Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[Amished]

Howdy! Just confirming replacement; I'll read up as much as I can later tonight after I get home.

[Amished]

@Nacho: What makes bandwagoning excessive, and how does that differ from town bandwagoning?

[Amished]

Unvote
Vote: Cover

Scumtell in post #1 of PaltryExcuse. Lynch now.

[Amished]

@Nacho: How many times have you used votecount analysis like that and caught scum?

[Amished]

/isn't convinced

[Amished]

Yeah, except for the fact that I typically find scum too worried about appearing random and bandwagony to switch that often. Sure, they'll bandwagon, but it's hard for them to explain why they're wrong or anything to justify many switches like you're trying to pin down as scummy. I can cite one game where the top 2-3 players left alive (9? left) that were on major wagons were all town; and more where I didn't do formal analysis but the scum didn't votehop nearly as much as much of the town.

[Amished]

Unvote
Vote: Cover

Scumtell in post #1 of PaltryExcuse. Lynch now.

Hang on bro, explain this to me.

This is PE's first post:

Hello everyone! So... I'm replacing for a person who hasn't posted. At all.

I'll get an analysis up tomorrow.

Now, I don't know what I may or may not be missing, but what here is the scumtell you are referring to?

It's kinda complicated, but trust me that it's a definite scumtell. In 5? applications it's caught scum 4 times (and I know what I did wrong the one time it was wrong.)

[Amished]

Switching votes doesn't equal more points; staying on a large bandwagon and staying on it does.

That almost seems more like newby behavior; especially in a large game. Still prefer actual analysis based on play but that'll be determined after the lynch of Cover.

[Amished]

Yeah, but newbie behavior is non-alignment indicative.

@dahill1: do it anyways.

[Amished]

There are no better lynches than scum lynches.

[Amished]

@Nacho: Don't do the links yet. dahill1 needs to learn to trust me. Or die in the process. I'm not that picky.

[Amished]

Also: why the hell is anybody on scotmany unless they think Zoraster was bussing prematurely?

[Amished]

Ahh, perfect. Nacho, you can link to whatever you want to now, I wanted some reactions first.

First off, don_johnson looks town to me, Mr. Chaos (while weak) looks like a chainsawing buddy atm.

@Cove: I don't expect you to answer for his {PE's} actions, Mr. Cove; I expect you to DIE.

Anyways, explaining the scumtell (through an example that all of you should follow with for full effect)

You replace into a game. Size/length doesn't matter. You get a town-aligned role (PR/Vanilla doesn't matter either). What's your first instinct? Get to scumhunting, right? (RIGHT!) Heck, do you ever have any instinct or thought to check what your predecessor did at all? Of course not, since you know he (and you) are town aligned and whatever he did was with town intentions. Also, you know that townies can be wrong so you don't have to worry about changing a viewpoint or a stance on anybody and looking scummy because you can explain it. Therefore, you have ZERO reason to look at what your predecessor did, at all, ever. You might look for his thoughts since you know that he's town aligned but ultimately you believe in your ideas and scumhunting much moreso than anybody else's, even if you know that they're confirmed town.

Same scenario, but you get a scum role. You then have to worry about if you're under pressure, what did your predecessor say to become under pressure, you don't want to rock the boat too much and therefore you don't want to switch stances. All of this means that you look to your predecessor *first*. That's exactly what PE did by knowing that his predecessor didn't post at all.

There is ZERO/NONE/NADA/NILCH reason for any townie to look at their predecessor first and foremost. There *is* scum motivation. That makes it one of very very few true scumtells. I've done it as scum, ABR, Jazzmyn, xRECKONERx... I'm missing some here but that's some notable ones just off the top of my head.

For whomever asked: I'm currently at the top of page 26 in my readthrough, but I'll keep reading the rest of the game to fully flesh out the rest of the game's players for myself. However, that was all that I needed to see for me to cast a vote; and to ride that to lynch.

[Amished]

@Chaos: Unless I brainwashed Nacho somehow (not sure he has the requisite parts for that but (haha just kidding <3)) obviously this is a scumtell that works since he's said that he's seen it work twice. Therefore, it wasn't a "just trust me it works" scumtell since I've had to explain it before to other reluctant people since he knew exactly what I meant when I said it was in PE's first post. Your mischaracterization *and* the FoS sets you-scum up to attack me if my case isn't rock solid in defense of certain scum {Cove}. I mentioned that this is weak as there's only been one time I've been "attacked" for using this scumtell, which was by a scumbuddy of caught-scum (though we didn't lynch him that day ); but the attack was in a different manner from this. So it requires more research but you shot right up on my radar despite my town read of TSQ in the first 25 pages.

