broken by a massclaim. In short the Miller's will likely claim at game start, this will force scum to claim a single false Miller as it's by far the optimal strategy. I'm not sure what the optimal Cop strategy is, but the town may be better off whith the cops claiming early, forcing the other scum partner to counter a cop claim or have two confirmed and replicating innocents walking around.

Anyway, would it work out better if you removed one or two townies from the mix?
What about instead of two cops, everyone gets a single use Night 0 investigation?

Traitor has a solid fake cop-claim, goons have daytalking, and cop investigations will not produce confirmed innocents. I don't think a massclaim would break it.

[Adel]

I see where the confusion is from -- the traitor must be lynched in order for the town to win. The win conditions I write are always alignment-based, i.e. "Town players win when all living players are town-aligned."

The Traitor is the most common role with a pro-Mafia alignment that is not actually in the Mafia family. There are several variations of this role.

Most commonly the Traitor knows who is in the Mafia, but the Mafia do not know who the Traitor is. The Traitor works, through his or her vote, to keep the Mafia from getting lynched.

Another variation is the Mafia Spy (a.k.a. Devil). This version does not know who is in the Mafia, but can investigate once each night to look for Cops or other power roles, that he can then try to expose during the day.

In a third variation, sometimes used in conjunction with one of the others, the Mafia can choose at any time in the game to recruit their Traitor. Before this time, the Traitor appears innocent to Cops, and/or has investigative abilities. Once recruited, the Traitor becomes a normal Mafia Goon.

The version of Traitor I am using is a little different: he knows who the goons are, investigates as "innocent", and wins with the mafia. The town must also lynch him in order to win, since he shares alignment with the mafia.

[Adel]

Ah, that seems much more balanced then. He's basically a Godfather that his scummates do not know about, and cannot communicate with.

and he can't kill. Should he have a different name to avoid confusion?
"Mafia Fairy Godmother" or something?

[Adel]

Mafia Fanboy

Sold!

[Adel]

ok, make the millers bastard-mod millers who get vanilla townie role PMs. That would make it extra Unclean.

[Adel]

Unclean Mafia v.2

1 Mafia Godfather
1 Mafia Tracker
1 Mafia Goon
2 Millers (get townie PM)
2 Cops
5 Townies

Night Start

[Adel]

Unclean Mafia v.2

1 Mafia Godfather
1 Mafia Tracker
1 Mafia Goon
2 Millers (get townie PM)
2 Cops
5 Townies

Night Start

for balance, I predict that the game is about 55% scum win / 45% town win.

[Adel]

nope.

[Adel]

my understanding is that the default godfather is just a goon who is immune to cop investigations.

[Adel]

correct, for night 0 each cop gets:
1 Mafia Godfather, 5 Townies, 1 Cop = 6/7 accuracy
1 Mafia Tracker, 1 Mafia Goon, 2 Millers = 1/2 accuracy

[Adel]

but the townie lynched day 1 may be a miller, greatly increasing the informational value of a "guilty" investigation result. If both cops make it to day 3 (with a total of 4 investigations each), then the town should win pretty easily. If the scum manage to nk a cop before then, then the scum will have a pretty good chance at winning.

So the setup is swingy, depending upon when miller and cop roles are revealed, when cops die, and when cops reveal investigation results. On the other hand, this is a game with two cops where players can't simply play "follow the cop" and expect to win. Town success will depend upon keeping cops hidden and unclaimed for as long as possible, and scum success will depend upon killing cops and fake-claiming successfully.

[Adel]

vanilla. I think a roleblocker would mostly just make the game more swingy. If there is going to be a tweak, ideally it would produce a less swingy setup that is ever so slightly more balanced towards the town.

[Adel]

in place of the mafia tracker? that may work.

[Adel]

Unclean Mafia v.3

1 Mafia Godfather
1 Mafia Watcher
1 Mafia Goon
2 Millers (get vanilla townie PM)
2 Cops
5 Townies

Cop Headstart


this is my final draft. yes, the godfather investigates as "innocent" and the Millers do not know they are Millers. N0 the cops get to investigate, but the Mafia Watcher does not get to watch anyone, and the Mafia do not get to kill anyone.

