Open 177 (Monks and Masons) - Game Over.

[Benmage]

The Burr Vote count

ElectricBadger - Scien
Hewitt - ElectricBadger, ODDin
ODDin - Hewitt, Farside22
SaintKerrigan - Benmage

Not Voting: Nikanor, Maemuki, ODDin, SaintKerrigan.

Lots of love
Haylxxx

The fact that other people were acting in an unsportsmanlike manner before doesn't make it any better. You were using the fact that she replaced and didn't yet read the thread to gain a possible advantage. If she were a player from the start it wouldn't have worked. Thus, it's unfair. Period.

That being said, he (it's he, not she) did made a rather weird choice by not claiming. Then again, Fuzzy didn't initially respond to hewitt's claim either.

And I outted myself? In what sense?

You ruined the perfect trap to protect your partner.

This is by no means unsportsmanlike. The logical deduction that i wasn't lying could've been reached in seconds...all she had to do was use her fake claim "Monk".

[ODDin]

Kerrigan: to clarify, are you are are you not confirming the claim?
Also, claiming VT when you're not is a bad idea. Townies shouldn't lie. It'd create all sorts of confusion and weirdness later on in the game.

[Benmage]

Kerrigan: to clarify, are you are are you not confirming the claim?
Also, claiming VT when you're not is a bad idea. Townies shouldn't lie. It'd create all sorts of confusion and weirdness later on in the game.

Yeah Oddin, you should start bussing.

[ODDin]

Benmage, you should get a sense of honour. Taking advantage of a replacement is not fair. You are not supposed to have any advantage in the situation of a replacement that you wouldn't have had without any replacements.
I don't want and don't need unfair victories. Sadly, I was too late.

[Benmage]

Benmage, you should get a sense of honour. Taking advantage of a replacement is not fair. You are not supposed to have any advantage in the situation of a replacement that you wouldn't have had without any replacements.
I don't want and don't need unfair victories. Sadly, I was too late.

I dont see this as an unfair strategy. Like I said, the deduction that i wasn't lying was fairly easy in my opinion. Thus based on my views i see this as a viable strategy and was following my play to win.

[Benmage]

Sorry for some of the insults...i do get carried away.

[farside22]

meh EB claimed. No counter claim was made so I don't think it's a fake claim.
claiming VT would be terrible right now as it is just and FYI it's possible for a monk to be mafia (is that right I got confused which role it can't be)

[ODDin]

If Kerrigan is scum then he is in a losing situation because he isn't sure what to claim. This wouldn't have happened if Kerrigan was a player here from the start - then the strategy wouldn't have worked. So, it's a strategy which can only work if somebody has just now replaced in, and it uses this fact to work. Thus, you're potentially getting an advantage over the other team (if Kerrigan is scum and you're not on her scumteam) simply because one of the other team's players has been replaced.

[Benmage]

Yes it is possible for monk to be mafia. SK should've known i wasnt lying and claimed (correctly)....it was all rather simple. She didnt, messed up, cause shes scum.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Benmage: I got flustered because I didn't know if my older selves had claimed or not, and I didn't feel like claiming now. You're misconstruing the whole situation, Benmage.

I will admit that you do have a point about EB possibly being a Mafia Monk...

@ ODDin: I am confirming the claim.
As for the second part, I feel it's much better for a mason (or monk, as it were) to claim VT because that way the mason doesn't out his partner.

@ Farside22: Why is claiming VT terrible?

In other news:

Vote: Benmage.

I think he used this little stunt as an attempt to draw out a member of the opposing scum team.

[Benmage]

In other news:

Vote: Benmage.

I think he used this little stunt as an attempt to draw out a member of the opposing scum team.

An omgus now will only bury you.

"other scum team" ...yielding you are indeed mafia...the play could only be done to that team because you replaced a monk...gg

[ODDin]

You can claim mason/monk without saying who your partner is.

[Benmage]

@ Benmage: I got flustered because I didn't know if my older selves had claimed or not, and I didn't feel like claiming now. You're misconstruing the whole situation, Benmage.

If they didnt claim and I demanded this, i would've been murdered by everyone else...it was all very obvious.

[farside22]

@ Farside22: Why is claiming VT terrible?

most people asking for a claim will typically lynch someone claiming VT.
sure scum will or could claim some PR to out the role when nom'ed and then if asking for someone to counter claim and the person who claimed VT all the sudden said I"m actually that role. You better believe the person who lied would be lynched first

[ODDin]

Also, what has been seen cannot be unseen. Kerrigan, the "other scum team" does pretty much constitute a claim of being scum.
F*ck you, Benmage, and pardon my French.

[Benmage]

Also, what has been seen cannot be unseen. Kerrigan, the "other scum team" does pretty much constitute a claim of being scum.
F*ck you, Benmage, and pardon my French.

Wow, admitting yourself as well..you could've held off a little longer...2 for 1, lol didnt see that comming.

[ODDin]

No, I'm not. I'm annoyed at the fact that a scum claimed scum. Which means that unless somehow Kerrigan isn't scum, even if the town wins I won't be able to really consider this a victory. Which sucks.

Now I'll try to convince myself that what Kerrigan said isn't actually a scum claim until I believe that and can continue playing.

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, what has been seen cannot be unseen. Kerrigan, the "other scum team" does pretty much constitute a claim of being scum.
F*ck you, Benmage, and pardon my French.