[Amished]

Claim: Vanilla

I think that "tell" is hardly a tell at all. Before I decide to replace into a game, the first thing I do is ISO the person I would be replacing to make sure I'm not replacing someone super scummy, and clearly flaked because they were under pressure.

The last game I replaced into, I replaced a cop-confirmed townie, and the first thing I said in thread was "I have finished an ISO on my predecessor, now getting into reading the entire thread". I find it hard to believe that you would put so much stock into this "tell", as it doesn't matter what your motivations are and what is better for you in the game, it is common curiosity to see who and what opinions you are replacing. It's hard to answer "why have I been left alive?" if you have no interest in what your predecessor said or did.

Amished: Scot and don are so clearly scum partners, it's sick that you won't look through the thread and see that. Without going back to check, you're replacing Dizzy right? That means you're probably town, and more than likely nacho is too (replacing mipe right?), so don decides that the time to vote me is after a few townies join my wagon, without giving any kind of reason for joining. That doesn't seem the least bit suspicious?

1) We're not talking about *you*
2) Even if we were, why would your first paragraph affect how you play? If you're town, then you know that it's false and you can almost always bring about people thinking you're more town or at least prevent your lynch. Essentially, there's really no town motivation to do your first paragraph, you'd only be worried about being scum and looking scummy; which is stupid anyways.
3) If you do/did it as a "cop confirmed townie" why didn't *you* do that here if you were town? Here's your first post, where you don't mention your predecessor at all. That does not line up with the fact that you claimed to say that the first thing you do is to check your predecessor and/or announce that to everybody.
4) I have zero curiosity into what Dizzy did or said. It doesn't affect me one iota, nor do I ever really meta anybody so reading through the game from her perspective knowing her alignment doesn't concern me either. I actually skip over dead townies in a readthrough as they really don't matter either.

5) BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT. You do not claim that anybody are scumpartners until you get a flip of one or the other. SCUM BULLSHIT ALERT!
6) I don't suspect d_j for his vote of you. He joined me voting you without knowing a case (or if I even had one). That is not the action of a scumbuddy who's lost 2 scumbuddies already. They act much more like dahill1 has in this last page (namely 1272 which is exactly how I've been "attacked" by a scumbuddy of the person I caught before)

Oh, Sando was another one that I caught with this scumtell.. I really need to compile a list of people for this...

I need to look through the rest of the recent activity too, stupid holiday weekends coming up ruining my mafia time.

[Amished]

fonz: i'm getting there. i have a talent show and work today. this will be a priority for the weekend.

if nacho and amished are town then we are in good hands

, but i second 1269. there's plenty of time til deadline.

??? There's some logical steps continuing down this road but could you clarify what you meant by the bolded?

[Amished]

ty inHim

[Amished]

For the record I thought mipe claimed vanilla too. And this is the biggest bullshit wagon I've ever seen. I wish i had a computer so I could respond to amished.

bring it

[Amished]

Prolly a phone with mobile web.

[Amished]

Dahill, you now have permission to apologize to the past-tense Amish verb.

Meanwhile, I will vote you.

Vote: Dahill

Uhh, what he said.

Vote: dahill1

[Amished]

Ok, so more fleshed out thoughts (from a sleep deprived rambling ... I don't even know what to call myself):

I don't see why The Fonz was killed; but it wasn't from the scumteam since they're murderers and slashed people throughout the nights prior. Cove was an even night murderer, so they should've been able to kill last night.

Also, since Shanba (the odd night vig) was killed N2; I don't see how a pro-town killing role for an odd night would still be alive. Mods (especially after 2 nights) kinda know the flavor behind the various kills works which is why I'm confused about The Fonz as I didn't think he was super scummy (which would constitute a pro-town kill) nor was he really obv-town up to my point in my readthrough nor through the period after I replaced in (which would constitute an anti-town kill).

Overall I'd say that it's from a pro-town player, but I'm disappointed in you that you didn't follow me saying that dahill was the one that attacked me like I was attacked in another game when I applied that tell.

Hell, The Fonz's response to Anon's request for doc protection pretty much meant (to me) that he wasn't a power role which still lends credence to the thought that it was a pro-town kill.

