Mini 1310: I Got My Eye On You Mafia (Game Over!)

[ActionDan]

Woot! I submitted this as the crash was happening. I realized something was wrong when it took so long to submit, so I copy-pasted it into notepad.

UNVOTE:

Vijay, your last post sounded incredibly genuine, sincere, and townie. It also borders on AtE, but it's the kind of masterful AtE that I'm weak to. I'm going to believe you. I still think your attacks on Lucky were based off of newby mistakes, not scummy ones.

Do me a favor and believe me when I say that Rylai is not scum this game.

The rylai wagon is made up of people seemingly voting Rylai for "pressure," not for being scummy. Also feels like Kondi and Delta are prospecting the wagon, Kondi more-so with some dumb insincere "reaction test."

I am not impressed with Glass's play not least for telegraphing an attack on Rylai.

You sir, are mistaken. I do not even own a telegraph.

Your case on vijay = beating a dead horse. It's all been said before. No need to tread over the same ground multiple times. Is there anything about vijay you find scummy besides the reasoning for his fakehammer?

Beating a dead horse? The only other two people who have had similar complaints are Rylai and yourself. I'm not counting Otto since he has a different theory entirely. And let me ask you Glass,

do I need to find anything else about Vijay that's scummy?

Because you certainly didn't when you voted him.

Otto is being crazy for thinking that vijay was actually trying to hammer, but his vote is in the right spot regardless.

I probably should have been clearer. I wasn't trying to clear kondi as town. I was just encouraged by the success of the fake hammer.

I do not buy it for a second. "Hey, this gambit worked in clearing someone as town in another game, so instead of using it to try and clear someone I am going to use it to try and make scum attack me." And it is bs that you think that scum are going to miss the gambit and attack you for it because if scum didn't notice it was a fakehammer neither would town. In fact, scum is more likely to notice the fakehammer. And in that case town would also attack you for it.

VOTE: vijay
L-2

istark is still scum. Asking random questions without reasoning is him trying to look like he is scumhunting without actually doing anything. But he can be lynched tomorrow.

I am also getting a gut scumread from dan, but I don't have anything on him except for a few lame attacks on vijay.

@DW
Is kondi scum?

ISO me and find out.

Try to policy lynch kondi followed by tons of nothing followed by attacking delta for not producing any content. What. Regardless, ice is prob-town.

That thought process should be no less valid now then it was then, yet you have abandoned your vijay read with no explanation to go after Rylai, the person who questioned Vijay using this line of reasoning in the first place, one that you had hitherto agreed with. Similarly, I can't reconcile how you are ok with Otto since "his vote is in the right place" but are not willing to reach out and do the same for Rylai.

Furthermore, your Iso itself reveals that your stances are very non-commital. All the questions you have asked don't really lead to anything besides enabling chatter that's easy for you to respond to.

VOTE: Glass

As of now, who do you think is scum?

VOTE: Glass

Lospy, Rylai, and I think Malthusis are town. Lucky I *thought* was town but needs input. Vijay I hope is town.

I never liked Kondi or Delta.

That about sums up my feelings.

[ActionDan]

I r here.

I thought I would wait until everyone showed up.

Glass I never suggested you called Otto scum? I meant if you are ok with Otto's vote, why not be ok with Rylai's?

[ActionDan]

VOTE: actiondan

Yes, you did:

Similarly, I can't reconcile how you are ok with Otto since "his vote is in the right place" but are not willing to reach out and do the same for Rylai.

I meant if you are ok with Otto's vote, why not be ok with Rylai's?

That is not at all why I am (was) voting rylai...

Deltawave's claim is starting to sound bullshit. However, I am not willing to lynch him today. Why?
1) This is a closed set up. We have no idea what the set up is. Sure, there may be cops because of the theme, but I'm not gonna believe it without a claim or some flips. Same thing with a miller.
2) What if he flips town who doesn't know how to deal with a miller claim? Where do we go from his flip? His ISO is so bare, there's really nothing to go on that. We'd basically be in the same position on D2 because of lack of connections from our lynch target.
3) He claimed miller. He's basically set up for a policy lynch before Lylo. I do not that want day to be D1.
4) I saw someone else do this kind of weird miller claim in another game.

God. Another scummy person. So you don't want to lynch someone who you think is lying about being miller because...
1. He miggghhttt be miller
2. We wouldn't have anything to go on for D2. BS. We have the same amount of info as if anyone else was lynched, looking over what dead people said isnt very productive, its better to look at how people attacked the dead-town and the wagon. Also, people have (or at least should have) suspicions regardless of the flip.
3. You dont want to policy lynch someone d1? You want to policy lynch them later? wtf?
4. There was a miller claim in another game.

This is the main reason I am (was) voting for him. There were a few minor other scummy things though.

But regarding actiondan: his whiteknighting of rylai is ridiculous, and since they know each other I think it is more likely that actiondan is scum and trying to buddy up to rylai than anything else. His chainsaw defense ultimatum doesn't help his case either.

That was me wondering why you were ok with Otto VOTING vijay but not ok with rylai VOTING vijay. I never implied that you thought or should have thought that Otto was scum. Seriously, read that sentence twice .

