Mafia 97 - Day Night Mafia, Game Over

[saberwolf]

hi ppls, this is saberwolf replacing wiirdo.

please give me time to catch up, as I haven't had much internet time, and I will do my best to contribute to this game, although I'm sure you'll agree that someone who's been playing all through the game will remmeber every detail better than someone who joins halfway through and skims through the pages. However, I will do my very best to do my part in this game and get us on the right track.

[saberwolf]

I like toast

anyways, I've read the first 3 pages, will catch up more later

[saberwolf]

note to self: two SW's in this game, ppl please just call me saber

catching up in order, so i may appear redundant with my post:

page 1 and 2: lots of attacks on konowa for his early bandwagoning, but his meta shows that is typical of him, and can't really be used as a tell. BC seems to be taking a lot of heat as well, but can't read much out of it yet.

page 3 : a lot of idiots bickering back and forth, nothing to really go on.

page 4: I agree with kise on post 80 about nhammen IIOAing, BC is starting to appear scummy...other than that, nothing sticking out that needs discussing.

page 5: Fuck, I'm starting to lose my attention span.... I'll reread that later, I got nothing out of it the first time over.

page 6: noticing the same people talking, a lot of people inactive [lurkers?] MM, CB, and BC are my main suspects, SW is looking townie

page 7: looker's random vote for wiirdo/me is suspicious. Confrontations about misquote and wrong posts and miscontorted sayings...oh my.

page 8: By now I'm feeling nhammen as pro-town. He is very investigative, and seems to be doing his best to scumhunt. kudos to you. There's a big scrap between BC and MM. I don't want to say either is scum, I think it's two townies caught in a scrap, and I do think MM is tunnelling, but if I were to guess which one is scum if one was, I'd say MM

page 9: despite me likeing BC more than MM, i actually like post 218 attacking BC by MM, finally MM tries to put some logical casings together. However 219 was just as good, and I'm once again stuck, wondering if we have a scum, or two townies locked in battle. At this point I'd like to say I highly doubt that both BC and MM are scumbuddies, or at least from the same team [according to the theory that there may be more than one team of scum]

page 10: Nhammen is becoming more and more pro-town by the post. I like him a lot. Although I'm starting to sympathise with MM now. The pressure is heavily on him right now, and it's letting scum sit back and relax. If he is indeed scum we'll see him crack soon, otherwise we should maybe switch views temporarily for the time being, see what else comes up. Meant to do this a while back but:

IGMEOY: BC, MM

I can't fathom how MM can be so ignorant in his posting...just seems to ignore everyone and continue onward as best as he can...wouldn't scum be more worried and overzealiously defending themselves like BC was? I know I'm flipflopping, but mind you, I'm trying to catch up on 16 pages in a single post. Awwww, SW, you disappointed me with post 241...what happened to conservative vote? I don't think your vote held enough positive backing for someone as conservative as you, although it still held some good points...nothing scummy about it though. If you switch platypus with reckoner, i'd agree with your town/scummy vibes. Finally, people are starting to see that the MM/CB is getting nowhere...wonder what will happen now?

page 11: I'd like to start off with a random thought...since the game is called DAY NIGHT MAFIA, can't we assume there are two teams of scum? a team of day mafia and a team of night mafia? I'll comment more on this later after seeing what the NK scene is like at the end of the day...also, if there are two teams of scum, would that mean there's the possibility of double the amount of power roles to compensate for this? Anyways, back to analyzing...I disagree with Kise's post 271...CJ has been off the rader for a long time, and is nowhere close to being lynched yet...no reason for scum to quit. Opps, to clarify, I mean that kise's suggestion [which i think he himself disbeleives] is a stretch. Nothing else stands out.

page 12: I don't like Platypus's decision to lynch lurkers/inactives/not as participative. Anti-town move right there. It's scary how everyone just jumps on CJ right here.