I also don't support a scotmany lynch in any way shape or form after yesterday. Don't even start that shit. dahill just seems to be the best way to go today.

[Amished]

@dahill: You chainsawed me for Cove, and there's not really a big reason to suspect an SK in this setup from the roles that have been lost. Also, if you really think that on any single day you believe that both end wagons are on scum you go right ahead. I refuse to believe that Scot is scum with Cove just due to them both being wagoned so heavily.

Now you're continuing something that makes absolutely no sense for scum, and trying to posture that Fonz was onto something when I already told you that it made less sense for scum to kill him than town.

[Amished]

@Yos: Not really. But he was an active, weak defender of Cove and was on the opposite wagon; both of which are "standard" (read: stupid) scumbuddy tells. With Anon claiming even night vig (and pointing it out) he wouldn't be available to be lynched and would hold a pro-town killing role in his hand for a night when the scum (assumedly) wouldn't have a NK with Cove's flip.

Going after somebody that would generally be a questionable for most reasonable towns (his "defending" wouldn't help him) over a PR doesn't seem like good scum play in my eyes.

Besides, there's the whole NK-flavor thing going for me too (murderers tend to slice, while vigs shoot; Fonz was shot)

Finally, me leading a wagon that was L-6? to a lynch based on one scumtell seems like I'd be a pretty good candidate for a scumkill too; much more dangerous than Fonz. There's just much more "juicy" targets for scum that almost certainly lost a NK'ing player for the next night than somebody like him. I give him credit as he's a good player, but the circumstances of the game as I understand them don't really add up to him being a scum kill in my eyes.

[Amished]

Mod: I'll be V/LA until Monday

[Amished]

Defending and attacking an attacker are two different things. Fonz said that he thought Cove was town. You attacked my tell that was against your scumbuddy.

What say you to 1308?

[Amished]

Fine, continue to argue with results and human psychology.

I haven't caught up overnight (didn't make any effort to) but from what I saw since I replaced in he wasn't terribly townie. What say you to my other bits of logic?

Alive pro-town NK-er that won't get lynched, mod flavor, any of that? Nothing convinces you that Fonz was NK'd by another townie (or somebody wanting to be townie)? What happened to the slashing NK then? How about that we have had vigs and they've *shot* people just like what happened to The Fonz in the day opener? How about that the scum would know that their kill has a different flavor so they wouldn't try to blend in because they couldn't?

[Amished]

dahill just flat-out isn't scum, and I'm suspicious of those that are trying to run him up. Will post more tonight.

Oh bullshit. You really think he can be this blind as town?

2 options that I see:

Town (must be absolutely, hopelessly lost in the game due to several reasons)
Scum (has a position to defend so that he doesn't get lynched for flipflopping)

You tell me which is more likely.

[Amished]

@VV: Attacking the attacker. He couldn't really attack me for anything else I said since that was my entire contribution to the game at that point replacing in. Also, he attacked it in the same way Zorblag attacked in when I called out xRx in Friends and Enemies.

That's the majority of why I feel he's scum.

[Amished]

(12 alive, 7 to lynch)
Nacho, Amish, Chaos, VV is on dahill atm in my unofficial VC

[Amished]

Quick access:

@Anon: If your vig role wasn't proveable I'd smack you upside the head and try to get you lynched right here and now. Your stupid ass questions from yesterday should never have been asked in the first place.

@don: FYI, of the current player list I've played with:
3. RichardGHP
4. don_johnson
11. Anon
12. Nachomamma8
18. inHimshallibe

[Amished]

Oh, and one more thing: Anon, you're still blind as a bat. If the "majority of players didn't think that Cove would flip scum" how the HELL did we get him lynched?

Tentative

Unvote
Vote: Yosarian2

[Amished]

I dunno, I just got a weird vibe from him today. I haven't caught up completely with how busy I've been this weekend but it just seems he's too passive and asking the too superficial questions rather than really scumhunting.

@Richard: Why do YOU feel that Yos votes are bad?

[Amished]

@Yos: You did an excellent job getting PE/Cove lynched then...

For reference:
This seems rather uninformative and pointless (as is the follow up in 1321, since you don't really refute anything I said in my position);

This seems unnecessarily overexplained and somewhat contradictory to you "trying to lynch Cove all game" that you just brought up.

This says absolutely nothing but theory.

This is your best post since I replaced in and isn't really advocating your case against Cove at all.

