NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Why do I feel that everyone has forgotten that I'm part of this game?

It's probably because you haven't really been active lately. The prod that you just got today supports that conclusion.

@SerialClergyman: I honestly say I do agree with you. This game is getting confusing and I believe it's affecting the quality of my game play here. I feel like eventually I'll lose interest in this game and I don't want that to happen. That doomed town in Newbie Mafia 934 where I was town and basically lost commitment to the game (It was in LyLo). As a result, I was lynched and flipped town, thus, scum won.

Let's review the bandwagons. First, it was me and Parama, then it was Dr. Robotnik, then it was nhammen, and as of right now, it's Chronopie's turn. I honestly hope we settle into Chronopie because I'm satisfied with a lynch on him already. Who's next, foilist13? I'm tired of changing votes so frequently and I myself want a soild ground to place my final vote in.

Now who is to blame for these numerous bandwagons in the game? I personally think it's a manipulative scum tactic that is trying to confuse town with mislynches, which would lead to an easy scum victory. We should all keep this in mind for now on. Everyone needs to re-read the thread to see who is most likely responsible for all these bandwagons made.

[askbob]

I disagree with you SSBF, I personally like seeing how people react to bandwagons. For example the way nahmen reacted to his, I dunno, bandwagons help me make easier reads.

Also pman should freakin post. I mean seriously dude.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I disagree with you SSBF, I personally like seeing how people react to bandwagons. For example the way nahmen reacted to his, I dunno, bandwagons help me make easier reads.

Also pman should freakin post. I mean seriously dude.

The problem isn't that there is bandwagons (They can be beneficial if done properly), the problem is that too many bandwagons has been formed in such a short time and then disappear a couple days later. If the amount of bandwagons goes out of control, we may end up scrammbling for a terrible lynch or worse, end up with a no lynch. Eventually, we need to settle upon a good lynch candidate to lynch, but in order to do that, we need to start solidfying our vote spots.

[Pomegranate]

Why do I feel that everyone has forgotten that I'm part of this game?

It's probably because you haven't really been active lately. The prod that you just got today supports that conclusion.

Yes. But I would at expected to see my name mentioned, or be called out for not posting. Like you, I seem to be losing interest- there are to many things going on for any of them to be of much importance.

Vote: Sevis

.

[Parama]

You are completely useless.

SC has done plenty more than you have in this game, hypocrite. Besides, you're useless because you're scum and therefore anti-town, so we should lynch you anyways.

[Unsight]

Also could someone please answer my previous question. People were saying that Lowell admitted he was scum. I looked back twice but didn't see it. Could I have a quote?

Look at the last post in my ISO before this one. When vezo calls Lowell scum, Lowell says "takes one to know one" implying that Vezo knew Lowell was scum by being scum himself. Not exactly an ironclad admission but it's worth some scrutiny toward Lowell. That really never hurts anyway--I learned in Mafia 110 that Lowell only really becomes forthcoming with his suspicions when under suspicion himself. Even his pro-town playstyle usually involves a lot of coasting when no one is looking at him.

[Unsight]

Unsight's just being a brick wall, which isn't necessarily scummy by itself.

What is a "brick wall" in mafia and, if it's not scummy, why have you mentioned it multiple times? (I remember seeing another post before this one mentioning it)

[Midnight's Sorrow]

@Unsight: Someone who doesn't listen to what others are saying. Kinda do there own thing, screw everyone else. ....I think -shrugs-

[nhammen]

I was planning on making a really long post today, but I keep putting it off, because it will take too much effort. Of course, this means that my post will have to cover more information, so it will take even more effort, so I put it off even more. It's a vicious cycle. Instead of one big post, I will make multiple smaller ones.

Anyways, while rereading I noticed something:

Hidden rolefishing is scummier than blatant rolefishing. f they are Town, they have NOTHING TO HIDE.

Not buying this at all. How is it "hidden" if he's going so in depth into it? What about it is hiding?

