[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[animorpherv1]

TOWN WIN/BASTARD MOD MAFIA

2 Mafia
6 Town

When town post, they have to post the name of there scumbuddies

[animorpherv1]

Caboose, that's ot right. a 1 shot bp can't die on N1 in a Day Satrt.

[animorpherv1]

How about this?
2 Mafia Goons
1 Even Night Cop
1 Odd Night Doctor
5 Vanilla Townies
Day Start

Does it start day 1 - night 2 or day 1 - night 1?

...

You need to ask?

[animorpherv1]

near- inasta win for scum if town doctorss are stupid enough not to protect claimed Vampire.

Example:

D1. Townie lynched
2 Mafia vs. 6 townies
N1. Vampire killed
3 Mafia vs. 5 Townies

also:
Last night, Vampire is still alive, but unclaimed doc does not protect Vamp, and mafia kill "it"
was:
2 vs. 4/ 1 vs. 3
is:
3 vs. 3 Mafia win/ 2 vs. 2 Mafia win

[animorpherv1]

Simenon - Are Mafia A and Mafia told they are A & B? If not, you'd need to change that.
Empking - A good basic setup, for players who are new. At least, in my opinion. My only concren is the Vig, which doubles the kills/night. With 7 town and 2 Mafia, that may be bad, unless we have perfect doc protections.

[animorpherv1]

50%?

2 Lovers Mafia

2 Masons
2 Townies

Night Start

I'm not comfortable with D1 LYLO.

QFT

[animorpherv1]

@Farside:

If the Vig shoots the mafia Nurse, who protacted him/herself, vig claims, and lynches a mafia.

[animorpherv1]

@Farside:

If the Vig shoots the mafia Nurse, who protacted him/herself, vig claims, and lynches a mafia.

Only if the Roleblocker is dead.

If Roleblocker TARGETS the vig, and not the other roles, if living. The way you say it makes it seem like Roleblocker can ONLY target the vig.

[animorpherv1]

Always assume if it's not put as "compulsive' it's not. But it's nice to ask anyways.

[animorpherv1]

I like the "only if they are sole survivors" rule personally.

But that's just because I'm too lazy to think of the repercussions and so I just split the difference....Oh my god. I'm Joe Lieberman!!!!

[animorpherv1]

Noah's Ark 3.0
2 Mafia A (Provided with one random safe claim)
2 Mafia B (Provided with one random safe claim)

There are 8 players who are distributed to the following roles. There will either be 0 or 2 of each:
Cops (If selected one can only find Maf A the other Maf B)
Doctors (If selected one can only protect from Maf A the other Maf B)
Millers (who get a Townie Role PM)
Roleblockers, Trackers, Watchers, Martyrs, Lovers, Masons, Townies

and so on

Town have 8 players randomly across the different possibilities.

Does that mean all possible roles? Because, if I got a townie PM, I'd go right out and say "I'm a miller, folks". Because the chances of getting town and miller in the same game are SO DAMNED LITTLE.

[animorpherv1]

Does that mean all possible roles? Because, if I got a townie PM, I'd go right out and say "I'm a miller, folks". Because the chances of getting town and miller in the same game are SO DAMNED LITTLE.

Actually the chances of getting a miller are the same as getting a townie.

but the chances of getting town & miller in the same game is smaller then getting town OR miller.

[animorpherv1]

Does that mean all possible roles? Because, if I got a townie PM, I'd go right out and say "I'm a miller, folks". Because the chances of getting town and miller in the same game are SO DAMNED LITTLE.

Actually the chances of getting a miller are the same as getting a townie.

but the chances of getting town & miller in the same game is smaller then getting town OR miller.

What if the other townie claims townie? You'd have no reason to claim miller over townie. The claim of townie has implications of being a miller anyway.

You said therw would be 0-2 of certain roles (8 total). Having 1 miller & townie is more likley then 2 of both. But you never did answer first question. Is the possible roles every role in the wiki? Because that's what my case is based on.

[animorpherv1]

It isn't 0-2 random. It's 0-2 because the mafia might have been given those roles as fakeclaims. The likeliness of 1 of each rather than 2 of each depends on how many roles there are total.

