Amrun- Right
Ace- Right
CJ- Was a mason with me, but when the conversion happened, I knew if it was anyone it was him.
Malthusis- Right
Vollkan- Wrong
ZeL1nk- I had him null, so I'll say wrong. :S
So uh... 3.5/6? Maybe 4? I'm happy, considering I died N2
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
Note: Some of the role PM pictures are different than the original because the site that hosted a lot of them went down, so I just Google searched for replacement images.
Last edited by Kdub on Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- All abilities that target Keel while the Angels are still alive will fail. This includes roleblocks/rolestops, kill attempts, and investigations. Also includes indirect reflexive roles (e.g. watchers wouldn't see him). Investigative roles that target him get a "You were unable to determine..." result, just the same as if they had been roleblocked.
Kaworu
- Enabled-Magi investigations on Kaworu will return "You determine your target to not be an Angel".
Arael
- The Mind Rape ability will result in this PM being sent to the target: "An intense beam of bright light shines upon you as you feel someone...or some
thing
...intruding into your mind..."
Leliel
- The Dirac Sea ability will result in this PM being sent to the target at the end of the night: "You found yourself enveloped in a void of darkness last night, unable to see or interact with anyone. You feel something trying to contact your mind. A distant voice calls to you: ..." followed by Leliel's message (optional).
Ramiel
- Shapeshifting will not void a recruit attempt through the second recruiting method (D1 or kill attempted the previous night) in the same way that Arael's ability would.
Shinji
- If he tries to hide behind Keel while Keel is still action immune, the hide attempt will fail. If he hides behind Keel after he has lost his action immunity, Shinji will die. Shinji still dies if he hides behind Kaworu.
Rei
- No reveal upon her first death, full reveal upon second death.
Unit-00
- One-shot bulletproof only blocks one kill attempt, so stacked attempts will kill it. Unit 00 still dies or uses its bulletproof ability if the protected player is also protected by another role and a kill attempt is made against them. If the bulletproof gets used, Unit-00 receives this PM: "Your
one-shot bulletproof
ability has been used and is no longer in effect."
Unit-01
- If the first kill attempt successfully kills an Angel, Unit-01 will receive this PM: "You have received a second
Day Kill
that functions in the same way as your first one. You may use it during any day phase after the current one."
Melchior/Balthasar/Casper
- When the Angels use their recruit attempt, the Magi will get their new PMs at the same time the mod scene is posted.
Ritsuko
- If Ritsuko successfully targets a Magi or Ireul, they receive this message: "You have received a one-shot ability that can be used during any day phase. You may PM the mod the name of a player you wish to investigate. You will attempt to determine whether that player is an
Angel
."
Maya
- If Ritsuko dies, she will get a new Modified Enabler/Inventor role PM. She will be informed of Ritsuko's previous night targets.
Toji
- Protective roles still target him, they just don't work. If Unit-00 protects Toji and Toji is targeted by a kill, Toji dies and Unit-00 gets hit as well.
---
Safeclaims
---
Recruitment
If the Angels use their recruit attempt, the following modscene will trigger:
If a Magi is recruited, they receive a new role PM:
The unrecruited Magi will receive new role PMs similar to Ireul's safeclaim PM.
If an Evangelion is recruited, they receive a new role PM:
Welcome to
Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia
, XXXXX. You are
Bardiel
(Infected XXXXX/Traitor)
. You are a fungus-like creature that can infect mechanical systems, allowing you to mutate and take control of them.
You have been recruited and are now aligned with the
Angels
. Your partners are ace5993, vollkan, Amrun, and ZeL1nK. They know that you are now a member of their faction, but you may not communicate with them privately.
Abilities
Infected Evangelion
- You are an Evangelion unit, but you have been infected and taken over by the Angel
Bardiel
. You keep the same abilities that you had prior to joining the
Angels
.
Safeclaim
You may use your original role PM as a safeclaim.
Win Condition
You win when all players other than those in your faction are dead and at least one member of your faction is alive, or when nothing can prevent the same.
If a player is recruited and later dies, both their old role and new role are shown when they flip. Bardiel's role will be "Infected XXXXX/Traitor", where XXXXX is the player's previous role.