[Amished]

For Cove/PE: You didn't really do shit to get them lynched. I hope you realize that I was sarcastic.

For the Fonz-case thing: What I see is "the points (by Fonz on Scot) are somewhat valid, but I have a town read on him {scot}" (which sends a mixed message) followed by a not very .. convincing is the word I'm looking for? statement about why cove should be lynched over scot. It's not defending a town read that's relatively close to being lynched (scot), it's not heavily pushing a scum-read, it's just.. bleh.

Mr. Chaos NK-speculation-thing:

I'll need to look at Cove and PE first, but I'm really disliking the scot wagon. I'll get more on that in a bit.

Also, for discussion: Any idea why anon and richard didnt get nk'd last night? Tad bit odd there, IMO.

is not something I'd see anybody really regarding as an attack. It was for discussion, it wasn't an attack. In that post I'd argue that Chaos was more pushing cove/PE than richard/anon. Heck, by the order of Chaos' "points" both Cove/PE-scum and scot-town are more important to him in the game at that point. You pick out something that has a vanilla answer to it that makes you look active and helpful but doesn't make you town.

[Amished]

OH! One more thing that just crossed my mind (and not sure why it didn't before):

@Yos: If you thought/think that Fonz was a scumkill, what's the motivation that you would say he was killed because of? Rephrased: Why was Fonz scumkilled, in your eyes?

@Scot: what of don/vas are most scummy to you then if they're your top two reads atm?

[Amished]

@Anon: I believe that Scot is town.

[Amished]

Scot and Cove were the two top wagons at the end of the day yesterday. I don't even remember the last time that I've seen two scum get wagoned to almost lynch near the end of the day.

[Amished]

To elaborate: Scum have to wagon somebody. Scot (from what I saw) was pretty much the only wagon. Scum don't really wagon themselves so I believe that scot was the mislynch target of the day.

[Amished]

@scot: (about don) From Richards posting after I replaced in I figured out that he was a tracker (I thought Richard say something about his own role, could've been somebody else saying it was stupid to wagon a tracker). The only reason I knew Anon was a vig (now) was after his request for doc protection I went back and looked at what would make him say that and saw the claim later.

His order of knowledge isn't that suspicious to me since in my readthrough I haven't gotten to either claim.

[Amished]

Just saw this:

For Cove/PE: You didn't really do shit to get them lynched. I hope you realize that I was sarcastic.

That's not really true. Yos had a lot of influence on getting Cove lynched. Probably the second most.

.... Really? Really really?

You look back at the end of the day when people were pushing for your lynch. You had your vote on Cove, Yos said his little spiel; then I did my scumtell thing, Nacho immediately followed me. d_j followed the two of us, Chaos (1261) saw my reasoning behind the scumtell and followed me after FoS'ing me for not explaining fully and then Anon came back from his game long suspicion (or so) as well. inHim I believe just hammered due to the vanilla claim. So, out of the 8 to lynch, I was directly responsible for me (1), nm8 (2), d_j (3), and Chaos (4). That's half. Try again unless you can prove that Yos was the reason for the other half.

[Amished]

Also: I agree with Anon about d_j as well. I didn't know about the point where dj replaced in (negating the whole seeing where dj's coming from from my perspective) but anon's reasoning is pretty solid too. There really is no way that scum would think that they could get anon lynched so why the vote?

[Amished]

so then dj's vote would still be a nulltell and not a scumtell, wouldn't it?

[Amished]

You seem to be missing the point I'm trying to make:

In your perspective, dj "isn't that logical of a player"

Assuming dj does know about both claims, wouldn't he be just as likely to vote for anon as either alignment? What's the scumtell there for him? Town-dj would just think he's scummy or whatever, but scum-dj would make that draw attention to him. I don't see the motivation, especially since in every scum game I've ever been in we talk about PR's (claimed and potential) so scum-dj should've picked something up from that as well, wouldn't he?

[Amished]

Good, I was questioning if I should go to bed since I thought I was making sense but actually wasn't...

[Amished]

@Yos: I didn't even see your case ever against Cove/PE; so I can't comment about the validity of that. I disagree that my "stupid" tell (that works) almost got it derailed since dahill wasn't going to be on the wagon anyways, Chaos joined because of my reasoning (since I didn't see him say anything about your case) and nm8 has seen it work 3 times and followed *me* over his top scumread VV. Continue to take credit, I don't care, and it doesn't really matter.

