NY 120: Flash mafia 2. GAME OVER

[mikeburnfire]

Oh, hai guys.

vote: Oman

[mikeburnfire]

You guys are making my job so much easier. Consecutive Serial Killer wins, here I come.

unvote, vote Porochaz

[mikeburnfire]

Espeonage wagon is too easy.

[mikeburnfire]

So that's four wagons of 3, if we pretend Oman knew syntax.

Porochaz, Parama, Tripod, and Espeonage.
I hereby declare these four players off-limits until tomorrow. So sayeth MikeBurnFire. So shall it be.

unvote, vote Oman

[mikeburnfire]

181 posts, 4 of them mine.

Serious post Saturday perhaps? Maybe Sunday.

[mikeburnfire]

unvote, vote untrod tripod

Deadline soon, and I have no idea who scum are. My gut tells me Esp is town, so I'll go for the second-highest wagon.

[mikeburnfire]

Mbf you lazy son of a bitch deadline is in 5 days.

As a Serial Killer, I really don't care who dies, but you guys probably should!

[mikeburnfire]

As it stands, I'm fine with killin Tripod.

[mikeburnfire]

Sorry I'm being useless. This game really doesn't compel me for some reason. Going to force myself to sit here and read this game tomorrow. Even though deadline is rapidly approaching, a good lynch can still be made, I suppose.

[mikeburnfire]

I disagree, Ythill! I think that keeping the vote count so low is great, because if some sudden votes are made, the lynch can reflect a lot on those people!

unvote, vote RichardGPH

More Richard votes people! Seriously, he goes after the easy Espeonage wagon, stays on it until he finds a better wagon with Porochaz and votes him with terrible reasoning, putting him very close to a lynch. Notice how he quietly unvotes once he squeezes a claim out, and now he's going after the

new

easy wagon.

Richard is scum, and if you vote him now you will look really good when he turns up dead goon.

[mikeburnfire]

^Did Ythill just admit that he knows that I'm town?

[mikeburnfire]

I thought you were SK .-.
Did you lie to us?

I used to me. I got better.

[mikeburnfire]

vote: untrod tripod

[mikeburnfire]

Geez, I have no idea who the scum are. Somebody present me a case. I will unabashedly hop on whichever one is most convincing.

[mikeburnfire]

I can't find the case on Oman. What post number is it?

[mikeburnfire]

MBF had a reversable "I don't know" vote on UT which he seemed to cast more to spite/avoid the Esp wagon than anything. When UT became a clear contender with a three vote lead on the nearest competitor, MBF slipped off with a hard push against Richard. It might have been a chainsaw, it was certainly the most emphatic post from MBF and it was entirely out of the blue. Wagoning was the reason MBF stated for his suspicion, which is odd because wagoning was the excuse for his own vote on UT.

Well, there was a lot of reason for me to go after Richard. I had a case and everything. If you think I did it to deter the UT wagon, then let me assure you that I am not above putting my vote back where it was before I misplaced it. Although, what was the case on UT again? I never really had a reason for my vote, but it seems to be pretty strongly gaining momentum.

[mikeburnfire]

It's mostly a placeholder vote, but I also wouldn't mind lynching him. Could still be scum, and I'd look a lot better. Still, I'd need to see the case.

Altho, A cursory glance leads me to think that you are making good points about Oman.

[mikeburnfire]

Hey, at least I tried. If RGH was scum, I'd be super-confirmed now.

If UT and I were scum, then my sudden, uncharacteristically loud jump from UT to RGH would have been a dumb move to make, since it is abnormal behavior for me (so far this game), and nobody else really showed an interest in lynching RGH. Essentially, I would have chosen an uphill fight that, if I lost, would have heavily implicated me.

Regardless, I'm still not opposed to a UT lynch if I can get a good case.

[mikeburnfire]

Is it just me, or did MBF perk up when we started talking about his connections to UT?

You heard me 'perk up' because it's easier to defend myself than to go on the offensive. And what are you voting me for now? Because you think UT is scum and I'm his scummate? If so, your sudden switch off the UT wagon looks worse on you.

I like UT's case on Luchris.

[mikeburnfire]

Well, that's what your statement made it look like.