You said much eariler that you agreed with Vijay's case against Rylai, so don't give me that BS that you are voting Rylai because of the above paragraph. (Which incidentally is :bad logic: on Rlai's part, but since no vote was attached, it isn't particulary scummy)

However you still haven't said why your suspcion of Vijay vanished into thin air.

Your vote on me is absurb. I will defend my town reads vigorously from being mislynched. Suddenly I'm buddying the guy you think is scum, is that right? (btw, Lopsy is more of a town read than Rylai, by the slightest bit)


My activity will be sparse for the week, but hopefully monday I'll be getting in a one post/day routine again.

[ActionDan]

Dodging. I don't have the time I need. waiting for glorious Monday!

[ActionDan]

Let me ask you then Iceman, do you disagree that the attacks on you coincided rather nicely with the decrease of pressure on V2V? Do you think the attacks on you were both valid and justified? Do you have any reason to feel those that attacked you are possible scum? I'm too lazy to crack the pages back open and look for myself what your reaction was so I'll just ask.

I have no recollection what happened there, and I can't access the file on Mediafire.

And yet you dare insult Korlash. I expected that demeaning and discrediting shit from Scum Glass, but it's really annoying coming from you. All the do-nothing one-liner lurkers can't all be scum, and yet you think you have the right to boo-hoo someone who is actually applying their brain to this thread. While this is magnanimous in itself, it's on the level of a godsend if you consider that Korlash is doing A+ work. He's 100% on with Kondi and as to his reasoning on V2V wagon I was having similiar thoughts except I was getting the feeling that Rylai's wagon was the V2V replacement. (Of course I now I don't think Vijay is scum anymore based on his response to me in the archived pages [pretty sure Malthusis asked me about how I changed my read on Vijay and this post applies])

I thought I might as well cheer this good fellow up, it was a little heartbreaking to see the self-dejection even if made in jest.

More concerning Glass/Rylai Monday.

I'd really want BBM, rylai, Delta, Lucky, Ice, and Kondi to post something, like a few scum reads.

[ActionDan]

Glorious Monday came and went and I'm exhausted from the full day's events. (I had time earlier to post something but ZzzzzZZ) Anyway I'll post more fluently tuesday.

Quick stuff: BBmolla's entrance is cool with me for the most part. I vehemently disagree with his ill-feelings towards lopsy though.

Korash is amazing. Like. I really don't know what to say here. That's pretty much why I was indignant with Glass voting Rylai. It was arbitrary and without cause despite Glass's focus on bringing attention to Rylai's posts. Malthusis was at least giving out observations that tried to pinpoint why something seemed scummy instead of "that's scummy" which is what glass at best could produce.

As for Vijay it was this post that made me stagger:

@ ActionDan: I see where your coming from. I really do. It's the small game right? But see the thing is, it gets really awkward when you don't see where im coming from. The success of the fakehammer wasn't the conftown, although that was pretty nice in that situation. I can't say anymore because the game is still going. However, I appreciate the effort and I'll be honest you read as town who has just misinterpreted my intentions, both in this game and the other one.

And with regards to scum motivation, you do realise luckyjt did not post anything of consequence during that time? And im not trying to convince lucky of his own scumminess, I've tried already. i should be and was trying to convince you guys so we could lynch my scumread.

The post got to me. I saw the light! Well I've been burned before but this post did not seem faked. It still doesn't but perhaps Vijay can expand a bit further. I always wanted to know what was the supposed success of the fake-hammer and how it applied to this game in Vijay's mind. I have an idea but the words should come first from Vijay.

Otherwise Vijay has done scummy stuff. Like the case on Rylai. And lucky is who again? out of sight out of mind, besides that he should be still scum to vijay.
I'm ok with his lynch but I feel Glass/Kondi are just as good if not better choices.

Im dissipointed Rylai has lurked enough to get replaced. it's his meta now to lurk inconsistantly in his recent games and its his apathy for the game itself that's causing it imo.

BBmolla, why do you think Glass is town?

[ActionDan]

Once my p-set is finished by 4:00, I will devote some time here.

Tuesdays and Wednesdays are not so glorious :/

[ActionDan]

Thursday... Thursday more thursday. I feel bad.

BUT, I got one new read. Istark is town I looked over a game where he flipped scum and the difference is night and day. Also I second whoever said that if there is a "good reason" to lynch delta it's that he has been completely dodgy/inactive/useless and that the miller claim should not sound "bs" unless someone knows specific role info (i.e iceguy) (Still any of Vijay, Glass, Kondi >> Delta lynch)

Why are we thinking of claiming a target for everyone to investigate? Scum could simply kill the target (if town) or there could be scum roles designed to fuck with cops, like framers. Why not let cops cop who they think is scum?

[ActionDan]

I'm a bad person T_T. I didn't get to this yesterday when I had the time. I'll be really really sparse over the weekend, like I was last time out of necessity. Also I have ~2 hours to make this post before I go into recluse-mode.

Om welcome, I have a burning desire to lynch your playerslot but my loyalties are shaken up a bit byour personage replacing in.

Couple of basic things from skimming. First Lopsy I'm dissapoint in your vote for Korlash. Like I'm going "Whhhhhhhhhy". Korlash does think Delta is town, however there is enough of an uncertainty there that a Delta lynch is better than a lynch on anyone else not named Glass, Kondi, V2V. Lospy if you had another vote where would it be (also it would be great if you put it there).

