NY 117: The Vanillaside (Game over)

[DemonHybrid]

So, I think what you're basically trying to get at is that you feel like his post basically just pointed out the obvious and that it looked like an attempt to seem like he was analyzing stuff when in actuality he wasn't.

Why the emphasis on "somewhat scummy"? You voted him in that post - wouldn't that mean that he was your scummiest pick at that moment?

Sort of....basically, I think he's trying to look pro-town when the very very basic concept of that post is something town shouldn't be worrying about at this point in the game (The very beginning of Day 1). The end of the game shouldn't matter at this point, and he's thinking way too far ahead. Therein lies the scumminess.

"Somewhat scummy" meaning that was one of the few things that added up to my decision to vote him, not the sole factor.

[xRECKONERx]

It feels pretty grande, actually.

Of course, it's probably bad, because this will encourage to play as shitty as possible and not give a fuck since I'm conf-town.

If you do that, I reserve all rights to push for your death, mmmkay?

No, you don't, because I'm confirmedtown and pushing the lynch of confirmedtown is seriously a stupid idea.

[RayFrost]

It feels pretty grande, actually.

Of course, it's probably bad, because this will encourage to play as shitty as possible and not give a fuck since I'm conf-town.

If you do that, I reserve all rights to push for your death, mmmkay?

No, you don't, because I'm confirmedtown and pushing the lynch of confirmedtown is seriously a stupid idea.

It was a joke, man. Why so serious?

[xRECKONERx]

Dumb joke.
Incognito/DemonHybrid exchange feels town-on-town.

[RayFrost]

Ray and Demon butting heads like this is remarkable as they are both voting for SSBF still.

How likely do you consider each other to be scum? Has this effected your read of SSBF?

I lie attacking things.

As for why demon, I'll let you know in a bit.

And there is no relation between my demon attacks and my vote on SSBF - I can have multiple suspects.

@ Reck:

I'm stupid in the morning. Sue my porphyria.

[RayFrost]

EBWOP:

Should be "like" not "lie"

[RayFrost]

Considered me surprised that RayFrost actually defended my actions in #98. But I don't have a soft-spot for this, especially since it doesn't really make much sense that he is defending some of my actions, yet is voting me at the same time. Definently will keep a closer eye on him.

It wasn't a defense of your actions. It was pointed a failure in Demon's attack. I would've thought you had learned the difference by now.

This entire post scream wrongness to me.

The first 3/4 of the post is pretty much stating the obvious on not lynching immediately and not waiting until deadline. The whole 29% thing isn't very helpful either... seriously. It's an empty post up top.

His response to socrates on his vote was fine

, but his comment about MPR seems like a lot of stretching.

1. Wait a minute. You said that this entire post contained of wrongness, yet you said my response to socrates on my vote was fine. That indicates that not everything about my post is wrong, these two things kind of contradict each other.

Defense below:
2- Point me to one person before that post about the bankable days who suggested that we

both

do not lynch as soon as possible and not wait until deadline. I honestly doubt that was super obvious to everyone.
3- About the 29% thing, lynching when we have around 29% of the deadline left will give town more days to find scums overall, leaving more room to scum hunt and less rooms for mistakes.
4- How is my comment regarding MehPlusRawr streching? I was responding directly to that post and expressing that I didn't like the post at all.

1. That's semantics. If something "screams wrongness" it means I dislike it. Would you prefer that I slightly altered it to say "the majority of this post screams wrongness" instead?

2. I hadn't noticed the bankable deadlines - I was considering raw play in that, in general play, it is crucial to not lynch early or late, making the whole discussion over it by you rather pointless. I repeat:

the obvious play for town is to not lynch as soon as possible and to avoid a deadline lynch

. 3. Even with bankable deadlines, I don't see much point in carefully planning out the deadlines to try and find an optimal time spread - it will change depending on new information anyway, making it too variable to matter.

4. The post part in question (put for personal reference)

Oh, hey, I don't feel like shouting. Let's wagon someone else. I have a feeling this MPR dude is town.

Why is he concerned about a bandwagon that isn't even based on him being scummy? It's not like we're planning on lynching him yet.

His post doesn't display a worry about his wagon past it being on him - MPR's PoV would be that he was town, so wanting a wagon on somebody else is a natural follow through regardless of how concerned one was about the wagon.

This looks like not reading hybrid's posts - it can be seen that hybrid said that he's concerned/worried about being lynched

Exactly why do you think that I was skimming DemonHybrid's post? I was responding to the same quotes, but wanted to look at it more.

