Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[PokerFace]

Hi I am replacing Katsuki. As I don't know what is going on...

Unvote

I'll read and catchup as soon as I can and vote for scum soon

[PokerFace]

Any chance someone can make my job easier by giving me a summary of what's been going on so far and or alerting to me to any impending deadlines?

[PokerFace]

I have read pages 1-8. I will read more later. Here is what I got so far.

My timezone is GMT -5 if that matters as some people said it earlier. not sure why it matters

I do have a general question. It might be because I am now hoped up on cold meds but for some reeason I am having trouble understanding some of what chevre and dutch are saying. Dutch repeats himself alot and chevre comes off as indecisive to me. I'm guessing Dutch one's first language is not english so that might be part of it.

@chevre what is your first language?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2743574
my eyes my eyes too much text!

@nocase, inhim

What was the point of that post restriction stuff earlier? I know you should be random early on to get conversation going but that felt too out there and or ridiculous especially with how inhim suggested he had one too. It was like he was trying to vindicate or validate the situation or take it too far.

@Gorrad

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2741802
You voted yourself at a time in the middle of the RVS stage. Not at its start. It was your second vote and came after some players voted you. It felt as though you were giving credit to everyone's gut suspicions of you at that point and or making a bad attempt at stopping your wagon. I think that was scummy. Why did you do it?

more later

[PokerFace]

this cold I got is bringing the hurt. for the first time in 5 years i may have to call in sick to work tomorrow. earliest I'll be caught up will be sunday

[PokerFace]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2744751
I thought You were trying to say what chevre post was fluff but

I'm not sure what i'm trying to prove.
I just feel like pointing some things out.

If you are not sure what you are trying to prove then why are you pointing things out? Feels like you are adding fuel to the fire while not being directly involved

_____

Actually a decent point has been raised:

@Sera:

What made you jump immediately to 'town wacky hijinks' instead of him lying as scum or telling the truth?

Where did seraphim jump to that conclusion? I may have missed it so I'd apreciate it. So much sinus pressure in my head, I feel like I'm missing alot in the game. Itchy watery eyes make reading the game almost unbearable

Read 1-12 I'll try to do more later

[PokerFace]

Ah ok I remember that now. thanks spryeX

I am starting to generate a few town and scum reads at this point so I'm getting somewhere now. disease starting to mfade which is awesome. I got more confidence in who i think is town so i am wondering if this is allowed

@ KHAN!
Am I allowed to proxy my vote? As in let someone else use it til i am all caught up?

[PokerFace]

Hey did gorrad comment on/ read chevre's big post?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2743867
He did, and that's all he said!? What strikes me as odd is did he ever vote chevre? He didn't do it then And he hasn't all game

_____

elaborating on reads

Scumish

Gorrad

: his treatment of chavre despite not voting him, looks like mudslining and trying to avoid the blame. I didn't like his second vote being himself

werewolf

: kinda does the same thing when he points out something but doesn't know why. Looks like he was just trying to copy others to stay hidden
Basically werewolf and gorrads behavior toward chevre seems simular. Like they are working together to get rid of him. i am a little torn on how to view chevre given the language they use is too sophisticated for me

inhim

: I still see him as looking bad from the post restriction thing since he seemed to verify nocases pr statement. Everybody was all like this must be a joke given the rules but he's all like its true its real because I have one too... NOT!

Town

DGB

: I have had the misfortune of playing against DGB alot. The majority of the games I have been in with her, one of us has been scum and the other has been town. Us both being town happens rarely and we have never been scum together. She nearly destroyed me in loser mafia and I wish i had voted differently in the invitational. He play here does not feel like the scum play I would normally expect from her. She seems to be going after who she thinks is scum as apposed to easiest to lynch

spryeX and red coyote

also look town to me. they seem to be working with a pro town inititive. Red wanting to hear from KMD before making a quick choice and SpyreX hunting of gorrad and sera look good

At page 16

I'll vote when all caught u

[PokerFace]

i'm in the process of some more catchup, btw who did crypto replace? His name is not on the front page of players and yet he just posted on this page

[PokerFace]

is gorrad at 9 votes or 10 votes? I am considering dropping the hammer

[PokerFace]

Yo DGB I wasn't on any wagon at the end there. I was not all caught up. I did get caught up during the night though so thats all good. I wrote this during the last night.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

@RC
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2772322
why did you self quote here? Did you question your own reads of seraphim or did i totally misread?

In reading RC's post I come across another question. I don't think Werewolf asked for farside to be modkilled I thought he wondered if farside would for something he had done before. I don't think he asked for farside to die back there. Do you disagree?

Elaborating on reads

Seraphim

- xtoxm needs to play

RedCoyote

- weatherman has been bringing up some good points on so i have been rethinking things on him. His jump from WW to gorrad did feel a little contrived

Weatherman

- any chance you can say who you are an alt of? I feel I have played with you before. Your bored mentallity rings town but your round about statements throw me for a loop, need to figure out who you are to see which actually matters when reading you. Are you all caught up in the game or you still catching up? At what time were you caught up btw?

DrippingGoofball

- I have had the misfortune of playing against DGB alot. The majority of the games I have been in with her, one of us has been scum and the other has been town. Us both being town happens rarely and we have never been scum together. She nearly destroyed me in loser mafia and I wish i had voted differently in the invitational. He play here does not feel like the scum play I would normally expect from her. She seems to be going after who she thinks is scum as apposed to easiest to lynch

Kmd4390

- lurker have not read enough of his stuff to get a read. he is actually lurker site wide which is rather uncommon for him so i really don't know what to think

Cyberbob

- townish somthing about his earlier posts struck me as town. Call it gut if you want

yabbaguy

- townish

SpyreX

- town

curiouskarmadog

- unsure

Chevre

- Confusing. I am having trouble dealing with you sophisticated playstyle. I'll figure something out

iamausername

- have not read enough of his stuff to get a read

nocase

- crypto seems town outside the bogus pr stuff earlier

inHimshallibe

- I still see him as looking bad from the post restriction thing since he seemed to verify nocases pr statement. Everybody was all like this must be a joke given the rules but he's all like its true its real because I have one too... NOT!

Korlash

- easily town. he never posts this much content as scum

Antihero

- unsure

Dutch one

- his jump on gorrad seems questionable. I am surprised he gave up on WW and did he ever say he found gorrad scumy? I don't believe he did. Also he just now made some classic scum tells

Crap! We lost a doctor. well, at least Xalxe is gone. But I'm quite disappointed that both Gorrad and Werewolf turned out to be VT's.

Unhappy Doc Died, happy SK died. See the last tell here
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... ding_Mafia
Nice night reactions. How long you been playing Mafia anyway?

Vote: Dutch one

[PokerFace]

and I type and paste slowly. didn't see yabba's last post. I'll have to read that now

[PokerFace]

Yes, I did say he was scummy. Look at my town/scum reads (from some time ago). The fact that you didn't know that tells me that you haven't really analyzed my posts.

I think you are only voting for me because Yabbaguy just accused me,

and you think I'm an easy wagon to jump on.

VOTE: PokerFace

and I type and paste slowly. didn't see yabba's last post. I'll have to read that now

Um no. And you definatly aren't an easy wagon.

Can you show me where you talked about Gorrad yesterday or what players you read as scummy as a result of yesterday?

[PokerFace]

Welcome back to mafiascum xtoxm. Also is that some wierd meta tell you think you had on me when you used to play alot?

[PokerFace]

@Dutch, you also did not percieve him as that scummy and thats the point I was going to make

@Korlash, why did you feel the need to do that?

@Nocase, Aside from xtoxm = seraphim is there any other reason to lynch xtoxm?

[PokerFace]

I'm a little backed up at work. Will get caught up tomorrow

[PokerFace]

To be honest Dutch, the main reason I decided to vote you today was your stance on gorrad. You reaction to the flips with no new analysis of who you do and do not suspect as a result are reasons I am still voting you. Your post just looked like an insincere reaction with no other purpose. I'd expect you to draw some conclusions from all that like how DGB wondered why xalxe died. What views do you have as a result of the flips? I asked you this earlier and am yet to get an answer. You only suspcion so far is let's go after PF since he went after me and i don't think he has read everything.

If Dutch flips scum I am thinking of going at chevre. There are a couple of things that link them and I will agree with yabba the time he took to claim was long, why did no one want his head just for that yesterday?

If Dutch flips town I am not sure where I will go. I will likly try to see who may have been unsincere while voting him or see hoped on what wagon with no reason. At the moment cheevre's vote seems most insincere like he is trying to get rid of dutch to protect himself later

@Chevre

Why did you vote CKD at the start of today? Why did you abandon that wagon and go after dutch? Is dutch scumier to you and why?

~~~~~

@RC

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2790883
1. ok yes I did misread at onwe point. damn page breaks.
2. Yay I thought he was just surprised farside survived it while he got MKed for it elsewhere. Its up to interpretation. I was wondering if you were trying to make him look worse than he did. Either way I guess you are right it doesn't matter now
3. Anybody who anybody will tell you I am better at hiding what I am than finding what others are. I scumhunt better on later days as connections from one scum to another seem to help me best. I didn't think you had much of a scum read on gorrad back then and fact you go after antihero at the same time you vote gorrad kinda through me for a loop. Kinda what DGB said once. FOS the scumier one and vote another? felt like some kind of misdirection, though i severly doubt you and antihero would be buddies so I am not going to hype on that at the moment

Are you voting Dutch because you think he is scumier than antihero or that he needs pressure right now? You kinda made simular remarks at antihero yesterday and voted elsewhere too. Basically why are you voting Dutch over hero when you seem to dislike hero more. If its just for pressure then do you plan to join the push for hero's death today?

And unless I'm still reading you wrong, did you say Dutch's reaction to the flips was worthless?

If you want to analyze it, that's fine by me. Why was there no analysis? If you want to vote based on it, that's fine by me. Why was there no vote? It's just this pure, "Dang! They got our doctor... frowny face. But at least we nabbed that serial killer... happy face." It's the most basic type of psychological manipulation. You're trying to tell everyone that you feel just like they do, and it's okay. It's like a forced empathy. I mean, I don't want to sound like I know anything about psychology, I just call out worthless drivel when I see it. This particular worthless drivel was aimed at making Dutch seem like "part of the town" more than anything else that I can tell. Unless you can point me to someone analytical angle that I'm missing.

And later

1.) It has nothing to do with being 20 minutes into the day or 20 days into the day. The content is absolute crap. You know it. I know it. Dutch knows it.