Second. korlash and iStark, you are both town (seriously Korlash is obvtown and for istark just skim through a certain ongoing mini-theme game involving vampires and teenage girl vampire slayers QED.) your arguing with each other has a negatie side effect of cluttering the thread (I only skimmed it).

Thrid. BBmolla I know you are a competent player. I expect you to be able to comprehend the scum-glass perspective and at least tell us if you argee/disagree and why. I didn't mind your reads but there was a lot of wiggle room. Maybe this is me wanting another fountain of sanity in this game, but I'm getting more desperate.

Fourth. Can we like, speed lynch Kondi over Delta if times get tough? Also I swear that I would vig him tonight no matter what if he survives the day.

Fifth. That info Iceguy is holding back should be outted if Delta somehow gets closer to a lynch, or is looking very likely.

Scum Glass case goes here. It's all but been said in my opinion, but I'll do my best to make a complete comprehensive case.

[ActionDan]

Ya, I haven't finished re-reading. I'll be active 3 days before deadline though and I promise to put in all the effort I can.

[ActionDan]

Prod dodging! I'll be back to normal in 4-5 hours. also the CSL wagon sucky. I will argue against this lynch with all I've got left if I have to.

[ActionDan]

checks in.

still got a day. Combo of work + giving priority to another mafia game with 3 days + procrastination got me here.

RD is pretty solidly town. Om and amrun didn't sound that bad coming in tbh. I'm still pretty sure Lopsy is town. His play was very genuine even if he got flustered and overreacted here and there. Rylai is town, his two votes (Kondi--->Vijay) were not nearly as bad people said they were and I'm also using town rylai meta (even tho its very hard to describe this, because it takes discretion in indentifying derpy bad play from derpy bad play with a side of bullshit cases that are used to support a vote [obv this would be the scum scenerio])

UNVOTE:

The more I think about vijay's fake hammer and the ultimate defense given, I keep thinking that the story still doesnt jive with the original 'it confirmed a townie, it was worth a shot.' It's hard to believe that a fakehammer in a 7-p game with 2 scum wherein no one knew it was a fakehammer applies to this game in the context of looking out for scum reactions to a lynch that everyone surely thought would have occured.
a) You never condemed Kondi so it would be hard for people to intake the sudden paradigm shift. b) The hammer's frivolity looked way too obvious.

Vijays play in the later half of D2 seems reactionary and passive. Also

Well I'm suspicious of anybody who keeps pushing the Delta claim as being scum-oriented, but from memory it was IG who started it. His inability(not that harsh, but I can't think of any other word) to outline why Delta's split claim has any scum intent coupled together with the fact that he is adamant about DW-scum makes me read him as scum trying to push a mislynch on somebody who is the next best thing to conftown imo.

This is splitting hairs (however that expression goes). IG was the first because IG claimed role info that suggested Delta was lying

VOTE: Vijay

I'm getting delurious, I pulled close to an all nighter and I need some sleep. Still okay with amrun and ooTN lynches.

[ActionDan]

We could still flash wagon Vijay!

BBm has been bugging me for a while though since barely any specifics about any of the reads were provided

@PR claim and speculation about 1v1s. 1v1 ED1 makes no sense regardless. (If anything VT, but >_>). Let me look into how Kondi treated the early wagon on him.

At this point, even if I'm not lynched, I'll be night killed

I guess Iceguy doesn't have to worry anymore.

[ActionDan]

I was ready to lynch Amrun yesterday after she explicitly claimed cop with precisely the same thoughts as Korlash had in his #448. However, since there hasn't been a counterclaim today, I don't see much other choice than believeing it, despite mafia not bothering killing you over vijay who claimed to have a gimpy town PR.

##Vote: BBmolla

Call it gut.

Up for consideration: OoTN (mostly by virtue of glass), Iceguy (because I don't get what the fuck he's doing).

Treating these guys as more or less confirmed town until further notice: RD, Amrun, Korlash, CSL. With these guys as people I read as town: Lospy, Istark. And this loner who is more neutral but is leaning town anywho: Lucky.

[ActionDan]

If I am a watcher, nobody targetted Korlash,
If I am a tracker, Iceguy visited nobody,

If I am a hider, I climbed under amrun's cat's hoodie, or otherwise Vijay was not guilty.

If I am a fruit vendor than someone has a carrot.

[ActionDan]

*yawn* I'm kinda losing touch with this game. Hopefully real life will end so I can put more effort into here, where it belongs! <3

I'm ok with a lynch on OotN, but BBm had pretty half-ass reads yesterday and flatly could barely provide more than 'vijay is scum'.

I've internalized Korlash's case against amrun and I agree that if Amrun is not a cop, those reasons are all indications of why she isn't (Let me add here that killing Vijay off before Amrun is a strong reason as well to disbelieve the cop claim, and I highly doubt scum left amrun unmeddled with just to try and mislynch her D2 [It might mean scum tried to meddle with her action, busdriver, framer, redirector etc.]). However no one is counterclaiming so letting Amrun live an extra day in case she is the cop makes sense to me.

[ActionDan]

This also makes me suspicious since I believe you're the first person to actually say it. When a 'random' person is nightkilled over a power role, the first person to mention it with any indication that the power role is there-fore scum, is likely scum himself having set this argument up the night before.

