Mini 1310: I Got My Eye On You Mafia (Game Over!)

[Korlash]

I am in the process of creating a list of my thoughts so far.

Where are we on this, BTW? Any ETA on the FYI or is it still TBD so we can AFK until EOD for a BBQ and some R&R until we are ETR for some Q&A?

Shit, I can keep this up all day long...

[DeltaWave]

Well sadly, since you $^#%ed up your claim here (or more specifically didn't post the exact thing I was looking for) I can no longer argue against your lynch. So in the event people actually push it, you're on your own mate. The best thing would be for you to just vote V2V and help me push that one instead... wait...

Care to explain what part about this claim is fucked up? Or are you just going to point the finger at me because I pointed the finger at you?

[Luckyjt]

I was just about to point that out as well. Its weird that other are no following suit with my original predictions. Maybe not so with Korlash since he wasnt there at the beginning but more towards Actiondan who says any of those 3 are good lynches after Korlash did, but didnt try to make cases out of them as to why they are mafia. Unless his opinion was completely changed by Krolash's post.

I haven't looked at you a lot through these rereads, so answer me this... If you predicted this so long ago, why is it that I had to come in here and revive it? They've managed to have links between them all game, yet the only known reference of the scum trio is back on page 3?

I'm all for early predictions mate, but you still have a duty to follow up on them. Otherwise, it was no more than a lucky guess... ha... I did it again... You're a fun guy. =D

Well I gave up on the trio but kept the Kondi/vijay questioning for a couple pages and still think of them two as scum.

@Delta, my next post I will pos will be that post.

[Luckyjt]

I meant Korlash not delta in my last post.
Here we go. I didnt download the files since I am not on my computer since my computer broke down and I am using a temp computer with limited memory so here are my thoughts on memory and what we have seen so far.

ActionDan was missing in action (see Korlash I can do the same) in most of the beginning of the game. He began playing as more people where questionin ghim. He was able to create a solid defense to some of the doubts that hwere placed on him, but did not clarify everything. So far in this thread he seems to be much more present but I did not like his post last page. My read on him is town at the moment but he is one of the most ify from who I think is town.

2. DeltaWave has been away for some time, I saw him a couple posts before the site went down. To me he is null.

3. IceGuy has been placing the spotlight on people and pressuring them from what I remember. I like this since we get to see peoples reactions to being under pressure. To me he has a town read.

4. iStark, before the crash he was being questioned by I cant remember who. He had been posting posts which where unclear at first but clarified what he meant later on. To me he is null.

5. Kondi2424 is my biggest mafia read. Why for many reasons which I have stated before. He has been posting at convenience and not posting anything helpful. (Now before someone says I am doing the same, I am trying to be helpful.) He placed his vote on me after I said he could be scum iirc (prove me wrong). At the very first pages when I first came up with the glass/kondi team I stated that the post which said that (paraphrasing) "On of us two is scum and the other is not." But that teaming died down as the thread progress, he began teaming much more with Vijay and the two began backing each other up.

6. Lopsy he has a town read by me. He hasnt posted much here, but he was trying to be helpful in the early parts of the game.

7. Luckyjt thats me

8. Malthusis, who is this? I dont remember him/her much. Null read at the moment.

9. Rylai Crestfall a bagon began forming on him and he seemed to ignore good questions placed on him. He seemed to be ignoring anything that he did not want to answer. I looked into he claims that he is scum and they seemed valid. He has a slight scum read because of this.

10. vijay2vasandani my second highest scum here. Reasons are above and through out the thread whether you want to call it OMGUS, it has nothing to do with him voting for me (whether you believe me or not.) , it has all to do with the way he was playing early on in the game.

11. Mist Beauty BBmolla null on BBmolla, mist beauty also had a null read.

12. Otto von Clark Korlash, Otto had a null read, Korlash has a town read so far. He brought back activity in the game and is looking through the file to see who he thinks is scum. The determination seems to be that he is town. He could have stayed low if he was mafia since the conversation here was pretty dead but decided to state his opinions and reads.

