Mini 1310: I Got My Eye On You Mafia (Game Over!)

[ActionDan]

If im scum how does this balance? That question goes for AD and MoI too.

I'll answer these kinds of concerns later. Moi can theory this one out first.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok so your arguement is going to be that Delta-PR claimed a complicated miller role, followed by both teammates (Mist and Stark) trying to get him lynched for it. After that I forced my parter to come out in a claim after there already was two cop and voyeur claims. Finally I actually killed a cop over you, where as scum all I needed to do was hold back, kill you, lynch whatever of OOTN didnt investigate, kill him and then im in a F3 with AD and whatever of lucky/CSL didnt get investigated.

Bascially the whole argument here is “This is so unlikely to have happened I can’t be scum” when your argument for me being scum is also a long, convoluted process. But let’s look at the individual element.

1. Delta-PR claimed a Complicated Miller role – Why do you see this as something that isn’t likely. It was known pre-game that this was an investigation heavy game (which has been born out). Why is it so odd that a Non-Godfather scum would claim Miller in a set-up that makes sense to perhaps have multiple so as to ward off investigations?

2. You ‘forced’ your partner to claim and then immediately cleared him as Town. This point can’t be forgotten in context of your ‘How does this balance now” suggestions. You were more than happy to call Cop-Cop-Voyuer-Tracker balanced for Town but now you are basically arguing that Cop-Cop-Voyeur-Follower isn’t.

3. Your point about “Why wouldn’t I kill you over OOTN” actually doesn’t track given your Post 999 where you call me a Godfather. Why would I, as a Godfather, kill OOTN when he could ‘clear’ me at some point and create all sorts of WIFOM regarding ActionDan perhaps not being Town. The flip-side argument applies to your position – why would I kill the Cop over you if I was immune scum? It doesn’t make sense for you to make the kind of arguments you are making against me suddenly on one hand and simulatenously make arguments directly contradictory in your own defense.

Cop and gunsmith were to cover two different bases at once. In an investigative heavy game, gunsmith make sense to add false positives.

Out of curiosity, you ignore all flipped scum to me interactions. Why?

But you blithely ignored the other logic branch of investigation (Tracking / Watching / Voyuer / Follower) in your initial ‘hey let’s Mass-claim’. Cop and Gunsmith are pretty redundant in the set-up as we know it now and I’m curious as to why you didn’t direct others to the Tracking branch of the tree but both yourself and iStark started the day giving out hypo-claims on that end.

Again – in my ISOing have I missed relevant parts of conversation from Town players on that end?

And you didn't seem to care when I looked at Luckyjt's ISO or consider I haven't completed my ISO work yet ...

Plus again, we are top heavy power wise at cop/cop/voyuer/motion sensor/miller vs tracker/goon/?. Two weak info roles just feels a bit off too, but thats a lesser point. For this to balance with MoI-town, Lucky would have to be something strong (which makes no sense in his self-sacrafice mode). Putting MoI-scum either as weak role (and maybe even goon) balances.

As I mentioned earlier … you were more than happy to clear Cop-Cop-Voyuer-Tracker as Town.

And I know it doesn’t make any sense for you to suggest you are scum but the rest of us have to consider the strong possibility you are a Power-role scum.

Are you suggesting that a set-up of Town Cop times 2 / Town Voyuer / Miller and VTs is balanced by Tracker / ‘other weak role’ / Goon or Tracker / Goon times 2? That’s astonishingly bad set-up speculation. Futhermore later I’m suddenly not another weak role but a Godfather. This reads very much as ‘grasping at straws’ here.

If you lynch me today just lynch him tomorrow. MoI will "follow" CSL tonight if I get lynched, since otherwise im pretty sure he would come up with a "went nowhere" and try and give ninja fears.

Oh so a Ninja is just some sort of “fear-mongering” and not something that should logically be considered given the set-up? Yet Godfather speculation is Pro-Town and not fear-mongering?

I’d also like your take on why clearing ActionDan is something that makes sense for me as scum. You don’t seem to be addressing that given you earlier praised it as the correct move.

In the end this whole reaction from you (Luckyjt is scum, vote him, MoI is scum now that he’s looked at my ISO and found it funky, I know I’m getting lynched so hang MoI tomorrow) doesn’t ring true to Rainbowdash / your other account that I have played with.