~~~~~

@Korlash

how much do you suspect Dutch one if at all? Is it greater than you SpyreX suspicion? Why or why not? Also why do you think Spy is scum I think I missed that somewhere.

~~~~~

I think weatherman is town. Off reads i had earlier were likly when he was not caught up. I think I might know who's alt he is and if i am right he is town

Something that just came to mind. DGB argues that the xalxe kill was a cross kill where scum wanted to kill scum. This would require 2 things. Scum knowing their are multiple groups and scum thinking xalxe is scum or wanting to get rid of xalxe to protect themselves. I don't think anyone had 2 out of those 3 reasons to kill xalxe.

I'll read posts 1077+ later today. My break at work is about to end!

[PokerFace]

@kubla
Can we get a vote count?
Can you possibly explain how a "delayer" SK works

[PokerFace]

@kubla
Can we get a vote count?
Can you possibly explain how a "delayer" SK works

sorry for triple posting but I want this to be seen and thus bolded

[PokerFace]

ouch, not sure how i missed that explaination of his role earlier. I guess i skiped over it as i didn't expect we'd get all the info just like that. my bad yo

just want vote count then. I'll read 1077,8,9 shortly as my boss seems busy

[PokerFace]

PokerFace, are you sure you're happy with your vote? Thought's on Spyrex?

Looking forward to hearing Antihero's opinions.

At the moment yes though i am considering looking into the antihero wagon. Iamusername's homework is good and it notes conections between antihero and chevre. I have noticed quite a few between dutch and chevre.

If there are multiple scum groups, I doubt they knew about each other, so scum would unlikly shoot xalxe for that reason. Either a vig hated xalxe or scum hated him. This is only a guess of course but werewolf probably was the vig target if there was one, leaving farside as xalxe's target and xalxe as the scum target. And given what DGB said and what i pointed out, I am really starting to consider an antihero, chevre, dutch pairing. Though I would expect a scum group in this setup to have more than 3 members. Not sure who else would be in a group like that

And yay i don't see the case on spyreX because i agree with him on a few things like dutch. Hense why i kinda want it outlined as i usually overlook those i agree with

[PokerFace]

@Kubla Khan
How much time will there be between when the deadline is revealed and when the deadline occurs?

[PokerFace]

Nothing real interesting I have felt the need to comment on has happened so yay this is mainly to avoid getting prodded as I forget the last time I posted.

Still waiting for Dutch to give what reads he has today and or say if the night results effected his reads. Going Oh wow that sucked and awesome SK death did nothing but give us reactions that I think were forced. His stance on gorrad yesterday was not what I thought would lead him to voting him at the end.

Speaking of Gorrad is he rejoining the game or something? Kubla saying he is proding him is surprising. I might not iso the mod because well he isn't a player so I don't see the need, but yabba and korlash have been nice enough to point some rules out to me.

Interesting thought. Of the cases out there which ones don't rely on meta? I prefer not to use meta as games and situations change often. Other than that I still think anti, dutch, chevre, ????+ sounds plausible. If deadline comes swift I'll join the antihero wagon though I'd like to re-read the case there one more time. I'll likly iso iamusername in order to get the antihero case figured out

"Yawn" see you guys later

Edit while pre-viewing: I see nocase is posting via pre-view. Looks interesting so I'll likly read that and the antihero stuff before I get back to you guys

[PokerFace]

Ugh didn't get arround to doing that reading I mentioned. I wanted to do it on anti and xtoxm because I wasn't too confident in how I was reading them earlier and felt like crap yesterday as a result of some bad food in my fridge. Seriously got to start checking expiration dates on the foods I buy. I have read some of the current stuff on the 2 of them and yay the end of this situation will likly solve things better than any re-reading. Off hand their actions seem to both be coming from townies with odd actions. Waiting for full-claim from xtoxm before I say more. Anybody that tries to coax him into weak cop or hider, one or the other should be shot. Let xtoxm come forward with the truth on his own and then let anti do the same so we can see who really needs to die.

Still liking my dutch vote and waiting on content from him. Will change pending on xtoxm anti hero situation excalation

@CyberBob

I was going to point out what Anti just did. What you said there still doesn't feel important at this moment. Its only important after xtoxm's alignment is given. I'm surprised you'd feel the need to bring that up even given what anti said. But meh I suppose its not directly scummy of you atm. point I want to make is let's not discuss that until after xtoxm and anti claim and after one of them flips should 1 need to die

Being tunneled has just made me kinda apathetic about this game.

Yeah, because threatening not to read the game if we don't stop suspecting you will really get you town points.

Vote: Antihero

Wow, if only you had done this a week ago you could've kept on living your life as a PR (assuming you are) undercover.

---

I'd throw my vote on anti-hero here but it's a dumb situation. We have two people who haven't claimed a damn thing. Unfortunately I think anti needs to elaborate more or the situation needs to be dropped. I don't see that happening so I'll be waiting for Anti-hero.

This.

Uhm exactly whose side are you on? You yell at xtoxm and then attack antihero. Are you actually saying you think they are both scum?

[PokerFace]

Official Vote Count

Notes/Prods

:

- Prodding Gorrad.. (Giving him 24 hours before replacement..)

- Current Deadline: Seeeeecret. {There will be a 3 day warning}

Uhm Khan what is this? Did he replace back in or did you paste the wrong name there or something?

Oops. Forgot he was dead. That new fangled Activity Checked thingy is causing me to no longer think critically about what I'm doing...

Disregard that note.

[PokerFace]

I kinda disagree with you Korlash. I think xtoxm should go first since his partial came first. And if anti goes first it gives xtoxm room to wiggle into a claim or basically pick something that won't make anti mad as he will be getting notice of what anti has on him prior to xtoxm claiming

I said what you quoted from me there as I basically don't want any helping and when anti hero said:

Yes. Does it help if I tell you that i'm a Hider (aka Weak Cop)?

Which one, hider or weak cop?

And yes, it's extremely important which one you choose.

I found it puzzling. I basically want xtoxm first, then anti, then why weak vs hider matter should we have reason to lynch xtoxm. Other than that I'm not sure why you get a bad feeling. Feel free to think or talk about it /get back to me there. Part of the reason I offered to replace into this game was because you were in it (had other reasons and did want to join a game with The Jester too since I missed both you guys) and ith all the games me and you have played together I actually don't think you have ever voted me outside rvs.

[PokerFace]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2814370
Bob's misunderstanding of CKD was reasonable, I can see how he might have missed what CKD was refering to, but what he said after it looked like a really bad reach. Like he was just searching for any reason to keep voting CKD. I am starting to loose the read I had on him earlier

PF, how can I pick a side when all I have are vague innuendos? Hell, who's to say they aren't both town?

Your point is valid and I am of the current thought they both are town, but the thought you portrayed earlier went after both of them so it was like you were saying they were both scum. It is possible that they are but I don't see how anyone could have jumped to a conclusion like that.

@Korlash,

I see what you are getting at but I still disagree. Hero could have kept his mouth shut and not even gave an inuendo when xtoxm gave his. It may not be a counter claim but there is a simular element in there. Can't put my finger on exact word terminology. I think if may have been some fancy non-english word I can't find in the wiki but basically anti called out xtoxm on his info and not the other way arround

Not liking DGB's last post. Later game lynch? How?

Side note, ok wasn't the food I ate. Found box in trash and it was good. I have not been feeling too well past couple of days. If I am getting sick again I will kill somebody. I ain't been sick in years up until the last time and now I get sick twice in a month. Thats ridiculous by my standards so this better not be happening.

[PokerFace]

Ok just a head cold. Not as bad as before so I shouldn't miss time. I read everything from my last post except weathermans post where he voted me. Did things that way as I was doing my reading at work. I'll read and concentrate on what weatherman said tomorrow or monday. I <3 marathon day

But I will take the time to say I have played with xtoxm many times. Our last game together we were both town and were masons together. And early in the game Xtoxm claimed masons and not with me... yay imagine how awkward that was for me. At least the night play we had there was awesome fun so its all good. So yay xtoxm does claim under practically no pressure as town. And I think KMD mentioned a game earlier where he claimed early as SK. So yay its not indictive of his alignment. Claiming early is something Xtoxm does.

KMD will have to find you a link to the game he mentioned as I am not sure where it is. The game where me and xtoxm were masons is in my wiki. Just do a search for the word mason. It was the only time I was mason on Mafiascum

[PokerFace]

Ok yay cold getting worse. Head throbbing and its a chore to think. I think I might need to go see a doctor at this poitn. fucking ridiculous I want to hurt somebody right now. Really hate doing this

V/LA until I say otherwise

sorry bigtime

[PokerFace]

I can't make the post I want right now (need to sleep proper nights, 2nd day at new work tomorrow morning), but guys:
READ THE POKERFACE ISO.
I'm starting to get bothered by the fact that he has never posted anything that doesn't feel like busywork.

vote Pokerface

His scumreads D1 (late replacement): Gorrad, werewolf, inHim.
Vote D2: Dutch man
Can you go more with the flow? with the rise of the Antihero wagon he stated was "considering looking at it" (what that even means I don't know) and commended iaun's post - town looks and decides or doesn't, but "considering to look" sounds exactly like a preparation to perhaps maneuver on.
end of D1:

is gorrad at 9 votes or 10 votes? I am considering dropping the hammer

beginning of D2:

Yo DGB I wasn't on any wagon at the end there. I was not all caught up. I did get caught up during the night though so thats all good. I wrote this during the last night. [etc]

Oh no I wouldn't have voted not caught up! Also, Katsuki was on Chevre, which DGB notes in the wagons analysis, and to which Pokerface replies with this misunderstanding; overly conscious on wagon placement.
Mostly I just get shivers from non-specifically explainable stuff; posts rich with using "questionable" instead of scummy (funny with the Dutch wagon starting with the fact that Gorrad was on Dutch's questionable list, not scummy list, Dutch mixing this up and PF bringing it up), "considering" to do things, being happy on the Dutch wagon waiting for Dutch's responses and generating content that looks like it's generated for the sole purpose of generating something, thoughts I don't think a person with a good scumdar would spout. His last post, as an example, is gut bad.

I honestly don't remember if I read katsuki's posts earlier. He is me so I already know what he is. No need to scumhunt I guy that is me. I think that may be why I didn't or at least didn't care too much about what he said. I don't think he was even paying attention to the game really

As far as whether I was or was not going to vote, caught up or not, well take a look at my posts up til that point. I was reading Gorrad as scum and I didn't think I was going to change my mind with how things were going. Both him and werewolf looked pretty bad and I didn't have really any other big reads. So yay part of me wanted to hammer so game would go to night and since their won't be game posts during night it would become way easier for me to get caught up

As far as busy work and saying I'd check anti and what not, well I've kinda been getting a bit bored waiting for dutch and what not. Dutch hasn't really done anything new so I've probably started to come off like a broken record there. So I've wanted to see if my vote would be better served elsewhere. Use it to find other scum since dutch obviously can't be the only one. Why I didn't look into it anti or some others yet, only answer I can give is general boredum spilling over and being busy in real life. I have never been replaced in a game and I think I've only been prodded during mass game prods in the past so I guess I didn't want to start, so I had to post something.

And if you are asking why check anti and not others well I wanted to check anti first seems he has been important to the current game state with his wagon and even more so now

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2814370
Bob's misunderstanding of CKD was reasonable, I can see how he might have missed what CKD was refering to, but what he said after it looked like a really bad reach. Like he was just searching for any reason to keep voting CKD. I am starting to loose the read I had on him earlier

Bob's post was merely stating a possible obvious scum motivation, perhaps no more likely than the town motivation, but I really don't see the reach.
"I'm staring to lose the read" bothers my gut.

Here's the thing though. Without bob's misunderstanding all he has is a possible motivation. A theory. Where's the backing for it? He jumped from A to point D without B or C. It felt like he was missing a step or reason to keep voting because the reason he gave when he voted was a misunderstanding.

PF, how can I pick a side when all I have are vague innuendos? Hell, who's to say they aren't both town?

Your point is valid and I am of the current thought they both are town, but the thought you portrayed earlier went after both of them so it was like you were saying they were both scum. It is possible that they are but I don't see how anyone could have jumped to a conclusion like that.

Aggressivity is the way to go about questioning things, I just can't feel this at all from RC's post.

The rest is not all that insightful either, sort of fluffy or stays on an obvious, superficial level.

Pokerface, you stated earlier you think you have a good guess who I am and based a townread on that hypothetical meta. Who am I and why town?

Then you and I understand aggressiveness on different levels. I usually only display agression towards those I think are scum and am trying to get others to agree with me. He went after both anti and xtoxm in that post, and that didn't make sence especially if he is considering them both to be town

Are you sure you want me to say who I think you are? If I'm right then what will you do? I'll tell you what, i'll say who I think you are but you don't need to say if I'm right or not. You obviously joined this game as an alt and you want to keep some animonity after all. Your playstyle feels alot like incognito's. I've played with him in a couple of games where he was town and you seem to have a simular style. Incognito hates playing as mafia and has stated as such on occasion as he doesn't feel he is good at it. If you were him and scum you definatly wouldn't be playing as you are. Though I suppose if you are him or not you haven't done anything that strikes me as scummy so I don't think you are scum whether you are him or not. I'm just even more certain you are town if you are incog

[PokerFace]

Working late tonight, on break

As far as busy work and saying I'd check anti and what not, well I've kinda been getting a bit bored waiting for dutch and what not. Dutch hasn't really done anything new so I've probably started to come off like a broken record there. So I've wanted to see if my vote would be better served elsewhere. Use it to find other scum since dutch obviously can't be the only one. Why I didn't look into it anti or some others yet, only answer I can give is general boredum spilling over and being busy in real life. I have never been replaced in a game and I think I've only been prodded during mass game prods in the past so I guess I didn't want to start, so I had to post something.

Yes this is the problem I was perceiving with many of your posts. they read exactly as "I should post something", which is

the

motivation for scum's posting except when one of their own is under danger. Bored town usually lacks that generic feel.

I'm not 100% sure what you are getting at. I think you are trying to say I look bored scum and not bored town. Can you explain how what I said translates to bored scum and its difference from bored town. Otherwise I don't see what you are getting at

I honestly don't remember if I read katsuki's posts earlier. He is me so I already know what he is. No need to scumhunt I guy that is me. I think that may be why I didn't or at least didn't care too much about what he said. I don't think he was even paying attention to the game really

this has so little relation to what I was talking about that it's almost funny but it doesn't lead anywhere sorting it out.

Please link games into which you've replaced. Couple latest as town and as scum. Particularly curious about stomping into a game and just happening to find the only 2 players under real scrutiny/danger your only 2 big scumreads (referring to the Gorrad/werewolf situation here).

I recall you mentioning katsuki and where his vote was in relation to DGB's comments so I explained why I at least wasn't thinking about him or where is vote was in relation to those comments

Here is stuff you asked for meta wise on all games I replaced into
Games I replaced into and was scum:
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5741
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9524

Games I replaced into and was town:
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6579
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9595
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6617 (This game had long streaches of boredum and catchup)

There were also 2 other games where I died and later replaced back into as town.
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11017
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9267

Another game where I was bored town at a few streaches during hasdfgas and ergo wagons
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8276

Games where I was bored scum... I actually don't know if I have any. I prefer being scum over town and mafiascum seems to not give me a scum role enough. Closest game to it would be Black Fang when I was bored about litral and some others not getting lynched for a short period of time, but yay litral and the others were in the other scum group and we knew there was another scum group, so hunting there is true scum hunting and I don't know if you can say its bored scum as I was not making lies or false accusations. Here it is if you care though I still don't think you can truly call me bored mafia there for the reasons I listed
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8926
If anyone recalls playing with me in a game where I was bored scum feel free to remind me

What DGB and Korlash say relating to anti's claim seem wrong. Xtoxm and anti are town as far as i am concerned. The doc is dead already so if anti was scum and wanted xtoxm dead, then the proper play would have been kill xtoxm at night. Problem solved. Townie trying to out a liar makes most sence for anti's actions. I won't be going back over anti and xtoxm's past stuff like I said I would earlier. That stuff made me uncertain of their alignments and the new stuff makes me certain they are town so I don't think backtracking needed now.

I am yet to read the recent big posts from chevre and dutch. My breaks at work need to be longer

[PokerFace]

Man I need to request some off work and soon. Read through the chevre and duth posts I missed earlier. Here's what I have to say:

@DGB

I'm starting to see what Antihero is talking about. I don't remember you guiving any reasons why you think certain players are scum. Can you give reasons on who you think is scum and why or direct me to where you have posted reasons? Do you still think Anti-hero had no reason to claim?

~~~~~~~

Chevre's presence on the dutch wagon is unsettling to me. From my point of view it looked like he jumped on the dutch to straight up protect himself.

In my "I'm going to be lynched so here's everything" post, I stated that I thought you were leaning scummy ever-so-slightly. That's pretty much my sole reasoning for the vote. I with werewolf555 nked, I was unsure of where to start.

I think if I am lynched/killed before Dutch one, you should immediately lynch Dutch one afterwards. The way he buddied me seemed like scum trying to appear town by saying "I told you so" after I'm lynched. Now with his reaction to the night's events, we know he will do that.

Vote: Dutch one

I don't see how he was budding with you earlier. If anything I think some of your interactions could make you both out to be scum buddies given I thought of it as scum buddy 1 trying to protect scum buddy 2.

@Chevre

Can you explain how you believed his actions too be buddying?

Your other comments on dutch don't look so good either

@Pokerface, sorry I never answered you about that. I started with pointing out my reads after the nightkills, but it took quite long so I pm'd everything I wrote to myself so I could finish it later. I hope Í'm able to post it today, but I have to walk the entire day with my parents today, so I'm not sure when I've got time for it. But I promise I will post it soon

There are so many instances of subtle Appeal to Emotion in this post it was noticeable. I'm not saying that he lied about what he was doing that day, but I think by specifying exactly what it was instead of saying "I'll be unavailable for the day" was a subconscious way to try to detract suspicion

Meh, do you like the idea of people online knowing what you are doing in real life? Some people don't even if the online people are practically strangers

Xtoxm's immediate reaction of a vote to Antihero calling him out was very suspicious. It reads as if he'd been seemingly caught, so he retaliated in the harshest way he knew possible.

Looked to me like anti was calling him a liar originally and if you are being called that then xtoxm's reaction was fine. He unvoted later figuring what Antihero was doing had to have a reason. So in a way that kinda shows he kept his head about them whether acting harshly or not

SpyreX was far too easily pressured by Antihero asking for a vote on either him or Xtoxm. I probably wouldn't have voted either, simply because there was far too little information visible at that time. Xtoxm had said he knew yabbaguy was not dangerous, and Antihero said he was lying.

I didn't think antihero was really pressuring. he just thought xtoxm was lying. I think pressuring would be more in depth than. X is lying vote X. I don't really like where you are thinking in General here

@Chevre

Do you have any remaining suspicions on xtoxm and antihero that are actually rational?[/b][/i]

~~~~~~~

One of the things that took my attention is a kill that didn't happen.
If you think about it, DGB has played a leading role since the start of the game, what makes him a very dangerous player. I really expected him to be nightkilled in day1 because of this.

Why is this noticable.
it would be very likely that they would've killed him, unless:
- he was scum himself (scum won't nightkill it's own members)
- he was at a very wrong track. Since he has quite a lot of influence in the game, people he thinks that are town are relatively save. If there is scum between his town reads, it is quite likely that they want to keep him in the game sice he is almost like a buffer for them.
- he was exactly at the right track. If he was exactly right it would've been obvious if he was nightkilled.

It is always diffcult to determine why certain players are alive. The scum may be planning to kill them later, there could be multiple people on the right track and scum can't make more than one kill. I can see why you are surprised but I don't know if we can actually determine the most likly answer

Chevre. Before the end of the day, you have

always

been marked as a townie by DGB. That did save you from getting lynched. If you are scum it is very likely that you would've kept him alive, as a shield.

Can you show me this

always

? I am pretty sure DGB wanted him dead at a few point yesterday

The thing about you is that you entirely changed after day 1. in the first day I had the feeling that you didn't really care that you was suspicious (you dared to take risks and your opinion about everything) but in day 2 you became very cautius. The only thing you have actually done in day 2 was accusing me from buddying you. A lot of people voted me in the beginning of this day so it was an easy bandwagon to jump on. I have the feeling that the only reason that you are still saying this is because you can't drop your accusations suddenly, you have to go on to not make it look like you didn't mean it.
And buddying??? How did you even get that idea? I defended you a couple of times in day 1 (maybe because I thought you were town and there were only a few votes needed before you was lynched), so that means that I tried to buddy you so I had a save status as scum?
in the beginning you started with saying "If I die, than Dutch One could possibly use my death to prove he was right." And now you are saying (without anything happened between these two posts concerning this case) "Dutch One was obviously buddying me, with meta's he tries to keep a neutral status. He has to die, no matter what."
I don't see how you can suddenly change you opinion from "well... it could be, but I'm not sure, it's only an idea..." to "OMG!! It's so obvious!! he is certainly scum, all evidence is there."

FOS Chevre

He figures if you'll give a reaction to night deaths and lynch deaths once, that you will do it again. I don't see it as scum buddying to town either nor do I believe your orginal actions were an I told you so

_____________________

Gorrad

- 8 - iamausername, Cyberbob, DrippingGoofball, SpyreX, Antihero, inHimshallibe, yabbaguy, nocase

werewolf555

- 6 - Chevre, farside22, RedCoyote, Dutch one, Korlash, curiouskarmadog
Chevre - 2 - Seraphim,

Xalxe

, nocase - 2 -

Gorrad

,

werewolf555

, DrippingGoofball - 1 - Kmd4390
RedCoyote - 1 - Weatherman
_____________________

Gorrad wagon has too many persons on it to not have any scum.

Antihero probably voted Gorrad because he was a large (and believable) wagon. Antihero has had a lot of accusations his self, so I assume he went for the "easy and good" wagon.

Werewolf555 wagon. CKD has accused WW many times, he was very inactive so that was quite an easy target. Same as with Chevre.

DGB is not scummier because of Gorrads alignment. He was so busy with hammering Gorrad, you aren't doing that if you already know he is town. Than I would've suspected him to be more passive and neutral about his lynch (not obvious "screaming" your opinion).
Yabbaguy just jumped in at that moment, so I don't see any to get more suspicious on him because of this.
I'm a bit neutral about the others who voted Gorrad now.

Nocase wagon was purely town. But Nocase have been accused by many people on here (it's certain that both scum and town have accused him), when the day ended it was just coinicidental that there were only 2 townies voting for him. I don't really see that as very scummy, just coincidence.

Chevre wagon. Xalxe was third party scum. Probably voted him because he was still considered as a reasonable lynch. But Xalxe did not know who was all town and who were scum, so this doesn't defend Chevre either.

Descent analysis.

Tell me what you think of the recent anti and xtoxm events and if you have any suspicions that still hold on them