(Fonz case response): I didn't get to the case Fonz put together either; but saying "you understand the points against scot" seems counterintuitive to thinking he's town. It may be a personal thing, but I would've countered that (if I were in town-Yos's shoes and believed Fonz-town, scot-town) by saying something along the lines of "I don't believe these are all scumtells/this is a null-tell or a town tell because/etc..." I believe this point is becoming moot however as you did explain partially your own town read, but not in a way that is going to convince other people that scot is town. Leaving this to semantics/differences of opinion in what would convince people that you're right. I DON'T like how you break down certain avenues that I could only possibly attack you on (believe fonz-town (stupid question); believe scot-town (another stupid question)) where I thought I explained myself in thinking that you weren't fully behind your argument.

(NK-WIFOM-ATTACK) Bullshit it is an attack. I could just as well as why didn't you die last night. It wouldn't be an attack. If I attempted to couple it with other evidence and tried to support my theory with you (a long time and respected player) not being NK'd; then that would be an attack. "Why didn't they die last night?" is not an attack. Also, it is a standard response to that question (that doesn't reveal alignment due to how standard it is) that there's plenty of reasons. All of which are easy to spout out due to pure logic which aren't alignment-indicative but look busy. Chaos's post was not an attack (and even if you could possibly think it was) it's an easy way for you to refute it and make you look better in the future. You aren't sticking your neck out by defending them; you've been around the block enough where such an "obvious" defense isn't associated to be a scumtell (nulltell at worst in most cases).

(Fonz kill) I'll still point back to the fact that vigs shoot (I bet Anon could confirm this by saying that who he targeted was shot). Farside should know enough of the setup (especially as a backup mod) to realize that there's a difference in kill flavor and would put the correct one out there. If DN was around I would think that this could be corrected but I haven't seen a VC from him in a long time.

[Amished]

@Nacho: (getting through some fail-tags)

I back-up modded this game with 2 different killing "factions" (a vig and the mafia). I kept separate flavor for each kill so I don't see why/how this would be any different. I would like it clarified so we can get through this whole mess but as is I think it's pointless to continue to argue over since he's not calling me scum for my thoughts on it and I'm not calling him scum on his thoughts on it.

For the theory: It's easier to say theory rather than give your thoughts on it personally as scum since it won't have any "inside information" slipup/feel to it.

For the indirect attack: I can speculate all I want about why certain people weren't NK'd. It doesn't constitute an attack, specifically when the "attack" was worded like:

I'll need to look at Cove and PE first, but I'm really disliking the scot wagon. I'll get more on that in a bit.

Also, for discussion: Any idea why anon and richard didnt get nk'd last night? Tad bit odd there, IMO.

that. "A tad bit odd" doesn't imply it's an attack, it implies it's a point of confusion. To generate discussion about something you're confused about (which I don't really have a stand-out reason that states Chaos' alignment one way or another, I don't see why he'd be lying about trying to generate discussion from either alignment since I don't believe there was much follow up to it anyways)

(For VV-scum)I'm not ignoring it per-se; I have a town-VI read on Vasu from my reading so far. I haven't really looked at him lately; but with his (lack of) participation in recent points of discussion I'm wavering on it. I'd like to pursue this further and then I'll get to other people at that point.

[Amished]

It's iffy for the theory point. I just feel town-yos would have something better to say; while scum-yos needs/wants to look active so he would answer less important questions/points with little risk.

For me, an attack is "hey, I'm voting you for doing this, this, and this" or "why did you say something like this?" or "this isn't what my meta of you says". You can question without attacking; I felt Chaos was more questioning than attacking, especially within the context of the quote where it was a third thought rather than something at the forefront of his thought process.

[Amished]

... why not tomorrow?

[Amished]

about that IAUN slot, I kinda want to lynch that today too.

Richard... well, I don't have high hopes for Richard of any alignment (and I actually did ISO him today)

I do agree with most of what you have too; though. If you trim it down to Yos, inHim and IAUN for a lynch today, I'd be happy.

However, what made you change your position from:

What?! I caught Paltry Excuse. Lolwtfyos.

Amished, learn to read.

The thing here, guys, is that I dont think don is scum anymore. Im pretty sure scumbags already know Im obvtown so the vote for me is illogical from a scum entity. Its more likely don is obnoxious townie that is reaally behind in the rereading department.

Of the choices left, we need a replacement from iam. I think Chaos, amish, nacho,

yos and inhim are all town

. So that leaves vasu, slight read town, and people that I seriously dislike: scot and richard.

