Mini 1140 - Mafia Mishmash...Game Over!!

[Maxous]

Votecount 3.6:
CryMeARiver - 2 (subgenius,

Scott Brosius

)

Scott Brosius

- 1 (

bgg1996

)
No Lynch - 1 (vollkan)
Not voting: (CryMeARiver,

Haylen

,

Regfan

, Maxous)
Anaylsis: For a second lets assume that both CMAR and Sub were town, that would mean mafia are Maxous and Volkan meaning if they both voted CMAR the game would end.

Votecount 3.7:
Hinduragi - 2 (

Scott Brosius

, Maxous)

Scott Brosius

- 1 (

bgg1996

)
No Lynch - 1 (vollkan)
Not voting: (subgenius, Hinduragi,

Haylen

,

Regfan

)
Anaylsis: Oh, so look what happens Maxous votes Hind. Taking the chance at ending the game there I see. I'll need to read into this area more.

I assume this is what your basing Maxous-Vollkan on.
Subgenius invoted Hinduragi before I voted him. How is that chancing to end the game? And it's under the assumption that CMAR is town due to 'mafia don't vote thier buddies'

________________________
________________________

Overall Day 2 anaylsis: CryMeARiver isn't mafia unless he's the last mafia in the game which I doubt given the power roles dead at the moment.

Yeah about that...

There can't be two scum-teams(we've already gone over why, you'll get there eventually, I just dont' want to repost it).

There could be. 2 scum + SK = 2 anti-town factions.

Bgg could be a godfather btw. If we go by 2 mafia, it would make sense that he'd be NK and Inv immune. I'm reading Andrews flip as him being Inv. immune, by the way. I have no reason to believe that Bgg is town anymore.

Disclaimer: It is not necessarily MYLO. I could easily see only 2 scum since they get an extra NK through the SK. But we assume the worst situation of course.

Seems plausible.

_________________
_________________

I seen it once. A mafia had it though.

Does a weak doctor and a redirector clash somehow? I don't get it :/

I came across this. Maxous can you show me the link to the game where a mafia had the redirector ability?

To clarify it was'nt a game on

this

site.
If you still want me to link you to it I will. Just making sure.

(Grand?) finale coming next..

[Maxous]

Speaking of which
@Hinduragi: Did you happen to use your jailkeeping power last night?

Why do you want to know?

Yeah alright, I wanted to wait on Hinduragi to make certain but he did'nt show up and I'm like 95% sure anyway.

Roleclaim: Jack of all Trades

3 one-shot abilities.

N1- No action (too many players did'nt want to waste an ability.)
N2- One-shot Gunsmith ability. Determining wheter or not the target has a gun. I used it on Regfan. Result was no gun. Therefore if I understand it correctly he is clear. (Due to the mafia shooting people)
N3- One-shot tracker ability. Target Hinduragi. He visited Scott last night.

I asked Hinduragi did he use the ability to see if I could catch him in a lie saying he did'nt use it or used it on somebody else etc. to make 100% sure.
Since jailkeeping protects what would of had to happen is a mafia roleblocked Hinduragi and killed Scott. This is unlikely as why would'nt they of roleblocked SC instead of killing him. And how it is likely they killed Pappums for power role hunting. Still I wanted to make certain.
Everyone knows the other reasons to suspect that slot.
As I outlined to Refgan the Haylen and CMAR mentioned the idea of having 2 mafia a bit too often which leads me to beleive there is only 2. Also if there was a third(out of Vollkan and Subgenius) it would pf made more sense for them to send in the kill.

If there happens to be a third I would suggest Vollkan for his 'CMAR' claim complicates things, I dunno if I

[Maxous]

Damn..and I was nearly finished and all. Keyboard slip >_<

If there happens to be a third I would suggest Vollkan for his 'CMAR claim complicates things, I dunno if we should lynch him' and going back through the thread to find a reason to suspect me

after

I expressed my opinion on the case on Haylen. I.E. why not call me out on it at the time?
Why wait until everyone else starts thinking I might be mafia?

But as I said I don't think he is I think it's just the two mafia.

I'll vote when everyone is ready.