[Adel]

Nominate Carbon-14

for another run. Its a sweet setup.

second

what an odd run: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0
21 calender days and six pages.

[Adel]

so that was open 96.
Open 97, which was Lovers Mafia, lasted 7 calender days, and was 17 pages.

town won both games.

I think people like quick games.

[Adel]

Is the town win percentage higher on average the quicker a game is?

once you remove outliers like horribly failed scum gambits, and self-outing scum, nope. My feeling is that for 12 player games, ~20 pages is about the optimal length for town success. Less then that and there isn't enough information for an informed day 2 lynch, and more then that and rereading becomes too difficult, and people start forgetting what the facts of the case are. I'm not sure about 7 player games, since I haven't seen nearly as many.


I think that the better the signal:noise ratio, the better the odds of the town winning, and games are much shorter when they are free of spammy posts and wall of words battles and other forms of typing contests.

[Adel]

Or should it be 2 PGO's and 6 Townies?

Nah, just make it bloody and swingy and quick. Give the mafia two kills, and a single member of the mafia can perform both kills each night. That way only 1 Goon can die each night, and it prevents the PGOs from claiming before endgame. Did I mention that it would make the game quicker? A lot of people like quick games. This would be a 12 player game that could be in lynch-or-lose on day 2, but only if the mafia played well and got lucky. It would take three or four days for the town to win, in most cases.

[Adel]

Tread Carefully

4 Mafia Goons (Two Nightkills per night that can be performed by one person)
3 Paranoid Gun Owners
5 Townies

nominate

Question: Is the purpose of the Open Game Queue to move things along as fast as possible?

Be honest, please; I see an awful lot of

terrible

setups here those primary advantage seems to be that they can be played quickly, either to get around the months-long-game syndrome or the year-long-mod-queue in Mini Normal.

how about some constructive criticism of specific set ups? Just throwing rocks in our general direction isn't very productive.

[Adel]

Day 1 townie lynched
Night 1 PGO and townie killed -> goon killed
Day 2 goon lynched.
Night 2 PGO and townie killed -> goon killed
Day 3 opens with 2 townies and 1 PGO and 1 goon: nolynch + nk coin flip

Day 1 townie lynched
Night 1 PGO and townie killed -> goon killed
Day 2 townie lynched.
Night 2 PGO and townie killed -> goon killed
Day 3 opens with 1 townie and 1 PGO and 2 Goons: mafia win

