Newbie 1080 -- Game over

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Post Post #175 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:21 am

Post by Nobody Special »

Votecount 1.08

L-1 :right: Jack Forman - 4 - Hiraki, theplague42, Does Bo Know, [Moonstruck]
brundibar - 1 - Shift
Hiraki - 1 - Jack Forman

Not Voting: martini, brundibar, Quilford

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: April 8.

V/LA: ...

....what?



Blitz: Picking Simplicity taking pre-ins; PM for info. (0/13)
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Post Post #176 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:16 am

Post by Hiraki »

theplague42 wrote:Never played with Vi, so I wouldn't know.

Also, anyone else notice that brundibar practically copied a cople of my summaries? He also left out me, which of course I did as well... Thoughts?
The point wasn't that it was Vi, it was that Vi is a well-known player that is known to be good.
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Post Post #177 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:29 am

Post by Jack Forman »

I don't want to give up on this fight but it does not matter what I say someone will twist it to look bad or you will say that you can't understand what I am trying to say. When I flip town you guys should take a good look at the people in this wagon cus one of the will turn up scum.
Moon wrote:It even says in the paragraph about Lurking in one of the rule posts that it's scummie to just have a few random posts that don't have much to do with anything.
shift wrote:Iso#2=Fluff
Iso#3=More fluff, RVS vote
Here people saying Fluff.

My vote on Hiraki was not OMGUS it was me wanting to know what he wanted me dead and the fact that I think he is scum now.
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Post Post #178 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:10 am

Post by Hiraki »

Jack Forman wrote:I don't want to give up on this fight but it does not matter what I say someone will twist it to look bad or you will say that you can't understand what I am trying to say. When I flip town you guys should take a good look at the people in this wagon cus one of the will turn up scum.
This is what scum says when they realize they can't defend. I'm telling you guys. This is a really fucking juicy lynch.
Jack Forman wrote:My vote on Hiraki was not OMGUS
it was me wanting to know what he wanted me dead and the fact that I think he is scum now.
So your vote was for pressure. Hmmzorz.
Jack wrote:now you want me dead?? Sounds like scum, why don't you just jump out and push the wagon. scum
This is Jack calling me scum because I called him scum.

THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF AN OMGUS.

I CALLED YOU SCUM.

OMG

YOU CALL ME SCUM BACK.

US

Btw., for all Jack knows, I could've gone on him for pressure, so he's over-reacting like crazy right now.

But guys. Here's the greatest part. I might've put this on the wall, but I honestly can't remember nor have the will to check.
Jack Forman wrote:
Hiraki wrote:Ha. Jack is challenging me. I'll admit that I thought I made a post that isn't here, but now it's go-time. When I get back home, I'm going to show everyone the obv. Jackscum.
That is funny, I could see someone that is scum saying that.
But wait, didn't you do the same thing, except present a case that's next to piss poor? Sheesh.
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Post Post #179 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:03 pm

Post by brundibar »

So uh...yeah. Hiraki has pretty much convinced me at this point.

Vote: Jack Forman
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Post Post #180 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:05 pm

Post by Shift »

So can we lynch Brundi tomorrow? Just out of curiosity?
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Post Post #181 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:09 pm

Post by martini »

little time, but:
brundibar:
You're either newbie town or newbie scum, but that's what everyone's been saying.
You seem to make a lot of mistakes as scum, or a lot of newbie mistakes. The problem is the fact that both scum mistakes and newbie mistakes are mistakes and look alike. for example: the ''wagonfishing''. The "So maybe this is completely bad logic" could either be scum giving yourself a get out of jail for free card in case the argument is busted or newbie town expressing your uncertainty and asking other players for help. Hiraki seems to be sure it's newbie, Shift seems to think it's scummy. I''m not sure which one it is, as you keep alternating between good and bad posts. This might be scum slipping up every once in a while, or newbie failing to make good posts. argh
brundibar wrote:I'm not throwing out FoS's to see who will hop on my wagon. I'm just trying to make observations without automatically assuming that they makes them scum. I'm trying to put ideas out there for everyone to discuss, and either agree with or disagree with.
If I was trying to get people to hop on wagons, I would be constantly vote changing.
While I admit I did change votes a couple times early on when I was still trying to figure everything out, I haven't cast a vote since post 80.
Of course you wouldn't, just the fact that you're mentioning it now means you know it's scummy and would be avoiding it.

by the way, what do you think about theplague42, as you didn't cover him?