page 13: CJ flips town, and only one nightkill....so:

either there is only one team of scum OR
one team got a successful NK, other one got blocked by doctor OR
teams of scum blindly vote as a collective unit, and the quickest majority gets NKed
[probably other possibilities , but these come to mind]

page 14: not sure why BC started with a vote on CB...CB hasn't done anything scummy IMO. BC claims overreaction on MM, but I think it's CB overreacting. Although, post 333 by CB gives scum vibes...goes straight to the doctor theory...why is that CB? :O BC claimed Cop...hmm....well, hope there's a doctor, cause I'd hate to see you go due to early claim. Do us proud BC. Could also be a false claim, but for now I'll go with real claim.

page 15: BC got a guilty claim on CB? guess we can't go wrong with that...although if you're wrong, I'd go for you next. Post 360 puts the nail in the coffin for CB I think...how is he so certain about how many scum we have? Hey, there's me giving my first post of the game...don't I look dashing handsome and well poised? Um...readin SW's post...apparantly CB was suspicious? I must of missed it...I'll go back and reread...I just want to defend empking for a second too...every game I've been in with him he never exactly acts "normal" or tries to be pro-town, so the BW hop is normal play for him. I find that when Kise plays insistant, he's usually scum, so

FoS: Kise

. Konowa always jumps on BW at the beginning, so nulltell there too. R.I.P. nhamm...you were such a good player. [note the people i have mentioned are all people i have played with, so I'm describing my thoughts based on previous games/meta]

page 16: after reading 15 pages straight, I groaned seeing peanuts wall of posts, but read I did, and he appears townie so far. Very analytical. I belive BC is cop, but I were him, I'd of held out and gone after someone else, just to see if anyone seemed to link themselves to him and maybe check them out afterwards...in other words, use CB as bait. For now if he turns scum we'll have to browse back and look for possible ties.


So that's me all caught up...


very improbable ties: BC and MM, me and myself
appears town: bekk, SW, nhamm, CJ, ipeanut
appears scummy: BC, MM, Sando, reckoner, platypus
is the greatest person alive: me

and to finish it off...

vote: canadianbovine

[saberwolf]

EBWOP: I'm really sorry, the scum one is supposed to say CB, NOT BC. I actually confused the two several times in my posts, and I thought I found and changed them all before posting. guess not.

reckoner: I thought I posted some reason for you seeming scummy. Apparantly I didn't so I'll have to reread and try to figure out why I originally did. I think it was due to aggressive play...I'll recheck. Same with sando.

I'm not surprised that the ones who I called scummy are saying I'm scummy.

As for the whole townie points thing. I deliberately skipped page 1 [top part anyways] and did not allow myself to see who died, as to not bias my analysis. So if it seems like I "townie pointed" up the dead people, it just happened to work out like that. All it means was that my view on nhamm was correct.

as for adding CJ and nhamm on the town list, it was more of a joke, cause by then we all knew they were town.

[saberwolf]

Please also remember I tried to catch up on 16 pages in one post, so it's easy for me to have omitted something or start randomly going off on other thoughts and missing ones I had originally started on.

[saberwolf]

ok, time for me to own up to my mistakes...

after rereading the key areas, I have decided that I've got nothing on sando, and post 108 was my initial suspect area for reckoner, where I began to tunnel.

My apologies, consider yourselves taken off the list...for now.

[saberwolf]

haha, hari kiri eh?....

[saberwolf]

been to disneyland, done that, got the tshirt...enjoy your time though

hari-kiri is basically suicide to avoid death by the hands of another.

[saberwolf]

haha, scum lying till the end

[saberwolf]

haha, yay! I get to be the one person to ask:

kise: can you claim please?

[saberwolf]

Er EBWOP: disk-us-shin.

I really hope you aren't serious. It's like the game mad libs, just sound it out. It's obvious what he's claiming.

[saberwolf]

Upon sounding it out. I turn to hit my head for being a dense fool.

just beat me there with this post

[saberwolf]

umm...hi? I just realised I haven't been as paricipative here. My apologies.

Plat: I was not that hard on kise as others. I only asked him to claim because one or two others asked him to and he said he only would if one more person asked, so I figured what the hell, i'll ask him.