~~~~~~~

I'll catch up on everything else when I am off work tomorrow. Got to read all posts from 1363 onword. Rate things going I'd be happy lynching either of them. I think they can both be scum and scum together so order they go does not seem to matter

[PokerFace]

For Yabba my Top suspects

Chevre and dutch

-Giant gap-

inhim
Red Coyote
Korlash

People I might re-think

DGB
No case
I have been listening to you yabba, there are some questionable things these two have been doing in relation to the dutch and chevre wagons. How they feel about them but I'm saving looking at them for later as if dutch and chevre are not scum then there is not real point to look at no case. I do still want to see DGB regain to luster she had earlier in the game and or give some reasons for what she is doing cause her recent wagoning and comments seem almost par with what inhim is doing. imhim has been wagoning and his recent opinion change on weatherman is surprising. I'll admit to one of the reasons that weatherman pointed to is interesting

I still don't get the SpryeX case. Is it just meta? Cause I don't see or understand where that one came from. I like to lynch on more than meta and I like to lynch on more than just lurking. KMD and ckd to a lesser extent have been lurking but... thats it. Either I missed memo (it probably involved title pages and TPS reports) or lurking is it and I'd rather lynch for more reasons than that. If someone wants to give me more reasons I'd like it

Korlash's view of Anti and xtoxm given the recent proceedings feels all wrong. What anti and xtoxm did made sence. Korlash has been one to point out important details and cercumstances I have missed before but this seemed like he was trying to discredit things other than reason them along to what is likly scenario. Like his purpose was to discredit anti and not see who was telling the truth. Basically get us against them. Xtoxm and Anti are not confirmed but given how everyone thinks so well of them, discrediting them would be something scum would want to do.

Spyre X said Korlash dropped a serious town tell I'd like to know what it was. Other than the antihero comment, Korlash ain't done no wrong. Perhaps Korlash can explain the Spyre X case to me.

That way I can see if investigating or questioning Korlash with further suspicions is worth it and get a grasp on the SpyreX situation too. That would be most helpfull. So yes Korlash enlighten me on Spyre X when you get chance and Spyre X please do the same on Korlash

~~~~~

- Re PokerFace's little followup on my post about CKD: did you miss the part where the thing I was misunderstanding wasn't the entirety of why I voted him or what? I still didn't/don't like the way he threw his vote on an unrelated party for no good reason.
- I mostly concur with Korlash's reaction to Antihero in Post 1328.

Ok that I get. I think I got lost in all the stuff going on and forgot your had brought that up as well. Given what else you said in that post you'd have rather ckd waited out the situation with where his vote was or put it on nither as apposed to seeking a new direction or no taking part and avoind the xtoxm/antihero situation. yes?

And you agree with Korlash? So you think Anti-hero could have done all that in a scum attempt to get rid of xtoxm during the day? Would it not be simplier to just wait til night to kill xtoxm since it looked like he was claiming cop?

Bob's remarks on nocase are good. His jump on the chevre wagon given what no case has said about her before looks bad for no case. The begining of post 1387 paints a good picture of a no case chevre link from the other side of the page. Chevre did kinda stay out of saying how she felt about no case's fake post restriction. The rest of iamusernames post goes into giving good reasons why chevre needs to die and I won't complain about that

~~~~~

I reviewed chevre's recent case on dutch. I don't see how it was buddying or an attempt by dutch to get on your good side chevre or an attempt to look good as a result of your death as in an I told you so manor. 1 he didn't say I told you so about gorrad or the others because he stated he thought the opposite was gonna be true. That was not and I told you so and 2...

I will simply not believe that Dutch one believed that the werewolf555 lynch was far less inevitable than mine ever was. It appears that since the person he is voting is actually the leading bandwagon, everyone must go with it. However, when I was nearing lynch or even at L-1, Dutch one certainly didn't "live with it."

This is why. WW is dead and flipped town. If Dutch is scum and you are vanilla town as you claim chevre, then why didn't dutch treat you the same as he treated WW? If you are town, you have the same role as WW and Dutch knows it as you claimed it and scum would suspect town to lie. And Dutch scum's actions as you present then would make no sence from a buddying perspect because you and WW would have some role and you to had both acted equally dumb and anti town on day one. Hell what you said in that post is half the reason I think you two are buddies. Dutch favored lynching WW over you, you both played bad and anti town, Dutch gave no good reason to thinking you were town other than thinking the day 1 lynch would be unproductive and likly hit town. If he gave a good reason yesterday that goes against why he is voting you now I'd like to see it. Lookslike you too are just desperatly trying to save your own hides. You can read this paragraph again and compare how dutch treated gorrad and jumped to him at the end of day 1. He wanted a townie dead not you dead and WW and goarrad were town while I think both you and dutch are scum

Three things jumped out to me as appeals to emotion. First, the (bolded first) sorry is the easiest, it's just kind of a "please don't be mad, I'm really trying, can't you see?" as the rest of that post carries on. The second thing is the (bolded second) useless details. Dutch one could've simply said, "I'll be unable to post today," but he went even further by not only telling us what he was doing, but making it sound awful (at least, walking the entire day with one's parents sounds awful to me). Finally, the winky emoticon. It's just unnecessary, it's not supplementing a snarky joke or bit of sarcasm. I almost feel like it could be subconsciously linking Dutch one and PokerFace.

Ha Ha yay nice try. Harping on 'anybody' like that when you don't know what they do in real life is just wrong. I'll admit cutch did lurk from my comments some and spyreX pointed it out plainly earlier but its really not in good taste to do it on something like this. Don't harp on an excuse, harp on when there is no excuse. When SpyreX pointed out Dutch's "?" post there was no excuse so that was a good catch while what you are doing is not. Looks like you are just trying to find any reason to go after dutch as your buddying reason was crap. Yay you two can't find the right reasons to go after each other so it all looks like fake distancing because you really are together

I am down with lynching chevre and or dutch. Don't care who goes first. You want me to hammer now or is there something you guys thing we should wait for?

[PokerFace]

ugh I am poor typist ebwop time

Ok that I get. I think I got lost in all the stuff going on and forgot your had brought that up as well. Given what else you said in that post you'd rather ckd had waited out the situation with where his vote was. Or you wish he had not voted either as apposed to avoiding the situation by perhaps looking elsewhere for scum. yes?

my speech gets convoluted some times and I didn't entirly like how i said it earlier, seemed confusing to me and I said it

...

This is why. WW is dead and flipped town. If Dutch is scum and you are vanilla town as you claim chevre, then why didn't dutch treat you the same as he treated WW? If you are town, you have the same role as WW and Dutch knows it as you claimed it and scum

wouldn't

suspect town to lie.

[PokerFace]

I'm not going to get into my Xtoxm/Anti stuff. Everything I said is correct so you can choose to take it however you want, i find the whole topic utterly irrelevant.

ok I guess we agree to disagree then

As for Spy, I can only speak for myself. Yesterday he pushes Gorrad for 30+ pages without seeming to add anything to it. The one case he actually did post he goes on almost whining about how no one is paying attention to it, then when I do comment on the subject he throws his hands in the air and says he doesn't have time to talk about it. So mainly it's the pushing one guy's lynch for the entire day craving praise for his 'case' and shying away from having to actually defend it. Not much of a case but I hadn't planned on just letting my vote sit here all day. Kinda started falling away from the game sometime early today...

Ok I actually like that way of putting it

I

should

have time tonight to dive into the Chev stuff and see what all that's about. I'll take another gander at spy along the way. What I really want to do though is get something together on Dutch. Gun to my head I would rather lynch

him

then Spy at the moment just because I actually do want to discuss Spy more, but I'll save changing my vote until I can actually get something on paper.

Does the him refer to dutch? I just want to be sure I read that right since I didn't think you'd go that way. If you want to say more ok just be sure to get it in as I will hammer and or get chevre help dieing

SpyreX's turn to move on what I said. I can guess at how bob would respond to what I said earlier so waiting for that isn't dire. Will still hammer if need be I think I need to go back and count to see if my vote really is the hammer though before I worry so much about it ending things imediatly

@Yabba

chevre already claimed he was Vanilla, unless there someone else you wanted a claim that process is not needed

[PokerFace]

Went back and counted

There was 5 on chevre in KK's last coun
KMD = 6
cyberbob = 7
Dutch = 8 if it counts which would make the next vote the hammer

@KK
Does Dutch's recent vote count?

[PokerFace]

I can't really say that's a town tell in my book. Korlash remarking on it like you should know better also feels wierd, but then there are alot of wierd things about Korlash, Ha Ha. I don't think either SpyreX or Korlash should be lynched today, definatly not my top suspects and if chevre and dutch are scum I don't see Spy and Kor as being with them

No hammer on Chevre yet?

i'd like a response from bob but that can wait til next game day if needed since I can guess his response
Xtoxm
iamausername
inHimshallibe
have not posted since the deadline was announced. I'll give them a chance to say something should they need to. And I'll hammer late tonight or tomorrow morning

[PokerFace]

yay I think I'm with inhim on that. This ain't the time to be trying to start start a wagon like that from scratch especially since there is no reason to unvote chevre at this point.

Thanks to DGB's unvote Chevre is 2 off from death actually

Unvote vote: Chevre

back to 1 off again. I doubt Iamusername will have anything new to say. His opinions have been well given so far. Xtoxm should have time to show up. Last I checked he was after SpyreX ad I doubt that will change. So he might not have anything new either. We can keep waiting if its needed I guess but I'm putting it back to L-1

[PokerFace]

Yay with the SK terminated you'd expect 1 less death at night. Scum suicide bombers typically save there suicide bomb for a last resort and its usually a day option. Xtoxm most likly died because of his role

Townly

Yabbaguy

<targeted him night one

Korlash

<likly target for night 2?

Kmd
Dutch one
Weatherman
iam
CKD
inHim

Neutral

RedCoyote
Cyberbob
Chevre
PokerFace
nocase
Antihero

Scummy

Spyrex
DGB

The order in the town list is relevant. The order in the other lists is not

.

DGB I replaced in on Night 1 and had to make a choice based on only very limited reading,

so I went for someone who I had a town lean on who I thought would not be NKed

.

Given how hard xtoxm went at spyreX he is a possible option for where xtoxm went. And another option I see would be Korlash as Xtoxm may have hid with him for the same reasons he hid with yabba before. I think I'll check them both out and see if either had a connection to CKD

[PokerFace]

Correct play when you are a hider is usually to confirm as many inocents as possible

Given how hard xtoxm went at spyreX he is a possible option for where xtoxm went. And another option I see would be Korlash as Xtoxm may have hid with him for the same reasons he hid with yabba before. I think I'll check them both out and see if either had a connection to CKD

that's a bit of a stretch there poker... Unless you're saying he made a choice based on limited reading last night as well. I would think after being in he game for a full day he wouldn't have had to resort to the same tactic. Given the fact he claimed so readily and that he identified himself as "weak cop" i don't particularly think he was interested in self survival or townie hunting.

And you guys know I'm down with the Spy wagon... Just not going to put a dude at L-1 without letting him speak first... against my lovable and caring nature.

I never claimed i'd finished reading the thread. I've only read up to page 9, actually. Being tunneled has just made me kinda apathetic about this game.

I have no real objection to be being lynched, but I think it would be kinda dumb seeing as how i'm confirmable and all.

Arguements can be made in both directions. Still either xtoxm hid with you or he hid with spyreX. I severly doubt he'd pick someone else at random. One of you guys needs to die today. I doubt your are on the same side given previous comments. I am at work so I haven't found time to see which is ckd's more likly buddy. will vote when i find that time

Well that would still leave the assumed vig's kill MOA, and i see no suggestion CKD's role would prevent the other scum from also killing. Meaning their second kill would be AWOL as well. CKD bombing Nocase is a bigger stretch then the spanish Inquisition...

Also I wasn't expecting the spainish inquisition...

[PokerFace]

Reads

Cyberbob

- given the ckd flip he is town given their previous exchange

Antihero

- town

iamausernam

e - town

yabbaguy

- town

Weatherman

- Still thinking town even though his unvote of spyreX felt bad. Seriously why do Vanilla claims ever deter anything? I don't get it

Kmd4390

- Nuetral, no firm pull either way but he hasn't done anything truly scummy in my mind

Dutch one

- Nuetral, given chevre's flip and a couple other things I'm not really certain what to think. Hoping he gets time to give some new good activity to solve all that

inHimshallibe

- Something he has done with wagon riding and reads have sparked me as odd. I get the feeling he is not closely following the game. Is quick unvote of SpyreX felt bad though

RedCoyote

- When the spyreX wagon started he was all its any man's guess where xtoxm went and then he changed opinions. I get the feeling he is scum riding on the coast of opinions so he can go and attack either way

DrippingGoofball

- Really hating all of her play except they day 1 stuff. I could see her as scum

Korlash and SpyreX

. One of them needs to die. Anyway I look at it Xtoxm had to go one of these 2 ways. No doubt in my mind. Looking over CKD, didn't lead me to either of them. Looking over SpyreX and Korlash I think this statement is true

The first person to stand out to me was Spy, so i guess the read up focused on him more then anyone else. But I like the content I was able to amass in my notes on him so I'll stay where i am before attempting a second read-up. So lets get somethings down on paper.

...

4* His skirting of the question who besides gorrad is scummy, saying Xalxe is his number two, yet I can't recall him ever saying anything about Xalxe. (If he did it didn't make my notes.) I don't see how CKD isn't his number two... I'm fairly sure He's mentioned the link with Gorrad more times then he's mentioned Xalxe...

** - Or at least make his case look better/stronger for it.
*** - Not actually saying you ever said this, but mentioning it as a preemptive so you can't use it as a reason for why you did it.
**** - I think that's what he meant. i never fully understood his post 463.
***** - Huge exaggeration on my part. But it's honestly the first reaction I had to his comment.

The only point in Spy's favor is that he doesn't want to go after CKD before Gorrad, but it only helps show how little he has talked about CKD on his own. for someone who has said multiple times "Gorrad-CKD scum pair yuk yuk yuk" I would think he would care enough to say something about CKD...

I'm going to

vote: spyrex

like I said I do feel i was slightly bias on my reread paying more attention to the first person to strike me as 'scummy', but the end result is too good to ignore. I'm all for the 'whatever' wagons, like Chev's and the soon-to-be Gorrad one, but a lot of you have mentioned Spy's stuff as being good, or well explained, or making sense... and it is plain and clear bullshit.