[mikeburnfire]

Yes, I suppose "MBF doesn't care about this game" is an appropriate summary. I

want

to get into it, but whenever I start reading from the beginning my mind goes blank, like when you read two pages of a book, then realize that you didn't actually absorb anything.

As for the case on Luchris, nothing positive can be seen by me about him, but nothing really scummy either. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but there just doesn't seem to be enough evidence to compel me to go after him.

Oman, UT, volkan, and ythill were a part of the RGH wagon yesterday, with ythill only jumping off because he knew that RGH was going to be the lynch even without his vote. I wouldn't mind voting UT or Oman based on how they joined the mislynch yesterday. I'd prefer UT since he voted after Oman, and because he admitted to not thinking RGH was scum when he placed his vote.

As it stands, I'm already voting UT, so I'll leave my vote there.

Oman: why are you voting me? Deadline vote again?

Ythill, are you voting me as "Even if he's not scum, he's a liability"?

[mikeburnfire]

Wow, that's a pretty shitty reason, Oman. You tempt me to move my vote.

What difference does the order make that close together?

Because the latter could be following the lead of his scummate. Alternatively, the latter could see townsfolk latching on and try to slip on as well.

Are you going to keep guessing?

I'm a busy man. Random.org?

What did you mean by this

I like UT's case on Luchris.

and does it affect your read on UT somehow?

I said it off-the-cuff. Upon closer inspection, it's not all that spectacular.

[mikeburnfire]

You either go after the scum hard and fast so they can panic and make mistakes,

I totally did that. Except I did it on a townie.

[mikeburnfire]

Ah, well that's actually a pretty good reason, I'll give you that. You give me too much credit, as I'm not smart enough to think like that. Still, I can't refute it. And I can't refute the other reason you won't give me, so I guess I'm at an impasse with you.

As I said, I'm willing to lynch either Oman or UT today, with my preference being UT.

unvote UT, vote Oman

.

[mikeburnfire]

[mikeburnfire]

Damn. Should have pushed for UT's lynch more.

[mikeburnfire]

Hi.

vote: Ut

[mikeburnfire]

I'll play Devil's advocate here. Luchris is scum because he has been on doomed wagons? Wouldn't scum actively try to get on actual wagons to help scum get lynched?

[mikeburnfire]

I don't see the case on Luchris.

... is what I'd say normally. But I haven't had time to read this thread, so expect an actual response in a few days.

[mikeburnfire]

Heh. It's been a long time since I've been lynched while town.

Oman's death narrows things down to MBF being highly responsible for the change to Richard.

Even with Oman alive, I will admit that Richard's death was almost entirely the result of my push on him. It's because I thought he was scum, and I was the only one who was willing to consider it.

If you think I'm inconsistent and reckless, you're right. It's because I'm not feeling involved in this game. I've been wrong twice so far, and I really have no idea who the scum could be. I thought Oman and UT were scum, but Oman turned up town so maybe UT is as well. Of the 8 other players, I have no idea who would be scum. Honestly, not a single suspicion. So I won't feel

too

bad if you lynch me. I am feeling pretty useless at this point. I'm a lot more useful when I'm scum.

[mikeburnfire]

Every time I check this game I've forgotten who I has last suspected, so I look back a few posts for something to talk about. It leads to me behaving very reactionary. About UT, I first said in ISO3 that he and 3 other players were off limits because I wanted to see what would happen if we were forced to choose from the other 8. Nobody listened to me, so I dropped it. In ISO5, it seemed to be between Esp and UT, and I had a gut feeling that Esp was town, so voting UT was only logical to vote him. I felt pretty indifferent to killing him since then, more consistent than you're giving me credit for.

[mikeburnfire]

Maybe people will start talking if I put Lurchris at L-1.

[mikeburnfire]

Interesting. This is the second day in which a rising UT-wagon was thwarted by a switch to another player midday. Somebody with more time should look into this.

[mikeburnfire]

Parama, why is UT town? Give me a good reason, I will gladly push Luchris's lynch ahead of my own.

