Mini 1266 - My iTunes Mafia - GAME OVER

[DeasVail]

/confirm

[DeasVail]

Vote: Skenvoy

who I actually believe is slightly more likely to be scum than anyone else.

[DeasVail]

It is only very slight, but I know that Skenvoy expressed interesting in outing this game before role pms went out and I know that she hasn't been scum much recently, so I think that a scum role pm may have encouraged her to stay in. Also, she mentions the iTunes thing as interesting almost as if defending her choice to stay in the game.

[DeasVail]

Because I knew someone would prompt me.

Your post = My point is void because of.... *explanation of why you wanted to /out, which is not of much relevance to my point*

Your post indicates that you are somewhat concerned by my (extremely slight, almost random) suspicion of you. However, why have you explained your wish to /out when my theory is concerned with you staying in, despite having wanted to /out?

[DeasVail]

Unvote: Skenvoy
Vote: Painted Face of Death

Painted, your post indicates to me that you are very concerned with justifying your reason for voting me and appearing as if you have a great understanding of what's going on.

Well, you don't. Skenvoy wanting to /out had nothing to do with my vote on her. It is her staying in, despite having wanted to /out earlier that made me *very slightly* suspicious of her.

Why are you complaining about a useless post in RVS?

You're completely over-reacting to a slight suspicion I expressed in RVS. It seems like you're trying to look town and logical by providing these three reasons for your vote, but it's nitpicking at best. I think you are scum because you seem to be trying to make your vote seem justified and make me out to be suspicious when you haven't even considered anything properly.

[DeasVail]

This game got serious fast.

I like

I know!

So, Skenvoy, what do you think of Painted?

Also Slandaar, should I believe that you're town because you've supported me?

[DeasVail]

No, Painted, because I never pretended that my "case" (if you could even call it that) was any better than it actually was.

Why are you using my behaviour to defend your own if you suspect me?

The whole three reasons: a) b) c) thing seems to me like an attempt to make your "case" convincing, rather than a slight suspicion.

[DeasVail]

Oh, and nitpicking because you're basically complaining about my lack of logic/lack of information provided, while I can't consider my suspicion nitpicking because I was presenting a possible theory.

[DeasVail]

hmmm, I don't think I should believe you're town just because I agree with your reasoning. You could easily be scum.

[DeasVail]

Firstly, my theory was not about skenvoy wanting to /out, it was about her staying in, but she gave an explanation of why she wanted to /out, but not why she stayed in.

My suspicion was very very slight. Of course I knew that it was unlikely, but thinking someone is slightly more likely to be scum is better than an RV as far as I'm concerned.

Painted, I was waiting for you to call OMGUS What was wrong with my vote exactly? Also, isn't "it is likely that DV is scum" quite different from it being possible for me to be scum?

My top two suspects at the moment are:
Painted Face of Death
Slandaar- I'll probably explain this soon, but I'll just post what I have for now.

Although, Skenvoy, if you are scum, don't get too comfortable

[DeasVail]

[J], What do you think could make me supicious of Slandaar?

[DeasVail]

This game got serious fast.

I like

I know!

So, Skenvoy, what do you think of Painted?

Also Slandaar, should I believe that you're town because you've supported me?

The above was my post.

Not because I have supported you, no.

If you agree with the reasoning behind supporting you then you should I think.

I find you pretty town anyways, that reasoning behind the vote on sken was really well thought out, your vote on painted was pretty good too imo.

I'm quite wary of Slandaar. It seems as if he's really jumping onto the whole skenvoy thing and I really don't get why he keeps saying my vote on Skenvoy was well-thought-out/logical, because it wasn't that good at all in my opinion.

Also I get a weird feeling from the posts I quoted. I may have seemed like I could be easily manipulated and Slandaar's post makes it seems liek he could be attempting to manipulate me.

Nothing too serious at the moment, and I find Painted a lot more scummy, but I do suspect Slandaar.

[J]: What doesn't "sit well" with my response? As far as my wagon, I got no idea about you or Noramp. I don't really understand the reasoning behind my wagon. I'm also still waiting for my objections to DJ's analysis to be addressed.

DV: If I understand correctly, an OMGUS vote is a vote for someone who just voted for you? See post 45 for what was wrong with it.
I think it's likely that you're scum, but I'm hoping people will agree that it's at least possible. I said that in response to Noramp's post.
Why do you think an explanation for Sken staying in is required? She had signed up and the game had started. Unless she has a good reason for leaving, she'd stay in by default.

Saying that someone's vote is OMGUS implies that the main reason for them voting is because they were voted for (I'm noob so I might be wrong). Anyway, it seems to me that by saying my vote is OMGUS, you detract from the credibility of my vote.

Of course it's possible I'm scum. Why would anyone think otherwise?

[DeasVail]

Personally, I am having a hard time seeing DV as scum really with the way his posts are going.

So DV, to make it clear, you feel Slandaar is manipulating you in a way that looks scummy to you?

Pretty much, but it's mostly just a feeling rather than anything concrete. I just thought I'd share it.

Oh, and to whoever asked about my call-out to skenvoy, it's because I haven't made up my mind up about her yet and I don't want her to think that I don't suspect her at all anymore.

[DeasVail]

Skenvoy doesn't like being power roles by the way. At least that's what she's told me. I also know that she has wanted to be in a game as scum, since she has been town a lot recently. I don't why you can't accept that I had a fair reason to slightly suspect someone during RVS.

Painted, please clarify why you think I'm scum. Possible scum motivations behind my posts would also be nice.

[DeasVail]

monk, What is it about Skenvoy that deserves attention?

Also, Painted, regarding your mention of people's post numbers, are you suggesting that we shouldn't discuss? But yes, that would be a good strategy. I don't know how it should make a difference though.

[DeasVail]

Unvote: Painted Face of Death
Vote: Monk

This does not mean that I no longer suspect painted.

[DeasVail]

Just wanting to get this out there: Why does skenvoy have 3 votes?

Don, why is your vote on skenvoy when you said that my initial reason for voting her wasn't that strong and your summary post seemed to indicate you were more suspicious of Painted.

VOTE: Skenvoy

You guys are arguing over whether Sken and Painted are buddies and focusing on Painted, meanwhile Sken is not getting the attention she deserves.

More that she's scooting under the radar, if she is likely to be scum with painted shouldn't we try and push more interaction out of the both of them and not just painted?

monk, what do you actually think? You've somehow managed to avoid providing this. Your posts seem to depend on what everyone else thinks rather than what you think yourself, as if you have no opinion? Firstly, you never actually properly explained why Skenvoy deserved the attention. Secondly, how can we push interaction out of them, if you're saying that this is the plan?

I will try to give an objective view on their behavior

Firstly, what you provided wasn't objective and we have no use for objective views anyway. I want subjective views! You saying that you're trying to give an objective view sounds scummy to me, as if you feel that your view is different from ours because you're scum and know (almost) everything.

PFOD, STOP FREAKING DEFENDING ME. I CAN DO IT MYSELF.

At the moment, I have a town read on Deasveil, cause he's playing completely differently to the way he's played a scum. Slandaar's sticking out a lot, and I think scum would play more cautiously at this stage of the game.

Skenvoy, why do you have such a problem with PFoD defending you?