No, I'm accusing Benmage of being a member of one scum team who accuses someone of being a member of the opposing scum team. This does not mean that I am a member of a scum team.

[Benmage]

Also, what has been seen cannot be unseen. Kerrigan, the "other scum team" does pretty much constitute a claim of being scum.
F*ck you, Benmage, and pardon my French.

No, I'm accusing Benmage of being a member of one scum team who accuses someone of being a member of the opposing scum team. This does not mean that I am a member of a scum team.

Nice backtrack..unfortunatley what probably happened was you went "Ah hA!"
thinking you had a way out to point a finger elsewhere, but messed up in your wording cause...well you're scum(mafia).

Anyways, some words of advice what i did was freakin brilliant. And the idea i am from a different scum team is a mess of wifom...because why wouldnt town do what i did? So i doubt you'll be convincing much on this alone.

May i ask, have you read the thread yet? And if the answer is no....i suggest you do so.

Note: you may want to skim the tough early scien/farside debate/walls.

[hewitt]

ODDin quit whining that was a perfectly acceptable move and Kerrigan most definitely dropped the ball.

[farside22]

nvm I just saw the post SaintKerrigan made that confirms this is the best place to vote right now.

unvote
vote: SaintKerrigan

[farside22]

So if one monk turns up scum does that mean the other is confirmed town?
I ask because the set up still confuses me a bit.

[Scien]

I wanted to see if he claimed the same thing without knowing what the first claim was you truly are terrible.

What makes you think that a townie in that situation wouldn't claim vanilla townie?

It would've taken 10 seconds to realize i wasn't lying. If i forced an uncalled for claim I would've been jumped all over faster than anything. Thus a claim for a scum would be perfect. You ruined it. Luckily she still f'd up regardless, and you outted yourself.

What makes you think they might not sacrifice a player to out the other M/M team and possibly drag out a member of the other scum team?

Overall this was an ill thought out 'trick' I think.

---

But as an aside @Kerrigan, what makes you think your partner is townie? You've made some posts that make it sound like you are pretty certain about it. (Sorry catching up it seams you changed your mind about this)

That being said, he (it's he, not she) did made a rather weird choice by not claiming.

Er... what? In that situation, why trying to figure out what is going on a bad idea? You would be stuck with no information, no way to know if it was a scum ploy or not, and immense pressure from the 'trick' to answer instantly. I think I might be hesitant as well.

Your role was known. No way was i lying. If you thought i was and you claimed, everyone would've murdered me. An infant could deduce this. You got flustered, and scarred cause you're scum.

Ignores the possibility of a scum willingly sacrificing themselves to draw out the team. Kerrigan had no way to know at the time if the scum were in a position where they would try that. Please tell me you thought about the possibilities before you pulled this off.

SK should've known i wasnt lying and claimed (correctly)....it was all rather simple. She didnt, messed up, cause shes scum.

Way to keep pushing this point like its a fact. There are other possibilities.

In other news: Vote: Benmage. I think he used this little stunt as an attempt to draw out a member of the opposing scum team.

Meh. Catch up and tell me if that is likely. The scum in this game are in GREAT position. I don't see them willing to sacrifice someone for the hint of a chance to draw out a member of the opposing scum team.

But to Benmage, she would have had no way of knowing what the scum position was until she was caught up to day 2 at least.

"other scum team" ...yielding you are indeed mafia...the play could only be done to that team because you replaced a monk...gg

She was implying that you were on one scum team, and you were dragging out the other with a ploy. Not likely, but it is a possibility. Are you deliberately manipulating words here Benmage?

f they didnt claim and I demanded this, i would've been murdered by everyone else...it was all very obvious.

And that could have been your intention. This possibility is obvious.

Kerrigan, the "other scum team" does pretty much constitute a claim of being scum.

Has everyone gone retarded in this game? Read the post you are complaining about again...

So if one monk turns up scum does that mean the other is confirmed town?
I ask because the set up still confuses me a bit.

We know that both teams have 2 scum, and only 1 of those scum

might

be on a m/m team. So we know that if a scum is hit that was on a m/m team, the other is confirmed town.

[farside22]

@scien: First thank you for clarifying the M/M position.
Second I read the post that SK said and when she says this:

I think he used this little stunt as an attempt to draw out a member of the opposing scum team.

The problem I have is the Ben is clearly baiting him to see if he is scum. I'm not going to get into the samantics of this right now but it frankly can be read either SK is scum or he is calling Ben scum trying to draw out a member of the opposing scum team.
I dont' see how Ben doing what he did is the later.

[ElectricBadger]

Meh...worst trap ever, imo. In SK's place I would have done the same thing: refused to claim - the urgency came across as an obvious ploy to make him do something without complete information. The idea that he would mistakenly claim the wrong role is absurd (when would someone claim scum?)

The 'scum claim' is ridiculous. Agree with Scien that people seem to be, shall we say, 'not critically thinking'. SK started with the accusation that ben was scum; what else would he be looking for? Outing a townie?

That said, and while I think ben is indeed scum, the vote appears pure omgus unless SK has other reasons to support it. Personally I'm more inclined to think ben was fabricating a distraction to save scumbuddy Hew. I can't believe he actually thought that trap was a great plan.