Open 219: Neighborhood Watch (Game Over)

[Sleepless Assassin]

Vote Primate

FoS Confid

(Hi again)

(Good to see Don again)

[Sleepless Assassin]

for the obvious reasons of trying to pack in an FoS on his scumbuddy(i'm looking at you confid), a bandwagon vote(primate), a lame attempt at buddying me, and an AtE(smilie) all in one tiny post.

-Scum aren't the only ones who ever FoS, obviously.
-bandwagoning in the RVS is NOT a bad thing.
-Not buddying. Just recognized your name and Confid's
-I always post a smiley at the beginning of a game. Usually it's when I confirm, but we did that by PMing the mod so couldn't do it that way.

It is unfortunate that one of the more valuable town power roles was killed by pure chance, but I don't think we should be hasty as a result of it.

Yes the deadline is relatively soon, but we shouldn't sacrifice being thorough as a result of it, let's just do what we can.

Unvote

Wow, this sounds so forced.

okay. don't freak out. but.

at some point before the end of the day our hider should claim. DO NOT CLAIM YET. it is my understanding of the role that hider dies if they hide behind scum, no? so better to be out in the open and verbalizing targets. agree/disagree?

No. At most, we hypoclaim. For example, everyone says "if I'm a hider, I hid behind XXXXX last night and will hide behind XXXXX tonight." That's what we did last time I played this setup.

Agree. It's definitely best if we know the hider's target. We can confirm townies and scum. It's worth it in this setup, when we know that there's a hider. I've been Hider before, and this makes sense.

I think I'd vote Primate if he wasn't the largest BW at this point. Maybe soon.

Unvote, Vote Pomegranate

First of all, love how you jump all over the idea of giving up our power role like that.

Second, why not vote Primate? Afraid of looking like a scummy wagoner? Massive scum tell right here.

Seeing these arguments, I'm swayed. Sorry dj.

lol that's because people are arguing against it and you don't want to look scummy.

So the scum are Pom, guy, and Primate. Cool, we'll win this pretty quickly.

[Sleepless Assassin]

now we need to see how they feel about each other.

Who?

Don't like the Pomegranate votes.

Why?

[Sleepless Assassin]

You accuse Pomegranate of "jumping all over" the power role strategy when other people had showed support for it previously then said statement. What's different from other support posts?

It just stood out when I saw it.

Secondly he already explained why he didn't want to vote Primate, the bandwagon was too large.

Too large, meaning? It looks to me like she wanted to bandwagon, but didn't want everyone to see her as scummy for jumping on the bandwagon, so she makes the cautious play by mentioning suspicion, but not voting Primate.

Also why so brash in trying to get someone to vote on a bandwagon? Enthusiastic to quick lynch while at the same time accusing a player of being scum for not voting on it.

Unvote: Beloved Princess
Vote: Sleepless Assassin

Huh?

I wasn't trying to get her to vote. I was asking why she didn't. She said she was suspicious of Primate, but the bandwagon was too large at, what? Three people?

And if I wanted to quicklynch Primate, wouldn't I still be voting him?

The fact that you seem convinced Guy0, Primate and Pom are the scum, yet you unvote Primate in order to vote Pom who had no votes on her seems very weird. Especially because Pom was V/LA.

I'm happier with a vote on Pom than Primate right now. More sure that she's scum than I am on Primate. I don't care about V/LA. She'll be back to answer even if it's not immediately.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Guy, why aren't you voting anyone?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Right, that doesn't tally up with what I thought you were doing SA. Why are you suspicious of me then?

I actually can't remember. Something caught my attention, but I can't find it on reread, so it couldn't have been anything too bad.

[Sleepless Assassin]

And what is this, a lose-lose, scenario? If I jump on the wagon, well Pom just joined the biggest wagon. If I consider jumping but don't, well then Pom isn't voting someone she finds scummy. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

How about just vote who is scummy and not worry so much about how it makes you look. Unless you are scum, then just keep doing what you are doing.