[mikeburnfire]

Ythill, the case you made is very persuasive. Although I feel that IS is the most pro-active player here, you have brought his strange behavior to my eyes.

vote: InternetStranger

Still waiting for the reasons why UT is town. I am also having difficulty finding a case on Luchris, although I believe I've said this before. I wish he'd stop buddying with me though.

[mikeburnfire]

Overreaction much? There's only 2 votes on you, and I only voted you because your being on your wagon seemed more palatable than my stale vote on UT. Regardless, I think that you defended yourself adequately enough. And since people ignore me when I ask for cases/defenses of other players,

vote: Luchris

. He is now at Lynch-1.

On a related note, I've had a bad gut feeling on Ythill for awhile now. But whenever I follow my gut it always betrays me, so I never followup on it.

[mikeburnfire]

Luchis or UT. Whateva, hurry and lynch one of them.

[mikeburnfire]

Luchis or UT. Whateva, hurry and lynch one of them.

Weren't you one of the people who vote-flashed IS? Why isn't he on this list?

Haven't we already been over this?

Every time I check this game I've forgotten who I has last suspected, so I look back a few posts for something to talk about.

[mikeburnfire]

Given that both Luchris and I.S are at 3 votes, minus my own, I would be willing to jump off is I.S got another vote, if only to avoid a lynch. But seeing as how we're already 0/4, I don't think a fresh replacement scum would feel the need to motivate the town as much as I.S tried, and would prefer Luchris at this time. You may castigate me as being easily manipulated, and perhaps you're right, but I feel more comfortable on the Luchris wagon.

[mikeburnfire]

Although I don't have much credit to speak of, voting players based on a scumminess points system is silly.

[mikeburnfire]

Well, I wasn't too sure about Luchris's role, but now I think he's truth-telling town, only because mafia would really want a roleblocker dead, and after the claim there was a rally of support to lynch him.

A role like this could have been tested, couldn't it? Ah well, it can't be helped now. Let's see that flip.

[mikeburnfire]

So, speaking of trying to coast, mbf has done nothing all game but ask for votecoaching and posting oneliners.

vote mbf

Hey, what about that time I strongarmed a lynch on Richard? You give me too little credit.

[mikeburnfire]

Also, when did we decide UT isn't scum? I think he could be.

[mikeburnfire]

Well I'm town too, so if you could point me to the evidence that shows UT isn't scum, I would be grateful.

[mikeburnfire]

Also, seeing as how we are likely in LyLo, throwing two votes on somebody who hasn't even posted yet is dangerous, if not incredibly scummy. I request that the votes on me be withdrawn for now.

[mikeburnfire]

Vollkan, I agree that your point system is no good. I can understand doling out points for scummy behavior, but if you reduce it to a point system, it loses a lot of context that is subject to change. Also, you never seem to subtract points that you have given, so when I've explained my actions that seemed scummy, I don't change in your ranking like I should. Additionally, the difference in points that you have assigned is very slim, so much that a few townie mistakes or speaking missteps could swing your opinion.

Parama is scummy for his recent posts "Fishy, IS, and vollkan are scum, and I will vote them because I am willing to bet the game on it. No, wait, vote MBF". But, such crazy behavior could be from a frustrated townie, and seeing the amount of effort he's put into this game, I believe that this could be the case. I'm indecisive on his lynch.

IS has recently attracted my eye, though. For one thing, he was one of the people encouraging a lynch after the roleblocker claim, which is suspicious. This particular business of "We can't possibly have a JOAT with an RB ability AND a town RB" was foolish, and I'm not sure why everybody clamored about that. That being said, this alone is not worthy of a vote; afterall, IS not the only one guilty of it. Parama started the chant, who was joined by IS, and then Fishy, who hammered based on it. Vollkan was the first person to comment on the claim, and he actually tried to dissuade the wagon, which is definitely NOT what I would expect scum to do.

Vollkan is 100% town in my eyes.

IS was suspecting Vollkan yesterday for not awarding scum points to Luchris's RB claim. But once day turns over and Vollkan is proven to be correct, he goes after him anyway. The two main reasons are "His bogus list and the fact that he was trying to stay off any wagons". Right now we should be assuming LyLo, so it's crazy for IS to start voting, especially given these weak reasons. I agree that the list has its flaws, but that's not a strong indication of scum. And his latter reason is weak too. Ythill was on an off-wagon too, and he turned up scum. It's possible that there was at least one scum not on the lynchwagon of Luchris, but I'd be more inclined to believe that spot going to EspeonoBatousai.