---
Other Notes
If Ritsuko dies, Maya receives this new role PM:
Welcome to
Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia
, XXXXX. You are
Maya Ibuki
(Modified Enabler/Inventor)
. You are a computer technician at
Nerv
headquarters. You operate the primary control stations and provide support during battles. You serve directly under Dr. Akagi, whom you look up to and admire.
You are aligned with
Nerv
.
Abilities
Backup
- You were the backup to Ritsuko Akagi, who previously held the
Program
ability. Ritsuko's previous night's targets were:
N1
-
Program (Protect/Enable Investigation)
- You have the ability to interact with and reprogram the Magi supercomputers that run
Nerv
headquarters. During night phases, you may attempt to target another player with this ability. If the targeted player received a role PM at the start of the game telling them that they are one of the Magi supercomputers, this ability will be successful, otherwise it will have no effect. If successful, any standard kill attempts that target the player that night will be prevented. In addition, that player will receive a one-shot investigative ability that can be used during any subsequent day phase. This ability will allow them to target another player during the day to find out if they are an
Angel
or not. You will not be informed whether your ability was successful or not. This ability will only work once each player capable of receiving this ability successfully.
Thanks, but I don't think I did. Of course, this game happened at a time of my life where mafia was an obligation, and I think it shows the most in this game. I am pretty ashamed of my performance here.
Se la vie.
Pom used her PR very well - Vollkan was the towniest of us.
p-edit:
It was a bit of a strategical play. I thought you might blow up about it and I'd come off looking better. I really don't hold a grudge towards you, though. I swear.
It was a bit of a strategical play. I thought you might blow up about it and I'd come off looking better. I really don't hold a grudge towards you, though. I swear.
I don't find that to be a sportsmanlike thing to do.
Amrun wrote:Pom used her PR very well - Vollkan was the towniest of us.
Which was why I targeted him-- I mainly wanted to confirm the town read I had on him, but I figured I might as wall breadcrumb it. And I have to say that I was mildly offended when GI put down my play in #1625, because I think I did pretty well in all.
It was a bit of a strategical play. I thought you might blow up about it and I'd come off looking better. I really don't hold a grudge towards you, though. I swear.
I don't find that to be a sportsmanlike thing to do.
I don't know why you still care about it, seriously. I apologize if it really bothered you, but I thought you might say something about it and have it serve as a distraction, not get actually upset.
I wanted to create noise over cults and nonsense and I achieved my purpose very well.
Pom, I agree with you. I think you did a good job as a hider, though you could have breadcrumbed your n1 target.
Amrun wrote:Pom used her PR very well - Vollkan was the towniest of us.
Which was why I targeted him-- I mainly wanted to confirm the town read I had on him, but I figured I might as wall breadcrumb it. And I have to say that I was mildly offended when GI put down my play in #1625, because I think I did pretty well in all.
Meh, sorry, now that I know you used it, it's a lot better.
I wish you'd breadcrumbed the Iec target a bit better, but hey, it all worked out.
I'm happy people thought I was relatively obvtown. I really didn't pay much attention all game.
I'm pretty happy with my play to the extent that I participated, though. My only BIG no-reservations /fail was with vollkan. I wonder how the game would've turned out if he hadn't been caught...
OK, first things first. A huge thank you goes out to Papa Zito for backing me up and handling vote counts for a couple weeks. Thanks also to my setup reviewers for giving me ideas and looking things over. Their suggestions definitely improved this game.
I knew when I was designing the game that it would be extremely swingy. That was just a consequence of the abilities I wanted to have in this setup. Considering that the town misused (IMO) a lot of their power roles, and that two town players got modkilled, yet the town still won easily, the setup appears to have been town-favored. That was what my gut feeling was when I started the game, but I also thought to myself that if the game actions went a certain way, the Angels could easily dominate. It's hard to say when we only have one particular iteration of the game that played out.
I did not anticipate the SK dying on D1. That certainly helped the town out. I was counting on him being sort of a neutralizing factor, since he needed to kill both the town and the Angels, but not either one too quickly or he would be in trouble. Pre-game, I was thinking the SK actually had a pretty good chance in this game. I think malthusis could have gotten out of his lynch (at least for a day), but he made a poor fakeclaim. Alas, it was not to be.