Can you point out anyone else who said this earlier in case I missed it?

Vijay wasn't random, he claimed he was a PR in thread >_>. But even besides that, I don't think amrun is scum without a cop counterclaim today. I think the quote above is a bit juvenile frankly

@OotN, I thouht your predessor, Glass was scum. I'm reading yourself as neutral tbh. I'm still thinking BBmolla's slot will flip scum. His reads seemed forced and his distancing from the Mal lynch seemed more self-centered (e.g, "Why you lynch my town reads") and his push for his perfered choice vijay was simply "Vijay is scum, look at his play, why no lynch?" In any case I'm not comfortable with your lynch atm until I reread.

@RD, what's your lospy read?

I feel lucky is town from skimming the last 2 pages. Gut =D!

Also I kind of want Iceguy dead, like not by vig or lynch, just if he had the power to kill himself. His arguments and questioning are not going to lead to anything.

[ActionDan]

Mod, please mark me as V/LA for 4 days

Lucky is town. He was as reactionary on page 2 of the cached pages when votes were being thrown his way in the same manner. This is not some sort of spur of the moment gambit as it is consistant with earlier play.

Korlash, 'juvenile' refered to you pinning me as suspicious for a 'smelt it, dealt it' type argument. I'm saying that Amrun not dying is the strongest reason to disbelieve his claim out of the myriad others (including many that you have brought up, including Amrun's most recent 'I changed my mind!' post ). THAT SAID, I am not willing to lynch him without a counterclaim. It may well come tomorrow when a cop will have 2 results and be more effective.

OotN's reasoning is not all that bad if you think about it, but it's definitely wrong in this case. People like Iceguy posting a Gif to sarcastically call out bad play and let others interpret it is scummy.

[ActionDan]

Welcome MOI. your reputation proceeds you.

I think I'm going to be mostly inactive for the rest of the game because of current circumstances but I intend to finish this game out.

A vote for BBmolla's slot would go here, but Iceguy flipping town after claiming VT while not backing down on Delta's lynch as it was gaining steam with false evidence was mind-blowing.

Then again the new guy didn't seem to think that hard as to why Iceguy was scum when voting.

I'll reconsider scum options when I have more time.

[ActionDan]

I would have liked you to save your results at least for a while

Job

OotN, but I forgot to mention that with 2 cops in the set-up that it's likely scum have both a GF and a framer. Like RedCoyote's aborted game. Voyeur totally makes sense in this perspective.

Of course since the Inno is on me I'd be happy if everyone could believe it as the truth and nothing but the truth *whistles*.

[ActionDan]

I don't really feel a need to claim at this time. I'd like Rban to claim his target of w/e action he did.

Uh. I don't have much else to say besides ...

PRO-DDDDDDD-ODGE

Also weren't we thinking CSL/feifei/ town (late D1 reactions)? I'd rather Lucky be town too. I'm still speculating scum have framer/GF/goon (maybe maybe the GF is a Rber if we give credence to Rban [I'd rather not])

[ActionDan]

N1 target? *neer*

Also death

[ActionDan]

Not to curb your style MOI, but Rban did claim to be roleblocked so if he's telling the truth, then it's possible you may not have seen him go anywhere. Clearly though, you should think Istark is the lair here and there is no excuse for that, so why vote Rban?

If we are lynching anyone, it's gonna be Istark (besides we should lynch the scum that has an active power first anyway)

VOTE: Istark

[ActionDan]

Well, Yeah, I fully believe Om is a town cop, I mean scum *could* have killed Amrun, decided to let Om cop and tried to frame someone hoping Om copped them. The obvious cop target imo was Rban soooo. but yeah, otherwise scum roleblocking him is not likely. I found his claim pre-mature anyway and sensationalist, like a "this is so unbelievable town might buy it" sort of thought process.

I don't mind lynching Rban, but from your point of view Istark is confirmed beyond a doubt. So I am I suprised.

Please note that I'm ruling you out being scum because I'm not sure why'd you'd claim when Rban most likely would be lynched.

[ActionDan]

I give up.

VOTE: RBAN28.

Well played.

I must say that I detects le coaching in the scum QT.

[ActionDan]

Well played.

I must say that I detects le coaching in the scum QT.

Are you saying the scum have day talk? Hmmm *scratches chin* now why do you know this and I don't...

I always assume scum have daytalk besides the newbies. Are you suggesting it's more probable they don't?

But that's besides the point, this claim could have been suggested at night. I am still thinking we should have killed the scum with an active role. >_>

[ActionDan]

He claimed to target Lospy. It was spurned on by RD's instigations so I am presuming that istark paniced and claimed his target for the night. If he was actionless, why would he claim to be a tracker, instead of say, spitting in RD's face and saying 'you got nothing! Ha!'

I bet Istark was truthful about what he could be truthful about (hoped Lospy was a VT) and braced for the worst. The more I think about it, the more I think Istark is the manipulator type role (framer etc.)

[ActionDan]

I'll re-read Friday - Saturday.

Um. I would prefer to be cautious today and have a contingency plan for tomorrow. Om, cool down. If you skimmed the last MotK game you'd realize that arrogance and celebrating victory too fast led to town's defeat. settle yourself down and think a bit.