In the game you are mentioning you took your time ‘catching’ me at endgame and didn’t make what look like knee-jerk / panic reactions to the least amount of pressure.

I just want it on record – you aren’t trying to suggest aside from claim and balance based areas that my look at your ISO is in any way incorrect? Because you haven’t addressed the fact that you basically completely ignored your partners until absolutely necessary (when they had been outed), directed attention elsewhere when they were on your ‘suspicions’ list, and tried to clear iStark as Town with his claim.

Its MoI. I am happy (well not "happy" but content) being lynched if you will just lynch him tomorrow, I just dont want Lucky throwing the game with a "herpa derpa he claimed a PR" move.

So you were sure enough that you were happy Lucky was your vote earlier and now you are addressing him as Derp-Town? If anything the fact that you only looked at me after I looked into your slot and suddenly found all this ‘scum motivation’ and were happy to vote the weakest non-confirmed player in the game is telling.

You (again) do realize that MoI busted the already critically wounded rban claim, and as I said it was the correct play for him to bust the Stark claim right? I think he is either going to be a GF here, since that would probably about balance vs two cops/voyuer/miller. Heck I can even see saying making him a goon sorta balances it.

If im scum how does this balance? That question goes for AD and MoI too.

Clearly Ninja makes absolute sense for you given

1. Your claim that ‘specifically’ circumvents the Cop style investigation but no the Trackers / Watcher branch.
2. The fact that you are selling a Ninja as fear-mongering

And your 'his motivation makes sense as scum" also applies to you - your behavior (ignoring partners, trying to clear a partner based on PR claim, only pressuring them when it was a forgone conclusion) also fits quite nicely as scum.

--

The only person who's won the game if they are scum is CSL... or me (it's ok guys I'm town and will die tomorrow. I'm totally scum though if I survive. totally.)

You can only be scum if you are both Godfather and Ninja. If so congratulations.

Moi could I have your theory as to why istark lied about tracking you?

My working theory about why iStark lied about tracking my slot was that he lied about his N1 track and used it to track Lopsy. His reaction to my counter-claiming him was my first clue (specifically the “Lopsy was totally active you liar”). Here’s what I think happened.

1. iStark tracks Lopsy N1. Gets a ‘no-result’ and thinks “Aha, VT” and thus a safe bet for a later “He didn’t go anywhere” fake-claim. Little does he know Lopsy actually flaked on his / her action.
2. Next let’s look at the positions of the ‘Hypo-claims’

Om does his hypo at Post 515 saying he hypo-copped Korlash.
iStark does his hypo at Post 523 afterwards when he suggests he tracked Om.

Now iStark doesn’t actually confirm this is his actual action until the Day where I busted him. In fact he actually votes Om at Post 608 for reasons completely divorced from Om’s claim (which if he had actually tracked Om he would have known were accurate).

So I think iStark was pretty clearly stringing his claim along in trying to make ‘logical’ sounding uses of his role that didn’t actually reflect he actually did. And his incorrect assumption (Lopsy equals VT equals safe ‘Fake-Track’) bit him in the ass.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Up next I will be doing my ISO of CSL / Feirei and then of both iStark and RBan's slot.

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 5.1:

MagnaofIllusion - Rainbowdash

Not voting - MagnaofIllusion, Feirei, ActionDan, luckyjt

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch and to no-lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-05-15 17:02:45), or by 4:00 PM on May 15th, 2012.

Also, Feirei has been prodded.

[Rainbowdash]

MoI is totally scum here, but im in a bad position where I know that I basically need to be the lynch, so as long as I can make sure that he is getting lynched tomorrow im fine making that move to take him down.

Your reasoning for the fake track is derpy too... you are saying that Stark correctly guessed that OOTN was an active PR when he breadcrumbed so was willing to risk a fake claim on that? No way in hay thats true. His results except maybe for yours are entirely true. Really what possibly is his motivation to fake a result on town? If he was worried about clearing town through WIFOM of "why target them" he would fake a result on a partner. Which I think he did.

Also yes. I had both scum at null to lean scum for a majority of the game. Im not going to say I had good scum reads at all, and Stark threw me for a loop when he claimed tracker since he was obviously a tracker. I figured I just got unlucky with a gambit and hit a town PR.

Cop/Cop/Voyure/Miller vs Tracker/Goon/[Goon/GF] is about right to me. I know its gaming the mod, but do you really think that in a setup with two sane cops there is no miller or GF? And instead there is a ninja that counters a grand total of one town PR?