PRE-EDIT wow didn't see that coming so soon

it''s still twilight so we can still discuss.
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Post Post #182 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:16 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Martini. It's pretty obvious that Brundi is a newbie. Sorry to spoil that.

Also, it's newbie
town
. Not newbie. Like I said before, newbie isn't a faction.
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Post Post #183 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:19 pm

Post by martini »

Didn't even get the time to say what I thought about jack :(
summary: somewhat scummy, especially his last post

oh and yeah, newbietown is what I meant with newbie
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Post Post #184 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:20 pm

Post by Shift »

brundibar wrote:If I was trying to get people to hop on wagons, I would be constantly vote changing.
Tossing out random logic that could possibly incriminate someone at anyone you can serves the same purpose.

As for the "alternating between good and bad posts", he's made 1 good post all game. One. And that post was mainly just an apology. Quil seems to be the most town so far. Looks like I won't have time to do my analysis, but have no fear as I'll have it saved in a Word file ready to put up when the sun rises once more.
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Post Post #185 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:19 pm

Post by theplague42 »

@martini
I was responding to a request from Quil, not Bo.

As for brundibar, I would normally push for an insta-lynch for that kind of post copying. But I can accept that it's an innocent mistake. That said, the argument that he has the same thoughts as everyone else because the thoughts are correct is an often-used argument, and I'm torn by it. It does have some truth to it to a point, especially having read everyone else's summaries before. But that also makes it an easy excuse for scum to copy other reads to seem town. I'm leaning towards it being a scumtell. Thoughts?
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Post Post #186 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:28 pm

Post by theplague42 »

Hiraki wrote:
theplague42 wrote:Never played with Vi, so I wouldn't know.

Also, anyone else notice that brundibar practically copied a cople of my summaries? He also left out me, which of course I did as well... Thoughts?
The point wasn't that it was Vi, it was that Vi is a well-known player that is known to be good.
My argument is that newbie scum make more mistakes than newbie town. That coincides with the fact that experienced scum make more mistakes than experienced town. I'm not trying to compare newbie-town with experienced-scum. (BTW when I say just "newbie" I generally imply town; I'll try to be more specific from now on)

I'm getting rather suspicious of Hiraki right now. He continuously says that brandibar us town, but hasn't yet explained why. Complete opposite of his dealing with JF.

If JF flips town, then I say Hiraki/brundibar scumteam with Hiraki leading the pressure off of brundibar onto JF.

If JF flips scum, then I see Huraki bussing his partner while gaining town points by calling brundibar town.

A bit of guesswork, but that's what I see.
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Post Post #187 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:08 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In both cases I'm scum. Whooptedoo.

I don't think you get it. Brunditown is fact. I can't explain it to you, because I've seen more newbies than you have. He's acting like newbietown, not newbiescum. There is no proof on why he's town, I just
know
he's town by experience by comparing his posts with other newbies that flipped town.
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Post Post #188 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:12 pm

Post by theplague42 »

So you saying something makes it true?
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Post Post #189 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:32 pm

Post by Hiraki »

theplague42 wrote:So you saying something makes it true?
Yes, but it's more comparison rather than fact.
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Post Post #190 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:36 pm

Post by [Moonstruck] »

That doesn't make sense, this is my first game and I don't make as many mistakes as Brundi. So how does him being newbie make all his scummy mistakes into newbie mistakes? Just cause you've had more experience with newbies doesn't mean you're the expert on newbie behavior.
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Post Post #191 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:36 pm

Post by Nobody Special »

Votecount 1.09

Jack Forman - 5 - Hiraki, theplague42, Does Bo Know, [Moonstruck], brundibar

brundibar - 1 - Shift
Hiraki - 1 - Jack Forman

Not Voting: martini, Quilford

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: April 8.

