Mini 1140 - Mafia Mishmash...Game Over!!

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

The second quote was after, the first quote was before. He ignored both. Admittedly my reasoning at first for voting him was stretching just a bit, I've grown more confident in it since. He is now officially the only person in the game who has failed to contribute anything(Ignoring Yura, of course, but we all already pretty much have our eyes on her)

[yura-chi]

@sc i've contributed ideas! or at least i tried!

[yura-chi]

i think this is starting to get interesting... since everyone's opinions are different were going to have a long day time so that means more time to hunt scum!

[subgenius]

i think this is starting to get interesting... since everyone's opinions are different were going to have a long day time so that means more time to hunt scum!

Don't say you're going to scum hunt. Just scum hunt. Who do you think is scum right now, and why? It's okay if you're not sure about your reads, just give your very best 2 or 3 guesses and reasons.

Also, I'd like to ask what you think about the source of the second kill last night. Do you think it was a serial killer or vigilante, and why? Why do you think each of the victims was chosen?

[Truant]

(TCL, Pappum's town)

In the beginning....

-Page 1-
Nothing really

-Page 2-
(post 32) Not liking SC's reaction to Regfan's questionnaire. I saw it as a way to find something to talk about rather than trying to "lead the town" since there's no real leading going on through the questions that he posted. Also, I think that aside from Vollkan, SC's half-"claim" (I hesitate to call it such) of offering to claim miller went too much under the radar. There are very few townies (and none that I've seen with as little experience as SC claimed to have) that have the idea to say that they're something that they aren't. Fake-claiming is almost at the heart of playing scum, while townies just know that they're townies; and they don't need to worry about being anything else.

(post 38) SC completely undermines his previous reasoning to vote for Regfan. In 32 it was because he was leading the town and the Q's weren't useful (which was scummy in SCs eyes as per post 32), but now it's just "bad play" and he doesn't know whether or not that Reg is scum and wants to find out more information.

(post 46-47) Admits that some of Reg's Qs are reasonable, but continues the guise of it's scummy due to him (Reg) not explaining why the Qs are useful (wut?), and not because it's scummy (complete reversal from 32)

-Page 3-4-
Nothing

Page 6-9:
Eff magnetic, note to self to analyze this later, I don't want to get frustrated reading that again.

@Regfan (post 215): Why did you automatically assume that there was a Vig in the setup?

(To be continued)

[havingfitz]

Votecount 2.2:

curiouskarmadog - 2 (Regfan, yura-chi)

yura-chi – 1 (vollkan)
bgg1996 - 1 (subgenius)
Surprise_Carcinogen - 1 (Andrew94)
Andrew94 - 1 (Surprise_Carcinogen)
Regfan - 1 (curiouskarmadog)

Not voting: (bgg1996, Truant, Maxous)

With 10 players left it’s 6 to lynch.

Day 2 will end no later than midnight EST on March 31st.

No change in vote. Activity level has been great.

@bgg...if you want to know what a weak doc's normal abilities entail you can look here. I only provided more detail on the sledgehammer because it was an unusual role.

[subgenius]

Anybody else think it's a bit unusual that 4 of the 6 people with votes for them have votes from the person that they're voting for? I'm not accusing all of those people of OMGUS necessarily, but it's a little strange and maybe even concerning.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

Me and andrew have a fundamental disagreement of what this game is about.
I'm not liking the fact that you're ignoring everyone in favor of me, and calling it a town history, Truant. There was a lot going on ASIDE from my actions, and it's more then a little misleading.

[andrew94]

Try...absolutely everything that has gone on this game so far that you've ignored. From the RQS thing early on that you haven't said a thing about, on to the magnetic thing which you almost entirely ignored, or maybe any of the debates so far that you've said nothing about. Your 'case' against me is the most content we've gotten from you all game, and I'll be damned if it's of any quality at all

THIS WAS NEXT QUOTE

Even with Bgg coming under heavy fire, you have been suspiciously quiet. You could give us on opinion on that, for example! What do you think about Bgg's various accusations? What do you think about CKD's lurking, or Regfan being all shepherd-ie. SAY SOMETHING THAT MATTERS.

repeating:so things to note: i was at mcc tourney when magnetic was getting owned and erm i said bgg was oppourtunistic.
other things to note: i have school, i come home, i do hw, i read mafiascum, i say something, i sleep, etc. happy??

alright: rqs stuff: too late for that
magnetic: i was at mcc tourney, then school as i said above.
my case against you: i find it meritable??? for example, as maxous has stated, you actually only started on me after i accused you. i didnt occasionally take a pot shot at you? in fact, i think i attacked you first.
i already said bgg was being opportunistic
ckd lurking: null on that

@volkan, lurking doesnt mean not reading, it means not posting on purpose. ffs.
@ maxous, to your question, i wouldnt hammer as i even said i was gonna defend him due to him being a troll in my modded game
and i find that your fence sitting --> saying andrew94> surprise. then saying surprise still = leaning town read.
what the hell am i then? super town read?

subgenius: conversation to yura looks like coaching

unfos ckd fos maxous fos subgenius

[andrew94]

also, please look at my sig

[subgenius]

subgenius: conversation to yura looks like coaching

I was going for more of a "good cop" kind of approach, but I can see how they'd look similar.