And no, I'm not *concerned* that I'll be lynched, as such. I figured that I should comment on the fact that I'm the closest to dying as of yet.

Did we ever say that you were concerned about being lynched? The best I could find was that you were concerned over a RVS bandwagon. Also, I'm not sure how the "Let's wagon someone else!" comment was related to commenting on you being the closest to being lynched. I think you're overreacting on the situation.

When hybrid had quite clearly stated that MPR was

concerned

worried about being lynched

I beg to differ on the first point - it's happened in the past... even in games I'm in. Second quote - two people can read the same thing and get something different out of it, your post implies the bandwagon will lead to a lynching, which would be the concern about the bandwagon in of itself (which I think is what MPR read as well)

Usually, accidental quick hammers happen within newbie games or intentional scum quick hammers. These put a lot of heat on the scum if they intentionally did it and they are usually lynched without hesistation. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but considering nearly everyone here has some form of experience with Mafia, I honestly doubt people would be stupid enough to quick hammer.

As for the second point, I did not imply that a bandwagon automatically leads to a lynch. I understand that bandwagons =/= lynches. If I did say that MehPlusRawr was concerned about being lynched, I would have said that he was concerned about being lynched.

First bit: accidental hammers can happen from people not knowing the vote count as well (and has happened outside of newbie games that I've been in). Scum that quickhammer will have a lot of heat on them

regardless

of your comment, but eh...

Second bit: That doesn't even counter my point that

people can misunderstand what is said quite easily

. (probably aren't countering this because it's a fact...)

[Hoopla]

Day 1, Vote Count #2

With fourteen alive, it takes

8

votes to lynch. Deadline is schedueled for 22:00 GMT, August 16th <Countdown>.

DemonHybrid -

3

(Socrates, SpyreX, Nachomamma8)

Super Smash Bros Fan -

3

(DemonHybrid, RayFrost, xRECKONERx)

RayFrost -

2

(Ellibereth, Seraphim)

MehPlusRawr -

1

(Super Smash Bros Fan)

SpyreX -

1

(MehPlusRawr)

Socrates -

1

(Korts)

Korts -

1

(Incognito)

Not voting -

2

(Jack*, vezokpiraka)

*Asterix denotes unconfirmed players

[vezokpiraka]

Anything intresting in the last 6 pages?
I am always down for a lynch on DH

Vote DemonHybrid

[RayFrost]

Anything intresting in the last 6 pages?
I am always down for a lynch on DH

Vote DemonHybrid

Lots of interesting things starting page one all the way to page 6.

Why not read it...?

[vezokpiraka]

Too many walls of text.
If you can tell me it would be very helpful.

[vezokpiraka]

I did a bad thing. I read the entire thread out of boredom.
Now I am sure my vote is where it should be. On scum.

[DemonHybrid]

Anything intresting in the last 6 pages?
I am always down for a lynch on DH

Vote DemonHybrid

I did a bad thing. I read the entire thread out of boredom.
Now I am sure my vote is where it should be. On scum.

So, no thoughts, whatsoever?

I'm giving Nacho the benefit of the doubt, since he said he'll give his reasoning sometime today, but please find examples and try to convince us how this isn't just completely blatant bandwagoning.

[vezokpiraka]

I don't need to do that now.

[Korts]

For fuckssake, can't sleep in peace?

I'll be catching up later today.

[MehPlusRawr]

DH is one of those people that are pretty difficult for me to read.

Also, heh, I've posted more in 140 posts than I did in a 2000 post game as scum.

However, I did just ISO DH, and so far, he's been pretty passive. Though he weakly posts twice about my wagon, he soon drops it and defends me as town- I notice, however, that most of my wagon had dropped by this point. There's a possibility that DH was scum trying to push a lynch on me (before he realized that my wagon was RVS/stupid), then attempted to make it look like he hadn't pushed a wagon on somebody who wasn't scummy.

I'm usually way too paranoid about stuff like this, though. Just pointing that out.

Also, "Attempted to make it look like he hadn't?" Seriously, me? *slaps myself around a bit with a large trout*

[MehPlusRawr]

Also, heh, I've posted more in 140 posts than I did in a 2000 post game as scum.

For the sake of accuracy, apparently this is wrong. Somebody said I had 13 posts- I had 31. *shrugs and goes back to eating breakfast*

[xRECKONERx]

MPR - the more you keep mentioning how different your meta is now compared to your scum meta, the more I want to

punch you in the mouth

lynch you.