Istark and MOI, can you tell us if your action flavor resembles Amrun's and Om's (try not to get modkilled)?

Also, I'd love to speculate scum roles today because Om didn't die. And I don't understand why. Literally I was 100% sure Om was a dead duck.

Also with the claimed roles so far scum prolly don't have a RBer... Om wasn't Rbed. They may have a redirecter/busdriver though. Godfather still likely imo.

[ActionDan]

I have had no time to go more deeply into the arguments (and most are repetitive and I saw nothing absolutely convincing) than a skim, but I have mulled around with the claims at least and have a few concrete opinions.

Our lynch today should most definitely be istark. I had a strong desire to see this lynch today and the added guilty by Om reveals more info in the case of istark flipping town.

let's consider that case first.

Senario 1: Istark town

Istark town ---> MoI scum (Istark claimed MoI visited Korlash. No room for redirector manipulator because one scum had to kill and the other had to frame [assuming scum can't double action] [unless Om is scum who in fact submitted the kill but I'm under the impression Om is mod-confirmed cop soooo]

Istark town ---> he was framed => scum have a framer => Moi is not the framer => Moi is the godfather (let us assume a GF exists for while yet) => I am clear via cop investigation (unless I am the framer and framed myself [and annoyingly I can't prove this wrong because according to istark Moi did nothing, and Rban very easily could have submitted the kill leaving the last scum to perform an action]).

With these assumptions in mind, we can pretty easily predict what happens next. (N4 - om dies; D5 Moi lynched flips GF most likely; N5 - I die or CSL dies; D6 - lylo with RD, CSL/ActionDan, lucky. Out of those I would consider CSL town. BBm jumped on that wagon like a wolf pouncing on a lamb dinner, also huge town-tell end of D1. Gut is telling me Lucky is town. so if it's CSL/Lucky/RD ---> lynch RD/Lucky ---> it's prolly RD. If I am in CSL's place I will probably argue in that direction.

Scenario 2: Istark scum


Istark scum => he wasn't the GF (I honestly wonder what he'll flip. [If he really is a scum tracker why would he lie about MOI taking no action?]) => I am not clear.

Istark scum => CSL is not clear because Istark could have submitted the kill easily enough.

Istark scum => MOI is effectively a cop and will most likely be killed N4. Since we are assuming GF I would like Om to investigate RD and test the miller claim. D5 it's going to be Om/RD/ActionDan/Lucky/CSL. I am still considering Om confirmed town and CSL might as well be too. if RD is soon to be investigated as 'Mafia goon' as is claimed I would propose lynching Lucky. If lucky is not scum N5: Om dies, D6: lylo with ActionDan/CSL/RD and I really would be left stratching my head. I'd still most likely think RD is scum over CSL.

So ends my thought experiment.

At present I am a) annoyed MOI wasted his action on CSL. From that alone I would be looking your way still if Istark flips scum and you survive the night. b) I want to revisit RD's miller claim when I have more time. It's a very possible motive for the korlash kill but also It's inconsistant with the cop results. Why would you be revealed as 'mafia goon' while the cop only seems to get Mafia/not mafia? I would prepose MOI and OM direct both their actions on RD.

CSL and Om... please please THINK.

[ActionDan]

@AD - Having OOTN target me is stupid because im going to investigate as scum. Are you trying to say that I am GF who claimed miller or something?

It is not stupid at all. If istark is town you could very well be a framer who fake-claimed miller. If Istark is scum it is possible you are a GF that fake-claimed miller. Do you not agree there is a GF? You seemed happy enough to imply I was a GF earlier today, discrediting the innocent. If we assume GF then any 'innocent' loses it's value doesn't it? Ironically you being a confirmed miller at least would clear you (or at least provide a better clear than any other innocent). since Om was left alive and Korlash was killed I assume scum is not worried about a cop result --- either there is a GF or a framer (or both). We will know after istark flips. Will you investigate as a 'mafia goon' RD?

@Om. STOP. you are going off the god-damn rails. why would you immediately want MOi to be lynched if Istark flips scum? (if istark town then Moi = 100% confirmed scum)

Also, @Om. Please cop RD tonight.

@istark, Om is just like that. It's dissapointing he hasn't employed his brain in another fashion.

Poor Korlash was culled for his brain.

[ActionDan]

ah ok. Sorry, the caps lock is distracting.

anyway If Istark is scum and flips anything other than godfather (and he will if scum), investigate RD.

If Istark is town you'll most likely be dead, but no matter your result just remember there is a framer.

Also in case I die, if anyone votes CSL for any reason I will facepalm. That slot is 100% town.

[ActionDan]

pretty sure the mod wouldn't tell Om anyway.

[ActionDan]

O korlash! I can't wait to sip tea with you in the Graveyard. And maybe play some croquet

[ActionDan]

O yeah, if Istark flips mafia goon, then GF almost assuredly exists => RD is by far the best cop-choice.

[ActionDan]

Here im saying that my role is not "miller" its something else that makes me investigate as "mafia goon". What my role is though explicitly says what my other abilites if any are.

This is why checking this is MOST important.

[ActionDan]

Also, Moi, I don't care who you care to follow as long as it isn't CSL again (well, obviously not Om either plz).

[ActionDan]

G2g now.