V/LA: ...

....what?



Blitz: Picking Simplicity taking pre-ins; PM for info. (0/13)
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Post Post #192 (ISO) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:47 pm

Post by Nobody Special »


After much debate, while people were deciding and thinking and ruminating and pondering, the short guy in the funny hat sneaks over to Jack and slips a noose around his neck.

As the body swings from the gallows, you wait. In silence.


Jack Forman, Mafia Goon,
has been lynched.


Night One begins now. Night Actions are due within 72 hours via PM. Deadline: March 27.

....what?



Blitz: Picking Simplicity taking pre-ins; PM for info. (0/13)
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Post Post #193 (ISO) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:03 pm

Post by Nobody Special »


With apologies for the temporary lack of flavor, we get right to business:


Quilford, Town Cop,
has been shot.


With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: April 17.

V/LA: ...
....what?



Blitz: Picking Simplicity taking pre-ins; PM for info. (0/13)
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Post Post #194 (ISO) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:39 pm

Post by Does Bo Know »

Alright, this was made right after night 1 started, so bare with me.

Hiraki, I understand that you've seen more newbies than most likely any of us, and know behaviors. But don't assume anyone will follow your word without presenting any proof of brundibar's newbie town attitude.

Though...there is something that confuses me. You know how to play the game, Hiraki. The way you are asserting your point to everyone about brundi's playing style is too obvious and direct. Only an incredibly newbie player would do something like this. But, that's so obvious that you're scum, right?

...Wrong. I hate comparing people by skill, but you're an IC. You know not to make mistakes like that as Mafia. Therefore, I believe your reasoning for brundi and his alignment is a complete
null tell
.

Too much pride with the bolded words? Probably. :P

To the quick analysis:

I’ll be basing a lot of people’s analysis on Jack’s alignment, since I couldn’t finish this before the Day ended.

Plague, because of your post stating what we should do based on Jack's flip, we should believe that Hiraki is trying to prove innocence by backing Jack up while brundibar is town and Hiraki is trying to prove that. Hiraki was one of the first people to vote on the real Jack bandwagon. I don’t find that scummy, and in fact find that townie. You know, Plague, weren’t
you
the one that defended Jack because of your thoughts toward his “newbie attitude?” Though, I should take that back since he was a top suspect on your list, but that was after everybody else had grub against Jack.

On what I think overall, Plague, new arguments have rarely been presented. Improvements, yes. Creations, not really. Not really sure how I feel about this one. Neutral/leaning scum simply because no one else I have is scum except Brundi.

Also, Hiraki, your reasons for voting Jack are clearly expressed and clearly noted. Nothing wrong there, except I'm still confused as to why you've waited until
now
to display your full reasoning for Jack's vote. Otherwise, you’re neutral, but Jack’s vote places you a slight town read.

martini, while it is possible that you ran out of time to analyze everybody, just saying Jack is scummy in twilight when he’s about to be lynched is a soft input before the lynch is made, perhaps trying to hide that you’re not partners with him. Also, you’ve been too forgiving with everybody earlier, but you’ve fixed that just a tad. You’d be barely leaning scum to me, but considering Jack voted you for “lurking” earlier and no one else voted you, you’re neutral.

Brundi hammered with the simple statement that Hiraki convinced him. Piggybacking. I don’t like that.
At all.
Bad for brundi. You have been fence-sitting (Shift coined the term and I’m just using it, if that’s alright), and this hammering vote shows further that you rely on other people to help you, and when you “try to help” others, it’s to make sure you’re not suspicious for something wrong. This has how you’ve played the whole game, and while I do feel bad for saying this due to your apology-post earlier in the game, you’re the scummiest I’ve got right now.