Kise: I have a neutral read on you, as I don't believe or disbelieve you on your claim. Granted, VT is hard to prove, but I like to keep my options open. HOWEVER, if I were to go on past games, you were awfully obvious scum in lovers mafia, and you don't seem to be able to disguise it well, and you always brought up irrelevent or stupid ideas. So if I were to go based on how scummy you seem, I'd say townie, but I could say Scum for bringing up some stupid ideas like the JOAT. Overall, I'm undecided, but I don't feel the need to place my vote on you...yet.

so I think it would be a good idea to keep BC alive as claimed cop

, for the reason that if he's telling the truth, if we hypothetically got to the point where it was mostly power roles left and scum, the power roles could all announce and all clears/uncleas could be announced, analyzed, and whittle down who can be and who can't be mafia. For now, the power roles should remain quiet, but as we are nowhere close to a townie loss yet, I think it is in our best interests to keep BC alive as long as we can.

Scott: My vote will most likely land up on you. If you were to try and convince me that someone else here deserved the vote more, who would it be? Give me your first and second choice.

[saberwolf]

I agree with BM's post 633 for the most part. BUT I don't like how pushy BM is for Kise's lynch. I know he likes to play aggressive, but it makes me wonder a little...

If kise is town, I'd go for Scott or BM [i believe BC's claim of day cop, makes sense, so wouldnt vote for him.]
If Scott goes next and is town, I'd go Kise or SSK

[saberwolf]

oh, and i don't like kise's recent posts either, going against claimed cop with successful lynch is pretty anti-town, so:

vote: Kise

[saberwolf]

I agree with the above post by bekk ^^^

SSK, I think your last post was kinda pointless, although sorta nice to see what you think on the issue...I don't think BC is gonna go anytime soon, and I'm sure Kise is gonna go before BC does.

[saberwolf]

Kise is tomorrows lynch if BC is town.

Reading this over again, it seems to me like you're trying a pleading case where you are trying to see if you can appeal to others in jumping off the Kise BW by saying that if we go and lynch our claimed day cop, we can simply lynch Kise tomorrow. Seems kinda scummy.

FoS: MafiaSSK

[saberwolf]

If you notice scott, I have left multiple options for both scenarios, so scum can't 100% accurately play on simply my post alone, although I do see what you were getting at.
This also could be a red herring for scum as well, but that just leads to WIFOM, so no sense running down that deadend discussion.

[saberwolf]

Kise is tomorrows lynch if BC is town.

I'm voting saberwolf... why is everyone thinking I'm ready to rid of BC? I'm willing to give him a chance because by eliminating night mafia, that's one less faction that can kill. Saberwolf made a comment about needing to check the flavor of nightkills. Then, later on, we verify that scum can modify how their kills are made. Seems strange, do you not agree?

I said earlier: "I'd like to start off with a random thought...since the game is called DAY NIGHT MAFIA, can't we assume there are two teams of scum? a team of day mafia and a team of night mafia? I'll comment more on this later after seeing what the NK scene is like at the end of the day...also, if there are two teams of scum, would that mean there's the possibility of double the amount of power roles to compensate for this?"
This simply meant I wanted to see if there were one or two deaths by the end of the night sequence, cause two would of meant two teams for sure. Honestly, if I were scum, why would I deliberately set up a random thought thread where I let you in on the fact that I can switch up my kill methods? [not that that REALLY matters, a kill is a kill is a kill...]

Kise is tomorrows lynch if BC is town.

Reading this over again, it seems to me like you're trying a pleading case where you are trying to see if you can appeal to others in jumping off the Kise BW by saying that if we go and lynch our claimed day cop, we can simply lynch Kise tomorrow.

Nice catch, SW.. I could be wrong about you.. I don't understand why SSK is among those who believe I am calling for BC's lynch

today

. It's very inconsidering to the fact that day mafia could be lynched or killed, thus disproving my case against BC and clearing him. I will second a

FoS on SSK

.

If you notice scott, I have left multiple options for both scenarios, so scum can't 100% accurately play on simply my post alone, although I do see what you were getting at.

I don't see it that way.. what happens in the event both Scott & I are town? What does that say about your proposal then? Also, I thought you said earlier I wasn't playing to my scum meta. Did I... suddenly start playing my scum meta?

If both of you turned up town [very unlikely], then I welcome an investigation and/or a lynch upon myself. I didn't think about your meta when I voted, I just thought your last couple of posts were very anti-town.