Your town read on me doesn't seem quite right. Why do you feel the need to express your town read on me (twice) and justify it using meta (twice)?

[DeasVail]

I know you don't think it's a good idea to defend people.

However, if you are town, I would have thought you would more likely suspect Painted for defending you rather than complain about it and tell him to stop. I asked the question with the hope thast your answer would provide me with some sort of insight.

[DeasVail]

Fennin: Although there are reasons why I think Skenvoy might be scum, a lot of it is because I've played with her before. You said "The change of style could be done on purpose. Or did you play a lot of games together?" That's the thing. We haven't played that many games together and I don't have a very consistent style. By the way, we've played forum mafia on another site.

I obviously don't expect to convince any of you that Skenvoy is scum with meta reasons, but they obviously affect how I think of her.

monk: Still waiting for your response

Painted: I want to know why you suspect me. What you're saying about Skenvoy doesn't have much to do with my suspicion of her. You have been defending Skenvoy, so please don't pretend otherwise. Why do you think Skenvoy is scum? A lot of people think I'm town, so what would be "not quite right" about Skenvoy's town read on me from your perspective?

Don, why do you think that skenvoy is scum?

[DeasVail]

Skenvoy, why the rush to lynch painted? Why not focus on pressuring on those who you don't have a read on first?

[DeasVail]

Skenvoy: ah, so you're vote is because you want to get rid of him and he's annoying to you, rather than because you actually think he is scum. Good to know.

[DeasVail]

*your

[DeasVail]

I'm putting my vote on Painted because I'm sick of him defending me when I've asked him to stop. Added to that, the fact that he's saying he didn't.

Okay, if I'm honest, I don't expect him to be lynched quickly. However, that's where I'm leaving my vote for now.

It was the impression I got from this post

Painted has already started to turn on you, so your message to your scumbuddy was not required.

I know I'm taking a stretch here, but what was the purpose of "(and I totally bet Painted completely turns on me for it)"?

I don't know why you would like it if your vote makes Painted stop defending you. I don't think it will change much.

[DeasVail]

Thanks for your posts [J], although saying you'll probably never vote Skenvoy seems a bit strange to me. What makes you think that she is town?

[DeasVail]

hmm, my read on Skenvoy at the moment is leaning scum, but I think I could be getting caught up and not paying enough attention to those who aren't in the limelight. I'm very inexperienced, so don't trust my read on her just because I know her. However, the reasons you think skenvoy is town, do not alter my read.

In my opinion, you're making too big a deal out of guttersnipe's actions.

[DeasVail]

I don't agree at all with my post strengthening the likelihood of me being town. Saying I'm inexperienced takes away from my responsibility if I cause a mislynch. Mentioning how I might be getting caught up and not paying attention to those in the limelight keeps my options open if I'm scum, allowing me to vote whoever I like while remaining consistent with what I have posted. I am town, so you're right in thinking so, but I would most likely say something similar in that position if I were scum.

I've got null on Fennin at the moment, but Fennin, why was Skenvoy the main subject?

Skenvoy, what do you think of [J] having town reads on both of us?

[DeasVail]

No, I have considered what others say and no longer think Slandaar is particularly likely to be scum.

I don't really have any town reads unfortunately and as I said before I'm hesitant to say "I have a scum read on X" with X having posted a lot while many have barely posted at all (and I know Internet Stranger hasn't said anything) and I still have unanswered questions. If I was to rank people based on something like scummy (in my opinion) behaviour : no. of posts ratio, it might look something like this:

Monk (hopefully the capitalising will make you post)
Painted
don_johnson (awaiting clarification)
Skenvoy
Metabot
[J]
Everyone else (null)
Slandaar, Guttersnipe (null-town... maybe)

As you can see, I'm very paranoid.

[DeasVail]

Most scummy per post is top and least scummy per post is bottom according to my opinion, so you rank in 6th

I suspect you because you seem to quick to believe people are town, when only scum have much idea of who town are at this stage.

I don't think DJ is that low considering I have found monk and painted to be very scummy in their posts. I couldn't understand DJ's vote for Skenvoy, which is why he's so high.

Metabot because of weird wording in his posts, which has been pointed out by others and not commenting much on the main conflict.

[DeasVail]

Good luck with everything [J]

DJ voted for Skenvoy at a time when I couldn't see why someone would find her particularly scummy, whereas Guttersnipe voted later when I think it's possible someone could legitimately find her scummy. I don't mind him not providing a reason as long as he does eventually.

Weird stuff in Metabot's post- lurking because of RL issues or something else entirely, trying to give an objective view, when it was not,

[DeasVail]

Nothing mathematical or anything and not to be taken too seriously. It's just what I think.

[DeasVail]

That's the thing. I would not expect to be such an easy town read from you

Edit based on Skenvoy post: Everything's subjective so that's as close to mathematical as it gets.

Edit based on [J]'s post: ooo, I agree with Skenvoy's posts regarding town reads and don't see it as very WIFOMy. Maybe I'm wrong though. I don't know about forced. I'm just confused by the early-ish votes on Skenvoy (after Slandaar's)

[DeasVail]

I've never completed a forum mafia game, so I haven't been burned, but in my first game which I replaced out of, I was scum and it's incredibly interesting seeing people think that you're town from that kind of perspective. And about DJ, pretty much what you said.

@Skenvoy: With DJ, it was because his post was very focused on painted and I don't remember him providing reasons for the vote on you.

[DeasVail]

I'm putting my vote on Painted because I'm sick of him defending me when I've asked him to stop. Added to that, the fact that he's saying he didn't.

Okay, if I'm honest, I don't expect him to be lynched quickly. However, that's where I'm leaving my vote for now.

What was the purpose of "(and I totally bet Painted completely turns on me for it)"?

I forgot about this, but could you answer the question?

[DeasVail]

I don't really think I had a reason. It was more 'Oh, I bet he does this', and added it to the post.

I'll give you a town point for that.

[DeasVail]

I think that all painted/sken combinations are quite possible.

Assuming Sken is town, I think Painted is more likely to "defend" Skenvoy if he is scum than if he is town. This is because he knows Skenvoy is town and can attack me because I'm wrong.
I actually feel that Painted is most likely to be scum at the moment because of lots of things, including how weird his attack of me was, which I still don't understand. I just struggle to believe that he actually thinks anything he says.

[DeasVail]

Skens post re; lynch painted then if scum understand i need to go, could well be sken knowing painted is town, its not town to say lynch them then if they are scum lynch me, because as scum there is no risk for them.

The 'good intentions' are only 'good intentions' if painted flips scum.

Which makes me wonder about J.

Good point Slandaar

[DeasVail]

Thank you metabot for your post.

Firstly, ineperience does not mean that you will be wrong. What you think is very valuable if you are town.

To do an iso, underneath the quick reply box, there is "Display posts by user" next to a (drop-down box?), then select the desired player and click go, viewing all of someone's posts on their own.

I found your posts subjective because of your description of questions as "good" and one of DJ's posts as a "waste post".

[DeasVail]

Thank you DJ It is clear now.

No point having my vote on monk now and after a re-read I've decided I think painted is most likely to be scum, so:

Unvote: Monk
Vote: Painted Face of Death

[DeasVail]

PAINTED, WHY DO YOU SUSPECT ME???? WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON ME NOW?