I like parama's case on nhammen a lot. I also think its odd how chrono joined the wagon without talking about how Parama's case implicates him, but I'm not sure how I'd expect him to react to that.

unvote. vote: nhammen

You saw foilists rolefishing. And yet Parama's entire case was that foilist was not rolefishing, so my accusations were baseless. This was later proven flase. But the point here is that you

saw foilist's fishing

and at the same time

agreed with Parama's case

. Explain please.

[nhammen]

Oh goody! SSBF did a player-by-player on page 24! Let's take a look!

(Notice, I see no reason to pollute this with quotes that I agree with, because I agree with most of the reads)

askbob

: He's doing fine so far. He hasn't made a super pro-town post that everyone has loved, but he has been putting forward some efforts into the game in scum hunting and his defending of himself is adequate as well. Digging out pman as a lurker is nice as well. I have a slightly pro-town read on him.

Wait what? Putting forward some effort? scum hunting? defending himself? Where do you see any of this happening?

In his ISO I see him A) attack vezo for rolefishing B) unvote and spend many posts discussing whether people should be voting Masons (I agree that people shouldn't) C) attacks lurkers. He has stated that his supisions are lurkers + me.

@askbob Is there any reason that you think that the majority of scum are lurking?

Dr. Robotnik

: He's been lurking pretty badly. Started off by failing to explain which post of mine was suspicious. He's been parroting a bit in the game as well. Very little scum hunting has been put forth by him and most of his posts were talking about Masons. I'm getting a scummy read from him, he's currently my top suspect.

I agree with his statements about robotnik. But wait, he finds robo suspicious for mainly talking about Masons... Who else has been mainly talking about Masons? askbob!! And he thought askbob was slightly pro-town.

@SSBF Why do you find a difference in robo's talking about Masons and askbob's talking about Masons?

Lowell

: His posts hasn't been too long, but he has put up some substance in the game. He has original thoughts on the game. However, two things I don't like about him is his low activity level and that he contradicted himself once, saying that he didn't like my bandwagon at the time, but in the exact same post, he said that no matter how hard I try, I will still get lynched. I have a null read on him.

substance? original thoughts? Were you reading the same Lowell I was? I admit, there are some, but very little. Not enough to mention.

Midnight's Sorrow

: Started out completely useless, which is why I originally had a case on him. However, he hasn't really redeemed himself in my eyes. Some of his posts are too short and could have been added into another post, which almost gives me the feeling that he's active lurking. He's only made a few decent posts that actually really contribute to something. I'm getting a fairly scummy read on him.

Slightly agree. On the one hand, he could easily be a Townie that is in over his head in this game. On the other hand, it appears that he has been buddying me pretty relentlessly. I'm not sure if he is trying to prevent me from RBing him or what...

nhammen

: The current bandwagon so far. Currently not liking him. His case on folist13 in my opinion, sucks. Part of ISO: 5 were totally useless, specifically the latter part without the quotes. His defense his not been very good and he has been relatively demanding, as shown where he asked Chronopie and askbob to list out six suspects, something that is not easily accomplished, even in a large game like this. His case on Parama isn't that good either. And finally, his claim is ridiculous, as scums can be role-blockers as well. Pretty scummy read if you ask me.

I ask for 6 suspects because I want any. 6 is an arbitrary number. If I only asked for suspects, I'd probably get one, if I'm lucky. So I'm asking for as many as they can give. Sorry if that is too demanding. Also, noted that askbob, who you defended above, is one of the players that I asked for 6 suspects on.

And I don't have a case on Parama. I have a defense against Parama's attacks, but I think the attacks are stupid, not scummy.

Parama

: Initially my top suspect for having an awful case on me (Read my case on him to see why I was very suspicious of him), he has however, somewhat redeemed himself. Ever since he stopped tunneling me, he started to actually scum hunt, made a very solid case against nhammen and a few other people, and his defense has improved. I'm still slightly suspicious of him, but if he keeps improving, he'll be off my suspect list.