Vote: SpyreX

In my head I am batting arround the idea of a CKD, SpyreX, DGB, RedCoy scum team. Sounds pretty darn good at the moment. Inhim could replace Red in that possibility but red is making more sence in the pairing at the moment. If SpyreX is scum that would def confirm Korlash isn't scum to me. Cyberbob is already good and town and most of my other town reads are strong

[PokerFace]

@Weatherman

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2869797
I don't really subscribe to a meta view like yours. I'll admit to thinking you have a point on that pattern being true still I'd rather it remained true because if we were to let scum always claim vanilla to get away from lynches I don't think that would be good for the site

also
"do you know what i hate about europe? every fucking little country has different keyboards."
note to self, bring laptop if I ever go on euro trip

_______

If SpyreX is scum that would def confirm Korlash isn't scum to me.

I'm interested in why. Wouldn't Spy as scum make me questionable? Not only have I been "arguably" focused on him almost all game, but isn't he the one that mentioned some sort of "town tell" I did? I would think that would at least be evidence of a possible buddy relationship. Hey, I'm all for being "confirmed town" in any which way I can, but I'd like to know why if it's possible.

In the post you pointed out a link between ckd and spyreX. If you were scum with them then that would mean you just rated out 2 members in your faction. I've heard of bussing but I don't think you are capable of that kind of bussing. You couldn't gaurantee any of their deaths in a plausbile strategy to make yourself look good like that on day 1. Also Korlash you don't strike me as the elaborate plan and or bussing scum type player. I can tell you are good at being mafia from previous games but I think your strength is misdirection, being able to comically apeal to the nature of others, and coast along things without notice so that no one gets rid of you. You are that type of player. The elaborate plan type that tries to look town constantly and stay alive despite what happens to his buds is not you. Thats the type of scum player I usually am, so I can tell you aren't it. Also seriously man I swore you were gonna post a monty python video when I made that spanish inquistion comment earlier. I was so disappointed

_______

My personal modding views have roleblocker actions always happen first so that scum in theory could kill hiders by other means than getting the hider lynched. Otherwise I think Hider is just too powerful as scum can't kill it at night and people will always get confirmed. Don't get me wrong i don't suspect yabba still I'm not calling him confirmed in case kubla subscribes to the same philosophy I do. I also allow actions like tracking and watching to see hiders but thats another story.

_______

I still think all scum remaining exist in (SpyreX or Korlash not both), DGB, Red, Inhim. Though I think I am likly wrong on one of them as I don't think a game of this size would start with 5 mafia. Its been awhile since i been in a 20 person game so someone is welcome to correct me but i think the norm there is 4 which would mean I'd have to be wrong somewhere given ckd is already dead and scum

Iamusernames problem with me seems to stem from me being lazy and not doing what I've often said I've wanted to do. I <3 procrastination when I am bored. Gess I got to stop doing that and post stuff involving spyreX and CKD. Be back soon

[PokerFace]

something else korlash is the fact you asked me a question about you

I'm thinking you asked me that because you wanted to question or scumhunt me especially when you earlier said you had problems with me. if you were the scum and exisibiting the play I'd expect from you, where you'd stay far away from your buddies and coast, you wouldn't have asked that question. You wouldn't gve a damn why I didn't think you were scum with spyreX and ckd. When we were in death Note mafia you didn't give a shit when I unvoted you day 1 when you were scum and I said I wasn't suspicions of you in that game.

so yay I'm find more reason to think korlash is town which makes spyreX the more likly scum

[PokerFace]

Uhm DGB, can you tell me who you think is scummiest and why you haven't been voting any of those people yet today?

just a thought, it feels like you've been doing alot of egging on from the sidelines as of late

[PokerFace]

V/LA until further notice

long story short. Bad pipes in main floor shower leaking water into laundry room, potential lake in basement

[PokerFace]

VLA Ended

Leak repaired. I can now use my shower again and stop fishing in my laundry room. I'll be caught up on what I missed as soon as possible

[PokerFace]

DUTCH MAN. REPLACE OUT.

I'm starting to think I should replace out aswell. I'm deeply depressed in real life and some of that is carrying into this. I'll try to get back into things tonight otherwise I think I may be done.

[PokerFace]

I read over some of the more recent stuff. I will reiterate a few things

I know Xtoxm fairly well. I believe he is the type of guy that would put his own agenda before the town
Why: I was masoned with him once in a game. He believed Zeenon to be town and claimed mason with Zeenon when xtoxm was only mason with me. yay that was rough for me. I probably deserved it though for something I did to xtoxm once so I hold no hard feelings toward him for anything and think he is a player that has certainly grown in skill over time.

Game I reference: http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11344

I don't believe he is the type of guy that would try to out think the scum by targeting the guy lowest on his town list "inhim" and or out think the scum by saying "he would not be apposed to an inhim lynch" before he did it. I think that way because I highly doubt xtoxm who was somwhat disinterested in the game would create such a master plan and or risk everything like that especially since that post involving inhim

was not after the deadline was anounced

. I highly doubt he would think that far ahead at a time when there was no urgency especially since he certainly didn't think far ahead in the game we masoned together in. I mean lets face it, he would have to come clean and say I was his mason buddy eventually in that game and or face his death, my death, and zeenon's death. He didn't think that far ahead then and I don't think he'd think that far ahead there.

It is far more believable that he went the simplier route and either went to the person he thought most towny in the order mattering list, Korlash. Or the person he though most scummy, Spyre X. And I am willing to bet pretty much anything on that. Should SpyreX flip town I want Korlash dead.

I got a lot to catchup on and all I just said is not only reason I want spyreX dead. I will get to those reasons asap

also... Hi ojanen, I knew you felt familar but wouldn't have guessed you. And as I am a respectable guy I won't make a big deal about anything involved there any further

[PokerFace]

progress update. caught up through page 67. Need sleep. will get remaining pages tomorrow and make big post with catchup and spyreX case

@KK I'm not V/LA.

I just haven't been myself, bad luck in my life all over with stress and crap. I even have Jury Duty on Monday though yay I should be fine there as my jury number is 462. I like that its high but seriously wtf you need that many possible people to select from? I'll be fine I feel alot better and we were able to push one of things we had at work onto the market so that def freed up sometime and put air back in my lungs

[PokerFace]

OK I am caught up. Gonna make 2 posts back to back. 1 catchup/reads and other spyreX & ckd stuff

I still think all the scum got to be in (Spyre X or Korlash), inhim, DGB, Red. If I have to throw an extra person into the question it would be dutch just because I have a a slight nagging feeling ckd was gonna bus him but jumped ship when he realized he could. It is a slight feeling though so I'm not gonna go about pushing any wagons there. I'd like him to do something while/if he still truly wants to do something in this game. Won't entertain thoughts of Iam being scum as he jumped off the spyre X wagon when he didn't directly need too and he has pressured me when unneeded. He doesn't strike me as a scum that would do things in vain and go arround hap hazzard. Username scum would likly push harder and try to control this game more if he was scum given good standing he currently has. Weather has been going through rough stuff but has been awesome otherwise and yay I've had the worst real life luck ever as of late so yay weather is town. yabba and anti looked town earlier and I see no reason to change my mind. KMD is pretty nuetral though I kinda doubt he was with CKD. I don't see alot of possibility of it

DGB is probably moving to the outside of that scummary. I don't like how she has lost some of her day 1 presence in the game or how she seems to be getting more random but i don't think its as bad as the rest.

I don't think Red is scummy for hammering chevre. A lynch needed to happen, no lynches suck, it felt off that he was the one to do it but it needed done. And if he was scum only way he could benefit from that would be if he was saving a buddy from the noose so unless he is with dutch, the chevre hammer was a necessary town move to avoid no lynch. I do have some Qualms with him involving the pattern spyreX pointed out and his opinions seem to change pretty quickly. His response to spyre X was terrible when the pattern was first mentioned. Also at day start he was all 1.we can't assume anything on where xtoxm went, 2.then he goes after spyreX for xtoxm, 3.then he backs off and says we can't assume and that spyreX is town. This doesn't sound like a logical 1 2 3 process especially 1 to 2

I don't think Xtoxm would go to inhim but that doesn't mean I think inhim is town. I understand the true inhim hate. He hasn't really had a firm presence in this game and mostly road wagons with whoever. I'd be curious to know why he didn't have certain people on his want to lynch list earlier. That list was huge. Only 4 people still alive weren't on his list. Korlash, Anti, SpyreX, Iam. I'd like to know why he thinks Korlash and SpyreX are both town. And why did he abandon his previous Weatherman town read? And I mentioned earlier I had problem with him faking the PR more than No Case because inhim was the second to do it. He was the first to take the joke further and actually give no case ground to stand on. Like he said "it was ok to fake prs let's all do it!" I like the connection Iam pointed out between ckd and inhim too. Yay if deadline comes swift again I will get behind this if I can not get a spyreX lynch. Korlash's more recent comments towards spyreX are kinda making me want to back off a bit. Don't like Korlash's recent attitude but I still think there is reason to see ckd spyreX connect

@Korlash,

Yes Zeenon was getting heavily suspected and well you should remember part of that game already. You replaced into it later on for hohum. Didn't you read/remember what happened there? Or you just been on hiatus too long?

Korlash's alignment is still opposite of SpyreX in my book. What Korlash did earlier did look somewhat like gloating towards spyre X, and Scum buddies may distance from each other but they don't generally disrespect. Thats kinda same reason I don't suspect Cyber. His response to CKD earlier was disrespective when he didn't care about the .... post .... If they really wanted to distance from each other there I think Cyber bob scum with CKD would have put forth alot more effort to do it.

Thats the catchup, next spyreX & ckd

[PokerFace]

Time to finally do some actual grunt work on spyreX and not just parade arround with what I think Xtoxm did.

spyre X first brings up CKD as a result of:

Chevre isn't looking good. I agree with Shakespeare-scum tell and non-committal posts-tell, so let's see if we can hammer at one of those.

Chevre, I want your opinion of me, CKD, and Cyberbob, and SpyreX. No less than three sentences for each, stating why you believe them to be scum or town. Make it so that a random person I walk up to can understand you without issue. (Please note: I live in Texas. So assume a low average intelligence).

Me because I was the first wagon. Cyberbob because he's my main suspect. SpyreX and CKD because they have yet to be the target of any talk, so Chevre can't just follow the crowd.

...
If I've got to go through and look at how many people have actually 'been talked about' I will but I'd rather not.
There's one sure thing in common with Cyberbob and I though: We've both voted for Gorrad. HUH SHOCKER.
Which means I'd push the chance of CKD the 'random' name being a scum partner up. And its not like that's gonna be brought up:

CKD, money where your mouth is time. Point out where the firm stances and opinions are.

Chevre, I honestly appreciate the time and effort you put into making such a post. Mod: Would giving Chevre's WoT post to a person on the street and asking their opinions of it be in violation of any rules (such as talking about the game outside of the thread)?
That said, as I just hinted to, you really didn't give anything firm. The trend with you so far has been a lot of analysis with very little solid hunting. It's early game, so that can be forgiven, but I expect to actually see firm stances as the game goes on.

Aside from an obvious question this is still timid baiting. Real timid.

But this does start the 'CKD fight'. Which continues:

You're dodging the question. I didn't say I didn't see any, and that isn't the point. You said "Firm" stances and opinions, and I want you to enumerate exactly what you meant.

DGB, all fluff? Seriously? I goofed around at the start, but I'm playin' serious (by my standards, at least) now.

Mmm semantics the most delicious of fights.

And more talking to DGB. Sawheet.

And we'll finish this adventure.

In my defense, I more wanted him to post it in terms that someone on the street who already knew the game could understand. I was shooting for trying to get him to stop hiding behind fancy vocabulary (not that there's anything wrong with it in principle- it just seemed like he was being sesquipidalian for its own sake). I did not honestly expect him to explain out the entire game.

So, another 'lol irony joke' framed in... nothing. Explaining the game to the outside just led us down eye-melt alley and that is not awesome.
...
4.) Even better is the 'random' list of people for Chevre that points at a CKD partner.
--- Note: see with all the timid nibbles his vote is still firmly on Cyberbob. YEEAAA BOI

You'll get more about others later but seriously.

He refers to CKD being a "random" player gorrad wanted chevre to talk about, when in reality Gorrad gave an actual reason for why he said ckd's name (Because no one had really talked about CKD at that point).

Rather than go through and see if ckd was talked about elsewhere Spyre X looks to see if there was another reason Gorrad could have brought up CKD. He assumes they are a scum pair. SpyrE X paints that the 2 of them are scum together

here are the other times Spyre X mentions CKD:

Ohh, and of course I didn't bring it up:

I'm toying around with the idea of a dutch-gorrad connection but it seems too sloppy so I can't bite on it.

If Gorrad flipped scum and I was a confused vig I'd sure put a bullet through CKD though.

If I had to wager a second at the moment it'd be xaxle.

Others are a function of some flips

and I dont want to spoil that until the time (

except CKD

, like I said)

There's a few others that I want more from.

All of this is exceptionally secondary to lynching Gorrad and DGB you're starting to be that girl and I dont like it.

And yet you're the one who repeats what I say in a mocking tone to make me look stupid then continue to insinuate it's scummy without any actual explanation for it.

Tell me, which is scummier: Me acknowledging what DGB's doing in a quick, quiet way, or you announcing to the world what the play is. Tell me exactly what my motive as scum would be to make my last post. Because if you're scum with Chevre, it would be in your best interest to make sure Chevre knows it's a claim-wagon.

Because a CLAIM WAGON FOR THE SAKE OF A CLAIM IS FFFFFFFF

Ohh look its a 'scummy' VT that's never going to be a night kill.

Well done gents.

I only have to mock because, like I said, its like going down the old school checklist. I dont need diagrams or fancy words to explain why claiming scum, fluffin' it up and wagon for claim not wagon for death aren't tech moves.
----

And color me awesome because while I see a CKD-Gorrad connection why we gotta fight the machine every step of the way and do CKD first?

@Kor:

From the very beginning the 'case' was there. I -really- didn't think it was something that needed to be laid out point by point. And the early posts before I had to get all WORDS pretty clearly show what I was talking about.

And, yes, I AM looking ahead not to make Gorrad scum 'with other people' but to show my thought process when

gorrad flips scum

. Because spearheading a lynch like this if I am right is a death warrant. Which is fine.

And, some of the 'others' I am talking about should be clear to at least a few people (and crystal clear with the 'flips' I'm talking about) but, again, I am not trying to catch ALL the chickens right now just Gorrad related ones.

And, yes, I have spent a lot of energy on this and, frankly, the fact it took a bad wagon all the way to claim for anyone BUT GORRAD HIMSELF to pay attention to it sure doesn't spark that lovin' feelin of doing it again.

And, CKD is cart before the horse to a degree.

Lynchable on his own? Sure (60/40). A much, much better lynch after a Gorrad scum flip? Hot damn yes (80/20)

.

Gorrad for Rope-President 2011'

The last 2 quotes came at times where a wagons was getting going on CKD. SpyreX never really goes into detail of why CKD is scummy. He just agrees with the wagon on ckd somewhat

In general spy says ckd is partnered to gorrad for earlier logic he never looked into. Seems to believe CKD is scum or at least agrees with the wagon on CKD but never goes into as much detail everyone else is looking at or says what 60 he agrees with. He wants gorrad first and won't go at ckd without it. Is that 20% more that important? If you look at day 2 spyreX never really goes back to CKD, he is all dutch all the way. SpyreX doesn't mention ckd again until after CKD is already dead. All quotes I gave here were from day 1 and CKD doesn't mention CKD during day 2. It seems that Spyre X thought ckd was scum but never went after ckd directly at all. He just used ckd as evidence on . It is highly possible SpyreX had alteirior reasons for linking ckd and gorrad and reasons not to go after CKD. So SpyreX makes for a likly ckd buddy.

What did you think of CKD's earlier play SpyreX? what did you think was scummy and what did you think wasn't? Any opinions related to ckd and dutch and day 2, now?

[PokerFace]

In your recent posts dutch you have gone from lynch me, to you have no clue, and then back to lynch me and you want spyreX to go at deadline. The you have no clue part kinda sticks out. If you really want me dead you should have spent some time on it and or catchup on everything. Anything you want to say about all this?