Btw, saying "I think DV is scum because he voted for Skenvoy" is not good enough.

Possibly other comments coming after I pay closer attention to posts.

[DeasVail]

Why I think Painted is scum:

- Post 31: Painted votes me, presenting three reasons which makes it look as if his vote is completely justified while most of it consists of complaining about my vote on skenvoy, which has nothing to do with my likelihood to be scum. (Note that he mentioned my lack of immediate vote justification as scummy) If the purpose of the vote was to question my actions, why did he present a) b) c) as if he had a case on me being scum? If he really thought I was scum, why is it based on such silly reasons? I think this indicates scum because it seems Painted was more concerned with attacking someone for the sake of attacking them (and looking town) than he was for whether I might actually be scum or not.

- Post 38: An example of where Painted responds to my description of his actions as "overreacting" and "nitpicking" by questioning how my actions are any different. If he seriously suspected me of being scum, why would he defend himself by saying *well what I'm doing is no different from what you're doing*. Much more likely imo to be scum saying *well you're town and you're doing the same thing as me, so how am I scum* Additionally, the incorrect accusations indicate a lack of attention to my posts and reasoning, considering I was his top suspect.

- Post 45: Well now there's nothing wrong with me voting without immediate justification (pointed out by DJ) Reasons for voting me don't make much sense

- Post 47: No read at all on Skenvoy. Well, in that case, why not let her defend herself so we can try to work out whether she's scum or not? I think town are more likely to realise this than scum.

- Post 62: Dismisses what DJ says by saying he's either scummy or VI, when I didn't see anything to indicate that. Accuses him of confusion and misinformation. Painted just not responding well at all to suspicion on him. Recurring theme in painted's posts- tends to define me by my vote on Skenvoy even though I jumped off it pretty quickly when I found painted suspicious, seems to feel the need to continue his suspicion of me to not look scummy, so perhaps focuses on my vote on skenvoy which was such a small section of the game to sustain his suspicion on me. "looking at what's happened since [the skenvoy vote] I'm suspecting DV"- well that's strange considering all he has been able to mention about me that's apparently scummy is the skenvoy vote. Misrepresents my vote on skenvoy (weird coming from someone who complains about being misrepresented. If they truly felt they were, they'd more likely to try not to do it to others)

- Post 65: Still the focus on Skenvoy, explaining her actions even though he doesn't think she's town and doesn't actually know her reasons.

I can't really be bothered saying much more now (at this point in the ISO, I give up and think to myself: Well he might be a really scummy townie, but there's no question that he's really scummy)

[DeasVail]

Happy Birthday [J]!

[DeasVail]

I dont' think i'm familar enough with this game to make contributory posts/ ideas. You can ask me stuff if you want, but I probably won't be able to give you that great an answer. (some of the logic/ discussion is pretty convoluted)

I'll reply to what other people directly talk about me though.

...

Does someone want to ask me a direct question? I think that will make it easier for me to get into the discussion.

This is too obviously scummy to be from scum, right?

[DeasVail]

I don't mind a skenvoy lynch, as I have a feeling that she is scum, but I do think that Painted is more scummy. I guess VI is a possibility, but I've never really seen someone who appears so VI-like and isn't scum.

Guttersnipe, content is more important than how concise it is in my opinion. Thank you for your post.

[DeasVail]

But I read it!

[DeasVail]

After a bit of thought, I'm going to:

Unvote: Painted Face of Death
Vote: Skenvoy

I know that Skenvoy does not tend to act particularly scummy as town, whereas Painted might. I also feel that she is not acting as she would as town. I would not consider her to be the type to have such a definite town read on me, and her delay in attacking Painted, even though apparently she finds defending scummy, seems odd to me (regardless of whether Painted is town or scum).

[DeasVail]

uh, Delta: What do you actually think of Skenvoy?

[DeasVail]

The thing is, if it wasn't for meta, I wouldn't be voting Skenvoy. Her play seems off to me.

Because of this, I don't understand why so many are voting for her, thinking she's most likely to be scum. This causes me to doubt that she is scum and think she is town with scum attacking her, but then I realise I'm making too many assumptions and maybe others do actually find her scummy.

[DeasVail]

Delta, who do you think is the scummiest person here?

[DeasVail]

At this point I think I'd support either a Skenvoy or Painted lynch, with [J] probably being my third suspect.

[DeasVail]

At this point I think I'd support either a Skenvoy or Painted lynch, with [J] probably being my third suspect.

At this moment in time, Painted is scummier than Skenvoy.

I agree, but I think Painted is more likely than Skenvoy to be a scummy townie (from what I've seen of Skenvoy)

[DeasVail]

@DV/Delta

How about you do this

ISO painted

And use this information when reading it:
Deas's initial vote was complete bs.

Does it change your view at all?

But all the other votes were complete BS too because it was RVS. Painted makes out that I was accusing Skenvoy as being scum, when it was merely a reason to be slightly more suspicious of her.

Voting me because of it is something I feel scum are more likely to do.

[DeasVail]

Wow Skenvoy, from definitely town to a scum read but why were you so sure of my town-ness beforehand?

[DeasVail]

I don't know what to think anymore! D: Guess it's time for a re-read...

[DeasVail]

Ohh, the post above yours? You obviously didn't notice, I said "Scum is top".

Oh, i thought those were your scum reads from scummiest to less scummy. My bad.

[DeasVail]

What was that point of that sentence? Are you really asking that?

The point: to show my appreciation of him posting and to encourage him to post more.

[DeasVail]

Could we just get IS replaced if he's not going to post anything?

[DeasVail]

Why not just kill IS at night if you want him gone?

[DeasVail]

I see what you did there.

I wouldn't have bothered posting it if that was all there was to it.

[DeasVail]

From my experience, the townies tend to stop trying and scum keep fighting

[DeasVail]

DJ, what is so nonsensical about voting for you?

[DeasVail]

Hmm, I didn't really suspect him before, but I'm really feeling that DJ is scum.

Unvote: (Whoever I'm voting for now)
Vote: don_johnson

[DeasVail]

PoS: Guttersnipe- What was so suspicious about me voting DJ?

My top 3 right now are: Painted, Skenvoy, don_johnson (I'm also wary of Fennin and DeltaWave)

Delta: Is your play-style always this different on MS?

Unvote: don_johnson
Vote: Skenvoy

Skenvoy is the most suspicious to me: but only more than painted because of meta.

[DeasVail]

@Internet Stranger- You totally ruined my invincible feeling! I hope you're happy now... (Maybe it's for the best though ) In any case, I'm certainly not going to do any cheering for you!

Anyway, in response to your comments on me, I don't see myself as pushing wagons at all. I've been moving between different players a lot because I don't want any scum getting by unnoticed and what to get people to talk so I can get reads on them I guess. I'm not really sure what you find scummy about me.

Noramp, I have a strong feeling that Skenvoy is scum mostly because of inconsistencies of her actions that don't match up with what I've seen of her as town. (My initial vote on page 1 has nothing to do with it in case that's not clear) I obviously don't expect anyone to think Skenvoy is scum for the same reasons I do (except perhaps Delta, but I don't know if they know who each other is XD) so no one else would be able to use meta as a reason to vote Skenvoy.