Is there anyone here that thinks scot is town here?

(mostly Yos here)

[Amished]

Think there's any information to be gained from inHim hammering Cove?

[Amished]

OH! Anon: did the person you targeted get "shot" or "sliced"?

[Amished]

There's a question that I feel should be extremely relevant to this game hovering at the edge of my conciousness regarding you, Anon, but it won't come to mind atm. Anything you want to talk about?

[Amished]

Ask a question/talk about something.

Maybe it'll jog my mind into motion cause something is at the tip of my tongue but I can't spit it out.

[Amished]

Oh,

@Yos: since you caught scum, who else is scum?

[Amished]

Oh,

@Yos: since you caught scum, who else is scum?

[Amished]

@nm8: we have like 2 weeks. What else (other than your wagoning thing) do you have on VV to convince me that he's scum and not a VI?

[Amished]

Yeah...

Unvote
Vote: VasudeVa

[Amished]

lolk

[Amished]

Unvote

Why haven't you been this town before, goddammit?

I don't know if 4 scum with a pro-town vig and a claimed tracker is balanced; I might expect 5 total, but they're definitely getting down there.

I wouldn't mind lynching IAUN either. I'm getting bored with this day

[Amished]

VaVa is town.

No read on IAUN, but would not mind lynching him.

Scum read on scotmany, but take it with a grain of salt as my scum reads are seldom right.

So therefore: Scot is town since you think he's scum, and IAUN should be lynched.....

Whatever, obviously nobody else wants to replace in and the game is dying.

Vote: iamausername

[Amished]

When have you read me-scum correctly?

[Amished]

107... was that the one with Konowa-SK who took out half the scumteam?

[Amished]

The only redeeming factor for inhim is a wifom point that I've seen so far...

[Amished]

I still don't fully see the DJ hate, but whatever.

[Amished]

I really want an IAMSUSERNAME claim.

Farside, please help us here.

Also, I really want the even ttacker to claim NAO.

No even tracker claim here.

[Amished]

He wants your counterpart (i.e. the odd night tracker) to claim.

[Amished]

Well-supported setup speculation, essentially. Everyone else seems to have a counterpart.

[Amished]

LOL. Try using context next time.

Go Fish.

I'm half willing to lynch you just for that comment.

[Amished]

@Richard:
1) There's an even and odd night mafia doctor
2) There's a claimed even night vig (which really has no reason to lie since there's no counterclaim for a second kill) and an odd night vig.
3) There's an even night mafia murderer and an odd night cop dead (suggesting that there's roles for even/odd nights that are hidden, specifically the murderer)
4) So, since you have an x-night track; it's entirely logical for a y-night track to exist. Without it existing, it's less likely that your claim is from an actual townie; and we could lynch you-scum.

You saying it's WIFOM/setup speculation and it should be stopped is like me-scum in L4D mafia saying that people could've been NK'd for any number of reasons when the only reason that they were killed was because they suspected me.

Try basing a case on something that's more logical than "wifom".

[Amished]

Ugh. Seems like you did all you could, farside.

Richard is an even night tracker, right? That'd be the only thing that keeps me from voting him today.

[Amished]

@nm8: Not exactly sure what caused my newb-town read of VasudeVa. I'm going through the ISO now and early on I don't see a lot of malice there. He posts with a limited train of thought that seems to scream newb-town since he votes with his convictions at the time but isn't completely pointless like I see a lot of newbscum be.

@yos2: Other than PoE, what do you have on dj? I thought he was town after the whole Cove thing, what do you have?

[Amished]

Any reason for don over VV? They were both in your scum-read summary a couple pages ago and not sure why you're picking one over the other.

[Amished]

Any reason for don over VV? They were both in your scum-read summary a couple pages ago and not sure why you're picking one over the other.

As I mentioned earlier in the game, the timing for VV's vote for Ksun on day 1 seemed pretty key in getting Ksun lynched instead of, say, Mipe.

Vv's play since then hasn't inspired a lot of confidence, but I've got mixed feeling about him.

So dj's vote on Cove didn't help get him lynched moreso than scot on D3?

[Amished]

VOTE: VasudeVa

Finally got some time to read the middle of the game and Fonz going after VV on D2 was pretty much right on the spot; especially since we know that the doctors would've been less essential to the scumteam than the murderers so bussing a doctor would've been more understandable.