[subgenius]

Interesting development. This claim strikes me as fairly credible. First, it meshes with my previous suspicions of CMAR/Hindu. Second, I had noticed that Maxous hadn't posted for two days, and his claim explains that. Third, the fact that he clears Regfan makes his claim extremely useful tomorrow. If Hindu flips scum, we could start tomorrow with 2 confirmed innocents, which kicks ass.

I'm willing to accept his explanation for doubting the case against Haylen, since he has made several references to playing mafia at other sites. In my limited experience, I've found that MS puts a lot of thought into their rules and how to enforce them, so I was quite willing to lynch Haylen for making a claim that contradicted the rules, but I can understand how I would be less eager if the majority of my mafia experience was at a site that wasn't quite as structured and moderated. I'll admit that it's strange to cite experiences from other sites to explain why a claim at this site is within the rules, but I can let it go.

P.S. I had the following post sitting on my clipboard from last night, and didn't get around to posting it.

I'm now basically left without a clear suspect. CMAR obviously has the highest score, but his claim obviously complicates things. I agree with SubG that there is a decent chance that CMAR was sheeping Haylen's claim.

This statement is unusually equivocal for you, Vollkan. You want to say he's scummy, but then you mention his claim affects your opinion, then you say that there's a good chance that he's lying about it anyway. You don't want to NL, but who are you thinking you want to lynch?

@Regfan
Condensing the VC's like that makes for some interesting reading. In particular, I think 2.20 and 2.21 are interesting, in which Max, Vollkan, and I are voting for CMAR. I'm not sure what to make of it, but it looks like an interesting focal point to investigate.

As I'm rereading, I'm becoming more and more convinced of CMAR's/Hindu's guilt. In particular, his breadcrumbing and claim seem extremely, extremely suspicious to me.

As I mentioned earlier, he started breadcrumbing in ISO 27, which was very near the end of day 2, shortly after Haylen's claim, and shortly after he garnered three votes. At the end of this very same post, he writes:

I'll be online til around 10 EST if I need claim.

To me, this indicates a certain eagerness to claim. He's almost asking someone to request his claim in the same post that he starts breadcrumbing. This seems odd to me.

Then, the fact that he claimed yesterday with one vote. If he was town, he wouldn't be worried about his replacement missing his breadcrumbs, his replacement would be able to refer to his pm and claim when it made sense. It seems more likely to me that he didn't want his breadcrumb defense going to waste, so he claimed when he decided he had to be replaced.

[subgenius]

Also, at this point, I think it might make sense to mass claim with Maxous releasing his final role last. Depending on what his final ability is, and assuming Hindu is scum, he might be able to nail the final scum during the night. I'd be willing to bet Hindu is a goon and his partner has an ability of some kind. That would explain why the mafia picked such a highly suspected slot to execute the kill. After tonight, if Maxous is NK'd we have bgg and regfan confirmed, and if he's not NK'd we probably have some useful info if his last ability is also investigative.

Actually, it might make sense to only have Vollkan and myself claim since bgg and regfan might be clears. Or maybe just have Vollkan and me claim first and bgg and regfan later if anything comes up that would make us think their claims might be useful.

Thoughts?

[Regfan]

I need to read into Maxous a bit more but at the moment his claim seems to be adding up. Throughout a large portion of day two he had a degree of suspicion towards me which dissapeared on day three, explained via the clearance he got by checking me on night two.

Mass-claim is indeed optimal right here with Sub+Volkan starting of and then progressing to Maxous outing his final ability followed by Bgg and my claims.

[bgg1996]

I'll believe Maxous, for now, if only because I can't figure out his partner for the life of me.

I suggest, seeing as how Hinduragi hasn't posted for 6 days now, we wait for him to be replaced, then immediately ask the replacee to reclaim, under the guise that we all already claimed. It can't fail twice!

Now if we assume Maxous, me, and regfan are all town, that leaves subgenius, vollkan, and hinduragi. Hinduragi would obviously be scum. For the teammate, I agree, vollkan seems to be the more likely candidate. Only slightly, though. I would have to look into it.



Either way it's an eccentric setup. Weak doctor, Sledgehammer, Jack-of-all-trades/1-shot jailkeeper.

And go ahead with the role-claim. There's got to be at least two more power roles.

Actually, I doubt that there are anymore town PRs, but mafia might mess up again.

[subgenius]

3 votes for claiming is enough for me. I'll go ahead and start.

I'm a

vanilla townie

.