[subgenius]

@Andrew:

I'll repost this request from Vollkan, because you must have missed it:

The fact you need to ask this is proof that you are lurking.

Time to issue my tried-and-tested ultimatum: Read up, or replace out

Please give us, in your next post, two sentences minimum on each player telling us your opinion of them.

If you can't or won't, for any reason, do that, then leave.

[andrew94]

i did give opoinions on almost every player apart from volakn himself(who is a bully)

the rest i havent seen much of

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

also, please look at my sig

I hate making this argument, but this is just...bad. Do we really want somebody who openly admits to the fact that he'll skim through cases? It just doesn't seem town productive. And I'll read through his prior post and give a reply in a second. I just really wanted to point this out.

[Surprise_Carcinogen]

repeating:so things to note: i was at mcc tourney when magnetic was getting owned and erm i said bgg was oppourtunistic.
other things to note: i have school, i come home, i do hw, i read mafiascum, i say something, i sleep, etc. happy??

alright: rqs stuff: too late for that
magnetic: i was at mcc tourney, then school as i said above.
my case against you: i find it meritable??? for example, as maxous has stated, you actually only started on me after i accused you. i didnt occasionally take a pot shot at you? in fact, i think i attacked you first.
i already said bgg was being opportunistic
ckd lurking: null on that

@volkan, lurking doesnt mean not reading, it means not posting on purpose. ffs.
@ maxous, to your question, i wouldnt hammer as i even said i was gonna defend him due to him being a troll in my modded game
and i find that your fence sitting --> saying andrew94> surprise. then saying surprise still = leaning town read.
what the hell am i then? super town read?

subgenius: conversation to yura looks like coaching

unfos ckd fos maxous fos subgenius

You're finally giving opinions, of which I pretty much approve. On the downside, though, the opinions themselves are a little off. I didn't say you occasionally took a pot shot at me. I said that I watch lurkers, but they sometimes bring themselves to my attention by forming crappy cases. If you'd done exactly what you did but to another player, I'd still be voting you now, only we MIGHT have been able to get a little farther in things because there wouldn't be your ability to muddy waters by bringing up OMGUS as a defense.

Another small problem I have is that you are, apparently, fos-ing maxous...for thinking you're town...And you're fos-ing Sub for a reason that, on the surface looks nice, but in practice is stretching at best. Currently thinking an Andrew/Yura team, or possibly one of the two is SK. Given their dialogue, I'm thinking that Reg and CKD are likely both town, but I haven't had more then one or two games with an SK before(And one of the setups was REALLY weird) so I'm not exactly sure how they read.

[vollkan]

2) Hard evidence = night kills. Who whomever has killing roles is hard evidence that can't be falsified. Almost everything else in the game is subject to opinion and how you read what they wrote where you know the mafia/sk killed for a reason. I also believe that it's easier to pin down one person's motivations than a group so I decided to analyze the SK's decision over the mafia's decision first when I had little time to analyze everything the way I would like to.
3) Everyone in mafia plays to win. Non-town try to ensure their survival while town are fine dying if they can catch scum. Therefore, scum generally get rid of threats to them if and when they think that they can get away with it. SKs fall into this even moreso than mafias cause they don't have anyone but themselves to rely on so they're more likely to kill off direct threats. Therefore, when I saw that TCL was stabbed, I analyzed who he was suspicious of to see if I could get a bead on the SK.

Night kills are NOT hard evidence, for two main reasons:
1) There are too many potential motivations to be able to accurately guess; and
2) Even if you can get an accurate guess, it's too common for scum to deliberately WIFOM the whole process for it to be accurate.

i think this is starting to get interesting... since everyone's opinions are different were going to have a long day time so that means more time to hunt scum!

Yura+3

"Yay, we all get to scum hunt"

i did give opoinions on almost every player apart from volakn himself(who is a bully)

Then quote each instance of you giving your opinion on each player apart from me, because I sure as hell haven't seen it

(Also, something like "ckd lurking: null on that" doesn't tell us anything about your actual position on CKD).

[Regfan]

I'm finding it hard to attain strong reads on a lot of players in this game. I've been keeping up with the thread, and I would have to agree on Yura/Bgg's posts being anti-town and unhelpful but I still don't have a scumread on either of them, that being said I don't have a townread on them.

Still waiting on a post from CKD, but looking at his other game, seems like he's very challenged with time at the moment so I'll give him a while.

@ Andrew, which 1 post in this game do you think has been the scummiest, and why?
@ Voltron, how exactly does the point system influence your voting? Do you always vote the player who has the highest score?
@ Sub, who is your strongest two FoS's right now and why?

[vollkan]

@ Voltron, how exactly does the point system influence your voting? Do you always vote the player who has the highest score?