Solid case? Really? He's tunneling like mad, and has no case whatsoever. His logic is awful. But badlogic is not a scumtell and he tunnels as Town. (note: I have not checked if he also tunnels as scum).

Pomegranate

: I like her so far. Her activity level has been acceptable in this game. She has been doing some form of scum hunting in the game. I don't have much of a read on her right now, but I'll give her a slight pro-town read.

Activity level acceptable!? Are you crazy? Most of her posts have been "catching up" posts. WHy is this considered acceptable?

Sevis

: Nice to see him posting some substances in the game. I disagree with people on Sevis being scummy, he has been putting forth some effort into the game and did some scum hunting. I have a neutral-town read from him, because despite daily posting, I want to see more of him.

In multiscum, scumhunting does not equal Town. And his scumhunting looks off. I can still see a neutral-ish lean though.

[Sevis]

Vi, I have no idea what I could possibly say to convince you I'm not scum. You seem to be implying I should tunnel one of the more experienced players. I'll try to get a case together on either you or leafsnail, I think.

[MichelSableheart]

Thirteenth vote count of day 1:

askbob (0):
Chronopie (5):

Unsight, Leafsnail, Dry-fit, foilist13, Super Smash Bros. Fan

daniel94581 (0):
Dr. Robotnik (1):

Sevis

Dry-fit (0):
foilist13 (1):

Chronopie

Leafsnail (1):

The Goat

Lowell (0):
LynchMePls (0):
Midnight's Sorrow (0):
nhammen (6):

SerialClergyman, Seraphim, pman5595, Lowell, daniel94581, askbob

Parama (2):

Midnight's Sorrow, Timeater

pman5595 (1):

nhammen

Pomegranate (0):
Seraphim (0):
SerialClergyman (0):
Sevis (3):

LynchMePls, Vi, Pomegranate

SGRaaize (0):
Super Smash Bros. Fan (0):
The Goat (0):
Timeater (2):

vezopiraka, Parama

Unsight (0):
vezopiraka (0):
Vi (0):

Not Voting (2):

SGRaaize, Dr. Robotnik

With 24 players alive, it takes 13 votes to lynch someone.

---

daniel94581 has about 2 more hours to post before I start looking for replacements.

pman5595 has not posted in the last 48 hours and will be prodded.

LynchMePls will have limited access from wednesday 26th till monday 1st.

[nhammen]

Now obligatory mod gaming from me. Lowell is scum. If anyone knows how I deduced this gets 6 vez points.

How could you deduce anything about Lowell. He's superlurk.

Then when Parama made his big post, I went and read nhammen's post and foilist13's posts that nhammen called rolefishing. The questions foilist13 was asking could really only satisfactorily be answered by telling more about vezo's role. It really seems like Parama was deliberately ignoring that. If Parama is ignoring some things to push his case then I figure he might be ignoring others as well.

SC mentioned something really smart about how nhamman was calling out the rolefishing but not saying the person was scum. That kind of thing bugs me but it bugs me on the same level as seeing Parama call out one of Chronopie's posts as a scumslip, vote him, and then go back to nhammen justifying it with "lol he's using meta." If I see a genuine scumslip, I'm really not inclined to move my vote away so easily so seeing Parama change back to nhammen for seemingly much flimsier reasoning is worrisome. Looks more like wagon testing than scum hunting to me. SC may be onto something, but Parama's activity just makes the nhammen wagon feel dirty to me.

Interesting case on Parama... I don't know though. Bad logic =/= scum.

Oh. Well, actually, the case on Robotnik really wan't anything. The first two players on the wagon didn't really make a case at all. And yet several players jumped on stating they thought the wagon was good. That's what was suspicious. The reason I thought Robotnik was scummy was because of his response. Not the (nonexistent) case.

Makes sense...

First of all, calm down, you hardly hold any authority over me here, there are many things I don't mind doing to prove my innocence, posting links for private forums on a forum as big as this just to show I like playing defensively is not in the list.

Well nuts. I tried... I still consider you to be slightly scummy...