[Seraphim]

Hey guys, can we lynch Vezokpiraka? He confirmed but didn't post until now, obviously meaning he was getting coached in the scum QT.

Unvote
Vote: Vezokpiraka

[vezokpiraka]

I confirmed the moment I got my role.
That was at 10 : 30 PM here. I then went to sleep and when I wake up 6 pages.

[Seraphim]

Why can you explain your absence but you can't explain why DemonHybrid is scummy?

[DemonHybrid]

I don't need to do that now.

And why not, since you seem to have the time and the desire to make a case against me? Withholding information is anti-town, and it doesn't help us out in the least.

FoS: vezok

Also: MPR, I'm actually in your boat right at the moment. I picked up a few games too many, so it's a bit hard to keep track at the moment and stay vigilant. I'm also working two jobs today, so I'm trying my best to stay active in all of these games.

[DemonHybrid]

However, I did just ISO DH, and so far, he's been pretty passive. Though he weakly posts twice about my wagon, he soon drops it and defends me as town- I notice, however, that most of my wagon had dropped by this point. There's a possibility that DH was scum trying to push a lynch on me (before he realized that my wagon was RVS/stupid), then attempted to make it look like he hadn't pushed a wagon on somebody who wasn't scummy.

Not really.

My posts were simply this before my vote on SSBF:

I voted for you for RVS. I said that you being serious (posting in non-caps) at the same time that you said everyone should vote for someone else was weird. I asked about your contradiction. I left to go do some things and came back to the response to your wagon, which I found favorable. Perhaps it's bad timing, but it's not something I could have controlled.

[The Master Hand]

1. That's semantics. If something "screams wrongness" it means I dislike it. Would you prefer that I slightly altered it to say "the majority of this post screams wrongness" instead?

Yes, because it makes more logical sense and it wouldn't look like a contradiction.

2. I hadn't noticed the bankable deadlines - I was considering raw play in that, in general play, it is crucial to not lynch early or late, making the whole discussion over it by you rather pointless. I repeat: the obvious play for town is to not lynch as soon as possible and to avoid a deadline lynch.

Most people tend to lynch when there's less then fourty-eight hours left in the deadline. That's very close to a deadline lynch. Lynching six days before the deadline is still relatively close to the deadline, but it's not a deadline lynch either.

3. Even with bankable deadlines, I don't see much point in carefully planning out the deadlines to try and find an optimal time spread - it will change depending on new information anyway, making it too variable to matter.

Given the player list, I find it highly unlikely that we'll receive a replacement due to flaking anytime soon. Even with replacements, they do not = deadline extension unless the deadline is very close to the deadline and right now, I'm not seeing that happen in this game yet. Also, planning on when to lynch can give us more time in the long run to find scums.

His post doesn't display a worry about his wagon past it being on him - MPR's PoV would be that he was town, so wanting a wagon on somebody else is a natural follow through regardless of how concerned one was about the wagon.

Wanting a wagon on someone else means that you want pressure reduced on yourself and when done later in the game then when he did it, it becomes a lot more evident and a lot more scummier. Considering that he did it during RVS, I take it as mildly scummy, but it becomes a serious scum tell later on.

When hybrid had quite clearly stated that MPR was

concerned

worried about being lynched

This is wrong. DemonHybrid stated that he didn't like how MehPlusRawr dropped his yelling act by the time that post came along. He also stated that he thought MehPlusRawr was scum at the time, so he kept his vote on him until switching to me later yesterday.

First bit: accidental hammers can happen from people not knowing the vote count as well (and has happened outside of newbie games that I've been in).

That is because they didn't read the last vote all the way up to the latest post before accidentally hammering and I honestly doubt most of those accidental hammer happened during RVS. They need to read before hammering anyone.

Second bit: That doesn't even counter my point that people can misunderstand what is said quite easily. (probably aren't countering this because it's a fact...)

Everyone view things differently, that is a fact that I will give you, but it is not a fact that bandwagons will lead to lynches. Are bandwagons necessary for lynches? Yes they are, but not all bandwagons will lead to lynches.

---

Too many walls of text.
If you can tell me it would be very helpful.

Don't expect us to do your work for you. 150 posts is not really that much to look over and I highly doubt you'll spend over thirty minutes looking over the thread, so there isn't an excuse for this.

[MehPlusRawr]

You're not in this game.