@Mod(s):

The Rules

2. Play to win. Naming, or even pretending to name, scumbuddies is an infraction of this rule and will result in modkills and an automatic loss for your team.

Just want to refresh this rule in case it's already been done.

I thought my asking kise to claim was innocent enough, but for all you know I could of had a purpose...what if I am the night doctor and he claimed to be the night doctor? If I'm a power role then I very well may be interested in what Kise claims to be.

However, Kise's final posts in desperation have got me rethinking my vote...he seems pretty legit with his claim on things such as number of words divisible by 5 stuff...but then again, he could also be doing a shot in the dark. However, he has convinced me.

unvote; vote: Scott Brosius

[saberwolf]

@Saberwolf
Wait. Please. Tell. Me. You. Didn't. Just. Semi. Claimed. In. That. Hypothetical. Situation.

Key word: hypothetical

But just wanted to double check you responded in bold, right? Also can you source your little statement about: "I said earlier blah blah blah....."?

Yes, it's me responding in bold, and my source is page 16 i believe...it's my analysis on page 11

Also what is with the trend of "self lynching to prove a point". Sorry but anti-town is just anti-town and time is better spend scum hunting then creating a self lynch scenario. You and BM "shakes fist at you two".

sorry

[saberwolf]

btw, unless each scum team must win by itself, wouldnt having three of each be a little dangerous? If we were to mislynch now, they would technically win the game. I would hope there's only two of each O.o

[saberwolf]

while that is true sando, all it would take is one courageous VT to stand up and say, no youre wrong, and we all put our votes back on kise. if kise flips VT, we lynch the accuser. That would keep all the other VT's safe. I still don't recommend this though.

[saberwolf]

wow, I must of been suckered or something...everyone else simply jumped on kise even more for that...

*wonders should he put his vote back*

[saberwolf]

wow, I must of been suckered or something...everyone else simply jumped on kise even more for that...

*wonders should he put his vote back*

Put your money where your mouth is. Kise is acting very Anti-town at the moment.

siding with the cop:

unvote; vote: kise

[saberwolf]

Kise is at L-1 I believe...

Kise, I'd suggest REALLY pulling out your full arsenal. Part of me still believes you are VT, but I have to admit that the others are right in the fact that you have been pretty anti-town, especially as of late.

[saberwolf]

For those online, what do you make of Platy's post?

which one? and if you don't convince me with this, then I think you're just grasping at straws...if you got nothing better than this, consider my vote stuck.

---

Vote Count:

Scott Brosius(1)

- xRECKONERx

saberwolf(3)

- Platypus_Dude, Kise, Scott Brosius

Kise(5)

- Battle Mage, BloodCovenent, Bekkatha, Sando, saberwolf

Not Voting(4)

- MafiaSSK, iPeanut, lobstermania, DTMaster

Deadline:

24/8/09 15:45 Central Time

7 to Lynch
4 to Lynch at deadline

[saberwolf]

saberwolf, don't bullshit a bullshitter. I can tell you're hungry for this lynch and you seem to be ignoring posts deliberately.

The Platy post can be seen in Posts 711 & 713. He started D2 off by believing nhammen was killed by day-vig. He sounds convincing enough.

Sando, a mafia cop is also known as rolecop. They target a player and the mod retrieves them that player's full role PM. This will help them identify town roles, such as VTs, docs, etc.

I see your point...assuming a day-vig is better than a JOAT though...but he could be day scum trying to throw us off...

I can't see kise bussing his partner like this...i can't see plat and kise BOTH as day mafia.

However, I have more reason to suspect you than sando, although it wouldnt hurt for BC to check him out.

[saberwolf]

Yes Sando, a cop can be scum. One just flipped in an ongoing game of mine. But, by making JOAT mafia-aligned, it's crippling to town due to giving scum so many abilities to work with.

Sando, what is this information you thought I knew regarding a JOAT?

Then that would mean that we might have two docs against one mafia team?

Not necessarily. If there are day and night doctors, and the whole night scum group is gone, it would make a night doctor into a VT, as his role would be useless.

[saberwolf]

I'm not sure why I didn't post this earlier, but here goes:

Reasons why the BC case should be dropped...for good

1. Say hypothetically he is lying and is actually scum. The second the actual night cop gets lynched or NKed, we know exactly who to lynch next, being BC.