[ActionDan]

I'm assuming goon-something-GF where iStark is going to flip as 'something' (if scum). That leaves a GF. Exactly why do you think that checking your claim is unreasonable when a GF is highly likely? Also did you forget that you claimed to come up as 'Mafia goon'? Om will check for that too. Any other innocent Om gets can be speculated away by the assumption of a GF. you are the only one who Om can get a reasonable clear on. (which ironically happens if you turn up as 'Mafia goon')

Why exactly are you resisting this?

[ActionDan]

*waits for MoI result*

That mod flavor WIFOM is so painful.

[ActionDan]

You read the flavor?

Egghead.

:/ I cherish the flavor of all games I play.

[ActionDan]

Btw RD, I re-read the thread last night, and I think Lucky is most likely scum.

I have no idea why MOI is alive though.

[ActionDan]

little things really (I'll go back and pick out a few things in the next couple of hours as I do a physics P-set, but I'll have time Thursday to make a more comprehensive case.). Dropped by Istark and yourself (BBm and Mb don't give much info into anyone). I don't really find your play overtly scummy though.

Feirei is not scum. Feirei is not scum. Feirei is not scum. Feirei is not scum. <---- Repeat that a few times so it sinks in.

cuts. Um I think MOi is way more likely to be scum over Feirei (and I think Moi has a small chance of being scum anyway). I was hoping Moi would die in the night because Moi wasn't absolutely confirmed.

Since unless Moi wants to get into a 1v1 I suppose I need not hold back.

I'm a VT

'popcorn' to CSL even though they already claimed.

[ActionDan]

How are you so sure, I dont think Feirei has posted anything for a while now. How do you know this? And I also dont trust MOI but it would have been very risky for Moi to have sacrificed 2 scum buddies.

BBmolla and Istark were content to vote CSL/feirei close to deadline D1 (BBm was 2nd, Istark was 4th). That looked like mislynch 101 material, not a D1 bus. Also claiming VT to try to save amrun from a lynch, while naive, did not seem like a calculated Scum move.

I will agree I can't easily see Moi saccing 2 buds (well honestly BBm/RBAN was dead in the water anyway but..) when it wasn't necessary.

cut yes exactly

[ActionDan]

I'm more confident in Lucky scum.

K'
Any idea's on his possible scum buddies?
I can't seem to figure out any tbh.

This is by far the strangest post in the game. Usually I don't put much faith in 'slips' but this was where I perked my ears up. It feels more like a taunt more than a real slip, but the implication is the same. E.g.:

'If lucky is scum, who are his buddies?' asks Istark. (Istark, aside --- "teehee, he won't be able to answer this so easily, because I'm one of them" )

I'm going dig up a few other posts, but I feel this should be in front and center.

[ActionDan]

Lucky post #564 - feels off. He called out the CSL wagon before and shouted out that he thought scum were bandwagon hopping en mass. "I thought CSL was getting lynched yesterday" sounds apathetic where there should have been more vigor.

Istark 604 + 608 - Vote on Om is sudden and there is little discussion of Lucky's wagon besides "@Lucky, your last few posts made no sense." I think this is willful ignorance (honestly I could say this about all their interaction, it's keep to a minimum, and where they do directly address each other it's chatty, no real honest questioning etc.)

[ActionDan]

On the flip side RD, I thought #893 was scummy for going with Istark as scum tracker (felt like confirmation bias), but otherwise I haven't seen much else after rereading that worries me.

[ActionDan]

Thinking about it, I kinda of hope Moi visited me, since I could truly be 100% clear then. Ok I'll going to work on my P-sets.

[ActionDan]

Obviously I am the scum miller ninja vig

I shall now proceed to lurk. (For a day then I'll talk)

I can't wait to enter my first MS graveyard!

[ActionDan]

"Everyone refresh my memory – neither of the Cops ever scanned Lucky, correct?"

Correct. I wouldn't use that post against him though.

[ActionDan]

Actually thinking about it, the strangest thing this game is iStark claiming to track Moi nowhere N2 and Moi countering that.

As much as POE incriminates Lucky in about 3000 different ways, cases are always nice.

[ActionDan]

Perhaps the non-confirmed town lurkers need more motivation.

Here's a debriefing as to the state of the game.

Spoiler:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=442J1ASPseQ

[ActionDan]

Request:

since MoI and RD know each relatively well (I think anyway), can you both tell me breifly whether you think the other is playing towards a more or less town meta.

[ActionDan]

^
that's pretty good.

[ActionDan]

RD, would you really think as scum that CSL was lynchable?

[ActionDan]

I'll never lynch CSL ever.

Px

Cystal maiden is a bro

I appreciate the dialogue between you guys, I am holding myself back from joining though (well I don't have much time anyway, but) because I want your thoughts not to be influenced by anything I might have to say.

I would like Lucky to participate a bit more.

[ActionDan]

The only person who's won the game if they are scum is CSL... or me (it's ok guys I'm town and will die tomorrow. I'm totally scum though if I survive. totally.)

Um Lucky. *cough* ah, I'll explain the dynamics of the situation we find ourselves in simply.

me and CSL are town (well CSL not saying anything makes me paranoid but, what can I do. Actually CSL, can you get your butt in here? that would be cool. seriously post anything and I'll be satisfied) *Ahem* so anyway dynamics! We have 3 suspects. You, RD, and Moi. We have 2 lynches available. that means we have to gamble on one of you being town. In light of the above, what does Moi's important town power role have to do with him being immune from a lynch?