[DeasVail]

Delta, actually I won't explain. They obviously don't like meta much on MS, so I won't let it influence this game any more than it already has.

IS, so you're an RVS lover then? I'm sorry if this is the case.

Definite scum? :O (Delta, are you sure that you and IS didn't swap accs?)

Me flying under the radar means that my actions are deliberate?

My main problem with you is that you are including totally BS reasons for thinking I'm scum. Feeling people out? Yes, I'm trying to work out who's scum. How am I role-fishing? How have I been glam-ing up to people? IS, it almost seems from your post that you're trying to convince me that I'm scum. I think that Skenvoy is scum. What's wrong with that? I don't expect my feeling to convince anyone, as I know I haven't got a proper case.

IS, don't hit me! Can't we just be friends?

[DeasVail]

Delta, so IS points out the obvious and now I'm not looking good?

[DeasVail]

Why are you mentioning meta-based arguments? I'm not arguing anything. I'm just saying that I get the feeling that Skenvoy is scum. You all can believe whatever you like.

What am I supposed to be defending against?

[DeasVail]

DJ, do you agree with IS's assessment of me?

[DeasVail]

Ah, but IS, that's assuming that- not posting an opinion = not having an opinion.

Where would you expect us to be if DJs wall posts were not nonsense and bullshit?

[DeasVail]

In regards to Deasveil, this just came to me (which might make me question my read of him as well) - our meta on one another is based entirely off another site where the pace is a great deal faster, and the play is quite different as well. I might need to go back and iso him with this in mind (although, I still don't think I'll get a scum read on him...)

How did it just come to you? Wouldn't you have put more thought into a town read based on meta?

[DeasVail]

I had other people I needed to concentrate on more, and I wasn't really thinking of you. Although my town read was largely based on meta, your posts wouldn't have read particularly scummy to me were you someone else.

So, you've been aware of this the whole game? Care to tell us why you didn't mention it? As 90% of your suspicion of me is based on meta, surely it would've been relevant to mention that piece of information?

Are you saying that I'm right in suspecting you? If not, then meta is only a distracting influence, so why would you use meta being 90% of my suspicion as a reason to have mentioned it?

Also, I wasn't sure if you wanted your PerC identities revealed and I probably shouldn't have said anything.
I also thought there may have been a chance you knew already, so I didn't want to sound like a dolt after revealing stuff you already knew.

[DeasVail]

I've already said why I didn't mention it.

What I mean is: I can't be sure whether the meta which contributes to my read of you is acting as a help or a hindrance. I have been constantly asking myself if I'm just making stuff up in my head. Maybe I subconsciously want to suspect you and have been tricking myself into doing so. In summary- I don't know whether you're town or scum.

However, I found it strange that you'd say that since 90% of my read on you is meta-based, I should have revealed more meta. If you are town and know how useless and inaccurate my meta-read on you is, why would you say that?

[DeasVail]

Or could it be...

[DeasVail]

What is this thing about a me vs. IS situation? I don't know if IS is scum or not and I don't find him particularly likely to be scum right now.

[DeasVail]

This is the point where I stop confusing everyone with my vote hopping and decide who I'd want to lynch today.

I feel very unsure of Fennin, especially since his reads are very similar to mine, but I'm not very suspicious of him right now. I'd be most happy with a Skenvoy or Painted lynch today.

[DeasVail]

hmmm, the thing is, if you are scum it means I'm most likely wrong in my reads and would be supporting you in getting mis-lynches.

[DeasVail]

I'm not as convinced as you are Skenvoy, and it is your certainty that irks me, especially the enforcement of your town read on me which assumes that Fennin is scum.

Skenvoy, town reads aligning and scum reads aligning are different things (I think), so that point is irrelevant in my opinion.

Other than that, you have good points and questions and I agree that Fennin has been scummy. Still, I can't say that I really suspect him all that much right now.

[DeasVail]

He said he'd post something Monday I believe.

[DeasVail]

Your initial opinion shouldn't be influenced by the general consensus, or who other people suspect. What would be most helpful is you providing what you think and then considering other opinions.

[DeasVail]

Ok, deadline's approaching and I think we need to decide on someone to lynch.

Lynches I want:

Painted
Skenvoy

Lynches I will support (if neither of my favoured lynches is an option):

don_johnson
DeltaWave
Internet Stranger
Metabot
Fennin (maybe, still haven't made up my mind)

[DeasVail]

oh, and add [J] to the list of lynches I will support

[DeasVail]

Er, what I meant is that we need a lynch today, but if anyone who isn't on my list is the leading wagon, I'd rather no lynch than lynch them, so I won't vote for them.

[DeasVail]

I put IS on because if he's left alive he'll probably be all like "Deas is scum!" the whole game which would be totally useless, though scum will probably kill him (if he's town) to throw suspicion on me. (In any case, he could be scum and I wouldn't mind lynching him.)

Metabot doesn't really say much at all and he is kinda scummy- so I wouldn't mind lynching him.

DJ- If he was the wagon I might actually not vote for him, as my suspicion of him has lessened.

DW- Because monk was very scummy in my opinion before replacing out and I do suspect Delta enough so that I would vote for him.

Now, what I don't get is why people suspect me. Can anyone explain how any of my actions means I'm likely to be scum?

[DeasVail]

I put IS on because if he's left alive he'll probably be all like "Deas is scum!" the whole game which would be totally useless, though scum will probably kill him (if he's town) to throw suspicion on me. (In any case, he could be scum and I wouldn't mind lynching him.)

That comment was necessary. For what it's worth, that could be a big pile of WIFOM.

Yes, it would be WIFOU, but it would nonetheless increase suspicion on me.

[DeasVail]

or WIFOY, whichever you prefer

[DeasVail]

This is me right now:



I hope you're all very happy.

IS, just so you know, a wittier alternative would be "DeasFail".

I don't see what's wrong with what I said at all. In my opinion a lynch would be very much preferred to a no lynch and apart from the two that I really think are scum (possibly now 3 with DeltaWave), I named others who I would vote for if they were a leading wagon close to deadline. Anyone not on that list I wouldn't vote for.

Skenvoy, the reason I suspect you is not because of a change of play-style, which I would expect, but because everything you're doing feels sooo off to me this game. Firstly, your town read on me didn't make sense, as you would know I've changed my play-style as scum in the games that I've played scum, so why would you not expect a further change in play-style?
I don't really think Fennin is scum. I think you're scum!

I have considered the idea that you're town many times, so don't imply that I haven't. However, your posts keep making me think you're scum, and it's too hard for me to explain why to everyone else. I might end up trying though.

IS is a lynch I would support because I don't consider him that likely to be town and his tunneling on me is only going to be a distraction. I'M NOT VOTING HIM. ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT I'D RATHER HIS LYNCH THAN A NO LYNCH.

No, IS, I'm just hoping that no one will vote for me. Does anyone have a cake I can hide in? (Even though that wouldn't work anyway XD)

This is a serious question: Why am I likely to be scum? I really don't get it. Voting for lots of people? Really? Not being in the spotlight? Well there are town reasons for not being in the spotlight too. Like, not wanting to get lynched?