Seriously, if I get for sure confirmation from AD. Lucky and CSL that they will vote you im totally fine being lynched here. Delta screwed up how to play miller horribly, and im left holding the pieces of his play with reads that left both scum near the middle of the road. I know you say it doesnt match meta, but have you ever seen me close to being lynched as town?

I also want a "yes I will follow CSL" from you since I have not gotten that one yet.

Also you make more sense than anypony to have killed OOTN. That one I dont see how you can even start to ignore. I know you arent derpy enough to seriously believe if you are town either that I let you live as scum. There is a reason I basically never lose as scum, and part is I know how to STOP anypony from being cleared. I kill you and GF speculation of AD opens up since he was not that great looking, and I could probably have taken him down 1v1 if needed, and with luck OOTN burned a cop on me or CSL leaving Lucky as the easy first lynch, or if not GF speculation still comes into play.

OOTN was basically confirmed through mod messing up, but lack of a GF flip makes you the bigger threat, unless again you are going to argue that a ninja is the counter to four investigative town PRs, only one of which can be countered by ninja.

[Feirei]

-reads 1004 three times-

._. no way in hell that came from scum.

Problem is, I have a gut town read on MoI, but maybe that's because I haven't eaten anything. More after I get food.

[ActionDan]

Hard to decide, I find it.

I will say that I think Istark did track Om night 1. Post 608 is not divorced from Om's claim imo. Istark said he was 'looking for something', he said 'do you have anything to say?' Which unless someone can correct me, feels like he wanted Om to claim his role + action explicitly last night. Possibly to say something like 'oh hey, I is tracker, and Om is telling the truth, town cred get!'

[Rainbowdash]

I will say that I think Istark did track Om night 1. Post 608 is not divorced from Om's claim imo. Istark said he was 'looking for something', he said 'do you have anything to say?' Which unless someone can correct me, feels like he wanted Om to claim his role + action explicitly last night. Possibly to say something like 'oh hey, I is tracker, and Om is telling the truth, town cred get!'

Eyup. Im going to guess that Stark just went with a safe "partner did X" claim instead of making a wild guess about what town did. There was zero motivation for him to lie about a claim really, but if he wanted to why risk something that could be busted?

Its MoI, it took me a bit to realize it but I think the best way for me to catch MoI-scum is to put myself in his hooves and see if it matches up with what I see as correct scum play. Taking Stark down gave him a ton of town cred and im thinking made him think he wouldnt get challenged until F3 where he can go heads up against Lucky or Me (and im sure he hoped CSL but thats something im not letting happen).

Balance still too with MoI trying to say im a ninja, all it counters is his "role", and is a hinderance against what v2v claimed. Im thinking MoI is either goon or GF to wrap this up, more likely GF since scum needs something to counter two cops.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI is totally scum here, but im in a bad position where I know that I basically need to be the lynch, so as long as I can make sure that he is getting lynched tomorrow im fine making that move to take him down.

If you self-vote I’ll stop re-reading and not put up a fight tomorrow assuming I survive to then.

Your reasoning for the fake track is derpy too... you are saying that Stark correctly guessed that OOTN was an active PR when he breadcrumbed so was willing to risk a fake claim on that? No way in hay thats true. His results except maybe for yours are entirely true. Really what possibly is his motivation to fake a result on town? If he was worried about clearing town through WIFOM of "why target them" he would fake a result on a partner. Which I think he did.

Oh, so he breadcrumbed as scum in a way that he might come back to it if a claim occurred and only claim said breadcrumb after OOTN claimed and you think my reasoning is ‘derpy’. Your rhetoric here does not suit you Rainbow.

Your logic is faulty. He’s a scum Tracker crumbing and being absolutely careful with his actions expect for when he claimed on me. And as you said before his reaction is real so he was ‘taken by surprise’ but instead of just bussing Rban and keeping quiet I double-bussed for the hell of it.

Also yes. I had both scum at null to lean scum for a majority of the game. Im not going to say I had good scum reads at all, and

Stark threw me for a loop when he claimed tracker since he was obviously a tracker. I figured I just got unlucky with a gambit and hit a town PR.

[

And the bolded undermines your ‘sudden revelantion’ stance. You are retrofitting your opinion to support your conclusion. If you are telling me you, as Town, in the moment thought that he as scum who got caught in a gambit but only when I pointed out how your play has been scummy suddenly I’m obv-scum then no, I don’t buy it.