Moonstruck, you’re townie to me. Slightly newbie, I might add, and your arguments toward people are small, but the quality in the small arguments is the quality I’d expect in small arguments. Probable town to me.

Shift, you are most town on my scale. You have presented an aggressive play style that is made to uncover the scumminess that is the Mafia. Though, the only difference between you and Quilford is, like a few others have stated, you haven’t presented as much new material as Quilford. The material you have produced, however, is being used correctly.

Scale from most scummy to townie:

brundibar
Plague
martini
Hiraki
Moonstruck
Shift

Also, we can now conclude that Mafia killed Quilford because they thought he was too townie to be convinced Mafia. I'll look over yesterday to see how attitudes toward Quilford have been.
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Post Post #195 (ISO) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:59 pm

Post by Does Bo Know »

Hm, I looked over Jack's reason for thinking Quilford is town. And is it just me, or is there absolutely nothing in that post that gives reasoning toward Quilford's town status? It's full of crap, unless someone can point out why it makes sense.

To add on to this, brundibar stated that his reason for Quilford's town read is that Quilford was an aggressive scumhunter, after
saying that he now knows what to look for
. Didn't Quilford point all of us toward Brundi's post that he's read games before? How could brundi "not know what to look for" if he's read games where people (hopefully) knew what to do? This pushes my suspicion for brundi even further. This enforced suspicion is, admittedly, driven by Quilford's play, but I'll place my
vote on brundibar
.

Furthermore, I had the same beliefs toward Quilford yesterday, that he was the most aggressive townies from the very beginning, and always provided new evidence. His reason that I was most townie to him, however, threw me off a little, as the examples he gave seemed to protect him a little more; those were the "new connections" I made.
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Post Post #196 (ISO) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:46 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Does Bo Know:

There's absolutely no reason to put me at
slightly town
if I was stupid enough to buss. Jack was on Brundi. There's no doubt in my mind that he's town.

However, those two posts were
way
too sketchy for me to pass off.

Vote: Does Bo Know
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Post Post #197 (ISO) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:53 pm

Post by theplague42 »

Vote: Hiraki

IC surviving night 1? Very unlikely. In the newbie games I've played, town-ICs were always killed night 1.

Not liking DBK's post either. Seems like he's trying to get his views in early and influence other's thoughts, similar to what brundi claimed earlier (seeing as Hiraki is convinced he's town).

Be back later today.
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Post Post #198 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:00 am

Post by brundibar »

Does Bo Know wrote:
Brundi hammered with the simple statement that Hiraki convinced him. Piggybacking. I don’t like that.
At all.
Bad for brundi. You have been fence-sitting (Shift coined the term and I’m just using it, if that’s alright), and this hammering vote shows further that you rely on other people to help you, and when you “try to help” others, it’s to make sure you’re not suspicious for something wrong. This has how you’ve played the whole game, and while I do feel bad for saying this due to your apology-post earlier in the game, you’re the scummiest I’ve got right now.
So we shouldn't try and make arguments to influence others? Hiraki has been making good points all game, I was leaning towards voting Jack, and then he posted his final analysis and I found it convincing enough to hammer.
Does Bo Know wrote:
To add on to this, brundibar stated that his reason for Quilford's town read is that Quilford was an aggressive scumhunter, after saying that he now knows what to look for. Didn't Quilford point all of us toward Brundi's post that he's read games before? How could brundi "not know what to look for" if he's read games where people (hopefully) knew what to do? This pushes my suspicion for brundi even further. This enforced suspicion is, admittedly, driven by Quilford's play, but I'll place my vote on brundibar.
I really don't follow this at all. Can you clear up this statement?
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Post Post #199 (ISO) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:54 am

Post by Nobody Special »

Bump.
Last edited by Nobody Special on Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
....what?



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