Day 1 townie lynched
Night 1 PGO and PGO killed -> goon killed
Day 2 townie lynched.
Night 2 PGO and townie killed -> goon killed
Day 3 opens with 2 townies and 2 goons

~~~
1/3 of the players are scum on day 1.
followng a townie lynch day 1:
if pgo is targeted night 1 then day 2 opens with 3/8 players being scum: all 5 townies would have to agree on their lynch target or else the scum would have to buss their own for the town to lynch correctly.
if PGO is not targeted night 1 then day 2 opens with 4/9 players being scum: all 5 townies would have to agree on their lynch target or else the scum would have to buss their own for the town to lynch correctly.

i am starting to think that it is a little unbalanced towards scum:
would 4 goons: 4 PGO: 4 townie be better?

I like the 4 goons, but I think farside may be right, and 3 goons, 3 PGO, and 5 townies (11 players) is more balanced.

[Adel]

I'm not throwing rocks, I genuinely want to know if people believe in the setups they nominate. I've commented on a few genuinely bad setups, but I don't read this thread very often, because most Open Games don't appeal to me. When I

do

come here, I see a lot of 5-9 player games with lots of killing roles, Lovers, and other ways to increase the body count/speed. New C9 is the standout exception.

Maybe I'm selectively reading. Maybe I'm missing something. That's why I asked. But it doesn't seem like a coincidence to me that of the first page of Little Italy, completed Mini Normals have an average length of 749 posts, while Open Games have an average length of less than 479 posts.

small short and violent, like the Dethy and Texas justice setups that have a long history of being run?

I very genuinely believe in the setups I nominate, and work on with other people in this thread,

I value setups that will yield games that can be completed in less than 3 months. My first setup accepted was Big Love, which ended up being like 8 months and 100+ pages with the average player getting replaced over 2 times (all numbers are approximate and from memory) -- that was not an optimal result.

Who is the audience of Open Games? What are they looking for in games?

I generally try to submit games that are quick and interesting for the people that play them. Quick games have far less player attrition. Look through the Open Queue sign-up thread and see how quickly the small and violent games fill up. From what I can tell, players don't mind a swingy game if the time commitment to the game is reasonably short. I know players like short & violent games.

Are there setups you would play in that aren't being run?

I guess I don't understand why you are criticizing setups in a format you do not appreciate. I don't like poetry, but I don't spend much time telling poets that I don't like their work because it is short and written in verse.

Again, I definitely welcome your constructive criticism of specific setups, it does take work to place a good finish on a raw idea. If we tried to limit people's contributions in this thread to perfect setups that are fully formed and finished, then I think that one of the primary benefits of this thread would be lost. This thread serves a valuable role as an open laboratory for the development and balancing of setups.

[Adel]

I wanted to play with the mechanics of being a mason but not knowing whether your partner was town or not, even if the Cop investigated. And if you don't put in the non-masoned scum, would the Cop have too easy a time of weeding the scum out? Hmm. Maybe not. Am not sure. Other thoughts? Anyone?

your setup is complicated, and time consuming to evaluate. I'll have to draw it out when I have time to to get a better feel for it.

[Adel]

Partial Pie

1 mafia roleblocker
1 mafia goon
3 partial cops (two unblocked partial cops investigating the same person the same night grants both a successful investigation result of either "guilty" or "innocent")
1 doctor
1 townie

[Adel]

how would a mass claim work? walk me through how it would be broken...

[Adel]

thanks. that ruins the name though...

1 mafia roleblocker
1 mafia goon
3 partial cops (two unblocked partial cops investigating the same person the same night grants both a successful investigation result of either "guilty" or "innocent")
2 townies

[Adel]

Question: Is the purpose of the Open Game Queue to move things along as fast as possible?

Be honest, please; I see an awful lot of

terrible

setups here those primary advantage seems to be that they can be played quickly, either to get around the months-long-game syndrome or the year-long-mod-queue in Mini Normal.

I thought about this some more. I think that there is just a greater tolerance for unbalanced setups in open games. You knew how unbalanced it is before you joined it, and if you didn't you only have yourself to blame. Swingy violence is enjoyed by many players who also like quick games.

I wonder how the new mod attrition rate in Open Games compares with Mini-normals.