Cop/Cop/Voyure/Miller vs Tracker/Goon/[Goon/GF] is about right to me. I know its gaming the mod, but do you really think that in a setup with two sane cops there is no miller or GF? And instead there is a ninja that counters a grand total of one town PR?

I love this. Ninja only counters one powerrole. Except I’m Town so I know it’s Cop/Cop/Voyuer/Follower versus Goon / Tracker / ???? and Ninja which neutralizes half the Town powerroles makes absolute sense.

You may keep Appealing to Repetition on this ‘Ninja makes no sense’ argument but that doesn’t mean it’s true.

I also want a "yes I will follow CSL" from you since I have not gotten that one yet.

I have no problems stipulating to that given that I think you hanging ends the game as evidenced above by my statement.

Also you make more sense than anypony to have killed OOTN. That one I dont see how you can even start to ignore. I know you arent derpy enough to seriously believe if you are town either that I let you live as scum. There is a reason I basically never lose as scum, and part is I know how to STOP anypony from being cleared. I kill you and GF speculation of AD opens up since he was not that great looking, and I could probably have taken him down 1v1 if needed, and with luck OOTN burned a cop on me or CSL leaving Lucky as the easy first lynch, or if not GF speculation still comes into play.

And here you once again make no sense.

You can’t give my ONE reason why I as any of the scum you are calling me (either Goon or Godfather) would kill OOTN given that I as scum have to strongly believe I’m not getting scanned for all the reasons you are making (that I was in a strong Town position). You can’t give me one.

You further pretend I’m too dangerous for you as scum to make me live and then turn around in the same post and talk about how you ‘caught’ me before. If I was scum I’d have taken you out in a heartbeat if that was the case.

Yes this whole argument revolves around “I Rainbowdash am too skillful to let you live and could easily take everyone else out”. That’s a bill of sale I am not buying.

OOTN was basically confirmed through mod messing up, but lack of a GF flip makes you the bigger threat, unless again you are going to argue that a ninja is the counter to four investigative town PRs, only one of which can be countered by ninja.

Look it’s the broken record again. You argue a Godfather makes perfect sense a Ninja doesn’t based on statistics that are skewed by the false assumption I am not Town. A Ninja and Godfather are equally potent in a Two Cop / Two Tracker-Watcher style game.

[Rainbowdash]

If you self-vote I’ll stop re-reading and not put up a fight tomorrow assuming I survive to then.

Im never going to self-vote, so thats out. Even if I would its not like you would ever roll over and die tomorrow, neither of us are that kind of pony.

Oh, so he breadcrumbed as scum in a way that he might come back to it if a claim occurred and only claim said breadcrumb after OOTN claimed and you think my reasoning is ‘derpy’. Your rhetoric here does not suit you Rainbow.

Your logic is faulty. He’s a scum Tracker crumbing and being absolutely careful with his actions expect for when he claimed on me. And as you said before his reaction is real so he was ‘taken by surprise’ but instead of just bussing Rban and keeping quiet I double-bussed for the hell of it.

He tracked OOTN night one. Zero way he didnt outside of him planning to claim VT because it busts his true fakeclaim. Why did he lie about you though? He tracked other town (who?) and just randomly decided to claim a went nowhere result on you instead? The move was horrible, I will give that point up, but I dont think he tracks town and lies about you going nowhere if you are also town. It makes the most sense for you to be the one that submitted the kill or something and figured it would make him suspect if two non-active scum PRs flip.

Also yes. I had both scum at null to lean scum for a majority of the game. Im not going to say I had good scum reads at all, and

Stark threw me for a loop when he claimed tracker since he was obviously a tracker. I figured I just got unlucky with a gambit and hit a town PR.

[

And the bolded undermines your ‘sudden revelantion’ stance. You are retrofitting your opinion to support your conclusion. If you are telling me you, as Town, in the moment thought that he as scum who got caught in a gambit but only when I pointed out how your play has been scummy suddenly I’m obv-scum then no, I don’t buy it.

This has nothing to do with you, this is why I was thinking Stark was town and my move hit a town PR instead of hitting scum.

Cop/Cop/Voyure/Miller vs Tracker/Goon/[Goon/GF] is about right to me. I know its gaming the mod, but do you really think that in a setup with two sane cops there is no miller or GF? And instead there is a ninja that counters a grand total of one town PR?