Slandaar, why are scum more likely to ignore the PAinted/Skenvoy issue than town?

DW, small chance that I'm town? Are you serious?

[DeasVail]

Mod: Can we please have a vote count?

[DeasVail]

Which is scummy, why? (referring to the omgus) hehehe

Er, so you say something about lurking, but people really stopped posting and I couldn't think of anything to do other than saying "Lynch Skenvoy or Painted!"

And I was doing a lot at the start of the day, but once it got closer to deadline, I'm going to decide on who I think is scum based on the day's events.

[DeasVail]

I don't think so. I was questioning and voting around and trying to consider everyone's posts. I think that Skenvoy and Painted are likely to be scum. When I stop feeling so irritated, I'll try and explain why I suspect Skenvoy from her posts, but I'm not up to it right now.

[DeasVail]

Maybe everyone else will forget about you by time you come back around with this marvelous case on Sken, right? Are you going to rehash that silly meta argument again?

I don't know, but I'm going to explain in the best way I can why Skenvoy seems like scum to me.

[DeasVail]

Gutternipe, do you actually think IS is scum?

[DeasVail]

Hmm, but doesn't that theory rely on the previous targets being scum, so wouldn't it be better to lynch them?

[DeasVail]

I don't really think there's much support for an IS lynch, but a skenvoy or painted wagon or maybe even a Delta one and I'll be right on there.

IS, I don't think your case on me is as solid as you advertise it to be, but I don't think you're scum because of it.

[DeasVail]

Ok, so I'm going to ISO Skenvoy and maybe Delta and say what I think. Delta, can you say why you think I'm scum please?

[DeasVail]

What I think of Skenvoy:

-Doesn't really express much of an opinion PFoD even though I know she thinks defending is scummy and (rightly) suspected me for it in a game we played. Even without meta, her lack of opinion is a bit strange since Painted was the centre of attention.

-Her early meta-based town read on me didn't make much sense to me, because she knows I change my scum play-style.

-Votes Painted because she's "sick of him defending me when I asked him to stop". It's only when I question her, that she says *Defending is something scum do more often than town so I thin Painted is scum*

-The conviction that Fennin is scum seems weird to me, almost feels forced (I acknowledge that this could very well be my imagination)

-Something I was confused by was her saying that I should have wanted to release more meta since that's what my Skenvoy read was based on. If she is town and knew how much of a distracting influence meta has been on my reads, I don't think she is likely to have said this. I think this is more likely to come from scum.

-Recent accusations against me don't make much sense in my opinion

[DeasVail]

What's wrong with being ok with lynching pretty much anyone?

[DeasVail]

Painted: Yes I am angry because people think I'm scum when I'm not and they don't even have good reasons. Please explain my defensiveness and how this and anger make me more likely to be scum.

[DeasVail]

Painted: What's wrong with it if I'm town?

[DeasVail]

Hmm, no. I've already explained myself. Painted, Skenvoy and maybe Delta now are my serious suspicions. I also made a list of other players who I would support a lynch of if none of my top ones were an option because a no lynch is not good at all.

[DeasVail]

I suspect DW mostly because of monk being scummy before replacing out and because of he seems detached from the case against me, but makes useless comments like "DeasVail you aren't looking too good right now" and asking if it will end up being a DV vs. IS situation. IS suspecting me wasn't even a big thing at that stage. And now he can't think of any good reasons to think I'm scum, but still says how there's a small chance I'm town.

[DeasVail]

Painted has actually moved to the top of my scumlist now

[DeasVail]

Why haven't you advocated his lynch then?

[DeasVail]

Wait, DJ, are you saying I was attacking IS?

[DeasVail]

DJ, I'm not that confused, well, maybe a little. Anyway, I don't really think that IS is scum. Lynch Painted or Skenvoy.

Painted, answer my questions please.

[DeasVail]

I don't really want to lynch IS, but I prefer an IS lynch to a no-lynch. My top suspects are Skenvoy, Painted, Delta (not in that order).

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: Skenvoy
VOTE: Painted Face of Death

[DeasVail]

Hmm Skenvoy, how has your read of Painted altered and why?

[DeasVail]

Slandaar, I'm not too convinced about your argument, but not getting too involved in scumhunting is one of the reasons Delta is one of my top suspects.

[DeasVail]

DJ, don't make it sound like a compromise when it's actually just following your orders. I'm not

that

stupid.

If you really want to "compromise", vote for Painted, Skenvoy or DeltaWave. At least I'm giving you three choices, not one.

PEdit: Delta, what I've seen is mostly commentary on other people's case, particularly the one on me.

[DeasVail]

IS, I'm not scum, I'm town. You just have to allow yourself to believe it!

IS, just to be clear, do you think DJ is town?

[DeasVail]

DJ, now that would be a compromise. (I'd prefer a painted/skenvoy lynch though)

As I said already, I'll join the IS wagon if it's that or no lynch or a wagon on someone I find more town, but I think give IS a couple of days and he may just stop thinking I'm scum

[DeasVail]

Slandaar, why not painted?

[DeasVail]

But town can read the thread and not think of anything constructive/helpful to say.

[DeasVail]

Slandaar, are you saying that this contradiction is scummy?

[DeasVail]

The whole within 12 hours thing I find to very picky. I know that I've contradicted myself as town and I don't think it's particularly scummy.

What's really annoying is that at the back of my mind the whole game I've seen Slandaar as manipulative scum and this is encouraging that thought, except I do suspect Delta so I don't know what to think now.

[DeasVail]

I've already said why...

I have a null read on IS and I don't really think he's scum, but it does seem possible to me. Also, I can see him tunnelling on me in the future which will only be a distraction if he's town.

I was half-joking in the post Skenvoy quoted that maybe we shouldn't lynch IS because he might stop suspecting me some day in the future. By days I mean mafia days btw.

[DeasVail]

Fennin is not on my scumlist, but I will vote him to avoid a no lynch if necessary.

[DeasVail]

Oh, and lynch Painted or Skenvoy!!!!!!!!

[DeasVail]

null, leaning town, but this is influenced by my belief that you are scum.

[DeasVail]

My reads of most players are not influenced by you being scum (i.e. not Painted, Delta, IS etc.) Why did you think otherwise?

DJ, I think it's likely to be honest. I don't know what insight I would gain. If one of them dies, I'll reread and decide what I think.

[DeasVail]

Jesus, DV, don't you have a single read that isn't influenced

by me being scum

? What happens when I flip town? How will your reads change?

I'd love to think this was a scum slip, but I don't think I can stretch it that far

[DeasVail]

My read of Fennin would go to null- possibly leaning scum and I'd have a great lack of confidence in my reads.

[DeasVail]

I'm not fixated on Skenvoy and Painted. They are my top suspects.

DW, if you really think there's only a small chance I'm town, why does it seem you're trying to convince me that Slandaar is not town?

[DeasVail]

Slandaar, do you still think Delta is scum considering the reaction to your thoughts? How does your suspicion of him compare to Fennin?

DW, What's so great about me being town?