I am at work I'll get caught up on all this tonight. Note I said earlier that I'd be willing to lynch inhim at deadline and since he hasn't done anything since then I still see reason to do it. Though I am wondering if we should wait for a replacement to come in and claim and or if there will even be a replacement. You guys think its worth it or should we lynch him and save Khan the trouble?

P-edit: huh? what big suspicions you got on me Korlash, either its in what i ain't read or you ain't said it yet

[PokerFace]

I don't remember doing 1, unless you can refresh my memory. The closest I got was that I was saying it was going to be guesswork (which it still is, btw). I wasn't trying to rule out reading Xtoxm, I was just stating a fact. Xtoxm, in my opinion, did not give the town enough to work on. He dropped the ball in this game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2865684
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2865692
You saying it was guesswork is what I meant by 1. I used different words to describe it but it still seems that you weren't sure at all where he could have went. Then you figured it was most likly Spy or DGB. Decided it was Spy at a time where everyone was starting to wagon him. And now you seem somewhat convinced he is more likly town than scum. It all seems confusing to me. Which makes me wonder if you were setting up a Spy bus and or generally coasting and agreeing with everyone else at the time/trying to rally everyone else at the time to lynch off spy for you. Can you tell me why you think he is town now? Also even though its guesswork in your mind, do you have a guess at were xtoxm went?

_________

As much as I would love to just agree with you and grab the wiffle bats, *in a Mitch Hedberg accent* that just wouldn't be my style... So let's see what a point-counterpoint debate nets us.

I think your first sentence says it all. He labeled CKD as scum based almost entirely as being scum with Gorrad. Looking at the way he pressed Gorrad, regardless of his alignment it clearly reaks of something personal. Whether that is some form of vengeance, an ego thing, or a lifestyle change I can't say for sure. But if it ever came down to a Gorrad v. his number two, three, eight, goat, etc... He would logically push for Gorrad fist. And once Gorrad fliped town, anyone he primarily suspected as his partner would logically fall down a peg or three...

what kind of ulterior motives are you talking about? Also, did you miss a word or two on the "He just used ckd as evidence on -blank-"? seems like you were going somewhere and the record skipped, so to speak...

I meant to say Gorrad at that blank part you mentioned. Not sure why that word ddn't get put there. Thought faster than I typed perhaps. Though given what you first say and:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2924606

you seem to disagree with me or think the conection between Spy and CKD is a little different. Care to enlighten me on what aspect you see different or review how you believe them too be connected. If you already said it elsewhere then point me too it.

You actions of slightly suspecting me kinda remind me of clerks where you had some comments on suspecting me back then even when I was practically confirmed town. I had forgotten or overlooked those moments in my head until now because you never voted me back then. You were suspicious and yet I was almost confirmed. Your actions were confusing back then, but we were both town there so perhaps they same can be said here. And perhaps those same comments can be applied to explain what you said about antihero earlier. hmm. I have lost some skill at reading you given your hiatius either way

_______

CKD's early play was non existant. He was hiding in quotes AND not much else. I'll admit the D2 Chevre-save is a bit surprising but overal I wasn't happy.

Dutch still needs rope. D2 Dutch jumped to the forefront in my mind and although I can feel the :rolleyessmily:'s through spacetime CKD would have been my second. But, yes, there was quite the margin because I wanted and STILL want Dutch to get rope.

That doesn't sound like you had lot of reason to make ckd your second. I was kinda expecting you to make a big deal out of him in response to me but it appears you are actually being more in line with what you said earlier. I feel less inclined to lynch you for ckd connections now. Given all the voting analysis you went through and how much CKD voted dutch and how ckd treated dutch, has your opinion of dutch changed any? Or do you believe the number of times Dutch voted townies (gorrad, werewolf) outweighs that?

Also in a couple of your counts you have CKD listed as not voting and voting werewolf at the same time. I don't know if that was Khan's mistake or yours there but if it matters in your analysis you should know about it. I've never done VCA like you or DGB have done with assigning numbers to wagons and all as I don't get how you decide which wagons are worth more or less. So I can't say I fully understand some of what you two put forth, though it is odd you guys got different values for me and dutch.

Looking at the wagons we got going I really don't get the cyberbob votes or the hate a bunch of people have been mentioning. His attitude and voting seem to be the cause of it but when I look at him and CKD, it doesn't click in my head as scum buds interacting. Red could still be scum given what I said earlier but I'm not more inclined to lynch him over inhim. My read on Spye Scum has changed some and I kinda want to know how he wants to respond to me here. Tell me Spy do you think I am scum?

I think inhim is scum and if he is still reading this and allowed to post I'd love for him to claim. As that is unlikly I'm not sure I want to hold the game up but I definatly don't want a 'no lynch' to happen. Khan's rules actually don't say if top voter is lynched at deadline or if no majority forces a no lynch at deadline (or I missed the clarification)

@Kublai Khan
Can I get a rules clarification? At deadline if there is no majority, will there be a no lynch or will the one with the most votes go down?

As I don't want to risk the former, think inhim is scum, think him being replaced isn't going to change enough and would likly be a waste of the replacements time...

Unvote, Vote: inhimshallbe

that is not the hammer, he still needs one more if I am counting right, so if you think waiting is still needed it can be done or someone else can finish him off

[PokerFace]

I'll read what korlash said and respond to it tomorrow. Something I do want a general idea on though. "What is the avg or number of mafia you'd expect to have in a 20 person setup?" I am wondering if today might be lylo or mylo

[PokerFace]

Why did you feel the need to bring up this game? Don't take this the wrong way, but you aren't anywhere close to confirmed here, my suspicions of you are not 'slight', at least not to me, and if I remember correctly, you weren't confirmed town until LYLO, a situation we seem far from in this game.

The only thing I get from it is you maybe reassuring yourself on your read on me... trying to ruminate on if my play here matches another known town game of mine...

But that seems odd as you are already fairly sure that spy is the scum between us... Wait, why are you voting inhim? Isn't one of me and spy scum? Less inclined for CKD connections... ironic... when I started this post I was flowers and daisies with my Spy vote... after having to think about it, and having to look at my 1717 again, I have to agree with the sentiment. I don't often have epiphanies, especially in the time span of a single post but when I do I have to change something up, or else it may happen again...

...

Ok where to start, Well how about at the end. I'm all for the "helpful" people come deadlines, but you're too much really. This is twice now you've assured us you'll come in and save us when deadline approaches, and twice now you've voted, while mentioning the hammer, but not actually hammering... seriously, it seems like a copy paste from yesterday. Your 180 on Spy, be it poor timing or coincidence or what have you, doesn't fill me with confidence. This name drop of clerks, which only serves to make me paranoid you're trying to paint a picture of me and you as townies together, traveling around in a van solving crimes with a talking dog named Dante... And last but not least, or maybe it is least I'm not good with numbers, the line "blah blah blah, you didn't vote me then.. etc." For some reason I seem to remember you saying this earlier... Maybe I'm wrong, but you did say it now... so that's at least half the times I thinking of...

Yes I was reasurring myself because well you are acting rather funny with all your wierd bizarre stories. Some aren't even remotly funny and so those ones almost looklike you are putting up a smoke screen or trying to get others just to skim your posts and avoid you and or your banter. And yay I explained how you would be akin to a coasting scum if you were scum. So yay my read on you is wobbly. I expected SpyrEX to do something different earlier and as he did not do it I thouight he may be less likly scum. All this kinda makes you more likly scum. Has my opinion of the 2 of your really changed? Nope I still think one of you is scum and was targeted by xtoxm just I'm not as sure which of you it is

And why did I vote inhim? I thought Kubla would have his rules force a no lynch if there was no majority. No lynches suck so I voted inhim as he was second choice since you or spy weren't gonna die. As far as my vote not being a hammer well other people unvoted or wouldn't vote so I took a different position on the wagon. Point is I was still on those wagons so I kept my word. Bickering over the position is not something either of us could really control at those points

I have to admit Dutch flipping town has slightly lessened my Poker suspicions... I still think he looks pretty bad on his own and greatly await his responses, but I feel like looking elsewhere for the moment. I need to follow up on something when I get back from work... Maybe it will pan out, maybe it won't... but if I were a betting man I would say it would have to be one of those, most definitely.

What? You thought me and him were both scum together? What gave you that idea?

Even if it is

lylo or mylo

what good is worrying about it going to do?

will help us figure out when its time to mass claim and or how important a lynch is in terms of mylo vs lylo. Also I can't remember last time i was in a 21 player setup. I may have never been in one so knowledge can be useful for those reasons too.

I know why Red is scummy but can someone explain to me why cyberbob is scummy? Looking at how he and CKD interacted doesn't looklike they are on same side at all to me. I don't get how DGB assigns certain numbers to each wagon so maybe she can explain what makes 1 wagon worth more points than the others? Is it the timing of the wagons and or what known scums (CKD) are already on the wagon? Yes I admit to being a bit ignorant of this Vote Analysis form of scum hunting and would like to know how it works.

I'm going to take some time to think and see where my vote needs to be going.

[PokerFace]

You're surprised I'm not funny? When have I ever been funny? why is that suspicious to you? Couldn't I put up a smokescreen and be funny at the same- ha ha ha... yeah I couldn't keep it straight either... Let me put it this way, do you actually think I act differently (at least when it comes to not being funny) in accordance to my role?

You used to be funny when we played before your hiatus. Let's put it this way. Are you having fun making these bizzarro stories in your posts? If no one is laughing then I can't see how you are having fun. Seems more like you are waisting everyones time with smoke and mirrors. And I think you would do that as scum. So yay I guess I'd expect you to be funnier as town or more importantly more relevant with your logic and fun as apposed to making absolute non-sence

Why would you think in a 21 player game we would auto no lynch without a majority? Also, you clearly said you thought Inhim was scum. Why is your reasoning simply "to prevent no lynch"? wouldn't you, I don't know, fall on your reasoning why he was scum? And that's my point. You made sure to make it your "word" you would be on the wagon... I don't see lynching someone as something you should have to sign up for in order to participate, know what I mean?

All mods are different and I had no certainty in the rules on what Red would do. Also look back at how I explained things to you in my last post. The word "Second" was used to describe inhim which meant that yes i thought he was scum and or second on who i wanted to go down. As far as why I gave my word any further I'm not sure. I guess its a trait of my character. Like if I plan to do it I follow through at one point or another. You are right you don't have to signup for that sort of thing but I guess I do it anyway out of me being me

Ok so I followed up on my suspicions and don't see reason not to press it.

Vote: iamausername

He calls Chev obv town day one without any sort of reasoning I could find.

he figures that out day two and pushes what amounts to a forced case on her.

He makes a couple mentions to CKD during this push, but when CKD flips scum he sweeps it under the rug without any effort at all.

when did IAMUser do those two things? I don't see it

________

But I like some of his

KMD

other bullshit.

What bullshit of his do you like? Can you be less general?

________

By the by, are there any other power roles? Does the town only have Hider + RB + Vig? Seems kind of stunted when we know there was an SK and a Mafia Suicide Bomber.

You are forgeting Farside was a Doc. Does that effect how much you think we can narrow things down? If massclaim or other power roles claiming does happen I think Anti should say if his blocking catches any liars after the claiming.

Korlashes most recent post is only post i ain't read yet. My breaks at work need to be longer.

[PokerFace]

@ kublai khan can you fix tags i had where i quote korlash for the third time? I was going to underline that and then changed my mind to bold it but not every tag. I guess it still stands out some though

It is done.

[PokerFace]

The following is a general response to

Korlash

's recent case on Iamm

IAM did link ckd and chevre but that case makes sence as CKD obviously didn't take time to read chevre's long as heck post and yet CKD still BS commented on it. Had chevre flipped scum I can see how that link could have made sence.

As far as IAMUSER's placement of CKD on his day 2 scumlist, CKD was not the only one he did not go in depth into why they were high on the list.

As far as I'm concerned only way IAMMUSER is scum is if Spyre X is also. IAMUSER was the most towny looking player about the time me and you and DGB? were going after SpyreX. If IAMuser was scum and SpyreX wasn't, I think IAMUSER would have put alot of effort into rallying the rest of the players to vote SPYREX as it would have been a very good opertunity from his viewpoint. So IAMUSER being scum and SPYREX not being scum would be ilogical to me.

It should be noted that I am not making a case that SPYREX being scum would garauntee IAMUSER being scum. It would make it 'possible' for IAMUSER to be scum but I don't think its likly atm

__________

@IAMUSER

"in vino veritas" means what? I don't know latin so dumb it down on what you meant there please

As far as cyberbobs comments relating to DGB, DGB has said she would not lynch korlash. And has come out saying just about everyone other than OJWEATHER and you are somewhat scummy and or should be lynched. That includes her suggesting we lynch antihero. She has stated KMD should be lynched the very most and yet has not really given a case on him. What do you think of these points in relation to your case on cyberbob? Also what makes you think DGB is town so strongly?

There have been A couple of things that have caught my eye about cyber bob. I am trying to see if there is logical reason why cyberbob voted gorrad over CKD here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2743979
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2744252

And why Cyber voted CKD here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2745979

when CKD didn't really have anything to do with the highest bidder and wasn't cyber's current number 2 anymore given here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2744375

Would you or cyberbob

like to comment on any of that?

[PokerFace]

@DGB

I'm curious, is Nachomamma8 permanently replacing you for the rest of the game or is he temp replacing you and you'll be back in the game after your vacation?

[PokerFace]

@Korlash

Nessun non capisco... what does that mean?

Iam said why he was linking ckd and chev back then. CKD gave a poor reason for thinking chevre was town. I didn't read that long as heck post, some others didn't and I really doubt ckd read it. I can easily see the logic for it.

SpyreX linking Gorrad to ckd was still poor as he assumed ckd was more so random then never talked about. Assuming that instead of actually looking into why gorrad brought it up is a point against spyreX as it shows possibility of an altieror reasons SpyreX may think ckd is scum ie they are scum together

Iam had ckd in his list as you say and I guess thats a somewhat valid point so if you want to grill him on that then go ahead. As it stands i am still torn on you vs spyreX. Yes I still think one of you is scum but i am less sure which one. And if its mylo as i suspect then i want to be sure

If you did grill him on this some already then link me to it, I'm not 100% aware of things at the moment. Not too awake or sleeping well. I thought I knew why bob was saying DGB wouldn't lynch KMD. I made a possible guess at it earlier as DGB failing to actually push a wagon on KMD time and time again, cyberbob drawing his assumation from that somewhere but apparently i was wrong about that guess.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2956191

The idea of bob, dgb, kmd being scum together would be an explaination but I'm not exactly seeing it.

Korlash, you have stated you have different ideals and or means of linking players. Tell me something korlash name your top 3 to 4 people who you think is scum. Say why and or if you think they are all scum together. Am I correct is assuming IAMUSEr is your top?

________

@RedCoyote

Uhm how did you know in advance spyreX was going to jump out of the game? Also In writing up posts for this game I have often wanted to call Khan by the name Red simply because you are modding the mishmash family fued game. I haven't thought to call you khan yet though. Should at any point I end up writing your name without correcting myself in a sentence that involves rules in the game, I apoligize in advance

________

@Cyberbob

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2958485
Uhm do you actually want us to put you out of your misery? Who do you think is scum?

________

@Fonz

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2963633
Can you link me to the post of red's you are refering to? I'd like to see it as that may help some of my reads in this game. I think I am loosing touch with a few things and hopefully new stuff from you or the other new players can give me a kick in the rear.

[PokerFace]

Iam said why he was linking ckd and chev back then. CKD gave a poor reason for thinking chevre was town. I didn't read that long as heck post, some others didn't and I really doubt ckd read it. I can easily see the logic for it.

I'm sorry, where did Iam say this? And what was CKD's 'poor reason'?

He said that here
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2790587

Post #170: I'm not convinced that CKD read it either. If Chevre turns out to be scum, I'm pretty sure CKD should take a bullet just for this post.