I love this. Ninja only counters one powerrole. Except I’m Town so I know it’s Cop/Cop/Voyuer/Follower versus Goon / Tracker / ???? and Ninja which neutralizes half the Town powerroles makes absolute sense.

You may keep Appealing to Repetition on this ‘Ninja makes no sense’ argument but that doesn’t mean it’s true.

Ninja beats your claim, it tells a voyure that there is a ninja. So it counters one role, has nothing to do with two, and is identified as existin by the fourth if you are town. Biggest thing it counters? The dead scum role.

Also you make more sense than anypony to have killed OOTN. That one I dont see how you can even start to ignore. I know you arent derpy enough to seriously believe if you are town either that I let you live as scum. There is a reason I basically never lose as scum, and part is I know how to STOP anypony from being cleared. I kill you and GF speculation of AD opens up since he was not that great looking, and I could probably have taken him down 1v1 if needed, and with luck OOTN burned a cop on me or CSL leaving Lucky as the easy first lynch, or if not GF speculation still comes into play.

And here you once again make no sense.

You can’t give my ONE reason why I as any of the scum you are calling me (either Goon or Godfather) would kill OOTN given that I as scum have to strongly believe I’m not getting scanned for all the reasons you are making (that I was in a strong Town position). You can’t give me one.

OOTN was close to confirmed town. Thats why. He is going to next to remove somepony (probably Lucky) from the easy lynch pool too. Its not that you are afraid of being caught by a cop, its that you are afraid of what PoE will do. You and I both know that keeping everypony as lynchable is one of the hardest and most essential things to pull off as scum, and letting OOTN live makes it harder to do such. OOTN live, Lucky becomes a hard lynch and then what? You, me, Lucky all are getting reexamined.

You further pretend I’m too dangerous for you as scum to make me live and then turn around in the same post and talk about how you ‘caught’ me before. If I was scum I’d have taken you out in a heartbeat if that was the case.

No you wouldnt have. Just about everypony is somewhat unsure of me and I showed next to no suspicion of you.

OOTN was basically confirmed through mod messing up, but lack of a GF flip makes you the bigger threat, unless again you are going to argue that a ninja is the counter to four investigative town PRs, only one of which can be countered by ninja.

Look it’s the broken record again. You argue a Godfather makes perfect sense a Ninja doesn’t based on statistics that are skewed by the false assumption I am not Town. A Ninja and Godfather are equally potent in a Two Cop / Two Tracker-Watcher style game.

Voyuer and Follower are roles that exist purely to bust up fakeclaims. Its hard to definatively have caught scum just through a result from one.

[Luckyjt]

vote: MagnaofIllusion

I feel that of everyone playing moi is the biggest threat if mafia. I know I am risking Moi being town and helpful to finding mafia, yet If we let moi live as mafia it will be bad for town because of what I have said before. So I am truly hoping this ends the game or else we will have one hell of a day if this game continues.

[ActionDan]

Proddodges-

Also... I think Lucky is the last scum. I will mentally sort out Istark's D3 gaffe a bit more. a bit more a bit more.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

I can at least wait and hear things out. There is no rush here.

[Rainbowdash]

Ok im just going to talk some stuff out.

I want to think that MoI is scum because some of this just makes sense from him, and the result from Stark that was wrong on MoI is just so bucking bizzare that im not sure where to go next. I have no clue why scum would ever lie about that result. Ever. Even less reason why they would lie about it on a random townie.

Why did OOTN die is another wierd thing. There was the "what?" Korlash death in between the two cops going down, which would make me think that scum thought Korlash was a PR due to his response to my call for massclaim. Why not kill the second cop though? That points more to a GF, but again why did OOTN die before MoI in that case? Korlash kill is so horrible though, I almost have a hard time MoI actually makes that kill outside of him being a GF and therefore not threatened by him at all.

Lucky and Lopsy both make a decen amount of sense as partners to dead scum as well. Lopsy did a little push on Stark but backed off that wagon pretty quickly and shifted him to town, while both dead scum mostly ignored Lucky or called him town.

So while I actually think that MoI is scum from what has happened, im almost to the point where I think he is good enough to not have made a couple of foalish mistakes in his play (such as Korlash kill) outside of him being a GF, where Korlash probtown through clear and maybe PR would have been an inviting kill.