[DeasVail]

Painted, the point is I don't have a case and it's only ever been a slight suspicion (I did actually mention it on Page 2-4 somewhere)

[DeasVail]

But me being town doesn't change the number of scum there are. I don't understand how you'd consider it good if I'm town. 1. You apparently think I'm likely to be scum so you'd want me to be scum so you're not wrong. 2. I'm obviously pretty hopeless as town, so wouldn't it be much better if I was scum?

Skenvoy, repeat question, how has your read of Painted altered and why? It seems that you would still suspect Painted, but are convinced that Fennin is scum. Is this correct?

Hmmm, Why don't we each say three suspects, then tally up the votes each person has to decide on a pool of 2-3 suspects that we can choose between for the lynch?

I think this is a good idea, as we're getting no closer to deciding who to lynch.

[DeasVail]

Thanks to both of you for providing your cases, but they haven't changed my reads much.

How are we going to decide who to lynch?

[DeasVail]

Unofficial Vote Count:

don_johnson (1): Painted Face of Death,
Skenvoy (1): Fennin
DeasVail (1): Internet Stranger
Painted Face of Death (2): DeasVail, Guttersnipe
DeltaWave (2): Slandaar, don_johnson
Fennin (2): [J], Skenvoy
Slaandar (2): DeltaWave, Noramp

Not voting: Outskirts Oasis, Metabot

I think it's right, but no guarantees.

[DeasVail]

Sorry, missed the part where you expressed the town read on him.

[DeasVail]

What are you suggesting?

[DeasVail]

Well, I remember reading it, I just forgot you changed Painted back to a town read- you must admit, you did seem to go back and forth on him.

What were you hoping gain from your question?

[DeasVail]

...actually, I just wanted to know if you'd read it. It was the first time in the game where I really solidified my reads to any extent. Why did you want to know what I wanted to gain from it?

Because scum often like to ask useless questions to appear town without thinking about what they hope to gain from them.

And I don't think Fennin is scum!

[DeasVail]

*blink* How is that a useless question? I wanted to know if you'd seen my list of reads - I thought it was actually fairly important, because (as I said above) it was the first way I solidified them in any form.

Also, I had good reason to ask the question, as you apparently thought I still had a scumread on Painted, when I'd stated clearly that I hadn't.

I realise it wasn't a useless question. I was just trying to work out if it was

[DeasVail]

My opinion of Fennin hasn't changed much. I don't think he's scum and I wasn't sure if I'd support a lynch on him, but I've decided now that I will support a lynch on him because I think there's enough of a chance that he's scum and he isn't too active anyway. (And I'm starting to think that maybe it's possible you just might be town)

I still prefer a Painted/Skenvoy/DW lynch though, so only if I know none of those are an option.

[DeasVail]

Ok, that's it. I'm going to decide on everyone's suspects/lynch-targets and thus our lynch pool (limiting to 3 per person)

DeasVail- Painted, Skenvoy, DeltaWave
Slandaar- DeltaWave, Fennin, Skenvoy (Wasn't sure whether it should be skenvoy or me for 3rd, but obviously I don't want to be lynched)
Skenvoy- Fennin, Metabot, Noramp
Guttersnipe- Painted, Skenvoy, IS,
Painted Face of Death- don_johnson, DeasVail
Outskirts Oasis- Skenvoy
Noramp- IS, Painted, Slandaar
Metabot-
Internet Stranger- DeasVail, don_johnson
Fennin- Skenvoy, Painted, don_johnson
don_johnson- IS, DeltaWave, Fennin
DeltaWave- Slandaar, DeasVail, Painted
[J]- Fennin

So, top ones are

Skenvoy (5)
Painted (5)
Fennin (4)

and also me if Slandaar still suspects me.

I may have made a mistake with the suspects or counting but I'm thinking Skenvoy, Painted, Fennin is our lynch pool

[DeasVail]

Well I almost got it right! I don't think IS can be in the lynch pool though.

Oh, I think in her reads DJ was leaning scum and you were scum.

[DeasVail]

Noramp, I did that before her latest post though, so maybe leave Skenvoy at two suspects?

No, if in doubt, I'll choose the option that doesn't get me lynched. And anyway, I start breaking my own rules if I let Slan have 4.

[DeasVail]

So, when I say "I'm going to decide on everyone's suspects/lynch-targets and thus our lynch pool"- you assume it should be objective?

[DeasVail]

*presented as objective* rather

[DeasVail]

It's obviously not a good replacement for people re-posting subjects, but I thought it would give us a good idea of what the lynch-pool should be.

I don't have the right

I didn't see guttersnipe's list until after I posted it and took who he expressed the most suspicion of before it.

[DeasVail]

*suspects, not subjects *facepalm

[DeasVail]

Skenvoy:

[DeasVail]

I didn't see yours either Skenvoy...

[DeasVail]

Gutter why do you suspect me?

[DeasVail]

I'm loving your leading questions Skenvoy

I did, and I saw Guttersnipe's list, but didn't want to change anything because I'd already spent too much time on it, and I didn't remember him saying much about the ones that weren't on my list anyway.

So now you can all get excited and point out my contradiction and lynch me. Yipee!

[DeasVail]

Lol 4CoS at Painted for such a ridiculous comment on something that I already explained. If you actually bothered to ISO Skenvoy like I did you will see why Painted.

[DeasVail]

FoS on everyone who doesn't take everyone seriously. I'm looking at you, gutter. And yes, I'm seriously FoSing Gutter.

Well I think I was pretty accurate in my suspect lists (considering I limited each person to three). If you'd like to provide possible theories as to how I was being manipulative with it, then please go ahead.

I don't really like insulting people, gutter. That's not how I do things (OMG I'm obvscum now) but if that's how you think things should be done, then fine.

Well I know it won't change anything, but I will say that I didn't mean to say that I didn't see Gutter's post until after I posted. I meant until after I started doing my post, but I don't expect you to believe me, so whatevs.
Please tell me how it's so scummy of me though. I've seen this kind of thing more in town than scum to be honest (There I'm being honest. I must be town!)

Clarifying: I didn't mean to manipulate anything with my post and thought I was being pretty obvious that it was limited because not every single player is an alt of mine (or are they?). If you can come up with how I might've been manipulating with it, please do.

Painted, you're actually right! I don't know why Gutter FoS'd me for that post!

[DeasVail]

4 Claws of Suspicion btw

[DeasVail]

I was talking about the 4 cans of spam.

[DeasVail]

Painted, I'm sorry you're confused, but I'll give you a piece of information that will make sense of it all.

Spoiler:

Skenvoy is scum.

PEdit: I don't get the first paragraph. I'll read after I post this and try and make sense of it. Regarding that "manipulation", it's not like Slandaar obviously suspected me more than you from his posts and I actually mentioned that I would be among the top suspects too if I was Slandaar's third. (It was actually intended for people to consider and correct) In any case, as town, I know that I shouldn't be lynched so why would it be necessarily scummy?

[DeasVail]

Skenvoy: I said I didn't see them until after I posted, then I said I saw them in the preview, then I said I didn't mean what I said first.