Im extremely suspicious of Vollkan and his superscum scoring system. I still think its full of crap. He had Luchris up near the top of his list, but yet he never voted for him. At the time, he couldnt have known that Luchris was actually innocent. Or did he? He felt it more necessary to glam up to Ythill and get in on his good side. I can see why, Ythill was rabid and ferocious when coming after me. I was mildly suspicious of Ythill, and was going to pretty much hand his ass to him today had Luchris turned up scum, but yet he turns up dead. Why? Its clear to see that Vollkan is trying to setup a quicklynch on me today. He knew Luchris was innocent, only the scum know that, hence his hesitation to vote for him. Why else would be try to hide by off-voting on MBF instead?

By killing Ythill, Vollkan and the scum can easily set me up by turning my aggressiveness and vigor against me. What a load of crap. I am so not falling for such tactics. I have caught tons of scum before trying to play this little game with me. It didnt work then, its so not going to work now.

This looks like a script IS wrote during the night, and it's not very good either. There's no reason to buddy up to Ythill if he was just going to kill him during the night anyway. And if IS-town and Ythill-town were going to go after each other with full power today, it would be in the scum's best interest to leave them both alive.

Parama, you may hate the way things are going. But blame Luchris and the scum, not me.

Now, if IS is indeed scum, then Vollkan and Parama are town (IS has been buddying to Parama), and Fishy is likely one of his two scum mates. I speculate this based on his recent posts:
"You shouldn't be voting right now"
"Really, voting right now is a bad idea"
"The number of votes is disconcerting"
"*VOTE:IS*"
"No, wait, voting is bad. *UNVOTE*"
To me, this shows that Fishy knows that proper procedure is to NOT VOTE during LyLo until there is an agreement, but he does it anyway to distance himself from IS.

POST PREVIEW EDIT: I see that IS has posted again. There isn't much new in that post, but I'll address one thing:

You KNEW that Luchris was a townie, so of course you didnt want to change your points crutch around, because that would make you look too obvious. So by keeping your points inflated to MBF, you have an excuse to not be involved in the lynch.

I can see this the other way if Vollkan HAD switched to Luchris.

You're killing innocent townies, then hiding behind your point system!

In summation, Parama and Vollkan are likely town and you will have to do some heavy convincing to make me vote them today. I am willing to string up IS right now.

PPE2:
That is terrible reasoning, Parama.

[mikeburnfire]

What did you change your mind about? That link didn't explain it to me.

[mikeburnfire]

I can understand how you could see it like that, but that's not the case. Look at it from a "MBF is town" point of view. Don't you think that my point holds merit?

If we are getting down to the end of the game, do you think scum want a power role like RB to stick around? Hell no, which is why the push to lynch him after he claimed is suspicious, especially because the reasoning sucked. It was garbage to act as if it was impossible that an RB and a JOAT could be in a large normal game. Hell, I just modded a MINI game that had a JOAT and roleblocker.

[mikeburnfire]

I would appreciate it, Parama, if you would withdraw your vote for now. I'm town, and I would really hate to be the mislynch that costs the game.

[mikeburnfire]

@Fishy
Fair enough. Stupidity is often confused a scumminess. But I think Luchris's lynch reflects on you the worst of all. You didn't want to lynch him, but hammered him after the claim. That's scummy for reasons I already explained. And you may have attacked IS yesterday and today, but your vote on him yesterday was an off-vote, and you jumped off to hammer Luchris, so it does seem to be more like distancing than actual suspicion. Regardless, my suspicion on you is fairly lukewarm, and I'd prefer an IS lynch before yours.

@Batto,
I'll let you finish your read before I comment because I'm interested in who your suspects are.

[mikeburnfire]

MBF wants to lynch me because Luchris put himself out there as a scum so I went out there after him.

Actually, no. I went after Luchris too, as did some other guys. It's the way you've been playing that makes me suspect you.

I know for sure that im right about this.