It says "randomly" in the description.

[animorpherv1]

I like the idea, but I think it's broken by massclaim. Lynch all of one mason group, then all of another....

[animorpherv1]

much better.

[animorpherv1]

hey, not sure if you'll go for these or if this is in the right place, but here are a few game ideas for themed games.

Clue/Cluedo - Each character would have a name for a color (Prof. Plum, Col. Mustard, etc) and multiple people who killed Mr. Body. Each could have a special ability depending on what they are, for example a Doctor would take the Doctor Role, the Colonel could be the gunkeeper and be able to inspect people's weapons, etc...

Fire Emblem - Honestly nothin different except some titles, mercenaries would be the mafia, summoners could bring back people, there would be two who dont know about each other, and have both vote for the same person to be brought back. would start after 5 people died. Saints could use staves to either play doctor, cancel someone's turn, whatever.

Also, don't put want you want to see everywhere. That's rude.

[animorpherv1]

LYLO mafia

2 Vanilla Townies
1 Mafia Goon

- Day start

[animorpherv1]

I considered it a classic O.0

[animorpherv1]

I agree with all 5.

[animorpherv1]

Counceling

MAFIA ROLES

1 Lover Pair of Goon-roleblocker

TOWN ROLES

1-2 Lover Pair(s) (Both are Vanilla Townies)
0-2 1-shot Cop(s)
6-7 VT
1 Lawyer (Able to split up Lover-pairs, will not be told if he was sucessful)

[animorpherv1]

Let's try this again.

Mafia roles

1 Lover Pair of Goon-roleblocker
1 Godfather

town roles

1-2 Lover Pairs (both are VTs)
0-2 Cops (If 2, 1 is either random or paranoid)
2-4 VT
1 Lawyer (does same as last time, not told if right)

[animorpherv1]

Still the same issue IMO. The best play by the lawyer is to do nothing. I suggest removing the mafia lovers if you want to keep the lawyer, or make some radical alteration.

I desperatley want to keep the lawyer, so expect an alteration with Mafia-Town lover pairs.

[animorpherv1]

@Elmo:

Elmo C10?

[animorpherv1]

PolyLovers????

[animorpherv1]

@Fonz:

You spealt death wrong

[animorpherv1]

I've seen "Suicide Bomber" called a "Yak" (Yakuza) somewhere else.

ON EM Yakuza's ocnvert their target instead of killing them. Also, doctors save them from dieing.

[animorpherv1]

I don't think AitP is mafia, though, so I'll stay out of that argument.

Yet you consider it Mafia Enought to run as an Open?

[animorpherv1]

I disagree that games with One "Mafia" is Mafia. IMO, if you get Mafia, you are Mafia with a group of people, untill either you or some of them die.

[animorpherv1]

Maybe 0-3 PRs, where if there are 2 or 3, Scum get one?

[animorpherv1]

I nominate the both of them together for a game.

[animorpherv1]

Nominate Kingdom Mafia

[animorpherv1]

nominate Opposite Day

[animorpherv1]

What about if goon = Janitor?

[animorpherv1]

Yea. It would be;

Max has died he was a

Town ??????

[animorpherv1]

Max, I find it unlikely that in a 16 player game with 8 anti-town there will be no crosskills.

[animorpherv1]

I don't get it.

assuming best case scenario, where the mafia and SK only kill town, and all mafia are dead first:

8:3:3:1:1 - Game start
8:2:3:1:1 - Day 1 lynch (Even Mafia)
6:2:2:1:1 - Night 1 kills (2 townies and Odd Mafia)
6:1:2:1:1 - Day 2 lynch (Even Mafia)
4:2:1:1 Night 2 kills (2 townies and Even Mafia)
4:1:1:1 - Day 3 Lynch (Odd Mafia)
2:1:1 - Night 3 kills (2 townies and odd Mafia)
2:1 - Day 4 lynch (Even SK)
2 - Night 4 kills (Odd SK)

o wait. Now I get it.

[animorpherv1]

Also, Mafia Cops figure out alignment of another player, right?

If so, they may just find the doc and kill him/her.