[Adel]

I'm also taking my first shot at making open setups.

Wouldn't You Like To Know? Mafia

(2) Miller-Masons
(2) Mafia-Masons
(2) Masons: 1 mafia, 1 town
(1) Cop
(1) Mafioso
(4) Vanilla Townies

Day Start?
All town-aligned masons get a normal mason PM - millers aren't told their status, though do flip town on death.
Of the scum, only mason-scum can night talk, as can all mason pairs. Before the first day starts the scum are randomly numbered 1-4 and the scum and the highest number alive sends in the NK.

So, does this get pwned by massclaim or not? Constructive criticism? Like I said, I'm a bit of a novice at this.

Er, any comments?

I see 12 player game with 4 mafia member. 4 is too many. 3 is a good number with a 12 player game. 1 cop with 2 millers. Hmmm adel how about the stats on this game. Something feels off to me.

I was thinking that if the masons start to claim the mafia-masons will either claim, and the town knows that 3/6 of the claimed masons are town and that 5/6 will show up scum to cop investigation, and the town might start trying to knock them off and figuring out which is scum using flip information. Or the mafia masons claim vanilla (or cop and vanilla?) and there'll be 2 or 3 out of 6 or 7 of those claiming vanilla actually mafia. I wanted to play with the mechanics of being a mason but not knowing whether your partner was town or not, even if the Cop investigated. And if you don't put in the non-masoned scum, would the Cop have too easy a time of weeding the scum out? Hmm. Maybe not. Am not sure. Other thoughts? Anyone?

Basically you have a 4:8 mountianous setup if the cop doesn't claim with a list of proven innocents.
The Mafia-masons have no reason to claim mason, which leaves the remaining townie-masons knowing that there is a 50% that their mason partner is scum.

To balance it you would need to knock the number of scum down to 3, and even them a lone handicapped cop and one scum stuck in a mason pair isn't enough to balance the setup.

The one idea you have that I think is interesting is the unconfirmed mason-miller combo.

I think this is pretty close to your idea, and is fairly balanced:

(1) Mafia Godfather
(1) Mafia Framer (targeted player gives "guilty" investigation result)
(2) Miller-Masons (unconfirmed, flip as "townie", investigate as "guilty")
(2) Masons: 1 mafia, 1 town
(2) Cops
(4) Vanilla Townies

I don't think that a Mason mass-claim on day 1 would break the game, and I just now realized how well the presence of a Mafia Framer prevents massclaims.

[Adel]

Cops and Docs

1 Godfather (investigates as "innocent")
2 Mafia Goons
1 Sk (investigates as "innocent")
1 Unlicensed Doctor (investigates as "guilty", normal doctor role reveal, can't successfully protect a cop)
1 Doctor
1 Cop
1 Macho Cop (doctor protection fails)
4 Vanilla Townies

Cop Headstart

[Adel]

yes, the macho C and unL Doc know that they are.

[Adel]

nominate: Lovers Mafia

town won the first one in 16 pages.
scum won the second one in 5 pages.

[Adel]

that takes a rather random setup and makes it even more swingy.

I like Lovers Mafia the way it is because it is short and simple variation of mafia that doesn't require as much of a time commitment.

The setup rewards all players for trying to appear as pro-town as possible.

It goes directly from the random-voting stage to a balanced endgame phase.

There can be no scum bussing, so analysis of voting patterns is more fruitful.

There is no NK-wifom, or players trying to dodge the nk.

[Adel]

It's closer to 0.5 of a townie.

how do you figure? A lover pair gets 2 votes during each day they are alive, and raise the # necessary to lynch, diluting the scum's voting block.

[Adel]

Paris Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
2 Mime Goons (Both mimes must die by lynching in order for the Mime Goons to win -- they share a NK)
2 Vigs
2 Cops
2 Townies

[Adel]

shaft.ed was correct. see http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... _headstart

(Both mimes must die by lynching in order for the Mime Goons to win -- they share a NK)

I don't know if I understand. They are Jester Masons with a NK?

actually, they are mimes. mimes are different from Jesters: they are masons with each other, win with each other, and share a NK.

You wouldn't want to be killed by a mime. It is a silent but deadly thing.

[Adel]

They're paired Jesters, though. Let's call a spade a spade...

there are differences though...

Jester are annoying:


Mimes are

scary

.

[Adel]

They're paired Jesters, though. Let's call a spade a spade...

to be honest, I stole the idea from here.

in an open game, the mafia and the vigs and the cops would know that the Mimes are in the game, and could adapt.

[Adel]

Paris Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
2 Mime Goons (Both mimes must die by lynching in order for the Mime Goons to win -- they share a NK)
2 Vigs
2 Cops
2 Townies