And CKD's poor reasing is post 170

___________

SpyreX linking Gorrad to ckd was still poor as he assumed ckd was more so random then never talked about. Assuming that instead of actually looking into why gorrad brought it up is a point against spyreX as it shows possibility of an altieror reasons SpyreX may think ckd is scum ie they are scum together

I would think the same would apply to Iam with his CKD/Chev linking. granted, I can't seem to fully understand you here, so I'm probably confused as to what you are talking about. What is this in response to?

I am tryinging to say SpyreX linking Gorrad to CKD is not the same as IAM linking Chevre to CKD. SpyreX said Gorrad's notion of CKD had to be random without doing the rereading to see if CKD had been mentioned or not. If we assume SpyreX and CKD are scum together we can rationalize that a reason spyreX would have never done the rereading check could be they are scum together and he really wanted to link ckd and gorrad for that reason.

Some people pressured CKD over whether or not he read that stuff. Gorrad, IAM, and now that I think about I seem to recall inhim might have aswell. But those suspicions kinda got overlooked as Farside, CKD's biggest lynch supporter on day one, point that groups efforts at werewolf.

___________

Iam had ckd in his list as you say and I guess thats a somewhat valid point so if you want to grill him on that then go ahead. As it stands i am still torn on you vs spyreX. Yes I still think one of you is scum but i am less sure which one. And if its mylo as i suspect then i want to be sure
If you did grill him on this some already then link me to it, I'm not 100% aware of things at the moment. Not too awake or sleeping well. I thought I knew why bob was saying DGB wouldn't lynch KMD. I made a possible guess at it earlier as DGB failing to actually push a wagon on KMD time and time again, cyberbob drawing his assumation from that somewhere but apparently i was wrong about that guess.

someone calling a now known scum scum for no real reason is a 'somewhat valid' point?

I know I've been gone for a while but that seems like a bit more then somewhat valid... And for a link just check out 1799, 1806, 1817, etc... It's all good....

Uhm... Not sure where you get that bold part from. I think that got lost in or spawned from confusion somehow because I wasn't implying that. I'll check the post numbers you mention and get back to you on that other part.

___________

The idea of bob, dgb, kmd being scum together would be an explaination but I'm not exactly seeing it.

Korlash, you have stated you have different ideals and or means of linking players. Tell me something korlash name your top 3 to 4 people who you think is scum. Say why and or if you think they are all scum together. Am I correct is assuming IAMUSEr is your top?

That would seem a little too convenient a scum pairing, plus it would contradict your own stated "MYLO" theory, unless you mean to imply there is a fourth unknown that you failed to include.?

It contradicting my mylo theory is part of why I'm not entirly seeing it as I would have no great idea who would be the 4th to round out that group. I don't know if its mylo or if there would be a 4th but still the little too convieant scenario doesn't make 100% sence to me either because it feels that it wouldn't answer everything.

___________

Something was cleared up for me. I mentioned a question earlier posed towards both cyberbob and iamusername earlier.

There have been A couple of things that have caught my eye about cyber bob. I am trying to see if there is logical reason why cyberbob voted gorrad over CKD here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2743979
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2744252

And why Cyber voted CKD here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2745979

when CKD didn't really have anything to do with the highest bidder and wasn't cyber's current number 2 anymore given here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2744375

Would you or cyberbob

like to comment on any of that?

Main reasons I have been against cyberbob's lynch were his interactions with ckd. Fonz kinda answered the ones involving day 1.

The hell? You spend most of your post castigating Chevre, demanding to know why she's still alive, saying you haven't changed your mind on her scumminess one bit and calling her out on a new "priceless moment" - only to unvote and switch to CKD. One of these things is not like the other things.

Unvote, Vote: farside22

OH HAI, CYBERBOB CONVENIENTLY FORGETTING HIS OWN SUSPICIOUS OF CKD TO ATTACK FARSIDE FOR ATTACKING CKD!

Any town credit he may have got for attacking ckd early obviously disappears as of this post.

Can someone give me their take on cyberbob and ckd during day 2?

[PokerFace]

so fate's only reason for thinking I am scum is katsuki?

[PokerFace]

Calling for a massclaim is not "rolefishing".

And while we're on that subject, everyone else completely ignored the suggestion when RC brought it up, but I still think it's a pretty good idea. What does everyone else think?

I didn't ignore it

Even if it is

lylo or mylo

what good is worrying about it going to do?

will help us figure out when its time to mass claim and or how important a lynch is in terms of mylo vs lylo. Also I can't remember last time i was in a 21 player setup. I may have never been in one so knowledge can be useful for those reasons too.

By the by, are there any other power roles? Does the town only have Hider + RB + Vig? Seems kind of stunted when we know there was an SK and a Mafia Suicide Bomber.

You are forgeting Farside was a Doc. Does that effect how much you think we can narrow things down? If massclaim or other power roles claiming does happen I think Anti should say if his blocking catches any liars after the claiming.

Korlashes most recent post is only post i ain't read yet. My breaks at work need to be longer.

I doubt we will gain alot from it but if you disagree or think its for the best, I may be down

[PokerFace]

^Nothing of immediate importance I can think of atm

[PokerFace]

ok, red why do you support mass claim at this point in the game?

[PokerFace]

Yay I'm still here. Sorry to have fallen behind I'll catch up and help best I can before the deadline

[PokerFace]

Did alot thinking. I have changed my mind on red some. He says he has town reads on me, Run/OJ/weather/star, Fonz, and I think Iam. Point is he is ruling people out and that leads me to believe he isn't trying to plan ahead. He isn't trying to keep his lynching options open to everyone. Scum want to be able to lynch everyone eventually so I'm not up for getting rid of Red

Duth one was town. Weather went after me while I was going after dutch. At that time I thought to my self weather was obv town and he had no reason to go after me unless he was scum with dutch. Dutch was town so yay thats not possible. I don't know how Weather found me scummy back then but they must of been reasons he actually believed in or I don't think he would have wasted his time with me. So yay star is town because she replaced town

Iam is town for his overall play

Fonz is town due to reasoning why Antihero claimed earlier.

OH LOOK AT THIS LINK:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p2794068

Yos scum. I gambited to clear a town read of mine, but he as a mafia FRAMER who had Framed that town read,

knew I was lying and claimed in order to lynch me and confirm himself.

Same. Fucking. Song and dance here.

"??? I scumRBd him last night? Whats this town fakeclaim gambit?"
Antihero votes Xtomz.

Antiher was scummy before this, and continued to be scummy.

????
ANTIHERO IS SCUM RB WHAT DO YA KNOW.

Unvote:
Vote: Fonz

Here's the problem with this logic. Who was Yos scum with? 1 other person. If you are in a large game and you are scum with only 1 other person its pretty safe to say there is another scum group in the game. Yos thought you were scum obviously because you gambited and I would have thought you were scum for the same reasons. Scum Yos gets Scum fate from another group lynched. Yay Scum Yos confirmed!! And off the chance you were gambiting town Yos isn't confirmed but not gauranteed scum either so him claiming to get rid of you doesn't hurt himself at all.

Now how does this apply to this game? xalxe was dead before that and was SK. Hmm 2 scum groups and an SK in a normal game? I doubt it. Anti scum claims to know xtoxm is scum. BUT Antiscum has no reason to believe Xtoxm is gambiting and has no reason to believe xtoxm will turn up scum. Antiscum would know xtoxm would flip town.... What will happen when we all stare at Anti hero and see xtoxm was telling the truth? Antiscum day 3.

What Yos did was safe and could have benefited him in everyway as it would get rid of liar and or other scum. What anti did would only help him if Xtoxm was a lying scum and anti scum would have no reason to believe that with an already dead xalxe. Anti is town and your arguement does nothing

Also Fate you asked how we all determined Xtoxm died by hiding with someone? Well let's see how many killings happened day 1. there were 3. going into night the SK is dead so there should be one less kill at night, right? But somehow there is still 3. Likly Vig and Mafia are still alive. Vig made one kill and mafia made the other. so why is there 3? xtoxm must have ran into scum and killed himself while vig and mafia killed the other 2. BTW do you want further proof anti is not scum RB. Ask yourself this. Say you a roleblocker and scum and a hider just claimed, and that hider will likly never get lynched by town. There is no way to get rid of that hider, he is going to be a problem to your group. Is it a good idea to role block the hider and night kill him imediatly all at once during the next night? Hells yay! But Anti obviously didn't do that as that situation would have also ended the night with only 2 kills. There were 3 kills so xtoxm and anti are town by this logic end of story.

With Fonz marked as town, this leaves Spyre/Fate, Korlash, DGB, Cyber, KMD and well me. Duh I know my alignment and I have no reason to lynch myself so that leaves. That leaves Spyre/Fate, Korlash, DGB, Cyber, KMD. If we are in mylo then 4 are scum from the remaining 5. Looks like some pretty awesome odds. Only 1 answer is town and a loss while the rest is an awesome win. WAIT i already have earlier logic that shows only one of Korlash or spyre is scum. So... if the one town is one of those two then the other 3 (KMD, DGB, cyber) are all scum. And it makes sence! Makes sence with there actions with each other and lets not forget DGB has long standing feud with farside and this has been noted in many games so yay that and fact farside was on CKD means farside must die. The vig must have then killed Xalxe, he though xalxe was scum and was right, while xalxe killed werewolf as he was on a quest to kill other scums. When you are SK getting rid of the mafia is always a good descision. And No case suspected cyber bob and got whacked and yabba suspect KMD and was fairly well confirmed. Process of elimination and by just looking at the night kills and even the play of cyber, KMD, and DGB it all makes sence to me! DGB, cyber and KMD all make sence as scum. And if we are in milo then I can't miss since 4 of 5 is scum and 1 town is either spyre or Kor. Should we not be in mylo then 1 of those 3 is town. Cyber may be town due to his day 2 stuff with CKD. DGB may be town given her early day 1 play and she said CKD was scum often earlier. Is there any slight reasoning why KMD may be town..... I can not think of any

Vote: KMD

As it stands I have decided to support massclaim we can do it next day or today if you guys still think there is time. I mentioned earlier that I wanted Fonz to claim LAST should mass claim ever happen but it looks like no one saw that. Still mass claiming can't really put us in a bad position if we are truly close to end milo and lylo as I think we are.

[PokerFace]

I am also confused because the mod's last vote count says KMD has 5 votes. Shouldn't it have been a no lynch since it was only at 5 votes and not 6?

@Kublai Khan
Can I get a rules clarification? At deadline if there is no majority, will there be a no lynch or will the one with the most votes go down?

At deadline, whomever has reached the most votes first will be lynched.

Not sure why Khan's flavor at day start says "two new vanilla" corpses when one is bob scum. When did a goon start counting as vanilla?

[PokerFace]

ahh wait nevermind that last comment its 5:45am and i need to learn to read things all the way

[PokerFace]

I think those were both mod errors by khan, starbuck. Given fonz previously voted nacho/DGB during that day not sure why CKD double voting error occured but he was already revealed as bomber so I don't see him as having any crazy double vote

Howmany scum do you guys think are left and or should mass claim be now? Fonz don't claim your roleblock before others claim

[PokerFace]

I believe iamuser, me, red, and the fonz said we should mass claim today. Fate might have said we should too which would be majority. If you guys want me to go first I will. Fonz should obv go last. We can do popcorn or random or whatever after me if thats what you all want.

still I ain't normally played 21 player normal games so can you tell me the avg number of scum you would expect for this game type?

[PokerFace]

Something to note. This is a bit far in advance but should game and things last that long

V/la June 2-6

[PokerFace]

Did some research and it seems 4 scum is standard. Here is what I think

weathers attack on me when dutch was under pressure combined with dutch actually being town makes starbuck town. Don't see weather/ojanen scum defending a townie from me. Dutch being town pretty much cleared ojanen in my mind. I was scum with ojanen once and she was not one to defend town then

Fonz is cleared by logic i gave at end of last day. if he was scum there would have been 2 deaths at day 3 start. The scum anti would have blocked xtoxm and killed him and then CKD died. But since we had 3 deaths with no case also on the table, Fonz is clear

Ruling that out we got:
If Fate is scum korlash is not (I said why I think this before)
If IAM is scum Fate is too (Why else would he unvote SpyreX when me and korlash went at him?)
Red can be scum with anyone (nothing destroys or locks him as being connected to anyone)
Korlash could only be scum with Red (Korlash and Red sounds like a good gut possibility)

Xtoxm obv went to Fate or Korlash

I think I'd like either a dead fate or a dead korlash and hopefully vig will shoot the other should we lynch wrong that way we get a scum no matter what. I'll pick between the two of them later

[PokerFace]

Well actually all that leaves as possible would be

Fate & Red
IAM & Fate
Red & Korlash

Iam & korlash (then why iam unvote spyre?)

Red & Iam (then why did IAM unvote SpyreX?)

Korlash & Fate (Yay that didn't happen and i said why)

That really narows it down.

if Fate/SpyreX is scum then that clears Korlash and means red or iam needs to die
if Fate is town then its Red and Korlash together

I think I'm going to vote fate, gonna double check one thing though

@Fonz would you expect 4 or 5 scum in this game type?

[PokerFace]

and i fail at tags

@Fonz would you expect 4 or 5 scum in this game type?

[PokerFace]

Yay scum are obv looking for Vig at night.

I have a theory, before night 1 no case was first person to suggest there was a vig and that said vig should axe werewolf. Low and behold werewolf dies night 1. No case dies night 2

are you SERIOUSLY arguing that the mafia doesn't already know not to kill werewolf?

Vigs.

okay, i don't think i understand your point. a vig should absolutely shoot werewolf. what i said does nothing to decrease the likelihood of that.

And well fonz is a role blocker. If fonz stops a kill did he stop the vidge or scum? We don't know. And if he stops vidge can Fonz save Scum from vidge? logically. So scum could possibly use fonz to their advantage

as far as that 8 people voting a townie argument I have no response. It obviously happened given the reveal of those players. Why scum didn't jump on and be early votes I have no clue. Either the group loves to lurk, didn't care, have day talk and planed that (doubt it) or were too busy in real life or with other things.

As far as my arguments that defended cyberbob yay I made a mistake there. I did start to suspect bob and thought someone would give a good argument against why I thought bob was town but I believe only Red attempted to do that

Can someone give me their take on cyberbob and ckd during day 2?

Their awkward interactions can go both ways. Cyberbob changes his vote a lot. I don't know if this is common practice for him or not, but he went through this strange period during D2 where he was explaining an Antihero vote to him, then he called him out for having a post that was poorly structured soon thereafter. It was weird. I think ckd was his main suspect, but he acted like he wanted someone else to give him a reason for it not to be, I guess

While Fate agreed with my belief cyberbob was town

In other news Cyber looks at a situation of two PRs claiming or whatever,

and goes out of his way to call CKD out on his scummy ass reaction.

Cyber definitely isn't scum with CKD. I don't see him bussing in the middle of a clusterfuck claimstorm.

As far as my habbits to jump on alot of wagons near the end. Yes I had suspicions on those people that i said at those times. Also pre-inhim's death I believe a no-lynch would happen if there was no majority. No lynch's suck!

only lynch after learning that fact was KMD's and well I gave my logic for picking KMD over dgb and cyberbob. logic was wrong which sucked. what can I say? This may be the second game I defended scum as town and got lynched for it. I can't recall a time I ever defended one of my scum buddies. I think all I've ever done with them is said I had no read on my buddies or tried to not even acknowledge them. As a player that always searching for connections as town, I avoid them as scum and disguise my read so I can bus them if necessary. Though I prefer to bus them when i actually have a plan to make their death greatly benefitial to my side.

I think thats all I got as far as a defence goes

[PokerFace]

I have skimmed through part of this page so far.

Saw IAMUser claim and ask for me to claim

Because I don't want to hold things up I'll claim now

Vanilla townie. yep most boring role there is next to survivor

As things stand i'm leaning toward the Red Fate scum pairing and as Fate has claimed, Red its your turn. If Red already went and I missed it in my skim, Fonz can pick between Star and Korlash on who goes next

[PokerFace]

Alot of posting and I have been fairly busy only been able to skim but I will post this since even fonz lost track

Claim list for easy reference:

Fate = Vanilla
Poker = Vanilla
Star buck = Vanilla
Red Coyote = Vanilla
Iamuser = 2shot cop
Fonz = Roleblocker
Korlash = ????