Oh, and we definitely don't hypoclaim. Because if someone claims to have hidden behind mafia, they know that that player isn't the real hider. Same if someone claims to have hidden behind a NK target that say, didn't go through. Scum use PoE and quickly narrow down the possible hiders.

It helps scum find the hider, but it helps town in case the hider dies because we get some confirmed townies which are so much more valuable than the life of the hider. Not that that matters if Guy is actually the hider, which I see he has claimed.

Dj's wagon jump without anything but

is noted. Same with Primate's jump, without

anything.

Vote: Primate.

Hand of Suspicion: Sleepless Assassin.

No, it's not OMGUS. He's trying to push a wagon that is built off of straw, if that.

Nope, no OMGUS there. Just suspecting anyone who votes you. Not the same thing as OMGUS at all.

I don't feel it is necessary to put my town tells out in public. Just helps scum adapt their game.

I don't like this, but it's not a glaring thing. Kind of feels like an excuse to throw out town reads for no reason as scum, but not a big issue on its own.

Unvote: guy0
Vote: Sleepless Assassin (L-4)

Any reason for this vote?

We still don't want the hider to claim targets, right?

Before the night, no. After, yes.

[Sleepless Assassin]

If he had claimed watcher you would've left it on there? Wouldn't have unvoted to see if there were counter claims?

@Thief: If he'd claimed VT: Yes, I would have been comfortable with a VT lynch. If he'd claimed Watcher: Probably would have provisional unvoted. i.e. "*unvote* If anyone wants to cc, now is the time".

With 2 watchers, a counterclaim to a watcher claim would be reatrded unless they could contradict the claim with their results or something.

meh. chrono's iso is short, but i don't see scum motivation for his moves.

unvote, vote: pomegranate

on the other hand 127 reads like mashmallowy fluff.

If Chrono flips scum, I can see Don as a scumbuddy for this post.

Unvote: SA
Vote:Chrono

All aboard!

And as you all know hider should not claim in this given Day. Thank you.

On the other hand, if Pom were to eventually flip scum, Opposed could be her buddy for this.

SA - I voted you for pushing the Pom wagon on such a weak set of points.

Being the first to vote Pom is pushing a wagon?

Unvote, Vote Chrono

. 'nilla claim. Nuff said.

[Sleepless Assassin]

If he had claimed watcher you would've left it on there? Wouldn't have unvoted to see if there were counter claims?

@Thief: If he'd claimed VT: Yes, I would have been comfortable with a VT lynch. If he'd claimed Watcher: Probably would have provisional unvoted. i.e. "*unvote* If anyone wants to cc, now is the time".

With 2 watchers, a counterclaim to a watcher claim would be reatrded unless they could contradict the claim with their results or something.

meh. chrono's iso is short, but i don't see scum motivation for his moves.

unvote, vote: pomegranate

on the other hand 127 reads like mashmallowy fluff.

If Chrono flips scum, I can see Don as a scumbuddy for this post.

Unvote: SA
Vote:Chrono

All aboard!

And as you all know hider should not claim in this given Day. Thank you.

On the other hand, if Pom were to eventually flip scum, Opposed could be her buddy for this.

SA - I voted you for pushing the Pom wagon on such a weak set of points.

Being the first to vote Pom is pushing a wagon?

Unvote, Vote Chrono

. 'nilla claim. Nuff said.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Well.

Guy, who did you hide behind?

If a watcher saw someone target Opposed, speak up so we can lynch whoever killed him.

Vote Pomegranate

[Sleepless Assassin]

SA can you please explain why you hammered chrono so quickly

He was pretty scummy, got ran up to L-1, and claimed vanilla. Seemed like the day's lynch to me. No sense starting a new wagon and risking another power role being outed on Day 1. Then again, in a game with watchers, maybe that wouldn't be as serious an issue as it might be in another game. Still, not something I want to do when we have a perfectly good lynch sitting right in front of us.