[animorpherv1]

@Twomz:

Maybe, like some Nightless games I've seen, PRs are essentially "day" versions of the PRs, where if they don't send in their action by the end of the day, they don't use it. Same goes for mafia kills.

[animorpherv1]

@Andrius:

What if he was able to give people a ligtning rod?

[animorpherv1]

@Andrius:

What if he was able to give people a ligtning rod?

Why the hell would he do that? Its essentially the same thing as killing the people.
If the people receiving the lightning rod saps all kills, then they die. Its the same thing as killing someone. >_>

It gives him a chance to win, first of all. And, since he's 3rd party, he'd wnat to kill them.

[animorpherv1]

@Andrius:

What if he was able to give people a ligtning rod?

Why the hell would he do that? Its essentially the same thing as killing the people.
If the people receiving the lightning rod saps all kills, then they die. Its the same thing as killing someone. >_>

It gives him a chance to win, first of all. And, since he's 3rd party, he'd wnat to kill them.

But the kid never specified what role he was. Is he a SK or a Survivor? He already has a SK in the setup, so.
The last thing and SK needs is another SK.

But he's not gonig to use it on himself to draw all the kills (including the SK kills, which is the only kill he isn't Immune to). He's going to die the first night he uses it, I guarantee.

[animorpherv1]

No d'oh. Whoever he uses it on is guaranteed dead.

Lightning Rod is a bad role in most situations, but it does have its uses, and one of them isn't give-a-lightning-rod-to-another-player.

However, Lightning rod riber can ge good as mafia. If mafia has an info role like watcher.

[animorpherv1]

Hey Death Note, Theme Test thread...

[animorpherv1]

What happens if one Rival is nightkileld before either gets lynvhed?

[animorpherv1]

><

[animorpherv1]

Not mafia, really.

[animorpherv1]

Um, no it's not. Mafia = informed Minority vs. Uninformed Majority.

Noone here is informed. It's a game of Serial Killer.

[animorpherv1]

It's decent, IMO. It doesn't seem broken at first glance.

[animorpherv1]

There's a setup LIKE that already called polygamist that has four pairs of lovers and one group of 4 mafia that are all lovers with each other. It's VERY hard for mafia. Doesn't mean I didn't win it though.

So the idea has been done, so you know.

No. Treacherous lovers are where the lovership (is that a word?) is half town, half scum. So, pretty much, it's like polygamist except for town don't know if their lover is also town at the beginning.

Tragedy, that's actually a pretty interesting variation on a kind of hackneyed mechanic.

I've seen treacherous lovers as in where if the other half dies, this half doesn't.

[animorpherv1]

Why not make it possible for the wolves to pass the Bulletproof vest to each other during the Night?

Because the Alpha Werewolf is more powerful than a normal werewolf. Basically, Alpha Werewolf = Godfather for another faction.

[animorpherv1]

@Tragedy's sugestion, please remember that most mods who go to the Open Queue to mod, it is their first time modding. It's too complexe.

[animorpherv1]

@Tragedy: Gunsmiths don't work that way? Gunsmiths check whether they have a gun or not. All Mafia (and the Fisherman, if he has a gun) would get a "Gun Detected" Result, no matter if they did the kill or not.

[animorpherv1]

Fisherman is supposed to be random, no? The items I don't care for.

As much as I get it now, I''m not a big fan of changing a role to make it different when an Open setup in the Open Theme Queue is supposed to be normal, but it might work.

[animorpherv1]

@Empking:
As it is, the cop-makee can confirm a claimed cop-maker based on the action.
You could make one of the goons a scum cop-maker. They might never use the ability, but since they have the option, that means cop-makers couldn't be immediately confirmed as town by the person to whom they gave the ability.
Also, goons could be told when they are targeted by a cop maker, so they aren't caught on that basis if they claim VT. You could reward them for being targeted with a rolecop.
In fact, you could combine these and let the mafia cop-maker target the mafia goon to turn them into a rolecop (after the first night... it might not be very useful.)
Will VT cop-makees flip as VT's or as cops?

@Tragedy:
Do you know about this subforum?