Yeah, that's right. It wouldn't achieve its purpose of directly linking votes to reasoning if it was discretionary whether or not I followed it

Subject to an exception which I've never had to use which is as follows: suppose I am forced to choose between two players. One of them has been really active and has a relatively low score of, say, 55. The other has lurked constantly, and so only has 50. Because there is much greater "uncertainty" surrounding the lurker (ie. I haven't been able to judge him), it's conceivable that I would vote the lurker.

[Maxous]

@ maxous, to your question, i wouldnt hammer as i even said i was gonna defend him due to him being a troll in my modded game
and i find that your fence sitting --> saying andrew94> surprise. then saying surprise still = leaning town read.
what the hell am i then? super town read?

1) That's fine but the rest of us could'nt just make the assumption that he was trolling. Your attempt to paint SC as scummy because he hammered Magnetic does'nt wash IMO
2) I think you may be town, that is all there is to it.

also, please look at my sig

I hate making this argument, but this is just...bad.

Do we really want somebody who openly admits to the fact that he'll skim through cases? It just doesn't seem town productive.

And I'll read through his prior post and give a reply in a second. I just really wanted to point this out

Not town productive does not equal mafia and this is'nt the first time you have attempted to blur that line looking for his lynch.

Another small problem I have is that you are, apparently, fos-ing maxous...for thinking you're town...And you're fos-ing Sub for a reason that, on the surface looks nice, but in practice is stretching at best. Currently thinking an Andrew/Yura team, or possibly one of the two is SK. Given their dialogue,

I'm thinking that Reg and CKD are likely both town,

but I haven't had more then one or two games with an SK before(And one of the setups was REALLY weird) so I'm not exactly sure how they read.

Any reason you changed your mind about CKD?

[subgenius]

Sub, who is your strongest two FoS's right now and why?

Am I really that hard to read on this?
1)bgg1996:General avoidance of scum hunting, seems more concerned with confirming vig/sk than finding scum, wasting time by refusing to clarify simple statements for no reason, and subjectively, I think he was trying to gain townie cred by arguing to delay magnetic's lynch.
Tie for number 2:
2a)Truant: I feel that he's borderline lurking, I think his case on Yura was too easy and not at all compelling, and I think the fact that he only analyzed the SK kill at the beginning of the day could very well be a scum slip.
2b)Yura-chi: General pattern of waffling on votes and no-content posts that seem intended to appear town-like.

[yura-chi]

i think this is starting to get interesting... since everyone's opinions are different were going to have a long day time so that means more time to hunt scum!

Don't say you're going to scum hunt. Just scum hunt. Who do you think is scum right now, and why? It's okay if you're not sure about your reads, just give your very best 2 or 3 guesses and reasons.

Also, I'd like to ask what you think about the source of the second kill last night. Do you think it was a serial killer or vigilante, and why? Why do you think each of the victims was chosen?

i'll get my fos later cause i still need to check something and i dont really have time in the mornings....

what source of the kill? u mean who did it? i think it is a vig cause there is likely to be more town than mafia so it might be just a mistake for killing whoever the vig killed which i think is the one who was shot. (sorry i forgot the names i think its PR?) i think that they might have been chosen because the killers might have had a sus on them or they felt like they were a threat to them....

[andrew94]

Another small problem I have is that

you are, apparently, fos-ing maxous

...for thinking you're town...And you're fos-ing Sub for a reason that, on the surface looks nice, but in practice is stretching at best. Currently thinking an Andrew/Yura team, or possibly one of the two is SK. Given their dialogue, I'm thinking that Reg and CKD are likely both town, but I haven't had more then one or two games with an SK before(And one of the setups was REALLY weird) so I'm not exactly sure how they read.

hmm? are you saying if everyone calls me town then i cant fos or vote ANYONE since they all think im to win? that seems like an epic way to say 'i like it that your contributing now' then 'but ur contribution is bad, this is why etc'.

[andrew94]

@volkan post 383.


@maxous, that wasnt all that was to my case, read the rest
@subgenius why is traunt 2 A and yura 2B, why is yura not 3???
also, how are those no content posts designed to look town like.

[andrew94]

soz for triple post, but i thought the most susopicious post was surprises's deflecting to me by saying i lurk



p.s. volkan,, respond to the definition of lurk pls

[subgenius]

@andrew

Truant and Yura are 2a and 2b because I was posting my fos's in order of certainty but I don't have a strong opinion on which of the of them is more likely to be scum. Bgg1996 is my strongest read, though.

Re: Yura and trying to look town
Going back through her ISO, it's not quite as prevalent as I thought, but there are still a few glaring examples:

i think this is starting to get interesting... since everyone's opinions are different were going to have a long day time so that means more time to hunt scum!

You know what think what u guys want but all I'm saying is I'm townie alligned u guys believe what you want....

ehhh!?!? im dat big of a threat???

But going back through her ISO, I'm seeing more attempts at adding content than I first realized. They're not great attempts, but they're there. I'm interested to see who her fos's are, and I'm seeing some things in her response about the vig/sk, but I'll wait until she releases her fos's to talk about them.