2. If he is truly cop, he already has the scum on his ass, there's no need to help them along.

3. As long as he is in the game, he stands a good chance of finding us another scum. If he actually achieves this, this should be more than enough to clear him.

4. If he is not the cop, the actual cop can claim later, and we can decide from there whether or not to lynch him

For the following reasons above, he should be left alone until one of them occur.

[saberwolf]

nah, I still feel there are still those [SSK to name one] who still would want to lynch BC first.

[saberwolf]

yay! a new BW...I wasn't that big of a fan of the kise one anyways...

unvote; vote: MafiaSSK

kise, remind me of your question in the near future and I will do my best to answer it. For now I dont have the time to reread through the pages and do an analysis.

[saberwolf]

lol, of course you're gonna FoS me, I am on your BW after all

[saberwolf]

Scott: I don't like how you skipped posts inbetween the last two quotes. there are more posts involved that have me second guessing and clearly saying I don't like the kise BW. I think that what Kise was posting was anti-town, but something in my gut tells me that he isn't all the scum we think he is. I felt pretty certain that SSK stood a good chance of being scum, especially when i caught him with what i thought was a good possible scumslip. Because I felt more comfortable with a SSK lynch than a kise lynch, I didn't mind siding over to that BW. Besides, I already said I side with the cop. I trust his judgement more than anyone else's right now.

FoS scott

[saberwolf]

*pokes BM with a stick*

[saberwolf]

@ bek: as i know you are online right now, i'll ask you: what are your contributions to date? what have you gathered out of this game so far? feel free to include or not any information, as i realise that not all you know can be disclosed for game reasons.

[saberwolf]

scott: post 681 is where i started to think of kise as possible townie, because i thought doing the whole thing with role PM claim without quoting etc was pretty convincing, then 697 i started getting second thoughts as I seemed to be his only sympathiser as everyone else seemed to double their efforts on him. 719 is where I start to say I'm still sympathizing for him, but sticking with the majority because he doesnt seem to be helping himself much though. Finally when we reach the post where i say he better not be grasping at straws, it's insinuating that any hope i have for him is fading fast. I know what kise has been doing is anti-town, but there's just something about the whole thing that bugs me...I caught SSK [or so I'd like to believe] still trying to lynch our claimed cop, and I don't feel much for SSK, so I was more than happy to go with the new BW and majority vote, and I could use more time to read kise.

[saberwolf]

there are so many holes in your claim SSK, you HAVE to be scum.

let's get this day over with. I'll have to reread the last few pages, see who else other than scott and kise were connected to SSK.

[saberwolf]

I can assure you I am none of those roles kise.

---

Vote Count:

saberwolf(1)

- Platypus_Dude

Kise(4)

- Battle Mage, Bekkatha, Sando, lobstermania

MafiaSSK(6)

- Kise, BloodCovenent, DTMaster, saberwolf, xRECKONERx, Scott Brosius

Not Voting(2)

- MafiaSSK, iPeanut

Deadline:

24/8/09 15:45 Central Time

7 to Lynch
4 to Lynch at deadline

[saberwolf]

dont worry sandos, it won't matter after we lynch SSK. He'll pop up scum, just watch.

[saberwolf]

vote: lobstermania

for going on a bogus claim by scum in an attempt to lynch me.

[saberwolf]

because SSK is an idiot and couldnt even fakeclaim properly.

whats so hard to understand about that?

[saberwolf]

ipeanut: I guess what is one mans bane is another man's gain. I am looking forward to going back to university, and I actually think I'll have even more time to contribute towards playing mafia than I do now. lol

[saberwolf]

Aussie = scum

[saberwolf]

It took me a second there... but lobster has a point. MafiaSSK basically kamikaze'd to sacrifice himself for whoever was getting the attention, it seemed. I don't like voting a claimed cop, though, so I'm going to wait for Kise.

By the sounds of this, Kise claimed cop? when was this? Am I reading this right?

[saberwolf]

It took me a second there... but lobster has a point. MafiaSSK basically kamikaze'd to sacrifice himself for whoever was getting the attention, it seemed. I don't like voting a claimed cop, though, so I'm going to wait for Kise.