This play from him sorta reminds me of last time I saw him as scum too in a F3... so im not overly sure either way of what is going on. This last Lucky vote seems way out of place though, so im going to take some more time to think about stuff.

[Luckyjt]

I knew this vote was going to get people talking and put me out there once more. I had nothing to add and could pressure one person with my vote. I choose Moi because the last scum is MOI or Rd since I keep getting told that CSL is town. Now as I said MOI is the most dangerous as scum.

Now I am about to say something very scummish but if I was confirmed town this would make perfect sense. Lynch Moi today, if the game doesnt end we lynch Rd tomorrow. But if you want to let scum win, we lynch myself tomorrow, I wont even try to defend myself. MOI has to go today if town wants a chance of winning.

If we lynch me today you will be stuck between lynching RD and MOI tomorrow and as we saw today, we need one dead to confirm the other.

So lynch who you want, but I say the best lynch today is MOI. I had to look at everything posted today to come to this decision.

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 5.2:

MagnaofIllusion - luckyjt (L-1)

Not voting - MagnaofIllusion, Feirei, ActionDan, Rainbowdash

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch and to no-lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-05-15 17:02:45), or by 4:00 PM on May 15th, 2012.

[ActionDan]

You are all obviously scum for lurking ^_^!

Questions for all!

Would cop-cop-voyeur be considered high or low power? would cop-cop-voyeur-follower be considered high or low power?

would goon-goon-tracker be low/high scum power? [GF or ninja]--goon--tracker?

Could the last scum be more obvious about it?, It would totally save me aggravation, unless it's CSL, in which case fuck. I hope Istark didn't take Buffy to heart and try to bus the hell out of Rylai/CSL/Feifei scum...

[Rainbowdash]

Would cop-cop-voyeur be considered high or low power? would cop-cop-voyeur-follower be considered high or low power?

would goon-goon-tracker be low/high scum power? [GF or ninja]--goon--tracker?

medium high, high, normal, medium high (as GF/ninja are very setup dependant for how strong they are)

Also its not CSL. If it is game is already over so im not even going to consider it an option.

Vote MoI

I really cant see me coming off this today. Ive been thinking about it but I really think it just makes the most sense over a somewhat suicidal last scum.

[ActionDan]

Gd, why the fuck did Vijay claim to be a gimpy PR.

Fuck
FUCK.

VOTE: Lucky

Korlash died for his sins (aka suspecting Lucky with a passion).
BBmolla tried to protect lucky.
I noted weird shit earlier between Lucky Istark.

then again I don't get why Rban claimed freaking bodyguard out of nowhere.

Lopsy read so town. I can't kill Moi. I can't. I made a mistake with Istark and only based my read on one scum game of his to get a read into his meta. but since that time other scum games of his have come out and I have realized my mistake.

I think the real mystery lies with Istark (damn you) but I have the weirdest feeling, he actually got a result and misread it.

Don't get me wrong, the temptation to hammer is strong. very strong. so strong. Why can't I win this game easily. It would have been so pleasant.

[ActionDan]

Btw Rd, if Moi would flip town, I feel it necessary to mention that my conscience would dicate that you be outed next. Mostly for gut reasons, and the way this day is playing out.

[ActionDan]

before this day is over, I would like to hear what RD and lucky think of eachother as of this moment.

[ActionDan]

also I have never lost a game in which I survived to lylo. I really don't want to start now. (honestly this isn't lylo but it feels like it.)

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

Fine. I will look again, but I keep coming to more or less the same conclusions here. The only reason I at all think Lucky can be scum here is the Korlash kill is just way more out of left field then I would expect and I dont see MoI making that kill outside of being a GF who had a PR read on him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be LA from 4:30pm EDT today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties. And specifically this weekend with a charity golf Scramble on Saturday to help with and Mother’s Day on Sunday my posting is likely to be restricted to late nights if at all.

--

VOTE: Rainbowdash

He tracked OOTN night one. Zero way he didnt outside of him planning to claim VT because it busts his true fakeclaim. Why did he lie about you though? He tracked other town (who?) and just randomly decided to claim a went nowhere result on you instead? The move was horrible, I will give that point up, but I dont think he tracks town and lies about you going nowhere if you are also town. It makes the most sense for you to be the one that submitted the kill or something and figured it would make him suspect if two non-active scum PRs flip.