I like the mime idea. Can we do something so that a) all the town isn't destroyed in a bloodbath and b) that is acheived without making it impossible for the 2 Goons and easy for the 2 mimes.

What about?:
2 Mafia
2 Mimes
1 SK
1 Cop (finds mafia)
1 Frenchy (finds mimes)
1 Watcher
1 Bodyguard
X townies (3-5)

Also what happens to mime #2 if mime#1 is NK'd. You then have a player with no possible win condition. Does he morph into a survivor? a SK?

He turns into Gimbo. With no win condition, exists only to annoy and distract the other players for his own amusement.


I see your point about it being almost impossible for the mafia goons to win.

How about:

Paris Mafia

3 Mafia Goons
2 Mime Goons (Both mimes must die by lynching in order for the Mime Goons to win -- they share a NK)
2 Vigs
2 Cops
4 Townies

I like it being impossible for Mime #2 to win if Mime #1 is nk'd. He will still have a vote, a nk, be confirmed non-scum (unless he is counterclaimed) but he won't have a reason to play....


... unless he has developed a grudge against another player during the course of the game. If a mime is nk'd, suddenly a major part of the game will be a contest of scum vs. town to motivate the crying mime to help them win.

The role may help games remain civil. You never know if that immature jerk you are fighting with will turn out to be an survivor-mime whose only reason remaining for playing is to NK

you

.

By being full of killing roles, the set up will make the game go quickly by. I expect that mimes could get really old really fast, and I'd hate for 7+ people to be stuck playing in a year long game ruined early on by those damn mimes.

[Adel]

Paris Mafia

3 Mafia Goons
2 Mime Goons (Both mimes must die by lynching in order for the Mime Goons to win -- they share a NK)
2 Vigs
2 Cops
4 Townies

I nominate this, i would actually play it. (whether or not anyone agrees to the changes i would like):
I think Mime Goon victory should cause the other players to lose.
Mime Goons should probably die once they've wiffed their win condition.. too many things could go wrong with a limbo player.

After thinking about it for a few days, I agree.

Paris Mafia

3 Mafia Goons
2 Mimes (investigate as "innocent", share a nk)
2 Vigs
2 Cops
4 Townies

Day start.

If both Mimes die by lynching, both the mafia and the town lose. If a Mime is killed by NK the other one suicides.

[Adel]

yes, sorry

[Adel]

reading the mime game I agree with shaft. I think it needs a few more tweaks for it to be balanced.

Any suggestions?

[Adel]

Why do the Mimes investigate as Innocent? Wouldn't that hinder their chances of getting lynched?

What would making them both Roleblockers do to the balance? It kinda fits with the "Mimes are so *(^%^$*& annoying" flavor of the game...

I think RB is much better than NK.

The mimes investigate as innocent so that the cops will not lose for correct play (lynching a person they have a guilty on).

[Adel]

ok let me try this again....

Paris Mafia

3 Mafia Goons
1 RB Mime
1 Jailkeeper Mime
2 Vigs
2 Cops
4 Townies

Day start.

Mimes investigate as "Innocent". If both Mimes die by lynching, both the mafia and the town lose. If a Mime is killed by NK the other one suicides. If either mime is still alive after the death of the last mafia goon, the mimes lose.

[Adel]

I've been working under the assumption that any decent player can get herself lynched pretty easily.

I am certain that mimes should either investigate as

guilty

innocent

, or not have a win condition that is mutually exclusive with the town's.

As for the mime role sucking because it would be hard to win, the fun should come from being able to play with a completely opposite objective from other games.

The reason I was sticking with the vigs is that I thought it was important for the town to take out the mimes. On second thought, I think that being able to win simply by eliminating the mafia players should be enough for the town, So the game would end either ^1.when both mimes have been lynched (mime win), or ^2.once all of the mafia are dead (town win), or ^3. when only mafia players are left alive (mafia win).

That makes it a much simpler game, which looks more elegant to me.

...

Paris Mafia

2 Mafia Lovers (Paris is the city of love, after all)
1 Mafia Goon
2 Mimes
2 Watchers (Tourists)
4 Townies

Day start.

Mimes investigate as "Innocent". If both Mimes die by lynching, both the mafia and the town lose. If a Mime is killed by NK the other one suicides. If either mime is still alive after the death of the last mafia goon, the mimes lose.

[Adel]

Thanks, but I'm having second thoughts. I forgot that I wanted more killing roles to speed up the game. I'm worried about it turning into a lurkerfest thanks to the mimes.

[Adel]

nominate

Mr. Flay's Paris mafia with or without joint roleblock

ditto (I won't join it from the beginning, but it is likely that I will eventually end up replacing some player that needs replacing)

[Adel]

Big Small Town

2 East Side Mafia Goons (know each other, share 1 kill)