Lies. Where is your proof? All I see is speculation. Do you have any better reasoning that "I don't like the score system" and "he didn't lynch a townie with the rest of us?"

No one has no good reason to go after me with the exception that Luchris screwed up and put himself out there as a scumbag.

1) Your case on Vollkan is terribly garbage.
2) You've tunnelvisioned on players all game
3) You act like you are always right, even though you're 0/2
There. Three reasons why you're scum, and they're all better than your reasons for going after Vollkan.

[mikeburnfire]

Why did you quote that?

[mikeburnfire]

vote: InternetStranger

[mikeburnfire]

Relevant:

Like when you repeat things over and over to brainwash people.

Right now, Vollkan is clearly the scummiest.

I got me the Vollkan scum pegged right there.

The scum is Vollkan, im sure of it.

Vollkan is the scum.

[mikeburnfire]

Vollkan is NOT scum. He tried to derail the wagon on Luchris as soon as he claimed Roleblocker. A mafia would either (A) push even harder to get the power role lynched or (B) not say anything, and let the town do it.

Your mantra of "Vollkan was setting me up" is bullcrap. Vollkan wasn't voting you yesterday, I was still higher on his list. If anyone is setting you up, it's Fishy. You know, the guy who expressed a strong desire to lynch you as soon as day began and said he would have voted you if not for LyLo reasons. Why aren't you addressing him?

If mbf is town (big if), one of UT and Parama must be scum, and probably both.

No, I disagree. I think it's possible for UT to be scum (WHERE ARE THE REASONS HE IS NOT? I AM STILL WAITING, PEOPLE!), but I sincerely doubt that Parama is scum at this point. The rally to lynch me is great, and the scum are probably waiting for that third vote before jumping, which is why I'm a bit uncomfortable being so close.

[mikeburnfire]

What part of

"Vollkan is NOT scum"

and

"I sincerely doubt that Parama is scum at this point"

sounded like

"the scum team includes Parama and Vollkan"

to you?

[mikeburnfire]

D1 VC:

RichardGHP

(5):

Porochaz,

mikeburnfire,

Oman

, Untrod Tripod, Vollkan
Untrod Tripod (5):

Luchris, RichardGHP, Fishythefish, Espeonage, Ythill

Ythill (2): Ojanen,

Parama

Porochaz

(1): Seol

If you are indeed town, and somehow knew that Fishy was town, based on how you colored him green, then you would know that there was NO SCUM on UT's wagon at the end of the day. What is your opinion of UT, and how the wagon suddenly shifted off of him and onto Richard?

MBF: Scum wouldn't do this... mantra is BS. Scum would if they knew the wagon that would replace it is town. They get bonus town points for unsuccessfully derailing a town PR lynch, and there would still be a mislynch. Win, Win.

Let's ignore the fact that I think you're absolutely wrong about this. Since Vollkan was gunning for me at the time, does this mean that you believe me to be town?

I don't see your reasoning for voting Vollkan. Could you clearly explain it to me? It had better be good enough for adding a second vote.

Right now there are two votes on me and two votes on Vollkan, both of whom I believe to be town. This is unsettling. Scum are Tripod, Stranger, and Battousai. Calling it now.

[mikeburnfire]

blah blah blah

beating_dead_horse.gif

This game is way too slow-paced. It's pretty obvious FMPOV that:
1. MBF is scum
2. UT is town
3. IS is scum, which makes Batt scum by association.
I'm leaving my vote where it is unless a Batt or IS wagon gets to L-1.

Vollkan and Fishy need to vote. I don't care that it's probably lylo - YOU NEED TO VOTE.

1. I am not scum.
2. Do you any reason why UT is not scum? I can NOT find one, and unless you can give me a good one, kindly STFU about UT being obv town.
3. I actually agree with you on this last one, kind of. Why does IS-scum guarantee Batt-scum?
4. It's only been Day 4 for six real-life days. Stop rushing.

There have not been a quicklynch, therefore I would speculate that fishy and vollkan are not scum TOGETHER. Since I believe Vollkan to be scum, fishy is town.

...or maybe they are both town. Derp.

Fishy, I ask you to hammer right now (and by that put someone at L-1). Put either MBF or Vollkan at L-1, thus confirming that they are scum if they aren't hammered. Please read my case and decide.