So yay Korlash has to claim still

[PokerFace]

Hmm odd thought just popped into my head. Vig obv killed Bob last night perhaps fonz should withold his block and only say it if it outs scum.

because let's say Fonz reveals he blocked Jim

Now scum know Jim =/= vig

basically we may want to weigh the worth of fonz saying who he blocked and when

[PokerFace]

hmm actually fonz saying who he blocked also stops any vanilla from claiming vig later on. What he says can stop scum from faking later if needed. meh its your call fonz

[PokerFace]

I am still yet to read alot from the last 2 pages but I am curious about something. Given I still only see xtoxm going to spyreX/fate or Korlash I feel I should see if I can get an answer to this even though I have no idea if there is a GF in the setup or not

@Khan, if a hider targets a Godfather does the hider die?

if a hider would live then xtoxm must have gone to fate and fate is scum. If hider would die then I got nothing. Do I think Korlash is a GF? Not particularly, I actually don't think he would be defending me at all if he was scum. In my skim he seems to be defending me or at least refuting IAMuser's arguments on the chevre wagon and how long scum would not ride it.

Speaking of arguments with scum riding wagons CKD and spyreX were going after dutch while Weather was defending dutch before. Assume Fate/spyreX are scum with CKD and we got possibility Starbuck is scum and didn't want to jump on dutch with them. This would make my previous reasons for thinking she is town, false

I'll catch up on things tonight

[PokerFace]

your right I don't see godfather on first page either. guess I can forget I brought it up.

You are only scum if iam is scum too

Also I saw this on first page:

Hider: At night, choose a player to hide with. You will only die if they die.

............................................________
....................................,.-‘”...................``~.,
.............................,.-”...................................“-.,
.........................,/...............................................”:,
.....................,?......................................................\,
.................../...........................................................,}
................./......................................................,:`^`..}
.............../...................................................,:”........./
..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../
............./__.(.....“~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_....”~,_........“~,_....................,:`........_/
..........{.._$;_......”=,_.......“-,_.......,.-~-,},.~”;/....}
...........((.....*~_.......”=-._......“;,,./`..../”............../
...,,,___.\`~,......“~.,....................`.....}............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-”
............/.`~,......`-...............................\....../\
.............\`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....\,__
,,_..........}.>-._\...................................|..............`=~-,
.....`=~-,_\_......`\,.................................\
...................`=~-,,.\,...............................\
................................`:,,...........................`\..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_\..........._,-%.......`\
...................................,<`.._|_,-&``................`\

I don't know if xtoxm really could investigate or only thought he could since that was on first page. he probably hid with no case or CKD that night if thats the case. No case was kinda going after xtoxm near start of day 2 so maybe that was it the entire time. xtoxm may have only thought he could investigate just like everyone else thought he could. ugh well i'll figure something out and find scum when i get chance to catch up later

[PokerFace]

Yay I am gonna need surgery to remove the egg off my face after this game. This will be second time not carfully reading and remembering the front page of a game has made me look dumb

IAM's claim coupled with DGB = town, Korlash = town and Korlashes overall play leads me to believe IAM and Korlash are both town. IAM would of had to think up the idea to make that claim a long time ago given circumstances and I don't see that being likly.

Fonz is def still town roleblocker. 2-3 of Red, Fate, Star is scum and I can figure out which is most likly tonight

[PokerFace]

As the rise rises, you quickly gather in the town square and count how many are left. You are down from 16 to 13.

Soberly, you identify the dead...

The first is Xtoxm. He tried to avoid the violence that infested the town, but it caught up with him.

The second is curiouskarmadog. The mild-mannered man manifests as a mafioso.

The third is nocase. He was brash. He was rude. He was a townie.

Xtoxm, a

Hider

, was killed on Night 2.
curiouskarmadog, a

Mafia Suicide Bomber

, was killed on Night 2.
nocase, a

Vanilla Townie

, was killed on Night 2.
--

Role Name:

Hider

Active Abilities:

• Hider: At night, choose a player to hide with. You will only die if they die.
  
  • Weak: You die when you target any player with a "dangerous" win condition.

Passive Abilities:

• None

Groups:

• None

Victory Condition:

• You win when all players with a "Dangerous" win condition have been removed from the game.

And I guess I ain't so dumb after all. still with no GF on first page IAM and Korlash likly both town. Xtoxm could have gone to spyreX but when i think about what no case did during that day I think he is possible too so I am no longer going to push that angle.

[PokerFace]

Godfather: If investigated by a Cop, the result always be "Not Dangerous" (unless the ability is blocked, etc.). If investigated by a Gunsmith, the result will always be "No Result"

note to self, never ever post while on the clock at work again. that is only excuse i can give for idiocy today.

I wait to see if Khan answers my question or not just out of curiosity

[PokerFace]

and it did fonz

I am caught up but I'm still deciding between Red, fate and star.

Why did you not claim earlier iamuser?

[PokerFace]

No fate. Xtoxm was Weak Hider and could clear and condemn others thanks to the weak part.

[PokerFace]

I checked my wiki I think I got them all here:

Some Form of Mafia
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5741
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7995
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10791
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10807
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8144
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8926
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11272
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=14068
http://67.222.17.61/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9537
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 24&t=14544

This one I was a cult leader that could win with any faction but I didn't read part about win with any faction so I certainly thought I was scum. And I did win with the mafia so yay
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 24&t=16626

games played as mr rogers
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 24&t=16681

[PokerFace]

Fate the modifier weak was given with Xtoxm's flip go back and see khans post and or when i backtracked and realized posting while preocupied with job was dumb

[PokerFace]

he claims to be 2 shot only cop. he used shot 1 on night 1 and shot 2 on night 3. he doesn't have any more

[PokerFace]

I like to fake claim alot and I've done it as both alignments and gotten away with it sometimes. Claiming as town has always been harder then fake claiming as scum though. I actually didn't see any issue with him no investigating night 2 when 2 shot. The reason I expected to hear for that was he was not sure who to check or he figured him and his targets would live longer and there wouldn't be a problem. Why he didn't claim after checking Korlash though I Figured was same reasons Red figured.

Him switching his claim to odd is actually something I am leaning toward believing. Now why am I doing that? If username was scum why didn't he claim vanilla or 3 shot or 4 shot? He could have easily said he checked no case and then cyberbob on nights 2 and 4. He picked a specific number of 2 so that goes in line with the mentality I would expect from someone running this gambit and not thinking there would be an issue with not investigating back to back.

His pick of DGB and Korlash make sence with when he suspected them. I'm willing to believe he is an odd cop that tried to screw with scum and it didn't work. Also he unvoted me. I don't think he would have even bothered with that as scum. I think he would have tried to ignore it or tried to keep going at me and try to get vengence on me for foiling his scum's ability to get the vig

Something that caught my eye:

I don't think any of this changes anything. We need to put the burden on the scum to make sense of this. The worst case scenario here is lynching username, who flips Cop, and having Korlash be shot overnight. That would be the worst thing we could do.

Hell, it'd be better to lynch Korlash if only because username could still be scum if Korlash flips town.

I don't want to do either of these things though. Everyone knows what I want to do. I'm growing increasingly frustrated over the fact that everyone except me and Fate are so hesitant to act. It tells me that my Fatetown read is right on the money and it also tells me that the remaining scum are lying in wait, praying that the Starbuck wagon will somehow be derailed.

Huh? What? Can you run that underlined part by me that doesn't make sence. Where would that get us and do you suspect Korlash?

something else Fonz is not voting IAM and Korlash unvoted him. Korlash is obv town, if he was scum going after IAM I see no reason he would let up now. Fonz well i already thought he was town but if he were scum I would have expected him to latch onto this and start going at IAM like a rabbid wolf. He brought up some issues with it first so he could have easy went after IAM as scum with no drawbacks.

2 to 3 of red, star, Fate I am still thinking. What made me think Star/weather was town no longer holds water since both CKD and cyber bob who supported dutch lynches are dead and scum. Being against that lynch and attacking me earns no town cred. I can understand Star being discouraged to read all pages of this long game but saying this:

I have no problem with the lynch being on me if that's what the town decides is the best action.

I know I really haven't brought anything to the table. It's been awhile since I've replaced in to a game longer than 20-30 pages.

Is completly defeatist and scummy. If she was town I would not have suspected the go ahead and kill me part. She must have known how long the game was when she agreed to replace. I would expect her as ton to say cut me some slack and keep trying the just kill me know part goes directly against the idea of playing to win as town while it is still able to gain extra sympathy as scum. Town her replacing in would likly not have said it

Vote: Starbuck

Also @IAM. I'll save you some trouble. There is 1 instance of me making a dumb move as scum and costing my scum team the game. Read the black fang game. I was scum, predicted every player's role had the game completly won but I didn't cast the vote that would have won me the game. Why? Greed and indifference! I got gready and wanted to see and explosion. I wanted to trick Ghost writer into using his suicide bomb on empking so they would both die and I would win my best scum. I wanted more out of that game game with an explosion and awesome win but I didn't put in the effort with my greed. I wanted it but didn't do enough and ultimatly backfired. I should have just nked the power role GW a long time ago. Got Phate or I believe it was "grimwall" lynched instead as they both had connections to scum. I purposely went the harder route and paid for it Shit happens. Does that mean I was sabatoging or that I would be greedy like that here? You decide but generally I plan to never be that dumb ever again.

@Khan can you prod starbuck its been 3 days

[PokerFace]

Huh? Not sure what I did to get everyone but Fonz to think well of me but whatever. Kinda wondering if Kats day 1 vote is only reason Fonz suspects me or if theres more to it than that.

Is there other stuff Fonz?

I am wondering if I missed a detail somewhere

@Red Coyote

The next sentence basically says you don't want to do it. Thats not all I am asking. What were you even trying to say? It sounded like you wanted us to lynch Korlash to test Iam and I don't see how that would have really proved IAM

@Starbuck

Well if Khan was so gracious to replace in for you, don't you think you should try to play well here?

@Fate

IIRC username did show some suspicion toward Korlash over his spyreX vote and comments during day 3. He abandoned the wagon me and Kor were with him on spyreX at that time. IAMuser checking korlash after all that on night 3, makes sence to me

[PokerFace]

Hey Red Coyote will you please stop talking about who may and may not be vig. This isn't AiTP but if it was you would be doing a terrible job. You don't talk about or say anything that hints at who is king there in the slightest so I don't think you should be saying anything like that in terms of who is vig

he tries to accuse the Bob wagon of being a 'policy lynch' which wasn't true

I will say, in complete honesty, that I saw Cyber as town throughout the majority of this game. The only point that I ever really changed that was yesterday when I was feeling particularly down thanks to the unsuccessful predictions I had consistently had up until that point.

I wanted to strongly emphasize that I was completely doing a 180 on Cyber mostly because of DGB's scumhunting

.

Something is not sitting right with me here. Can't quite put my finger on it but i'm gonna try. Why would you

want to emphasize

. This comes off as though you are are trying to convince us of your alignment as apposed to explain your opinion about cyberbob. Why didn't you say something a kin to "And well i began to think otherwise or pull a 180 on my cyberbob read as a result of DGB's scumhunting." I think scum would be more likly to use the words you used here

@Red Coyote

Aside from how I have voted in this game being "wrong and often" as DGB pointed out in analysis, are there other reasons you would be willing to discuss a lynch on me? You, me, and even Fate at one point as well were all wrong about cyberbob so unless you see some difference in what we said, I am not sure why you are so pro lynch me

I look through things and I'm very convinced all scum is in Red, Fate, Star. But I must admit I am having some paranoia issues with starbuck at the moment as a result of what Red has been saying. As korlash has pointed out to some degree, some of red's suspicions of Star carry very little weight. I am starting to think Red Coyote is grasping at straws with some of the weak reasons why he wants Star gone but I am uncertain why he would be grasping at such straws unless he's gone into scum panic mode

[PokerFace]

...Starbuck is a better lynch than Fate.

I am not so sure

Secondly, in DGB's last scumputer report, you were ranked third behind Cyberbob and username. Cyber flipped scum. username is not going to be lynched today. That means you're up to bat. I'm more than willing to put a heaping amount of stock in these results given DGB's town flip and Cyber's scum flip.

Yay i mentioned I haven't been batting 1000 votewise. I still don't get how anyone comes up with certain numbers being attached to certain lynches in this game. Someone really needs to explain that to me either now or when the game is over and how efectivly it all applies to someone's alignment. We both agree IAMuser is town but by the analysis he would be scum. So yay I have many reasons for disagreeing with the validity of this type of scum hunting.

If i could try a korlash impersonation, first voting was good and no its bad first 7 is good and now 7 is bad. Crap I don't know how to play this game

Thirdly

, I don't agree with username/Fonz/Korlash in the sense that you should be given any town points for your wanting to stop Fonz from claiming his results prematurely. This wasn't some sort of radical conclusion. I mean, it's debatable really. Both claiming and not claiming will help us, so it's not like you're bringing anything special to the table here.

This is not a reason to vote me. This is just you thinking differently than others about reasons not to vote me. So you can't count it as third or any number if you consider my actions at that time to be nuetral. Fankly I don't care about points or how peeps look at me. "If she thought it was scummy, she wouldn't do it, no?" I think only scum care about how they look and I don't care. Yes i did list both options of fonz giving info or not. I gave both options because I wanted to see what others thought and who agreed with which idea. I figure scum would want fonz to talk more than be quiet. IIRC you wanted fonz to say his choice.

why did you want that again?

Fourthly

THIRDLY, we had the Chevre mislynch wagon on D1. There was a lot of town players on that wagon, and your slot is the only unrevealed name on there. I absolutely hated that Kat vote when she made it, and I still hate it two months after the fact (or however long it's been, I don't feel like looking).

Yay I don't think Kat was really playing this game or even keeping up. Given all numbers Korlash gave its logical to think there was a scum group that might not have anyone on that lynch.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what he's doing since I have put Fate at L-1.

Nice try. I thought this slot was town since long before you got here.

Funny I recall you jumping on the spyreX wagon with everyone else when xtoxm first died. I think you wanted your buddy to live but went into a save me first mindstate. I think both you and fate are only scum left.

I can't see star being scum with you or Fate and since scum must only exist in you 3 and there can't be 1 scum left, you and fate must both be scum.

Unvote, Vote: Fate

And yes I am prepared to rule out Fate as the vig as spyreX claimed vanilla townie way before the massclaim. Spy is not the type to fake like that a vig when there was no benefit to faking VT as vig at that time Still think we shouldn't be talking about it but if scum didn't see this long ago they are blinder than Ray Charles.

If Korlash and Starbuck want to go at RC before Fate I will gladly join them there. I am willing to kill either of you as I think you 2 are last scum. 3 of us (me, korlash, starbuck) vote Red and bam he is top wagon. Star put your money where your mouth is and show me you really want Red first. I will gladly join you

And yes I realize what I am doing here obviously makes it look like only scum teams left are Star & Me or Fate & Red and guess what I am fine with that fight. I get one of you 2 lynched and they flip scum then I win as other is obv last scum. and if Star gets lynched and flips scum (I am wrong for like the 4 or 5 time this game) then I get mislynched, and I think town can figure out who is last scum among remaining players without me and my bad reading skills

@fonz

I asked what reasons you had for wanted to wagon me before I don't think you covered any reasons I did not address. Or are you trying to get a wagon going on me to see what reactions it brings? If I missed a point you have against me that I did not address point it out. Tell me, who do you think may be my scum partner(s)?

[PokerFace]

I like... I like me.

My wife likes me.

My customers like me. 'Cause I'm the real article buddy. What you see is what you get. I could be a cold-hearted cynic like you... but I don't like to hurt people's feelings.

I too like an RC lynch above Fate, slightly that is. But sadly I don't see that lynch happening without Iam changing his mind.