After reading through his defense, I get much less of a newbie vibe that I got early on; so I believe that he just didn't want to post that much content in order to try to fly under the radar. That's the actions of scum, not a newbie.

[Amished]

UNVOTE: VasudeVa

That's what I get for not reading everything.. Him being attacked by both Zor and Cove seems to me like he's just the newbie that's an easy target (like mipe).

On a related note:

VOTE: Mr. Chaos

Excessive buddying with scum and terrible arguments

[Amished]

@scotmany, Yos: Who is/are Cove's buddy/buddies?

(shrug) I donno yet.

I can tell you that, if Cove flips scum, Vas is town (Cove's vote on Vas looks really opportunistic) and Mipe is town (PE's attack in mipe is one of the main things I found suspicious about his play.)

Amazing what I find by actually going through the thread.

[Amished]

Anyways, the more I look at Mr. Chaos, he looks like buddying (to anyone) scum. What do you think, Yos?

I agree that the game has gone on for too long though, and I've only been here for about 1/3rd of it...

[Amished]

Pretty sure we should at least get two claims today. One for the lynch, one for the vigging.

Mr. Chaos is a good candidate for either. Vote so we can! GOGOGO

[Amished]

Also, I don't think we should get a claim for a vig, in case it's town; then scum know who not to kill.

[Amished]

@farside:

UNVOTE: VasudeVa

That's what I get for not reading everything.. Him being attacked by both Zor and Cove seems to me like he's just the newbie that's an easy target (like mipe).

On a related note:

VOTE: Mr. Chaos

Excessive buddying with scum and terrible arguments

Missed the vote in that post..

nacho: What say you to the opportunistic attacks by Cove/PE on VV's slot? Does that not sway you at all? What do you think of Mr. Chaos?

[Amished]

@mod: Can we get a prod on Mr. Chaos? It's been like a week

Not sure who else hasn't posted, but it's been super slow

[Amished]

I'm really sorry guys I'm going to have to replace out. Not because I don't want to play any more but I have finals coming up tomorrow and after that I'm pretty much gone all summer at camp.

Any word on a replacement here either?

Also, Richard is close to a prod.

[Amished]

scot hasn't posted in a week either

[Amished]

Don't worry about scot then for right now. Vote for Mr. Chaos

[Amished]

YAY! Now to recruit 5 more people...

Nacho, Yos; we can go after dj tomorrow?

Anon, come back and vote with me <3!

Scot, when you come back, follow Yos onto Chaos

Richard: be your normal random self and vote for whomever has the most votes (which will be chaos, I promise )

[Amished]

@Mod: In light of the replacement need, could we get a longer deadline extention?

[Amished]

Bull I know how it is. Comment on don, what do you think of Mr. Chaos? There's 62 pages of stuff to comment on.

[Amished]

I think it's creepy that I pretty much called what would happen so far =\

[Amished]

Also:

@scot: The reason we're not dealing with Vas today is because Cove/PE made terrible reaching attacks against VV. In a one mafia game, they aren't likely to do that against their scumbuddy. That suggests that VV is just newb-town instead of newb-scum.

[Amished]

OMG.

I hate people.

Lynch the bum anyways, maybe try to find one for dahill1 though?

[Amished]

Oh yeah, you're still in this game too, inHim.

What are your thoughts on any one player?

[Amished]

*sigh*

nm8, come back. Mr. C is at L-2

[Amished]

on Mr. C: (12 alive, 7 to lynch)

Amished, VV, Yos, scot, inHim, nm8, dj.

that looks like 7 to me...

[Amished]

That's been all since the last votecount... >_>

[Amished]

oh. It was a quote of one before that. farside just must've missed it; but it was a legit vote if you go back.

[Amished]

Apparently my quote of the post where I voted Mr. Chaos didn't count... O.o It was on page 61.

I really don't care anymore; I'll revote him without a claim if he's really replacing out. This game needs a kick in the ass and I think he's scum.

[Amished]

I'm going out golfing. If by tonight I don't hear word either way from anybody I'll hammer. (Probably about 10 hours)

[Amished]

That works. Good night!

[Amished]

I'm still here. It should be Lynch +1. I'm kinda waiting for the flip at the moment. Everything I think is out there already so there's not much more to comment on without new content.

[Amished]

Nice shot.

@Richard: Your result?

[Amished]

Need an Odd night killer.