13. Glass had a scum read but is currently null but slightly leaning scum still.

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 1.4:

DeltaWave - IceGuy, kondi2424, iStark
Glass - ActionDan
IceGuy - vijay2vasandani
CSL - Malthusis
vijay2vasandani - CSL, Korlash, BBmolla
kondi2424 - Luckyjt
ActionDan - Glass

Not Voting:Lopsy, DeltaWave

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch and to no-lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-04-05 15:06:38)

Still searching for Rylai and Glass replacements, and now Malthusis as well.

Also, Kor, that explains the voteless comments...*derp*

[Korlash]

Care to explain what part about this claim is fucked up? Or are you just going to point the finger at me because I pointed the finger at you?

I never pointed the finger at you mate which only makes all these lashes at me so pointless. The fact remains your claim in the old thread contains more than your claim in this one does, and that's your fault not mine. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to reveal anything now since you have sowed seeds of doubt in your claim so you'll have to figure out what it was yourself. I will say it was a key timing piece that made your claim being fake a hell of a lot less likely PLUS accounted for Iceman's reaction to your claim. As you can see, it was a very very important part of your claim and so not including it this time bums me out... I'm a sad Korlash indeed...

But hey, if you feel your time is better spent lashing out at the one guy who has continuously said your claim is likely real... fine... I don't care about you so I couldn't care less if you resolve yourself to the gallows. But I'll be over here actively contributing to the game while you whine.

ActionDan was missing in action (see Korlash I can do the same)

Lolz... (mine are better )

[malthusis]

I'm here, just had a lot of RL stuff to do.

Will catch up and post something by the end of today.

[Lopsy]

Lynching you isn't about 'gaining information' it's about preserving the game as a whole. If you survive information will be lost due to people's focus being on you, power role info will be lost due to wasting it sorting you out, time will be lost due to dealing with you. Lynching you is an investment, we don't gain a lot of noticeable information from it immediately but we gain a better game and thus more information throughout because of it.

This is ridiculous.
First of all: "...power role info will be lost due to wasting it sorting you out..." No, Delta claimed miller.

Second of all, Korlash says lynching Delta isn't about gaining information (which is correct - it gains the least information out of all possible lynches), but later he says we gain more information throughout. [@Korlash: What am I missing? How does removing Delta create a "better game"?]

Finally,

none

of Korlash's post gives actual tangible reasons for why we should suspect DeltaWave's claim of being false. All of his post is saying, in essence, "well, this lynch is at least as legitimate as a policy lynch, so we should make this lynch."

Here's an argument for Delta's claim being real: he claimed in the very first post of the entire game and wasn't counterclaimed in a game which is likely to contain a miller by its very theme. He's town, dude.

[Lopsy]

Unfortunately, I'm not willing to reveal anything now since you have sowed seeds of doubt in your claim so you'll have to figure out what it was yourself.

Wow. Also, I just realized I'm not voting for anybody right now.

Vote: Korlash

[Korlash]

This is ridiculous.
First of all: "...power role info will be lost due to wasting it sorting you out..." No, Delta claimed miller.

Second of all, Korlash says lynching Delta isn't about gaining information (which is correct - it gains the least information out of all possible lynches), but later he says we gain more information throughout. [@Korlash: What am I missing? How does removing Delta create a "better game"?]

Finally, none of Korlash's post gives actual tangible reasons for why we should suspect DeltaWave's claim of being false. All of his post is saying, in essence, "well, this lynch is at least as legitimate as a policy lynch, so we should make this lynch."

Here's an argument for Delta's claim being real: he claimed in the very first post of the entire game and wasn't counterclaimed in a game which is likely to contain a miller by its very theme. He's town, dude.

Funny... I wrote that paragraph due entirely to Delta using that very same word... He doesn't actually read what I say either... You two make a fun pair to play with. :\

Before we start brow-beating each other, you do know I have been arguing AGAINST lynching Delta right? no? of course not, you would have had to actually read what I've been posting to know that... Ok, lets get started.

First off: Yeah. And what was delta's response? "If someone wants to vig me, then do so..." We waste a vig... on a townie... My point. that's one nothing.

Second off: Removing a questionable claim removes all the time the rest of us spend worrying about him. If five people have suspicions of player B, then a majority of the game will be spent with those people talking, voting, arguing with, and more or less wasting time with player B. Remove player B from the equation, and those five people can now spend all that time actually scum hunting. Case in point, how many people are voting Delta? Three. How many are wasting time discussing him and his lynch? two. That's five fucking people wasting time on someone most likely town. Now imagine this happening for the next two days. My point. Two-nothing.