[bgg1996]

@Maxous, I don't suppose you breadcrumbed at all?

[Regfan]

Has anyone ever seen a Joat in a mini-normal before out of curiosity?

It's a role that I've never encountered in any game before.

[Maxous]

@Maxous, I don't suppose you breadcrumbed at all?

Ack, no. I should of though, I'll know for next time.
Only breadcrumb I can think of is trying to hint that Regfan is town in case I flipped and trying to get the message across that CMAR and Haylen roles were probably mafia roles (since I knew there was another town power role in the game)

Has anyone ever seen a Joat in a mini-normal before out of curiosity?

It's a role that I've never encountered in any game before.

I done a brief search and here is a game with a town Jack of all Trades

I guess I could reveal the third role afterwards if everyone wants. Might defeat the purpose of the role but that does'nt matter too much.

[Hinduragi]

I jailkept Scott last night.

Now, concerning this JOAT claim business:

Since jailkeeping protects what would of had to happen is a mafia roleblocked Hinduragi and killed Scott. This is unlikely as why would'nt they of roleblocked SC instead of killing him.

I don't know why. Maybe because I'm one-shot and roleblocking me would use up my power.

Maxous, why did you target Regfan N2? Your vote was on CMAR and the last post you made suspecting Regfan was back in the early 30's or the 20's.

Has anyone ever seen a Joat in a mini-normal before out of curiosity?

It's a role that I've never encountered in any game before.

No. Then again, I don't play in many mini-normals. I checked the mini normal requirements, though, and it is a normal role.

[Maxous]

Hmm okay

Maxous, why did you target Regfan N2? Your vote was on CMAR and the last post you made suspecting Regfan was back in the early 30's or the 20's.

I was very suspicious of Regfan at the end of day 2 for :

1) Arguing against a Yura lynch because she was a newbie to the game
2) Arguing against a CMAR lynch at the end of day 2.

Basically my thoughtline was that Yura-CMAR-Regfan was the mafia team and I targeted the hardest player to nail to try and gain proof that he was mafia.

[subgenius]

I jailkept Scott last night.

Why did you pick Scott to protect instead of the confirmed innocent?

[Regfan]

Considering the fact that Scott led the charge against Haylen yesterday I see no real logical reason to save him.

On top of that, you're claiming to be Roleblocked. If there was a roleblocker they would have just roleblocked you and shot Bgg. Then you'd be forced to explain how he died and they would remove a clear.

On top of that, if you were roleblocked, you wouldn't have visited. This means if you were roleblocked Maxous would have no idea that you visited Scott, which he did.

Nothing about your claim and actions are adding up Hind.

[bgg1996]

Ok, this is simply absurd. First off, why did you not post for six days?
Second, why did you jailkeep Scott? I was a 100% confirmed town. Heeeellllllllooooo?!
Third, since you haven't posted any opinions of anybody yet, as far as I can remember, would you like to give your two cents?

You could at least

try

to avoid your lynch. Any other story, and all it would take is for Maxous to be lying. For this story, it would mean that there was a scum roleblocker who killed the person you were protecting.

[subgenius]

On top of that, if you were roleblocked, you wouldn't have visited. This means if you were roleblocked Maxous would have no idea that you visited Scott, which he did.

You're leaving out the possibility that Max is fake claiming, in which case, he would be straight out lying about knowing who Hindu visited last night. It is possible that Hindu was roleblocked and Max fake claimed and happened to accuse Hindu of visiting the correct player (who wasn't the obvious protection target), but the odds seem pretty long on that.

Hindu, you really should have taken the angle that Max is faking and claimed to have visited bgg. You're almost certainly scum.

[Hinduragi]

I played a game of WIFOM with the mafia, actually. They'd expect me to protect obvtown-bgg. If I choose the next towniest player behind him, this is the most probable kill choice. I didn't know they had a roleblocker. Why they didn't just roleblock me and shoot bgg is anyone's guess. The only possible situation I can perceive here is that I've been framed in a gambit when we are in a state of MYLO.

About the visiting, I jailkept Scott and he died. I was tracked to Scott. Since Scott died, I'm assuming I was roleblocked. So, the only thing that could've been lost in translation along the way was that Maxous lied about his role. I cannot fathom how scum would guess who I targeted unless he happens to be scum JOAT or scum tracker and lied about his JOAT night actions. Seriously, though, this seems far-fetched as hell considering how swingy the setup already is. I'm at a loss for a logical explanation.