SA and Pom are the prime suspects here of course.

You think I've been bussing Pom for no reason?

last night I hid behind Thief. So he's confirmed as clean

Sweet. Confirmed town barring a guy scumflip at some point. Or a hider flip from anyone else.

It seemed like you wanted to start a wagon; I think that that's what's being referred to.

What's wrong with that? If I think someone is scummy, I want them lynched. If I want them lynched, damn right I want to start a wagon.

Also, can we talk about SA please? We need him to explain his premature ejaculation

0_o

[Sleepless Assassin]

1. No one has mentioned the possibility of me lying about hider at this point, because counterclaiming hider would have been a pure pro-town choice. If anyone counter-claimed hider at this point it would be a very scummy move since they didn't do it at d1. The fact that you're telling everyone that me and thief could still be scum worries me a lot.

2. It was, evidently, not a good lynch, so what you said is meaningless.

3. Your joke was not funny

1. It's possible. Unlikely, but possible.

2. Not every lynch is going to hit scum. Looked like a good lynch before we actually

saw

the flip.

3. I disagree.

SA you better explain your Pom case and your other suspects quickly or my vote will wind up right back on you.

I explained the Pom vote yesterday.

This bothers me. Trying to cast doubt on a cleared townie seems like a scummy action to take.

Pretty sure that is the exact opposite of what I was saying. I just said that Theif was confirmed barring the chance that guy is lying. Meaning that is the ONLY way Theif can be scum. Meaning we treat Thief as confirmed town unless we find out guy was lying. Which we haven't. So anyone voting Theif at all today is scum/retarded.

This looks like a major scumslip.

No.

Someone said Pom and I were scum. For that to be true, I'd have to be bussing for no reason. So I asked if that was what that person suspected.

Looking back, that was guy.

[Sleepless Assassin]

SA: Why spend time saying in case guy is lying, when you don't (or anyone else does) think there's much chance of him lying?

Because it is the only possible way that Theif isn't town. I said he is confirmed town unless guy is lying. Basically, chances that Theif isn't town are extremely low because:
-Guy would have to be lying scum (unlikely)
AND
-He would have had to claim an innocent on his buddy rather than a townie.
OR
-Guy would have to be lying town (unlikely).

So basically Theif is about 95% confirmed as town.

[Sleepless Assassin]

So what was the point of bringing all this common sense up?

Just an afterthought. My mind went like "oh sweet, confirmed town unless blah blah", so that's what I posted.

I'm pretty sure everyone in the game realized this, and realized how unlikely this is. No offense, but it's not a groundbreaking revelation.

I realize this. That's why I was kind of confused when a few people started asking about it.

The way you said this sounds like you were trying to reduce the number of confirmeds we have.

Again, exact opposite of what I was saying.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Unvote

Vote: SA

Reread the thread and I really don't like the "Thief is probably town" (not a quote) chain of events.

You disagree or...what? I really don't see what you think you're on to here.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Not even close.

What I said is that Theif is confirmed town unless Guy is lying. If we thought that was the case, we'd lynch Guy, not Theif. And I see no reason to do that.

[Sleepless Assassin]

exactly. What the post about me potentially lying was saying was basically,

"Guys let's not forget that Guy0 and Thief could still be lynched"

No. I'm getting pretty annoyed because as I've said several times, that is NOT the case AT ALL.

Lynching Theif would be stupid because it is impossible for him to be scum unless you lied.

Lynching you would be stupid because you are an uncountered claimed hider in a game where we know there is a hider.

Neither of you is being lynched. I won't let it happen. I'd die myself before I let either of you be lynched.

1. Obviously everyone had thought of that at some point, so you're just stating the obvious.

So be it. I was summing up my thoughts and noticed that you confirmed Theif, so I mentioned that.

2. I already discussed why I can't be lying since any hider with half a brain would have claimed by now, at gotten a goon lynched at no cost to the town.