Bonus!
I will shamelessly jump onto the largest wagon formed on anyone (except maybe Unsight) on the Chronopie wagon (mostly because those are the people I don't trust individually, not so much because they're on the wagon).

Hey cool! So if I voted for Chrono, you'd shamelessly jump on me! You know threatening anybody on a specific wagon makes it look like you are protecting said player...

And... sometimes I prefer to gather my thoughts before posting. Specifically, when it's 1:30 in the morning.

In other news, you're on the same scumteam as chronopie. Either that or you've suffered a stroke within the last 24 hours. I guess you're hoping your ranknames will allow you to get away with this ridiculous behaviour.

Totally understand about 1:30 in the morning. That's when I finally decide to post after procrastinating all day (for example, right now). Agree on vi/chrono. BTW what are ranknames?

Here's a quick question for you guys.

Why is there an assumption that the major contributors are less scummy then those that don't? I'm curious to know what that has anything to do with being scummy besides just needing to post more?

It is hard to get a read on people that post less. So scum might try to hide by posting with little to no content.



foilist's defense of me and attack on Parama = <3
Better wording than any I used.

HOLY CRAP PAGES! I'll try to catch up as soon as possible.

How's that coming? Did you see I had asked you a question? Well here is another:
@pman Give me a list of the 6 people you find scummiest.

Look at it this way, it will give you a goal during your reread.

Wait, so foilist, you're saying nhammen's accusations against you are completely valid?

unvote, vote: foilist13

Straight from the horse's mouth, foilist admits to being scum.

Ummm...

My case was:
A) foilist was rolefishing
B) this rolefishing is scummy
A + B = foilist is scummy.

You said that my case A was invalid. foilist disagrees. He says my case B is invalid. He convinced me of this fact.

And Parama reaches for yet another case!! Go Parama![/sarcasm]

My explanation of why lowell is scum.

The mod didn't want to start the game early because lowell hasn't confirmed via PM. He then says that after lowell confirmed wants to give more time to the people with night talk abilities. He is not a mason or a monk therefore he must be scum.

Unvote nhammen
Vote Lowell

You are pulling out the last to confirm scumtell? Seriously?

Parama's case on foilist is solid. Foilist actualy says "I was blatant rolefishing" so... yeah. As far as I can tell, Foilist was trying so hard to paint parama scum that he actually began attacking himself. It's reaching to the point of hilarity. Also, he seems confused as to whether he's trying to call nhammen scum or town.

Parama has not had a solid case at all this game. I would be surprised if Parama would know what a solid case was if it was dropped into his lap.

@Parama How well did your tunneling strategy work in the last game you used it as Town?

I've only lightly skimmed everything Parama has said since he started tunneling on SSBF.

I wish I had been doing this...

You have until your next post to vote me or die a horrible death.

And you say you aren't a VI...

[nhammen]

Tomorrow, I finish my reread, and do a side by side ISO of askbob and SSBF.

[Dr. Robotnik]

Um, I unvoted him because he's being replaced. Read my post. I'm not going to vote for someone without hearing them speak.

[pman5595]

I'm sorry about my inactivity, end of school year homework has been taking up literally my entire night. I cannot be active on the weekdays on day 1. If someone is needed in my spot that is super-active, you may replace me, but I still have an interest in this game, just not the time right now.

[vezopiraka]

Great. Maybe we get chronopie lynched and I could actually do some scumhunting in this game.

Unvote;Vote Chronopie

Oh. And don't worry about my many votes and unvotes. It's my usual playstyle both as scum and as town.

[daniel94581]

I'm sorry I forgot about this just going to read the thread

[Lowell]

unvote, vote sevis

If this nhammen thing isn't happening, I want to be early on this wagon. My impression is sevis spends a lot of time worrying about his image. An ISO read brings that out even moreso.

[vezopiraka]

unvote, vote sevis

If this nhammen thing isn't happening, I want to be early on this wagon. My impression is sevis spends a lot of time worrying about his image. An ISO read brings that out even moreso.