She posts in it quite often >.>

[animorpherv1]

Where's the difference between 2, 3, & 4? Is it in rolename only?

My best guess is a Normal Doctor works different than an unlicensed. I'd rather have cop, doctor etc. variants left OUT of newbie games.

[animorpherv1]

I like it.

[animorpherv1]

If a hider hides behind the TVT, I assume they are not told. Otherwise, you have 3 investigation roles.

[animorpherv1]

EBWOP:

Also, Rolecop should get normal VT result on the TVT, due to the fact that if it recieves a no result, then you've practically found the TVT.

[animorpherv1]

Why would a doctor announce who he/she is going to protect anyways?

[animorpherv1]

Notes

- FBI Agents are searching for TOWNIES. If they investigate each other, Goons, CPR Doctor or Goons Framing Non-Townies, it will turn up Negative. However, if the Goons frame a townie while being investigated, it will turn up Positive. If they investigate a player who is dying during the Night, it will turn Null.
- Framer Goons can either Frame or Kill somebody. When investigated while framing a townie, the results will turn Positive. When investigated while framing a non-Townie, results will turn

Did you screw up here? Because imo, Positive should be yes you found who you are looking for, and negative should be no.

[animorpherv1]

Oh, I get it now, sorta. >.> Still somewhat confused.

But framing a townie gives the exact same result as not framing a townie.

[animorpherv1]

Yes, but Psychiatrists turn SKs into pro-town roles. I believe Arsonist turns into a doctor, and the others turn into VTs. Or something similar.

[animorpherv1]

They should get a PM telling them which one they are after?

[animorpherv1]

Third Faith Plus One IF Faith Healers are unprotectable

[animorpherv1]

Animorpherv--in all versions, the FH's would not be allowed to self-protect, so the best case scenario for them cross-protecting each other would be in v. 1.1 and 1.2, where each protection still has a 50% chance of failure (is this what you were thinking of?).

In 1.3 and 1.4 (the versions w/ the fix Herodotus suggested), there is a 100% ineffective FH, so the FH's cannot effectively cross-protect.

methinks if a FH protects another FH, the %chance of it working should be lowered to 0%. Otherwise, if the FH protects another FH, and random.org continually lets it go, the mafia aren't gonna be able to kill the FH.

[animorpherv1]

Also, Dethy Revisited:

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Sane Cop
1 Insane Cop
1 Paranoid Cop
1 Naive Cop

[animorpherv1]

Also,

Partner Dethy

players

2 mafia, 6 Cops. Each Cop has a partner, which may or may not be a mafia member. Mafia can be partners with another mafia. Sanities are still unknown, and mafia still have a QT to themselves if they aren't partner

The Sanities are normal Sane, Insane, Naive, Paranoid

For example:

Sane - Cop & Mafia
Insane - Cop & Cop
Paranoid - Cop & Mafia
Naive - Cop & Cop

[animorpherv1]

Also, Dethy Revisited:

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Sane Cop
1 Insane Cop
1 Paranoid Cop
1 Naive Cop

Also,

Partner Dethy

players

2 mafia, 6 Cops. Each Cop has a partner, which may or may not be a mafia member. Mafia can be partners with another mafia. Sanities are still unknown, and mafia still have a QT to themselves if they aren't partner

The Sanities are normal Sane, Insane, Naive, Paranoid

For example:

Sane - Cop & Mafia
Insane - Cop & Cop
Paranoid - Cop & Mafia
Naive - Cop & Cop

Anybody? I'm especially interested in the last one and how it would affect the balance.

[animorpherv1]

Multiple protective role + No Cop > Multiple Protective Roles + Cop because 2 confiremd townies in 1 day < 1 confirmed in 1 day

[animorpherv1]

Yours is however broken by having cop and faith healer claim, because if the FH protecting the other FH gets good luck and lots of saves, ten game can essentially fall into a "rocks fall, everyone dies" scenario where the mafia can't (and/or won't) kill anyone else and town consistently NLs so they get more information.

[animorpherv1]

Reverse CPR doctors o_0

[animorpherv1]

I like it to.