Most people would. I agree. That's most of the reason why I'd stand in the way of anyone trying to lynch you.

3. It's sounds to me like you're trying to make sure that no one is confirmed as town at all so that you could, eventually, get any one of those people lynched.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to do with my statement that Theif is confirmed.

So it was a scummy comment no matter how you try to justify it.

Ok, I guess mentioning that players are confirmed is scummy now. That's cool.

Sweet. Confirmed town barring a guy scumflip at some point. Or a hider flip from anyone else.

Nowhere in here do I even imply wanting to lynch Guy or Theif. I say he is confirmed town UNLESS at some point we get exact proof from another player's flip that it isn't confirmation. I guess now that I think about it, the only way we'd get a Guy scumflip is by lynching him, but that would be a dumb thing for us to do.

Hey guys, let's lynch out confirmed players because there is a slight chance they might be lying

How did it turn into the above for people? I just don't get it.

[Sleepless Assassin]

@SA

The post you originally made wasn't that big of a scum tell, I was just pointing it out, your over reaction to my point is the bigger scum tell.

I tend to get frustrated when people are too dense to get what I am saying.

SA:
But you said that Thief was

about 95% confirmed as town.

That's a bit larger than anybody else thinks.

Really? Doesn't seem that way to me.

I think that this is stupid, because however confirmed they are to you, you received a Role PM before this game started.

It's possible that this is scum trying to placate everyone excessively, but I think that that's pushing it.

Nah. The lives of confirmed townies are more important than my own. Especially later in the game.

Shall I put Confid at L-1? I suppose I'll wait to see if the post he promised is up by the next time I check this game- some time Sunday.

Why ask permission.

Unvote, Vote Confid

See how easy that was?

You could have gained town points by bussing sooner ya' know.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Why ask permission

?

^That question mark should have been there the first time.

[Sleepless Assassin]

He said on Friday he'd post that night. Friday night, he said he'd have a post Saturday morning. Now it's Sunday morning and we haven't heard from him yet. Deadline is Wednesday night. His next post should have a claim so we aren't forced to run up a new wagon later. No majority is no lynch in this game.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Guy, who'd you hide behind?

Vote Pomegranate

The hammer and sidestepping the wagon combined with Confid's scumflip make me more confident than ever that Pom is scum.

Also, I'm confirming that if I'm the other watcher, I didn't watch Theif. Everyone else should say this before we lynch today unless they have a guilty.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Thoughts on every player because of guy's request )Strikethrough tags indicate changes made after Pom's confirmation.

Beloved Princess -

Guy makes a good point about Primate. If Primate was scum trying to switch the wagon, BP is pretty much town. I didn't find myself agreeing with much of Primate's case anyway.

I still wanna say town if Primate is scum. I don't really see her as Confid's buddy either. Still a town read.

don_johnson -He comes off pretty town.

Sleepless Assassin -Town obviously

Pomegranate -

Scum. I've obviously covered this.

I see that she's confirmed now. This changes things.

guy0 -Near positive he's town. *Waits for someone to say I'm pushing this lynch because I said "near" positive.*

Primate -Most likely candiadate for scum with Pom.

Empking -

I dunno. I wanna say town, but that's because I think Pom and Primate are the scum.

Process of elimination leans him or Don.

Tier 1:
Pom

Tier 2:
Primate
Emp

Tier 3:
Don
BP

Tier 4:
Guy
SA

Tier 1:
Primate

Tier 2:
Emp
Don

Tier 3:
BP

Tier 4:
Pom
Guy
SA

Due to me worrying that she'll be lynched I'll confirm pomegranate as town as I hid behind her last night.

Unvote

Clearly BP and SA didn't understand the point of what I was trying to do, completely ignored the fact that, for once during this game, the town would have more information than the scum, and decided to put you in the position where a quicklynch was possible.

No, I voted my top suspect. Didn't really expect 3 votes to come out of nowhere, so it seemed safe, especially because we aren't in LYLO.

Vote Primate