2 West Side Mafia Goons (know each other, share 1 kill)
2 Downtown Mafia Goons (know each other and Godfather, share 1 kill with each other and Godfather)
1 Downtown Godfather (knows Downtown Goons and shares 1 kill with them)
1 East Side Cop
1 East Side Doctor (protects against 1 kill)
3 East Side Townies
1 West Side Tracker
1 West Side Cop
3 West Side Townies
1 Downtown Doctor (protects against 1 kill)
1 Downtown Jailkeeper (blocks target and protects from all kills)
7 Downtown Townies

Day Start

Each player knows what part of town each other player lives on. When the mafia controls 2 out of the three areas, the mafia wins. If the mafia is eliminated from 2 out of the three areas, the town wins. Any player with a role can target any other player from any area. Players can only vote for another player who lives on their side of town. Each Day phase ends when two out of the three areas have reached a lynch (with the third area being treated as a deadline lynch) or when the deadline is reached.

[Adel]

Cross kills. They don't know each other.

exactly. I probably should've organized it more like:

Big Small Town

2 East Side Mafia Goons (know each other, share 1 kill)
1 East Side Cop
1 East Side Doctor (protects against 1 kill)
3 East Side Townies

2 West Side Mafia Goons (know each other, share 1 kill)
1 West Side Tracker
1 West Side Cop
3 West Side Townies

2 Downtown Mafia Goons (know each other and Godfather, share 1 kill with each other and Godfather)
1 Downtown Godfather (knows Downtown Goons and shares 1 kill with them)
1 Downtown Doctor (protects against 1 kill)
1 Downtown Jailkeeper (blocks target and protects from all kills)
7 Downtown Townies

Day Start

Each player knows what part of town each other player lives on. When the mafia controls 2 out of the three areas, the mafia wins. If the mafia is eliminated from 2 out of the three areas, the town wins. Any player with a role can target any other player from any area. Players can only vote for another player who lives on their side of town. Each Day phase ends when two out of the three areas have reached a lynch (with the third area being treated as a deadline lynch) or when the deadline is reached.

[Adel]

Mr. and Ms. Smith
Mr. Smith (SK) (nk-immune)
Mrs. Smith (SK) (nk-immune)
1 Watcher
x townies

Daystart

x = number of townies necessary to balance setup. x = 6?

Mr. and Mrs. Smith are SKs, with the win condition "you win if you are the last player alive". If one ever targets the other, they get a qt thread to use for the rest of the period of night, and each following period of night, and their win conditions are changed to read "you win if either you or your spouse outlives the entire town"

[Adel]

In setups with alignment change, always specify whether players should play to their current or their expected final win condition.

???

expected final, always.

[Adel]

new definition for "swingy": similar to "Bang Bang Boom Mafia"

[Adel]

could you make the RB and Doc protect team abilities, and the scum team can only commit two actions per night (choice of NK, RB, or Doc) regardless of who is still alive? That would make it a little less swingy, and with the doc self protect, make the scum team a little bit more resilient. I think it would make for an interesting game where the scum team may choose NOT to commit nks on some nights.

[Adel]

Bang Bang Boom Mafia

2 Mafia; group abilities: kill, roleblock, protect; may use two of three group abilities on any given night

1 Bomb (killer dies if they are NK'd; this is a passive ability and cannot be blocked)
2 Vengeful Townies (get a vengeful kill during the next night if they are lynched, this kill can be protected by the doctor, but can not be blocked)
2 Vigilantes
4 Vanilla Townies

Night start

Edited to what I think makes it balanced.

I want to allow the mafia to be able to protect any player against the vengeful kill. That would allow the scum to play WIFOM games with the directed vengeful kill.

I am a little worried about a day 1 massclaim + directed vengeful and vig kills breaking the setup.

what do you think?

[Adel]

I thought x had to be >= 7

there is a very good chance that 7 is more balanced than 6. There is even a chance that 8 is more balanced than 6 or 7. Those two nks could really chew though the townies quickly.

[Adel]

Super Classic Newbie Game Setup Remix

2 Mafia Goons
1 Addictive Cop
1 Doctor
3 Townies

daystart

Addictive Cop

- You may investigate any player at night in order to learn if they are scum via an inocent or guilty read. You know that you are sane but if you are targeted by a doc your results for that night could be wrongly influenced.You win with the town when all scum are elimnated. Good luck.

Mod Notes -
if Cop is protected from a kill, his result will be paranoia
if Cop is protected and not targeted for a kill, his result will be naive

Inspiration: CEScum rules!
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 72#1363572