Second: MotG v2.0

[animorpherv1]

so, I'm assuming that if Red Cult Cop is cult'd by Red Cult, then he effectively becomes a Vanilla?

Or are they immune to cult recruits?

[animorpherv1]

Nevermind my question. Reading fail.

Llama, do the cult get back their recruit after a recruitment fail.

[animorpherv1]

The *only* problem I see with this if if there are 3 mafia and its not White Flag/it is White Flag, mafia already know what setup it is.

[animorpherv1]

I get the feeling Empking is including Innocent Children in his lynches.

[animorpherv1]

Let's test it out then:

Original Roll String: 4d20

4 20-Sided Dice: (10, 6, 17, 13) = 46

[animorpherv1]

Goon, Goon, 1-shot Cop, 1-shot Vig, 5 townies.

I'd consider that fairly balanced. Maybe a bit town sided, if anything.

[animorpherv1]

Actually, it would be 2 Goons, JOAT (Cop/Vig), 6 Townies.

2 Ts mean no JOAT.

[animorpherv1]

Hoopla, I applaud you. You've done a lot for the Open Queue.

[animorpherv1]

If any town is lynched, Mafia win.

It's essentially LYLO on Day 1.

[animorpherv1]

Neither of those are mafia, and this isn't the thread for joke setups. We have a MD thread somewhere for that.

[animorpherv1]

It's not a setup, period.

[animorpherv1]

He likes Themed Kill-roles, if I understand correctly.

Pretty much.

[animorpherv1]

...Mafia could just force an NL by never voting...

We could make the setup a must lynch...

[animorpherv1]

In a closed setup, a Jester will almost always win, disrupting the town in the process.

Even if

It doesn't end the game and it's awful.

Fixed because you never see endgame Jesters anymore.

In an Open setup, it's far harder for the Jester to win, but it creates massive paranoia.

I can imagine this.

Jesters belong in Bastard games, and nowhere else.

I disagree. Jester is a fairly common knowledge role so it should be used as such.

[animorpherv1]

MishMash has no modding requirements, so I may well just go try it out, once I've thrown it past some pseudo-reviews, if it would be balanced enough.

Except for the fact that mafia games aren't allowed in Mish Mash?

[animorpherv1]

I know this is old, but I don't view this subforum much.

@Hoopla: For your 'Experiment Mafia', these would be my choices:

(1)

Odd Night Tracker

(1)

Doctor

(1)

2-shot Jailkeeper

(2)

Roleblocker

(2)

Watcher

(3)

Death Miller

vs. SK with Unlimited Night Kills & Ninja/Strongman

and then for your simplified version:

Town:

(1)Doctor

(1) 1-shot Vig

(2) 2x Masons

(3) Cop

Mafia:

Godfather

Roleblocker

vs. Serial Killer with Odd Night Cop Immunity, (Use 2 black), Even Night Cop Immunity, (Use Blue), (1) 1-shot Kill (Use Blue), 1-shot Daykill (Use 2 blue + pink)

[animorpherv1]

I know this will seem really insignificantly small, but if all 3 masons end up drawing neighbours (as unlikely as it is), then it's a waste of neighbours. A way to prevent that would be nice.

[animorpherv1]

If scum had three neighbours, they could definitely find a way to use that to their advantage, I think.

If masons had three neighbours, it would at least give them information (e.g. that all the neighbours were town, = the scum didn't know who they were).

Well duh scum could find a way to claim an advantage. They could claim neighbours and anyone who thinks that role = alignment would auto unvote (Let's face it. A lot of the people who play Open games aren't the best scumhunters out there).

I however, cannot find enough semi-useful situations for mason-neighbours to make it worthwhile.

[animorpherv1]

Once again, Junpei everybody. Clap if you give a fuck what he says.

[animorpherv1]

zoraster, your setup reminds me of Max's Always lylo mafia, or whatever it's called. It's not the same thing, but it's sort of similar.

[animorpherv1]

I hadn't heard of dethy before; I tried searching the wiki for a similar setup but hadn't found it.

Five people. 1 mafia, 4 cops are varying sanities. Has an incredibly high town win rate, and I believe it's either broken or essentially broken.