[ActionDan]

Moi could I have your theory as to why istark lied about tracking you?

[ActionDan]

If im scum how does this balance? That question goes for AD and MoI too.

I'll answer these kinds of concerns later. Moi can theory this one out first.

[ActionDan]

Hard to decide, I find it.

I will say that I think Istark did track Om night 1. Post 608 is not divorced from Om's claim imo. Istark said he was 'looking for something', he said 'do you have anything to say?' Which unless someone can correct me, feels like he wanted Om to claim his role + action explicitly last night. Possibly to say something like 'oh hey, I is tracker, and Om is telling the truth, town cred get!'

[ActionDan]

Proddodges-

Also... I think Lucky is the last scum. I will mentally sort out Istark's D3 gaffe a bit more. a bit more a bit more.

[ActionDan]

You are all obviously scum for lurking ^_^!

Questions for all!

Would cop-cop-voyeur be considered high or low power? would cop-cop-voyeur-follower be considered high or low power?

would goon-goon-tracker be low/high scum power? [GF or ninja]--goon--tracker?

Could the last scum be more obvious about it?, It would totally save me aggravation, unless it's CSL, in which case fuck. I hope Istark didn't take Buffy to heart and try to bus the hell out of Rylai/CSL/Feifei scum...

[ActionDan]

Gd, why the fuck did Vijay claim to be a gimpy PR.

Fuck
FUCK.

VOTE: Lucky

Korlash died for his sins (aka suspecting Lucky with a passion).
BBmolla tried to protect lucky.
I noted weird shit earlier between Lucky Istark.

then again I don't get why Rban claimed freaking bodyguard out of nowhere.

Lopsy read so town. I can't kill Moi. I can't. I made a mistake with Istark and only based my read on one scum game of his to get a read into his meta. but since that time other scum games of his have come out and I have realized my mistake.

I think the real mystery lies with Istark (damn you) but I have the weirdest feeling, he actually got a result and misread it.

Don't get me wrong, the temptation to hammer is strong. very strong. so strong. Why can't I win this game easily. It would have been so pleasant.

[ActionDan]

Btw Rd, if Moi would flip town, I feel it necessary to mention that my conscience would dicate that you be outed next. Mostly for gut reasons, and the way this day is playing out.

[ActionDan]

before this day is over, I would like to hear what RD and lucky think of eachother as of this moment.

[ActionDan]

also I have never lost a game in which I survived to lylo. I really don't want to start now. (honestly this isn't lylo but it feels like it.)

[ActionDan]

MoI can you elaborate how you came to decide to follow CSL N3? Plus I will wait for your iso's of CSL, rban/Istark/bbm etc.

about power: cop/cop/voyeur by itself isn't really *that* useful. cops were meant to claim close to one another generating theories about sanities + maybe town might have even lynched one of them (yes even with the theme known to be *~cops~*). Voyeur serves to verify cop targets on the off chance. against goon-tracker-[goon,ninja,gf] it barely helps counter scum at all, which is the ultimate purpose of town power (because 10:3 vanilla isn't balanced).

so cop/cop/voyeur is meh.

on the flip side, goon/goon/tracker is low (but for MS site meta, it's fairly standard for some reason). Moi just finished a little italy game where he replaced in as scum and made the same comment in the scum QT, in which he suggested => no cops (he was right).

[ActionDan]

Honestly, I'm thinking along these lines:

Lynch Moi (if town) ---> lynch RD

or Lynch Lucky (if town) -----> continue MOI vs RD knowing one of you HAS to be scum and decide then. I keep flipfloping.

in light of the above I would trade our current situation for RD vs MOI vs ME in 3p lylo if I could. But CSL will definitely live tomorrow. I think.

[ActionDan]

-reads 1004 three times-

._. no way in hell that came from scum.

Problem is, I have a gut town read on MoI, but maybe that's because I haven't eaten anything. More after I get food.

Poor soul never made it to the refrigerator.

Feirei needs a prod

RD, ya I detected that survival instinct throughout the day, I can't fault you for it, it's just slightly selfish if you know what I mean.

[ActionDan]

@lucky,

what led you to think Moi is the most likely last scum?

[ActionDan]

I'd more likely vote for you Lucky if it was RD vs Lucky instead of MOI vs Lucky. just saying.

Please use your own words to reason out why Moi might be scum. or at least why Moi has a better chance of being scum than RD.

[ActionDan]

Now reading iStark's move as newb town.
Unvote: iStark
Why? Because he doesn't get why "lynching you is the only way to confirm that you aren't lying and keeping you out of suspect list" is a terrible reason to lynch someone. That induces the genuine-undecided-town interpretation on the flip-flopping, too.

@iStark: "lynching you is the only way to confirm that you aren't lying and keeping you out of suspect list" is a terrible reason to give to want to lynch someone. Why? Because it applies to every player on the playerlist. Do better.

---

Hmm, I have to choose who on my CoS list to

investigate now

. Let's see...


As much as I'm endeared to this silly style of posting, I don't think Mist Beauty is including enough actual talking points in amongst them. Do I think she is scum? Not yet; I think she is silly neutral. @Mist Beauty: do more analysis so I can read you, 'k?