[DeasVail]

Ok, that's it. I'm going to decide on everyone's suspects/lynch-targets and thus our lynch pool (limiting to 3 per person)

DeasVail- Painted, Skenvoy, DeltaWave
Slandaar- DeltaWave, Fennin, Skenvoy (Wasn't sure whether it should be skenvoy or me for 3rd, but obviously I don't want to be lynched)
Skenvoy- Fennin, Metabot, Noramp
Guttersnipe- Painted, Skenvoy, IS,
Painted Face of Death- don_johnson, DeasVail
Outskirts Oasis- Skenvoy
Noramp- IS, Painted, Slandaar
Metabot-
Internet Stranger- DeasVail, don_johnson
Fennin- Skenvoy, Painted, don_johnson
don_johnson- IS, DeltaWave, Fennin
DeltaWave- Slandaar, DeasVail, Painted
[J]- Fennin

So, top ones are

Skenvoy (5)
Painted (5)
Fennin (4)

and also me if Slandaar still suspects me.

I may have made a mistake with the suspects or counting but I'm thinking Skenvoy, Painted, Fennin is our lynch pool

I was only trying to be helpful with this post as I and DJ had already suggested that people say their suspects and it was just getting ignored so I thought I'd work out who people's suspects were and come up with a possible lynch pool. I thought I was obviously open to corrections and I didn't think that the whole idea of me deciding who people's suspects would be taken so seriously, but my mistake.

And Sorry Painted, Gutter told me not to take you seriously. (Btw one of the answers is in bold above)

A small part of Gutter's FoS on me was taking you seriously by 4CoSing you, so if I had actually meant 4 cans of spam it would mean Gutter's FoS was void, but of course, I didn't actually mean 4 cans of spam.

[DeasVail]

Also I have a question to those suspecting me for my contradiction- What benefit was there for me if I was scum and intentionally lying about not having seen gutter's post.

[DeasVail]

I think it's pretty obvious now that the lynch pool includes me, but 4 is too many I think, unless everyone thinks I'm scum now.

I think that DeasVail, Skenvoy, Painted, Fennin are the top suspects (correct me if I'm wrong), so maybe everyone should vote for one of us at least?

The spoiler is what I said about Painted in post 201. I also generally felt that he wasn't genuine, especially his suspicion of me early day 1 and him starting to think that Skenvoy was scum seemed like compensation for the defending. I could also see Slandaar and Painted perhaps both being scum, but that's leaping a bit far. Most of my suspicion comes from early game and although there's not much that I find really scummy in his recent play, there's not much that makes me think he's town either and post 508 is something I find scummy as I don't think it's true.

Spoiler:

Why I think Painted is scum:

- Post 31: Painted votes me, presenting three reasons which makes it look as if his vote is completely justified while most of it consists of complaining about my vote on skenvoy, which has nothing to do with my likelihood to be scum. (Note that he mentioned my lack of immediate vote justification as scummy) If the purpose of the vote was to question my actions, why did he present a) b) c) as if he had a case on me being scum? If he really thought I was scum, why is it based on such silly reasons? I think this indicates scum because it seems Painted was more concerned with attacking someone for the sake of attacking them (and looking town) than he was for whether I might actually be scum or not.

- Post 38: An example of where Painted responds to my description of his actions as "overreacting" and "nitpicking" by questioning how my actions are any different. If he seriously suspected me of being scum, why would he defend himself by saying *well what I'm doing is no different from what you're doing*. Much more likely imo to be scum saying *well you're town and you're doing the same thing as me, so how am I scum* Additionally, the incorrect accusations indicate a lack of attention to my posts and reasoning, considering I was his top suspect.

- Post 45: Well now there's nothing wrong with me voting without immediate justification (pointed out by DJ) Reasons for voting me don't make much sense

- Post 47: No read at all on Skenvoy. Well, in that case, why not let her defend herself so we can try to work out whether she's scum or not? I think town are more likely to realise this than scum.

- Post 62: Dismisses what DJ says by saying he's either scummy or VI, when I didn't see anything to indicate that. Accuses him of confusion and misinformation. Painted just not responding well at all to suspicion on him. Recurring theme in painted's posts- tends to define me by my vote on Skenvoy even though I jumped off it pretty quickly when I found painted suspicious, seems to feel the need to continue his suspicion of me to not look scummy, so perhaps focuses on my vote on skenvoy which was such a small section of the game to sustain his suspicion on me. "looking at what's happened since [the skenvoy vote] I'm suspecting DV"- well that's strange considering all he has been able to mention about me that's apparently scummy is the skenvoy vote. Misrepresents my vote on skenvoy (weird coming from someone who complains about being misrepresented. If they truly felt they were, they'd more likely to try not to do it to others)

- Post 65: Still the focus on Skenvoy, explaining her actions even though he doesn't think she's town and doesn't actually know her reasons.

I can't really be bothered saying much more now (at this point in the ISO, I give up and think to myself: Well he might be a really scummy townie, but there's no question that he's really scummy)

[DeasVail]

@Gutter, According to the rules of my suspect list thing, I couldn't give you 5 suspects, so I chose them based on who you seemed to suspect most before the list, so when I saw your list, I wasn't too fussed. If you want to go with a plan similar to mine, you can correct what I decided were your suspects.

@everyone If you're going to go with my lynch pool, vote for one of the four, as I don't really see the lynch pool changing. If you're not going to go with my lynch pool, help us work one out.

[DeasVail]

Mini 1266 Day 1 Official Lynch Pool:

Delta/DV/Fennin/Sken

(I do not like lynch pools, they are too easily manipulated by scum)

I don't know how else we're going to get a lynch.

Those are your top suspects :O

I think Painted is suspected by more people than Delta.

[DeasVail]

also, IS, I need you to SHOW me where DV's posting style changed.

Excuse me?

So, after IS presents his case on me, you say that it's a good case and becomes (I think) the main reason for your suspicion of me and even afterwards when people were saying I was lurking, you disapproved of them not focusing on IS's initial case on me.

Now, are you actually saying that you didn't know what IS was referring to and didn't actually understand the case?

[DeasVail]

According to the wiki, it's apparently likely that a neighbourhood of 3 will contain one scum, but I don't know if we can use that for scumhunting.

My read of Noramp is currently slightly more town than IS or [J], but I wouldn't know who to think as more likely scum out of those 2.

"Chances are reasonable" =/ "extremely likely

[DeasVail]

DJ, how could Skenvoy be a VI?

[DeasVail]

Are neighbourhoods completely random? I mean, not just with the people in them, but also the roles?

How would the answer to this question benefit the town?

[DeasVail]

Unvote: Painted Face of Death
Vote: DeltaWave

Delta, as far as I see it, knowing what kinds of roles neighbours can have is not something that would impact on our ability to find scum and would actually be more useful to the mafia.

[DeasVail]

Noramp, what did you think of Skenvoy's question and Delta's response to my question?

Also, who do we have to decide between for the lynch?

[DeasVail]

ugh, what Noramp meant was that neighbour isn't a role. Noramp is just part of a neighbourhood. His role is something else (e.g. vanilla townie, doctor etc.)

[DeasVail]

Of course Neighbor is a role. Check the Wiki page if you're not clear on this. How could it not be a role? It gives you the ability to talk to other people privately. Do you think Mason isn't a role either?

"Vanilla townie" generally means someone who has no special ability, so Noramp couldn't be a VT if he's telling the truth about being a Neighbor.

Well I don't know then, but IS can easily confirm or deny it.