Unvote:
Vote: xRECKONERx

care to go into a little more explanation BC?

[saberwolf]

I'm pretty sure it was SSK who "kamikazied" in a sacrifice as well as claimed cop, but I get what you're trying to say.

[saberwolf]

haha, still on my case are you PD?

Why should it matter? I knew SSK's story was bogus, so I dismissed it and ignored the contents of it. He made such a lousy liar that to sift through any of his posts would be meaningless, especially now that after we lynched him he was confirmed scum, making everything he said a lie.

You are trying to prod me into revealing my alignment and/or role by asking me and others questions about the results claim by SSK [which was clearly false], hoping that in doing so I am either forced to give it up to save myself or I slip up and reveal something for you to use to your possibly anti-town needs. It's rolefishing, and I don't like it.

FoS: Platypus_Dude

[saberwolf]

yep, Kise is Godfather, and LobsterMania is quite possibly his Goon.

BM

How do you know its Godfather?

I think this is actually a scumslip. Notice there is no response to the part about lobstermania. [most likely because lobstar isn't maf, or at least not on SSK's side] But he DOES respond to the part about Kise being godfather. I see three possibilities here:

1. SSK is surprised and caught off guard by the accuracy and confidence of the statement. Inquires BM in an attempt to probe around for a role. SSK fails to get anything out of BM. This results in BM's death.

2. The part "how do you know its Godfather" could also suggest SSK admitting to the fact that Kise is scum, but not necessarily godfather [goon]. The fact that SSK sacrificed himself for Kise's sake doesn't really support this theory.

3. I am completely and utterly wrong.


by SSK:

Kise is tomorrows lynch if BC is town.

Would it be that smart to set up your godfather just to lynch an unknown? seems stupid, but then again, its SSK. Hard to really say.

I'd contribute much more if there weren't post after post of walls of text. It makes my brain lazy and me not want to contribute. And howlong have you been on Mafiascum? Shouldn't you know that Empking and I are in the bottom of the contributors list on MS?

Yeah, I'm skimming. My thoughts being BC is most likely scum and anyone attacking Kise is stupid.

Seeing as BC's cop, doesn't help Kise's case much. Also, because SSK was trying to threaten everyone to stay away from Kise, it makes me even more suspicious.

I think that's enough info for me to change my vote:

unvote; vote: Kise

[saberwolf]

BC, I'm still curious why it's okay for you to vote saberwolf, but when I FoS saberwolf you see that as ample reason change your vote to me....

in case you didnt notice, BC always random votes someone at the beginning of each day. Thats the difference.

[saberwolf]

@Sabre/Lobster Debate

I didn't know that about BC. Ever since the cop claim and flavour claim I've just disregarded BC as just townie. :< Bias FTL, I think.

Also lobster your Sabre suspicions stemmed from SSK's neutral read. Sorry but that is a poor source to start from.

I have "seen the light" regarding SSK's fail-claim. And I believe BC is town, I'm just curious about his hypocrisy of voting saberwolf and then voting me when I FoS saberwolf

go back to my last post about 4-5 posts back. i already explained it.

[saberwolf]

hate to add to the list of busy people, but I'm possible V/LA till monday.

[saberwolf]

I guess it's time for the hammer:

unvote; vote: Lobstermania

the last bit of posts by you, plus the attention put on them by the others, convinces me that kise can wait, and you can be next to go.

[saberwolf]

EBWOP: turns out I'm only fifth vote, but that's fine.

[saberwolf]

no, it says october 2nd, but I claim the same defence. I accidentally misread it as September 2nd when I did my hammer. I wasn't sure if I'd get computer access today, so I voted for lobster.

[saberwolf]

bah, i was going to announce all of my findings to date today too...

good timing mafia, I thought i was acting just the right level of town/scum to avoid being NKed....

Good luck guys.

[saberwolf]

haha, he does the same thing with my name, i tend to ignore it.

[saberwolf]

*dead day cop's ghost haunts reckoner....*

[saberwolf]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OMG, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT WORKED.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[saberwolf]

i think its safe for me to talk.

so yeah, my investigations were monkeyman, sando and BM i believe, all brought up innocent.