P-edit:

Ok, this is simply absurd. First off, why did you not post for six days?
Second, why did you jailkeep Scott? I was a 100% confirmed town. Heeeellllllllooooo?!
Third, since you haven't posted any opinions of anybody yet, as far as I can remember, would you like to give your two cents?

I was rereading the rest of the game but didn't get around to making my wall.
Explained above. I like to play with a bit of gut and risk involved. Obviously, no matter what I did, that wouldn't have mattered anyways.
Yes, I believe the last two are a Maxous/Vollkan or Maxous/Regfan scumteam. I will give my reasoning in my catchup post so you all know why.

Hindu, you really should have taken the angle that Max is faking and claimed to have visited bgg.

That would involve lying, which is something scum would do.

[Maxous]

On top of that, if you were roleblocked, you wouldn't have visited.

Hmm really? I'm not sure if it means succesfully visited or attempted to visit.

*WIFOM*
Anyway if I was lying I would of certainly picked Bgg due to himself being confirmed town. I mean there still was a possibility going into night 3 that Scott bussed Haylen.

Preview edit: For myself to be in a mafia team that would require the mafia to brillaintly double-guess who Hinduragi would roleblock/protect and take a big chance in revealing that he visited Scott to frame him.
I can't be a mafia tracker because my buddy would have to be a roleblocker and if the two of us used abilities then who sent in the kill?
Oh wait! Actually I could be mafia with Hinduragi and we set this whole thing up. Ah still, anyway you look at it Hinduragi has to be mafia unless I'm like, half-psychic

Meh, I will reveal my third power, it is:
*drumroll
A one-shot roleblocker.

I don't think there is 3 roleblocking abilities. And for that to be the case the mafia team would have to Subgenius and Vollkan and would require me to ignore my suspicions on CMAR and Truant. I simply don't think so

VOTE: Hinduragi

[Regfan]

Way I see it, if Maxous is town then it's automatic win.

If he is legitimate then Maxous/Bgg/I are town meaning he roleblocks Volkan tonight. If a kill goes through Volkan becomes clear and Subgenius would be the last mafia, if no kill goes through we lynch Volkan and Subgeninus the following day.

Alternatively, if Hind is the last mafia it's literally impossible for him to win given the situation in which case he's just best of claiming outright.

[Hinduragi]

Obviously, this is going to be me vs. Maxous today regardless of any further discussion.

Vote: Maxous

I'll be doing the routine ISO and making a case in the meantime.

I mean there still was a possibility going into night 3 that Scott bussed Haylen.

I find it really hard to believe Scottscum would take the votes off of me and point out his buddy slipped up on her claim. He was almost as confirmed as bgg was. Plus, if Scott was scum, he would be under the least suspicion of all the people in his scumteam which would imply he would be making the kill tonight. If I jailkept him and no kill was made, we just got scum pretty easily.

Regarding the p-edit:
Yes, it would, that's why I explained how far-fetched it seemed. It's a huge stretch.
Good point.
LOL, that would be awesome. Yeah, half-psychic, I'm still thinking about how you figured it out.

Neither do I.

Alternatively, if Hind is the last mafia it's literally impossible for him to win given the situation in which case he's just best of claiming outright.

One problem there: I'm town.

[bgg1996]

Alright, this has gone far enough.

Vote: Hinduragi

If you were really town then you would see that Maxous is obviously telling the truth.
Can't you think logically? If Maxous was scum, then how did he know who it was that you targetted?
If you're both town, you can chalk it up to some roleblocker. If Maxous was scum, then not only would he have had to guess who you targetted, there would still have to be a roleblocker!

At this point, you are so obviously scum, that it isn't even funny.

[subgenius]

If he is legitimate then Maxous/Bgg/I are town meaning he roleblocks Volkan tonight. If a kill goes through Volkan becomes clear and Subgenius would be the last mafia, if no kill goes through we lynch Volkan and Subgeninus the following day.

This sounds like a good plan. I want to wait for Max to confirm this course of action before I vote, though.

[Maxous]

Sure, okay..
I shall roleblock Vollkan if there is another night period after we lynch Hinduragi.

[subgenius]

vote: Hinduragi