[DeasVail]

How can you tell between town VIs and scum VIs?

[DeasVail]

DJ, I don't actually know what the case on IS is, other than something to do with not playing like town.

Also, you're missing something. If Noramp is scum, the advantage to claiming is looking more town (to you anyway).

[DeasVail]

I'm not actually so suspicious of Painted now for some reason. Still suspicious, but not as much as I was, say, 24 hours ago, which is really weird.

Anyway, I'll stay on Delta for now.

[DeasVail]

Actually, I'm changing my read of Painted to null, although I'm feeling a little high right now, so I'm not sure how I'll feel about Painted tomorrow morning :S

[DeasVail]

Oh, ok, that's cool. I'm also getting this weird feeling that gutter is scum for some reason, but I'm not going to trust it too much. Still, I'll be keeping an eye on him XD

[DeasVail]

Welcome Captain! Thanks for replacing into the game with so many pages and don't worry if your read isn't all that thorough.

[DeasVail]

Painted, you were defending Skenvoy. I don't think you can argue out of that one.

[DeasVail]

I find ambiguity to be more town than scummy, Painted.

[DeasVail]

It's so hard to get a lynch! D:

[DeasVail]

Factual opinion? What do you expect from me?

IS, you're just building yourself up for disappointment. I really hope that DJ is scum now so that you don't feel completely dejected when the game ends. Also, if you don't change your target, I'm afraid DJ will order everyone to vote for you, which would risk your lynch (and also totally disprove your "DV and DJ" are scumbuddies hypothesis), so I really do recommend changing your vote so you can cheer for your dream scumteam a little while longer.

[DeasVail]

Who here would actually prefer a lynch over a no lynch?

If you would, then at least vote for someone with at least 2 on the wagon. NOW!!!!

Also, has anyone other than me requested an extra 24 hours since the last vote count?

[DeasVail]

Thanks pacman!

[DeasVail]

But I did too O_o

[DeasVail]

I'm not going to vote IS now that I know we don't need a majority to lynch.

I can't really make up my mind about Painted now. I'd say null-leaning scum, but I consider Skenvoy and Delta stronger scum reads.

Slandaar, why did you ask for a super quick sken lynch as opposed to a Delta or Captain (Fennin) lynch?

[DeasVail]

Ugh, after skimming through their posts, I have null reads on both Painted and Fennin/CG. Any chance of a Skenvoy/Delta lynch?

[DeasVail]

DJ:
How is Painted playing horribly? How is he so detrimental to the town as you say?
And the whole newb things seems it could be a way to pretend that you're town- trying to come across as sincere townie perhaps?
By the way DJ, you did fail to mention your scum record, so you shouldn't be so mean to us newbs.

Now that I've totally destroyed any chance of DJ and I being scum together :

Slandaar, please answer my question about wanting a super quick skenvoy lynch.

Delta, interesting how you question that. Seems almost like scum desperately trying not to lurk and making a nonsensical post.
And in response, I'm not going to have any say on who's lynched if I'm not on a popular/accepted bandwagon.

Pedit: That's exactly what it seems like you're doing Delta, including silly points like "are townies supposed to like quicklynching" when it was only because it was close to deadline really makes it look like you're trying to mislead.

[DeasVail]

DJ

Wow, didn't expect such a long response, especially to (3), which wasn't a proper point of mine at all.

I don't understand why Painted should have accepted his fate rather than lynch a possible power role because if he's town he knows he is and sees CG for example as possible/likely scum so he should argue that someone else should be lynched instead. What about the offchance that they are scum? (or do you know that they are town?)

[DeasVail]

It's Wagon Time!!!

UNVOTE: DeltaWave

VOTE: don_johnson

So who do you actually think is scum? (as opposed to who you think should be lynched)

In case anyone is missing it, this is totally bussing.

[DeasVail]

Skenvoy: I thought you were convinced that Fennin was scum. Or was that just part of your scum tactic?

[DeasVail]

I'm not convinced anyone's scum

.

I really don't know to be honest...

[DeasVail]

DJ, the problem I see is that you're sticking to the whole "no lynch is bad" thing without actually considering the situation.

Place yourself in Painted's situation assuming that he's town. He doesn't want a mislynch so thinks that a no lynch would be better, failing to consider the likelihood of him being lynched anyway the next day, with nothing but night-kill WIFOM to ponder.

This doesn't make Painted a horrible player that must be lynched, yet it's all you're focusing on. How is he?

[DeasVail]

Why didn't you put CG/Fennin on the first "side"?

And what you can think now is that separating groups of players into teams is pointless.

[DeasVail]

DJ, the way I see it, there are a number of different aspects of mafia in which one may be skilled at. Being unskilled in one does not make someone unskilled in another, which is what you are suggesting is the case with Painted. How are we supposed to know his reads aren't correct?

Also, you seem to think I'm town. Why is this?

Also, I suspect Painted more than IS.

Uh, Skenvoy how am I misrepping you? If you're referring to me saying "teams", I could've said "sides". What's the difference? And you used "team" in your post anyway.

PEdit, you're reducing people to their play-styles, not whether they're likely to be scum or not in this game. I can see where IS is coming from regarding you. "Notice similar things I notice"? "cooperative" So if you're town, whether we win or not should be entirely dependent on whether you are right or wrong?

[DeasVail]

Just to everyone: I still really think Skenvoy is scum, so could we please lynch her?

[DeasVail]

Well, if you want me to....

UNVOTE: don_johnson

VOTE: Skenvoy

[DeasVail]

Why would a town player do that? If they know they're town they may not think they should respond to the case against them and often you think someone is scum not because of concrete evidence.

At the moment, I still think that Skenvoy is scum, Delta would be my 2nd suspect.

For me, IS is null-town, while you and Painted are null-leaning scum.

[DeasVail]

Mod: Could we have an update of when the deadline is (if it hasn't already passed)

DJ, unless I'm mistaken, you're still voting Painted. Just thought I'd let you know since your posts gave me the impression that you thought you were voting IS.

[DeasVail]

What attempts?

[DeasVail]

"IS outright ignoring countless attempts to substantiate his claims"

I have no idea what this means :S

Who is attempting to substantiate IS's claims?

[DeasVail]

Oh, sorry I misunderstood. I don't see it as making him more likely to be scum or town really. You could say town would be more likely to back up their claims so that they can discuss their opinion more easily, but you could also say that scum would be more likely to back up their claims to avoid being attacked for a lack of compliance.

I don't know really, I just see IS as most likely town for some reason.

[DeasVail]

Why are you so inactive in this game?

[DeasVail]

There's a bit over 4 hours now I think.

UNVOTE: Skenvoy

VOTE: Metabot

[DeasVail]

Wait, the problem is, what information do we get if he's lynched and flips town?

I'd rather a Painted lynch for this reason.

UNVOTE: Metabot
VOTE: Painted Face of Death

[DeasVail]

Scumvoy I love it!

[DeasVail]

I prefer a painted lynch over a meta lynch.

[DeasVail]

Noramp, unless I'm missing something here, your vote on me is based on the assumption that IS is scum.

IS, what do you think of Noramp's vote on me?

[DeasVail]

Metabot's probably not even looking at this game at all