No, it only makes sense when you filter it through the prism of “MoI is scum so let’s look at the actions with that in mind and find a conclusion”. The last sentence makes no sense at all.

Rban is a flipped Goon. If I am said Godfather as you keep floating and no other ‘tracker' style role exists (which is your premise given you claim I am not a Follower) it make zero sense for him to fake-claim me going nowhere. There is no Town role that threatens me and him flipping scum Tracker will make his ‘choice’ of me and resulting ‘no action’ look even more suspect if I am ‘cleared’ by OOTN.

It would have made much more sense for him to clear Rban at that stage if you are suggesting a gambit by iStark with his claimed actions to help his team.

I’ll stand by my theory as stated and we can discuss post-game once all alignments are known.

This has nothing to do with you, this is why I was thinking Stark was town and my move hit a town PR instead of hitting scum.

No it just shows how in the moment you jumped to clear iStark but then when put to the wall you suddenly went back and ‘reasoned’ out a completely different line of thought.

It’s called exposing scum motivated play Llama.

Ninja beats your claim, it tells a voyure that there is a ninja. So it counters one role, has nothing to do with two, and is identified as existin by the fourth if you are town. Biggest thing it counters? The dead scum role.

Um whut? A ninja is immune to both Followers / Voyuers / Trackers / Watchers. You trying to suggest otherwise is wrong and highlights to me you are trying to fit your arguments to a conclusion not the other way around.

OOTN was close to confirmed town. Thats why. He is going to next to remove somepony (probably Lucky) from the easy lynch pool too. Its not that you are afraid of being caught by a cop, its that you are afraid of what PoE will do. You and I both know that keeping everypony as lynchable is one of the hardest and most essential things to pull off as scum, and letting OOTN live makes it harder to do such. OOTN live, Lucky becomes a hard lynch and then what? You, me, Lucky all are getting reexamined.

See this is where I know you don’t believe your arguments.

You keep trying to suggest I had motive to kill OOTN because he was next to confirmed Town but you had zero reason to. Well if he was confirmed Town and it was a danger to a ‘hypo-Godfather’ why isn’t it a danger to you-scum.

Oh that’s right. You are so much better than everyone else you would not fear PoE. Noted.

No you wouldnt have. Just about everypony is somewhat unsure of me and I showed next to no suspicion of you.

Aside from Nom (who ended up dead just after giving that suspicion BTW, what are the odds of that hmmmm ....) who else suspected you? Provide links to support your stance please.

Vote MoI

I really cant see me coming off this today. Ive been thinking about it but I really think it just makes the most sense over a somewhat suicidal last scum.

@ActionDan / CSL

– Do not let Rainbowdash off tomorrow if I end up dead today. He’s already made it clear he thinks he can out-argue anyone left come the morning. The absurd crap he’s spewing today is a pretty clear sign of desperate scum trying to buy as much Town cred as possible. Just look at how he's acting all "Towny" and complying with Dan's request simply because ActionDan is confirmed Town. He's still hoping CSL will side with him today and then to 'work his magic' tomorrow.

CSL

– this especially applies to you. If ActionDan dies at Night make Rainbow and Luckyjt cross-vote and then look carefully at all of Rainbow’s arguments today

AFTER

I reviewed his ISO and found it wanting. He only suddenly discovers I am scum after I suspect him. His play from that point is "Shit, have to take care of the biggest threat to me now when before he hadn't shown any interest in thinking I am scum".

--

vote: MagnaofIllusion

I feel that of everyone playing moi is the biggest threat if mafia. I know I am risking Moi being town and helpful to finding mafia, yet If we let moi live as mafia it will be bad for town because of what I have said before. So I am truly hoping this ends the game or else we will have one hell of a day if this game continues.

So I’m the best lynch because I’m “the biggest threat”?

Dear god this game …

--

Questions for all!

Would cop-cop-voyeur be considered high or low power? would cop-cop-voyeur-follower be considered high or low power?

would goon-goon-tracker be low/high scum power? [GF or ninja]--goon--tracker?

Cop / Cop / Voyuer is mid to high power IMO.
Cop / Cop / Voyuer / Follower is clearly high power.
Goon / Goon / Tracker is very low power. Hell even in a game that simply had Cop / Cop that scum grouping isn’t close to balanced.
Cop / Cop / (GF or Ninja) is high power.

[Voidedmafia]

Bump