As for IceGuy, he's off of my not-scumhunting list, but the previous scumtell still lingers.
As for kondi: same. Since we didn't lynch him earlier, the momentum behind kondi-suspicion has disappeared, but I still retain my earlier scumtell on him.
As for v2v: Since the game in reference is ongoing, and v2v's motivation sounds real, I believe him. But when that ongoing game ends, I want to hear him explain it, 'k?

So unfortunately, I'm at a crossroads. One of my suspicions isn't rising above the rest, so I merely have to keep my CoS list and cherrypick the current most-likely-to-be-scum person off of it.
Vote: kondi
This is not based on recent evidence; it's the shadow of his big, hardly-mentioned-anymore scummishness on the earlier pages. Also no kondi it's not a policy lynch stop accusing people of that.

Obv crumb by Lopsy D1.

[ActionDan]

W/e I feel like making a few dealios.

Might as well first get these little important questions out in order.

@(Lucky, RD) - am I right in assuming neither of you will be pursuaded to vote anyone else besides MoI?

@(Moi, Feirei) - would both of you be pursuaded to vote for Lucky?

Annoying as hell feirei isn't here.

Anyway answer those small questions and then we can all do something fun~<3

[ActionDan]

~teehee~

<3

[ActionDan]

W/e good enough. Feirei seems not to care to vote Lucky and wants to flip Moi.

So be it.

Anyway, I was of two minds when Moi 'cleared me'

W/e I was hoping to lynch Lucky who I think is the last scum so I can win with town, but since everyone is so obstinate. I'm gonna have some Fun Fun Fun.

Read this and weep. Or be happy (if scum)

I'M A SURVIVOR!

and I feel comfortable now saying I also was granted a 1-shot BP

So here's the deal

Ima gonna

VOTE: MoI

and end today. CSL is like not scum. ya? so here's the plan scum (Lucky prolly but just in case RD you can hear me out too).

You kill RD or Lucky, whichever of you is not scum (lol). then I'll vote for CSL first thing tomorrow. you vote CSL. we sip champagne for dirty deeds done.

So happy investigations came out mafia/not mafia. I rode that little piggy all the way home. I was happy there was the 'GF' stuff so scum wouldn't kill me like they did Korlash (god I was so worried).

if it's 4P mylo tomorrow all bets are off.

[ActionDan]

a pity I have to go now. I really wish I had more time to brag here.

I can't believe I have to claim since every town person didn't want to lynch scum today.

hint hint: this is why Moi isn't scum. town needed high power. I mean scum totally could have a GF or ninja since town so strong.

[ActionDan]

Oh, I guess you can kill CSL if you feel like it, but in that case I'm just literally gonna flip a coin and harass both of you by playing :agressive mind games: until I flip a coin. So if you think fate's on your side be my guest! that would be an amusing ending to this game.

[ActionDan]

I guess me + teh scum can claim that we mislynched MoI. Not easy I tell ya, not easy.

[ActionDan]

I mean I feel bad for many of the dead townies. Poor Korlash, you were funny. Poor Om, I knew thee from another place and time. I remain loyal, but I will NOT be a scapegoat. I shan't. I WILL SURVIVE

I will survive!!!!

Oh as long as I know how to love
I know I'll stay alive
I've got all my life to live
I've got all my love to give
And I will survive
I will survive

Hey Hey! O yeah~!

[ActionDan]

O that silly BP was intentional. I thought maybe if I made an obvious lie the bigger survivor lie would be taken as truth.

So I was beginning to think of a rolecop at the very end of the day and was thinking potentially D2 stark knew om was a cop b/c he was rolecoped N1. Haven't read actions yet.

Also I changed my mind with and was leaning RD > Moi town... I just couldn't say it with the survivor claim. in case Moi town ---> I thought lucky would take the bait whilst RD would just kill me .

[ActionDan]

I would have to agree with RD. Voyeur was pretty useless really without additional roles of a type different than 'investigative'.

I always tend to think of balanced starting with 11:2 mountainous and then try to adjust town power vs scum power vs the extra scum wherein naturally town needs more power to make up for the extra scum (well I suppose any town power at all regardless of scum power helps but that's besides the point)

RC + tracker + scum NK pretty much clamps down hard on figuring out where town has power. with cop+cop I would have given GF status to the tracker.

also scum had double action.

[ActionDan]

btw Om what do you percieve as my town meta ?

Was I not spastic enough If it seemed like I didn't post much, it's due to me having minutes per day to spend on this game after D1 instead of hours.

[ActionDan]

Honestly MoI was your worst investigation target. You should have known that if MoI was mafia then he would killed you anyway. If MoI was not mafia, he would have died instead, in which case your investigation would be wasted. Lucky or RD were the best choices. each investigation would limit what they could be, with Moi flipping follower, we'd have assumed high scum power and we could have debated either RD ninja vs Me/Lucky GF.

Also I didn't want you to get all confirmation biasy in the GraveYard. (tbh the your death flavor suggested a guilty. And I had a feeling that meant you investigated either Moi or lucky. But if Lucky, he'd prolly be GF since he didn't kill Moi, so I thought you prolly investigated Moi with your 'I cop people I think are good players and also maybe town'