3. RichardGHP
4. doc_johnson Quagmire
7. VasudeVa
8. Amished DizzyIzzyB13
11. Anon
12. Nachomamma8 mipe
17. Yosarian2 springlullaby
18. inHimshallibe
20. dahill1

Richard (depending on results); dj and inHim are my top suspects. I don't see how we can lose at this point with 1 scum in 8 people if we just lynch the people aren't really pro-town.

[Amished]

You know, there's this thing that people give when they vote. It's called reasoning, you guys ever heard of it?

Obviously you haven't, since you didn't give any either.

[Amished]

ESPECIALLY since you're voting for a claimed vig, where there's no counter-claim and two kills on when he claimed to be a vig.

[Amished]

Vote don_johnson

@Richard: why does it matter?

[Amished]

It doesn't matter which is lynched first, to be quite honest. If it was mylo right now; then there would be 3 scum left and 7 scum in a 20 person game? With mafia power? Not bloody likely. We shouldn't be anywhere close to mylo/lylo after securing 3 correct lynches in a row (and a correct NK after that); even accounting for the modkill.

Besides, this does jive with my own personal view. I tend to find power roles like mad and attack them for it. Who did I attack D4? for a while? Yos. Course, this doesn't mean anything to you all, but voting dj definitely should be the course for today.

[Amished]

That should be a lynch...

[Amished]

Good deal. Fun playing with you Yos; I think this was the first time ever..

[Amished]

Now you just need to learn how to not be a scummy townie in the first place! Cove/PE was literally the only reason I didn't want to lynch you.

[Amished]

Scumteam of: scotmany, inHim, dj, Cove, Zoraster, and ksun.

Going back to when I came into the thread:

@nm8: looks like your excessive bandwagoning accusation on VV didn't really work this game..

Shoulda seen dj's vote of Cove for what it was; that's really weak in retrospect =\
scot *was* the buddy attacking me like that; hurray for confirmation

Anon gets some serious respect from me; you were pretty much right on on everybody since I've replaced in. The killing of scot was perfect, if you go back there was a lot of "maybe scot is town, maybe he's scum" that I don't know if he would've gotten to a lynch with the current people.

Also, I thought this was kinda fun:

Need an Odd night killer.

3. RichardGHP
4. doc_johnson Quagmire
7. VasudeVa
8. Amished DizzyIzzyB13
11. Anon
12. Nachomamma8 mipe
17. Yosarian2 springlullaby
18. inHimshallibe
20. dahill1

Richard (depending on results);

dj and inHim are my top suspects

. I don't see how we can lose at this point with 1 scum in 8 people if we just lynch the people aren't really pro-town.

[Amished]

@scot: Then we'll agree to disagree on the tell.

However, had you killed Anon; I would've outed myself as the odd night watcher since I watched Anon on N3 (Izzy watched Yos N1; and I watched Yos N5)

[Amished]

Yeah, I went through and saw you were on pretty much every lynch inHim... Jeez.

@Richard: why would you fake something like that?

I do think it should've been quite swingy; town had a lot of power to get rid of a *lot* of scum

[Amished]

I'm taking up a new playstyle in all games I sign up for; you might just approve of it.

Like Phillip Morris approves of anti-smoking campaigns?

[Amished]

That's what you get for thinking, Shanba. You die. >_>

[Amished]

Yos is being overly harsh on Amished. His tell is actually good, and makes sense, I just didn't think it was infallible

Oh, for the record; I didn't actually have a problem with Amished's tell, or with his play. The attacks I made on it day 4 were completly tactical. Note I didn't attack his tell at all until after we lynched the scum; day 4, I was trying to pick a fight with an obvious townie to make sure I didn't get nightkilled that night (I wasn't actally convinced the scum couldn't kill on even nights at that point), but to do it in such a way as to make sure that neither me or him would get lynched over it.

That makes me feel a lot better. I'm gonna have to add that into my repertoire...

[Amished]

Oh, and to Fonz? who commented about me not viewing inHim as town due to wagons: I've been burnt a couple times by bussing partners (Sotty7 especially comes to mind); so that doesn't really factor in. Another way of looking at it; I didn't see inHim post thoughts on other people and push for their lynch. To magically hop on and find scum to that degree without many thoughts of your own is a null tell. Evaluate the whole play, not just being on a wagon.

[Amished]

Yeah, you picked the right person; at times I can step back and realize if I'm talking to town or not; if you can tunnel on somebody like that it's a solid play to fly under the radar. A thought like that never would've come up for me.