"Hey, Fishy. Put MBF at L-1. If he isn't lynched, we'll lynch him!"
Wow, that's a lot of stupid in a single post. Kudos.

This points extremely strongly to volkanscum -> mbfscum OR {Parama AND UT scum}

Wow, there's a whole epidemic of stupid going around today, isn't there? Since Vollkan didn't end up voting me in the scenario that you just set up, it is proof that either vollkan is town, or we are BOTH scum.
----------------------

[mikeburnfire]

It does say that if volkan is scum, you almost certainly are, making you at least as good a lynch as him.

Actually, by that logic, I am a far better lynch than Vollkan. But please don't.

-------------------------------------------

The people who say they are willing to lynch IS includes: MBF, Vollkan, Parama, and Fishy. The people who express no desire to lynch IS are IS (duh), battousai, and UT.

Scum are Tripod, Stranger, and Battousai. Calling it now.

The only reason this game is still going is because Batt joined the game recently and saw his scumpartner going after Vollkan with all his might and decided to follow him, too foolish to realize that if he would just vote MBF, IS could jump ship and win the game for scum.

/game

[mikeburnfire]

@Stranger

I'm willing to bet the game on Vollkan not being scum.

What do you think of Battousai subtly attempting to lynch me and/or Vollkan regardless of alignment?

[mikeburnfire]

How am I advocating a lynch on Vollkan, regardless of alignment?

You're a fool if you truly don't see it.

Put either MBF or Vollkan at L-1, thus confirming that they are scum if they aren't hammered.

[mikeburnfire]

Naw, I like Parama. He's at least trying. Stranger is just repeating his forced, projected, hollow case on Vollkan. UT isn't even here. They are worse offenders.

Although, seriously Parama, I would like to see your reasoning why UT is town soon, because I don't believe you.

[mikeburnfire]

I was initially going to unvote you because you started to actually convince me, but then I realized that this is crap.

First of all, you didn't have this reasoning when the day started, when you began this tirade. You're just going back and retroactively justifying it. For the longest time you were just yelling about the point system and about some conspiracy that never manifested until you began to play the victim.

Secondly, you never answered me when I asked you this:

If anyone is setting you up, it's Fishy. You know, the guy who expressed a strong desire to lynch you as soon as day began and said he would have voted you if not for LyLo reasons. Why aren't you addressing him?

Thirdly, while I think that analyzing the wagons hold merit, I think too much effort is being placed on them right now. The fact of the matter is that both me and Vollkan are at L-2, and I believe that we're both pro-town. The scum could be on either wagon, waiting for a third vote before they pounce. Yeah, they could try to quickly double vote for a lynch, or they can just wait it out because at this point they're headed for victory regardless.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm almost certain that the scum are in [Parama, Untrod Tripod, Internet Stranger, Battousai]

but I don't think that there's enough support to get any of these guys lynched, so town's screwed. Somebody hurry up and mislynch vollkan or me so that we can get on with our lives.

[mikeburnfire]

Ok, I see your point. I didnt check Parama's time. All I saw was that we were posting minutes apart. Im suprised that no one said anything about this post #757:

Who should I vote for then, Fishy? MBF? I got me the Vollkan scum pegged right there.

You were too busy saying other obviously scum things. Too bad nobody listened to me. I'm a bit surprised Fishy was the last scum, but I'm also a little surprised I was

so very right

about Vollkan, Stranger, and Tripod. Parama's probably got to feel a bit foolish for calling him definite town. Also, every mafia was on the Town Roleblocker's lynch. Suddenly my words ring true, yes?

[mikeburnfire]

Hopefully we've all learned a powerful lesson from this game:
Just because scum can lynch in LyLo doesn't mean that definitely will take that opportunity, so the whole "He must be scum because he hasn't been quicklynched yet" argument will die and never be heard of again.

Congrats to scum for their perfect win. Stranger did a great job of throwing out enough bullshit to confuse the town, but Fishy was the most subtle and probably would have won the game for scum had it gotten down to 2v1.

[mikeburnfire]

Pfft. Myk screwed up by not making me SK again.