Oh. And that is your reason for voting sevis?

Your scum in my eyes. Can the faction in which lowell is not kill him?

[nhammen]

Unvote, Vote: Foilist

Ummm... why do you keep following Parama? First SSBF, then me, then foilist. All of your votes have been following Parama.

Pman5595 hasn't posted much substance and has been less active then you, but your activity level has also been terrible and you haven't really posted much substance either. Plus, you've parroted a bit, which made you more suspicious in my eyes then pman5595.

Also, I am not attempting to form a bandwagon on you. I find you genuiously suspicious enough to warrant a vote, but I didn't say "VOTE FOR Dr. Robotnik! PEOPLE!".

Hmm. Well, I've had people parrot me in regards to the nhammen bandwagon, so I guess that works for you...and yeah, I've posted more then he has, which does make me more suspicious because I'm somehow lurking more...

And when you vote for people, its because you consider them dangerous enough to be hung. No, you may not have actively campaigned to kill me, but one other person immediate followed you in voting for me.

Actually, he clearly says that pman is lurking more than you... and then votes you for parroting. I don't remember if you have parroted anybody or not, so I'd like him to provide examples of this.

@SSBF could you provide examples of where robotnik has parroted?

According to nhammen:

Why are you worried about me using meta? This triggered some major scumvibes, so I went to his wiki page and saw Mafia 109. Which showed me that:
Parama does have a meta of tunneling.
Hard.
On Town players.
He's worse than charter...

This matches with Parama's play so far, so despite the fact that I don't like it, Chronopie still comes up as the scummier player.

He could still be playing to his Town meta.

Also, could someone check out his play in Mafia 109 and see if you agree with my read of his meta?

If someone wants to vote Timeater or The Goat or Dry-fit or etc. I would certainly provide them with company.

I would like Time and Goat to post more content. I may consider a pressure vote on one of them...

Second bolded: Kind of a flimsy caricature of my reason but it's not like you're reading.

About what nhammen has said since SerialClergyman posted - He's still not going anywhere. Of all the people he could have voted for more information, he chose pman, who is least likely to gain a wagon (or directly give information).

Lots of attempts at reads, none of which are particularly committal. It's scumhunting at its most ineffective.

This is the only reason I can find for your second voting of nhammen. I assumed any previous reasons were invalid as you declared him town in your previous unvoting of him.

"Valid" and "invalid" are words that get thrown around a lot but nobody knows what they mean. >.>
Anyway, the vote on pman makes sense as a scumaneuver when combined with the bolded - it read like a flimsy attempt to look like he was scumhunting and culminated with a very uncontroversial and useless vote on a megalurker who earned an avatar for being vig bait. Really?

I saw a player who had both lurking and scummy behavior. He needs to be gone. Notice also, that pman said he would explain his vote if anybody asked. I asked. He did not explain.

Dr. Robotnik's hopping has been noted before. He seems to be mostly targeting VIs. His list of suspects, other than SSBF and daniel, includes LMP -- who, although he certainly isn't a VI, is new. Doesn't look all too good.

Vote: Dr. Robotnik

, at least until I can finish re-reading.

So you think Dr. Robotnik is scummy because he is only targeting VI-ish players? What about a player who only votes easy targets and makes strange posts that look like they are saying something without actually saying anything? I think those are more worthy of votes.

Unvote
Vote: Sevis

I agree that sevis' behavior looks bad. I'm still not sure whether he is scum or VI. Sometimes it looks one way, and sometimes it looks the other.

...it's annoying isn't it? :/

It's like trying to talk to a brick wall >:P

Yes... yes it is...

Parama: I'm a brick wall on your side.

You really like buddying up to Parama don't you?

[Chronopie]

It's called having a town read. That and seeing where Parama's points are coming from, in a 'I could see those points being made as town' perspective, and agreeing with them.

[nhammen]

@nhammen: Why do you expect people to give out a top six suspect list? Some people may not be able to even find that many.