Regarding the recruitment, that was pretty much the sole reason I put a bastard warning on this game. Tar and Ludi expressed some disappointment over being recruited, so I had a lengthy discussion with them where I explained the recruitment process and acknowledged ways in which it could have been implemented better. Overall, it was a very productive discussion. Rather than go through it all again, I'll just copy and paste a message I sent them:
Kdub wrote:
First, a brief description of the recruiting process. The Angels have a one-shot recruit attempt that they can use during any day phase. They had to forfeit a night kill to use it. It would only work on certain characters, the Magi being among them. This is what happened to you at the very start of D2.
Balance-wise, recruitment is a huge swing in power. I knew this game would be very swingy, but I took steps to ensure that it was still balanced, and tried to reduce the swing as much as I could while still keeping the game elements I wanted to have. This is why, among other things, the recruit couldn't communicate with the rest of the Angels (they knew this would be the case because it was in the ability description), the flavor suggested that someone (likely the Magi) had been recruited, etc. Successfully recruiting someone was such a powerful gain for the Angels that I had to weaken it in many ways.
Also, breaking up the masons and turning them into neighbors needed to happen. Although I did put a bastard warning on this game (almost exclusively because of the recruitment mechanic), I never would allow the masons to continue to operate under the assumption that they could trust each other after the recruitment happened - that would have been lying to them, which is not something I think a mod should ever do unless he specifically says pre-game that he could (and even then, it's clearly in the territory of the mod having fun at the expense of the players). Since breaking up the masonry was such a huge swing in power from town to scum (in addition to the infighting and paranoia that the mason-to-neighbor transformation would have resulted in) and very difficult to balance depending on whether that happened or not, I made the decision to have the masons turn to neighbors regardless of the outcome of the recruit attempt, gave the Angels some incentives to use this ability, and balanced the rest of the game around the assumption that this event would happen.
I understand that you were frustrated because it appeared "obvious" that you had been recruited, which led to your inevitable death. That was done intentionally for balance reasons, as I described above. I did feel bad for you two getting recruited because you were one of the most pro-town players on D1 and were very much on the right track, but that fact, along with your recruitment, had a lot to do with the randomness of the role assignments. It was just bad luck that of all the players who could have been recruited, it happened to be you who got outed first. I want to thank both of you for being good sports about it, since I know there are other games that have had problems with recruits not playing to win after changing alignment.
Overall, aside from the fact that one of the most pro-town players was the one who got recruited (which is a possibility with any game involving recruitment), I'm reasonably satisfied with the way the recruitment mechanic actually played out. I was quite nervous about this game because it was an ability that could have easily been imbalanced. As it stands, despite being somewhat obvious scum, you managed to create a ton of havoc and confusion that contributed to at least one mislynch and diverted attention away from the rest of the Angels, who otherwise might have been under much more heat.
...
OK, now for the embarrassing secret that people won't find out about until postgame. The Angels' recruitment would have succeeded on either Magi (who would have become Ireul) or on Eva units (who would have become Bardiel). Regardless of the outcome of the recruit attempt, the Magi would have been turned into neighbors, the exact same modscene would have been posted...but all the Magi still would have been town and there may have been a recruit remaining safely hidden, with their original powers. Yeah, definitely not the situation I had envisioned. Luckily, this will not be an issue the way the game actually played out. But if I could go back and redesign a part of the game, I would have changed the modscene and maybe sent a warning message to certain players that suggested the possibility that an Eva unit had been recruited instead. I really did not expect players to pay as much attention to the flavor as they did, but I see that it clearly funneled their suspicions toward the Magi and not enough toward other potential recruitable roles. I also did not forsee the Angels using Kast's perceived scumminess with some clever timing to make it look like he was the one who recruited you. Oh well, it's a learning experience for me, and I'll keep it in mind if I decide to use similar mechanics again.