What!? I thought we had something

[PokerFace]

Why the hell would you shoot at the fonz?

Also explain all your other kill choices, NOW. Because I don't believe they add up with your play

[PokerFace]

Well that was ridiculous day

Star didn't counter Red so red must be responsible for other kills. I am kinda doubting there would be 2 sk's and one be investigation imune. Red is likly vig which leaves only star. I guess game is over

Something is still bothering me. How did we get end of game with this many power roles still alive? I am kinda surprise scum didn't kill them earlier. What were they thinking?

Hey Red did you shoot xalxe night one or did the mafia hit him?

[PokerFace]

Refers to Choose Carefully Mafia, when I constructed a plan that guaranteed a town win. Zazie nonetheless railed at me because it involved lynching

her

. Bear in mind, I've volunteered to be vigged here.

You know that we only 'fail' if Iamausername is the scum, right?

Yay i remember that plan. when you came up with it it gaurnteed you were town and that socio was only scum left. Which in turn meant zazie was town and sadly in order for me to prove myself town and socio last scum so we could win on last day was I had to vote to lynch zazie. Lynching town for the win as town. I would have never believed it could happen if it wasn't for choose carefully

I don't entirly understand your plan this time Fonz but since red is likly town vig, you are likly town blocker , and iam is likly town gambiting cop, I think we are good already

[PokerFace]

If it isn't over then instead of complaining you should be saying who you think is really scum and why so we can we tomorrow

[PokerFace]

...so we can win* tomorrow

[PokerFace]

yay what fonz is doing pretty much proves he is town. This is pretty much deja vu

3 person mafia group with 2 sks in a normal feels off. Red is clear

I would never conscede as any alignment, I simply think town has already won and if they haven't, it must be Iam

I suppose Fate and iam could have gone into yesterday planing to get me lynched, but then why did IAM hesitate on me and go after Fate especially when he had both RC's and Fonz's support against me? Only thing that could explain that was perhaps fate had issues with the plan or there was no plan things just fell into place quite wierdly as Fate loves to buss and distance. hmm that second one seems possible, meh i still think game is over

[PokerFace]

Wait a sec...

scum can't win!

if RC is town and username is scum and I get lynched, then RC and iam cross kill during the night and its a draw!

[PokerFace]

wait shit

if Red kills fonz

iam is scum and kills Red

then only me and iam are alive and town loose

I think Red may have to hold his fire fonz because if he kills anyone then there won't be a tomorrow

[PokerFace]

My poor Fonzarelli, please don't torture yourself any longer with this.

Just make sure you put me out of my misery if Starbuck is just an asshole and not scum, mmmkay?

Wait a sec...

scum can't win!

if RC is town and username is scum and I get lynched, then RC and iam cross kill during the night and its a draw!

If username is scum, game will end overnight. RC will kill me, username will kill RC, leaving you and username.

Again. Red and I are betting the game on Iamausername being town. We are comfortable with this.

Why bet on anything

Red should kill (me or iam) and you should block (iam or me)

I know fonz is town and Red should know that. I trust fonz and red better than iam and perfer this

[PokerFace]

Yay I trust fonz and would prefer Red kill me and Fonz block iam.

Red was cleared by iam and there must be a vig at this point and there must be some other killed than red since there was kill last night. Red is clered and must be vig

Fact fonz blocked read to stop and kill and that there still was a kill. This clears fonz

Yay I prefer Red shoot me and fonz block iam

[PokerFace]

very fact Fonz want you to kill him and has come up with another plan like this clears him in my book. Scum fonz would in no way tell you to kill him even if he could block you. Scum fonz would not purposly back himself into a corner like this. Red you need to read choose carefully mafia and shoot IAM for the win if Star flips town.

[PokerFace]

this day has taught me fonz is obv town and so is red. if there is a tomorrow then it must be IAM. Red needs to kill one of us and fonz needs to block the other for a garanteed town win

[PokerFace]

Fact fonz blocked read to stop and kill and that there still was a kill. This clears fonz

Except that if I were a scum rb who can both kill and rb, i could just not kill to frame Iam.

Poker's behaviour here suggests he is BP scum, who wants to leave open the 'Fonz is scum' door tomorrow. Because if that's the case, Red's kill will fail, and his first suspicion will be of me, because I won't be able to prove I DIDN'T shoot him.

when did I ever suspect you or antiihero of being scum? I'd be dumb as hell to try that.

if you think I am bulletproof scum then have red kill iam and you block me then

[PokerFace]

Fonz is more likly town than IAM especially since he came up with this plan. Scum fonz would not give town a plan that would out himself and cause his faction too loose

if Star flips town it must be me or iam. Red you need to kill one of us and lynch the other tomorrow because fonz ain't dumb scum

[PokerFace]

No, PF, because then if Fonz is scum he can just shoot me. That doesn't work. The town has to bet the farm on either you or username being town, and, despite your hammer, username's overall game seems much more likely to be town to me. Especially his claim which seems pretty darn genuine.

Fonz isn't scum. I'd rather you bet the farm on him than iam

[PokerFace]

but seriously, whatever you need to do. If you can't be confident in my towniness without killing me, then kill me.

Poker, the problem is if I try to WIFOM out of being killed now, then this whole business will have made sense for scum. It's be great if RC trusted me, but he doesn't and isn't going to. Therefore, the best I can do is to concoct a situation in which his fears are assuaged, and hope I guess right between you and username.

I believe I said before I didn't like lynching town to beat scum in choose carefully but I did it since it garanteed a win. I don't think you are scum and if Red still suspects you after all that has happened today then he is dumb

I would rather you didn't kill fonz, red

[PokerFace]

when did I ever suspect you or antiihero of being scum? I'd be dumb as hell to try that.

Explain what other option you would feasibly have, when the plan as constructed ensures your death tomorrow if you're scum. You said yourself, you never give up as any alignment. Is there anything else more likely to result in your survival than this?

Your point is valid but chance of me pulling that off as scum would be crazy low given I didn't think you were scum all game and don't think you are scum now. I'd have to bullshit a damn fine case on you and I am not that good as scum

[PokerFace]

if Star flips town it must be me or iam. Red you need to kill one of us and lynch the other tomorrow because fonz ain't dumb scum

Okay, dude, you need to sit down and look at the scenario again. Your fingers are moving quicker than your brain here. Me and Fonz can't go to the end together. Even if I thought Fonz was for sure town, I'd still have to pick one between you two to take the end with us both.

Now, we can kill Fonz AND one of you two thanks to our two powers (me and Fonz's), so that's what we're going to do regardless. Fonz is going. No question. The only question would be whether we go with you being town or we go with username being town.

you got to be kiding me. Use your brain over roles. If Star ain't scum and game ain't over then it must be me or IAM. it doesn't matter who is townier between me and iam. Fonz is townier than anyone and should live before either of us

[PokerFace]

Fonz you are town

Who do you think is more scum, than me or username?

thats who red should kill. if game ends with iam aimng a gun at my head as I can't do anything since town blocker is dead I will be pissed

[PokerFace]

Poker, look at it this way. I'm blocking you either way, it's out of my hands. I'm therefore committed to not stopping RC if he wants to kill me, and I can live with that. (Well, I

can't

, but you know what I mean). You can continue to try to convince Red that I'm town if you wish. The block poker, shoot Iam scenario is ideal from my POV because town can't lose, but I understand Red's concerns and I can live with him thinking I'm more likely scum than Iam. I just want to ensure that he knows that day dawning tomorrow will mean Pokerscum, 100% certainty.

why the hell do you think I, pokerface am scum?

[PokerFace]

PF, wow, okay, dude, in a group of A, B, and C, either we can eliminate A and B of the possibility of being scum, or we can just eliminate A. What, objectively, is better for the town to do?

what are you refering to as A and B?

eliminating 2 choices is always better than eliminating 1.

Fonz ain't scum and if he is so intent on blocking me than kill IAM

[PokerFace]

Fonz you are town

Who do you think is more scum, than me or username?

thats who red should kill. if game ends with iam aimng a gun at my head as I can't do anything since town blocker is dead I will be pissed

NO.

Because what you say today makes me worry about the possibility of BP. Top suspect should be blocked, SECOND suspect should be shot.

you are not second suspect. You aren't any kind of suspect in my book.

If Star ain't dead scum then one of IAM or myself has to die and fonz should live

[PokerFace]

Poker, look at it this way. I'm blocking you either way, it's out of my hands. I'm therefore committed to not stopping RC if he wants to kill me, and I can live with that. (Well, I

can't

, but you know what I mean). You can continue to try to convince Red that I'm town if you wish. The block poker, shoot Iam scenario is ideal from my POV because town can't lose, but I understand Red's concerns and I can live with him thinking I'm more likely scum than Iam. I just want to ensure that he knows that day dawning tomorrow will mean Pokerscum, 100% certainty.

why the hell do you think I, pokerface am scum?

If day dawns, it's certain. If the unblocked, unshot player is scum, then he will shoot, and the game will be over.

AS for why I think it's you, gut mostly, some flying under the radar, and my instinct is that Iam's bad claim looks like an honest mistake.

ahh I see what you are saying your block will force a tomorow as scum me can't kill. I get it if star is town then iam will win tomorow as only me and him will be alive as he kills red over night.

[PokerFace]

man I really hope Star was last scum as I don't think I can get red to let fonz live overnight

[PokerFace]

Red why do you still suspect Fonz more than username seriously?

[PokerFace]

you are not second suspect. You aren't any kind of suspect in my book.

If Star ain't dead scum then one of IAM or myself has to die and fonz should live

You need to take your heart out of the equation, PF. As much as you'd like it to be the case, Fonz is not cleared here (neither is username, for that matter, but that's a burden I'm willing to bear).

Although I don't know why I'm treating you both like townies. One of you deserves a gold star for your performance in the face of an inevitable loss here.

i am not scum I am town and if star is town and Red shoots fonz, there won't be a tomorrow. Town will loose.

I think and hope star was last scum on the off chance she isn't i have to give everthing I got and can't give up so that town still wins

I still think fonz is town and therefore think its easier to say he is town more than say I am town. I don't care about what others think of me as town.

fine Red why do you think user is town and I am scum?

Don't say because of DGB's point system because he is worse there.

[PokerFace]

I am not acting. If i was scum I'd loose tomorrow if you blocked me so if you don't trust me than go ahead and block me

I believe I said before fate scum mean IAM could be scum. Hey Red ask yourself this. Why might IAM want to find a case on me when he was already voting Fate yesterday? Because he didn't want to lynch Fate! Why did he not lynch spyreX with me and Korlash earlier in the game? Because he didn't want to kill his buddy! Why did he say chev was town day one and go back on him day 2? Because he is scum faking reads.

I still think star is scum but if she is not I will not garantee the town to death like Fonz by username staying alive

[PokerFace]

If you want me to make a case IAM is scum then I do it. He is worse on DGB's voting thing.

Look at how he treated cyber and CKD. Niether of us tried to lynch them so we are even there

Look how he treated Fate. I have said Fate is scum for a long as time and tried to get him/spyreX killed for the Xtoxm thing which was likly true

IAM is more likly scum than me

[PokerFace]

Hell both me and Fonz are toniwer than IAM. Very fact he tried to lie about his claim should make him less towny

[PokerFace]

you are not second suspect. You aren't any kind of suspect in my book.

If Star ain't dead scum then one of IAM or myself has to die and fonz should live

You need to take your heart out of the equation, PF. As much as you'd like it to be the case, Fonz is not cleared here (neither is username, for that matter, but that's a burden I'm willing to bear).

Although I don't know why I'm treating you both like townies

. One of you deserves a gold star for your performance in the face of an inevitable loss here.

thats cause we are both townies and I don't give a shit about any gold star. Kill username!

[PokerFace]

^Fonz not care about gold star either. He is town. go ahead and block me if tthats what you want

Ask yourself 2 questions Red

1. If PokerFace is scum what would be the best thing for him to do so scum can win?

2. Is PokerFace doing that thing?

If the answer to number 2 is NO then kill username!

[PokerFace]

I will never understand why red thought Fonz was scummy. Lurky =/= scum and i think that was only reason Red could suspect him. iamusername probably could have done more scummy things and gotten away with it. His shifting gears to fate on second to last day wasn't needed. Be more agressive as scum username. Claim was descent though but uneeded. Have fun with your role but don't do unecessary things.

It was obvious early in the game vig was either Korlash, no case, Red. I thought it was Korlash until last day

Fate did most of the distancing work from username. My reads sucked this game for most part

[PokerFace]

also can DGB or someone who knows her well explain her voting numbers in terms of how it worked on cyber and username but totally was was wrong about me?

[PokerFace]

I know that much fate, still it caught 2 out of 4 and it doesn't work on me so I'd love to learn how to use it on others

[PokerFace]

Meh your reads were better than most others Korlash so you should be somewhat glad

DGB made some comments early on that hinted at there being 2 scum groups and I remember seeing them. SpyreX probably got the idea from those comments. I dismissed the ideas possibility after xalxe's and ckd flip since 2 scum groups and an sk sounded dumb aldo ckd was nopt part of mafia

A

he was just mafia

[PokerFace]

The SK was really underpowered here. He could delay things and kill and was suppose to win it all with just that? I realize winning with SK should be hard but still lookslike xalxe had a real uphill battle here

Ascetic appears more often than it should on the irc servers I frequent. It is fairly common on xyl's IRC server. But there it is most oftenly a towny. I think the role can be scum there but it rarely is mainly because investigations return no result and the role can't be blocked making it incredibly useful to scum in that regard. And with all the power roles on that site being imune to all the roles that can't kill is a large imunity. Ascetic is kinda underused on Mafiascum though. I have never seen it appear on this site and wouldn't have suspected it to show up here.

But its not a question of Scum blocker and odd-night cop being more common than ascetic scum and town blocker. It's a question of who you find scummy and who would have reason to lie. Anti was obviously a role blocker. Town or scum not obvious to Red. Was username more obviousl a cop? I think not. Given 4 man scum group I actually thought mafia sounded under powered with level of town power roles. I knew last scum had to have something special.

I'll never get how Red ever found Antihero or Fonz suspicious. I can see how he found me suspicious. I suck as town with how I find and follow reads. Been considering temp to permanent retirement as a result of discovering my own meta. I basically found some tells that work on me everytime and instantly tell you if I am town or scum. Manage to fix some but not all of them. That and its no secret some crazy shit has been going on in my life that I need to handle and get comfortable with.

I apoligize for some aspects of my poor reads and poor desires to play the game. Work shedule that made me V/la alot didn't help things but was not entirely my fault with life. I wonder if I should have replaced myself during the game with the shit I had going on, but oh well. I still had fun so thanks for the game Khan

[PokerFace]

Thanks for the props fate.

@red don't feel bad. As a lover of the vig role you did well. Shot 3 out of 5 scum. Only mistake you made was suspecting Fonz. I can't fault you for suspecting me

The tells I noticed in my meta more so identify me as town. There are certain things I only do as town and a few people have picked on them. And when I do none of those tells its safe to say I am scum. Ironically what I plan to do is to fix all that is to purposely do those as scum. Some people say you can't mimick or break you meta I plan to do just that, at least against those that do know my town tells

^Fonz not care about gold star either. He is town. go ahead and block me if tthats what you want

Ask yourself 2 questions Red

1. If PokerFace is scum what would be the best thing for him to do so scum can win?

2. Is PokerFace doing that thing?

If the answer to number 2 is NO then kill username!

1. Argue firmly against being targeted

2.
What was PF doing?
Argue against being blocked, he wants killed (Unkillable?)
Argue against being killed, he wants blocked (Unblockable?)
Argue against both happening, he wants niether (he is Goon?)

Say you could do either one to him while he wants someone else to be saved

It was obvious there was one scum left when star died and game didn't instant end. Which meant there was not 2 scum and I had no reason of trying to clear Fonz or anybody

[PokerFace]

nah no mod error Red killed ckd. Coyote said he killed CKD. Khan likly made a copy and paste error when he posted that since Red did kill dutch a different night