I answered this, but in a post that comes after this one. In case you missed it:

I ask for 6 suspects because I want any. 6 is an arbitrary number. If I only asked for suspects, I'd probably get one, if I'm lucky. So I'm asking for as many as they can give. Sorry if that is too demanding.

[vezopiraka]

@chronopie: Sorry your response is pathetic. You never said you agree with parama's posts you just voted whoever he voted for. That's what I did when I was scum too.

[The Goat]

Unvote, Vote: Foilist

Ummm... why do you keep following Parama? First SSBF, then me, then foilist. All of your votes have been following Parama.

Pman5595 hasn't posted much substance and has been less active then you, but your activity level has also been terrible and you haven't really posted much substance either. Plus, you've parroted a bit, which made you more suspicious in my eyes then pman5595.

Also, I am not attempting to form a bandwagon on you. I find you genuiously suspicious enough to warrant a vote, but I didn't say "VOTE FOR Dr. Robotnik! PEOPLE!".

Hmm. Well, I've had people parrot me in regards to the nhammen bandwagon, so I guess that works for you...and yeah, I've posted more then he has, which does make me more suspicious because I'm somehow lurking more...

And when you vote for people, its because you consider them dangerous enough to be hung. No, you may not have actively campaigned to kill me, but one other person immediate followed you in voting for me.

Actually, he clearly says that pman is lurking more than you... and then votes you for parroting. I don't remember if you have parroted anybody or not, so I'd like him to provide examples of this.

@SSBF could you provide examples of where robotnik has parroted?

According to nhammen:

Why are you worried about me using meta? This triggered some major scumvibes, so I went to his wiki page and saw Mafia 109. Which showed me that:
Parama does have a meta of tunneling.
Hard.
On Town players.
He's worse than charter...

This matches with Parama's play so far, so despite the fact that I don't like it, Chronopie still comes up as the scummier player.

He could still be playing to his Town meta.

Also, could someone check out his play in Mafia 109 and see if you agree with my read of his meta?

If someone wants to vote Timeater or The Goat or Dry-fit or etc. I would certainly provide them with company.

I would like Time and Goat to post more content. I may consider a pressure vote on one of them...

Second bolded: Kind of a flimsy caricature of my reason but it's not like you're reading.

About what nhammen has said since SerialClergyman posted - He's still not going anywhere. Of all the people he could have voted for more information, he chose pman, who is least likely to gain a wagon (or directly give information).

Lots of attempts at reads, none of which are particularly committal. It's scumhunting at its most ineffective.

This is the only reason I can find for your second voting of nhammen. I assumed any previous reasons were invalid as you declared him town in your previous unvoting of him.

"Valid" and "invalid" are words that get thrown around a lot but nobody knows what they mean. >.>
Anyway, the vote on pman makes sense as a scumaneuver when combined with the bolded - it read like a flimsy attempt to look like he was scumhunting and culminated with a very uncontroversial and useless vote on a megalurker who earned an avatar for being vig bait. Really?

I saw a player who had both lurking and scummy behavior. He needs to be gone. Notice also, that pman said he would explain his vote if anybody asked. I asked. He did not explain.

Dr. Robotnik's hopping has been noted before. He seems to be mostly targeting VIs. His list of suspects, other than SSBF and daniel, includes LMP -- who, although he certainly isn't a VI, is new. Doesn't look all too good.

Vote: Dr. Robotnik

, at least until I can finish re-reading.

So you think Dr. Robotnik is scummy because he is only targeting VI-ish players? What about a player who only votes easy targets and makes strange posts that look like they are saying something without actually saying anything? I think those are more worthy of votes.

Unvote
Vote: Sevis

I agree that sevis' behavior looks bad. I'm still not sure whether he is scum or VI. Sometimes it looks one way, and sometimes it looks the other.

...it's annoying isn't it? :/

It's like trying to talk to a brick wall >:P

Yes... yes it is...

Parama: I'm a brick wall on your side.

You really like buddying up to Parama don't you?

Dude. I posted a fairly lengthy post just this morning.