The other major issue I feel that I need to address is the two modkills. I really hate modkills because it messes with the game balance. I am of the opinion that modkills are an ultra-extreme measure that should only be used if there are no better alternatives. I think with tajo, there was no way to avoid it. The only alternative would have been to force-replace everybody who saw his PM, which was over half of the remaining playerlist at the time. PZ and I decided to let him maintain his win condition in spite of what I said in the rules because it was an honest mistake instead of a deliberate offense worthy of a modkill, which is what I had in mind when I posted that rule. With Kast, it was a bit more debatable. I would have had to force replace only three players to avoid having to modkill, which certainly would have been disruptive, but perhaps not ridiculously so compared to the tajo situation. Ultimately, I felt that because two other spots were in need of replacement already, and the fact that I had already set a precedent with tajo, I had to modkill Kast as well. In retrospect, I do not think I should have allowed tajo to keep his win condition. I may have been giving him a break for what was very clearly an honest, non-malicious error, but in doing so, I set a bad precedent. Would Kast have made the same mistake if I hadn't given tajo a break? I don't know, but I'd like to think there was at least a chance he would have been more careful. I would have felt bad if the town had lost because of the two modkills. In fact, Kast's modkill may have actually helped the town because he was a potential mislynch. I wish we would have had the chance to see how things would have played out.
Regarding the actual game, I think the town very clearly outplayed the scum. None of the scum, save for vollkan a bit on D1, looked particularly townie. I also think the Angels used Amrun's ability poorly after N1, when it should have been one of their most powerful abilities. Blocking Stevie on N1 was reasonable since he had softclaimed a PR, but after he fullclaimed, it was a mistake to continue targeting him. vollkan using the Angel's strongest safeclaim (Asuka) when he was almost certainly going to be lynched was a mistake as well. The town didn't always make great action choices either (I thought for sure GW would get lynched for not protecting Starbuck on N7), but they were good enough. Pom made good use of her power, and I'm not sure Amrun gets targeted by Starbuck if not for her looking scummy during the day. GreyICE was pretty far off in the early parts of the game, but by the end, he was able to put things together and lead the town to victory.
If I could go back and change things about the setup, I probably would have changed the recruitment mechanics somewhat. There are a lot of ways I could have handled it, but I'm thinking that having more of a standard traitor mechanic (making all the Magi neighbors from the start) might have been better. Alternatively, I could have made one of the Eva units a recruitable traitor and still started the Magi as neighbors. Too much of the town's power was concentrated in the masonry and the associated support role (Ritsuko/Maya), and weakening them by breaking them up via recruitment and role change was a bit too swingy. I probably would have weakened Ritsuko's power slightly by making the Magi's investigation a night action instead of a day action. I think I also would have given the Angels an additional power. Flavor-wise, I think the scum were all given reasonably strong (on average) safeclaims. They had to come up with their own fake abilities, but I think that is a part of skillful scum play.
At the end of the day, I think that the team that played the best was the team that won the game. To me, that means that despite a lot of the improvements that I could have made in the setup, it was at least a successful game, and I hope people had fun. I mentioned this to Tar and Ludi when I was talking with them about the game, but I'll say it here in public: I want to run this game again. Not this exact setup, and maybe not even a setup close to this one, but an NGE-themed game. It won't happen for a while (maybe when 3.0 comes out?), but my reasons for wanting to do so are threefold. First, I learned a lot from designing and running this game, and although I am OK with how it ended up, I know that there are a lot of things that could have been done better. I look at this game and I see that it could have potentially been epic if a few things were tweaked. Second, I think the source material allows for a lot of different possible role combinations. Just consider how many Angels there are that I didn't use in this setup, as well as alternative possibilities for a lot of the Nerv roles. Seele could have been an entire separate faction. There are just so many ways to create interesting setups. Finally, this game was the most fun I've had designing a setup. The possibilities were just flying through my mind when I started laying out what kinds of things I could put in the game. I don't think I could say the same for other themes, as interesting as they may be. Like I said, it won't happen for a while, but it will be in the back of my mind.
If there are any additional questions or comments, feel free to share them. I treat every postgame as an opportunity to improve myself both as a setup designer and moderator so that I can design fun and interesting setups in the future.