Finally: I never said we should make this lynch. You've now lied and shown how inept you are in this argument. My point. Three nothing.
(For the record, I have merely present an argument towards Delta to show him that his lynch IS viable. I have not pushed it nor suggested we actually do it.)

Unfortunately, there are some people in this game that don't believe his claim. I attempted to put those doubt to rest and Delta let me down. I will continue to defend his claim with all my available resources so long as it remains valid, but at the end of the day if he proves to be too much of a distraction his lynch is still valid and credible.

My last word: You've assumed this set-up has a miller in it simply because it is themed around cops. Why? And why would a setup about cops, that contains a miller, make that role completely unique? Why not two? You've not only resorted to confirming a player based on your own assumption of the setup, but have now started condemning others who do not share your opinion. Stop it. My assertions about his claim have been grounded in hard evidence and facts based on his playing and actions. I have never stooped so low as to assume I knew shit about his role. If you're going to resort to calling me scum based on pure speculation, well... Just be glad I have no intention of turning it around on you because it wouldn't be hard.
(Again, for the record. I'VE BEEN SAYING HE IS TOWN... WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM, "DUDE"?) [Caps lock? Nope, real people hold the shift key <3]

Grow up and vote V2V so we can see actual progress. Don't waste my time with this meaningless discussion about a player we both think is town until you have something competent to say.

=D (Smiley face because I'm not actually the asshole I appear to be.)

[Korlash]

Unfortunately, I'm not willing to reveal anything now since you have sowed seeds of doubt in your claim so you'll have to figure out what it was yourself.

Wow. Also, I just realized I'm not voting for anybody right now.

Vote: Korlash

Oh oh.. Forgotted about this one...

I assume your point with this was that I'm not 'revealing' something and making him figure it out himself. Right? Have you considered 'why' I'm doing that? You know, aside from the fact I don't have his role PM and thus cannot actually defend him with anything he doesn't actually say?

[iStark]

Well sadly, since you $^#%ed up your claim here (or more specifically didn't post the exact thing I was looking for) I can no longer argue against your lynch. So in the event people actually push it, you're on your own mate. The best thing would be for you to just vote V2V and help me push that one instead... wait...

Care to explain what part about this claim is fucked up? Or

are you just going to point the finger at me because I pointed the finger at you?

You make me laugh some times.
You blatantly give scum points to anyone who vote's/argues about your claim and yet you accuse others of it.rofl.


Oh and it's not only your claim that's making people vote you, you have hardly posted anything substantial.
you refuse to comment on anything else that has nothing to do with your claim, that's makes kind of difficult to think of you as town.
Who are your top scum reads anyways?
Your thoughts on currently talked about scum trio?

Believe it or not your claim is the only thing that's saving you right now from getting lynched ( Of course Iceguy and my vote is exception and this is first time I'm playing with miller claim and after looking at whatever you showed of your role, I'm not comfortable to keep you around, unless you make some contribution other then claim my vote is going to stay)

[Korlash]

Did you finish that reread yet, or have anything else to say about it than the thing about Lucky calling the 'trio' so early?

[iStark]

Did you finish that reread yet, or have anything else to say about it than the thing about Lucky calling the 'trio' so early?

I gave it re-read to see where you were coming from and apparently I've no problem with what you're saying except, I don't believe that all three of them are scum, heck I highly doubt that there are two scums.
I was supporting V2V lynch before this DW thing and Ryligh w/e (I have hard time typing his/her name -.-) was one of my top three suspects.
This are the only three people I will support lynch for on D-1.

@Lucky, most of your reads are Null -_-

[Voidedmafia]

I'm here, just had a lot of RL stuff to do.

Will catch up and post something by the end of today.

And Malth stays in while Kondi's out.

[ActionDan]

Once my p-set is finished by 4:00, I will devote some time here.

Tuesdays and Wednesdays are not so glorious :/

[Korlash]

I gave it re-read to see where you were coming from and apparently I've no problem with what you're saying except, I don't believe that all three of them are scum, heck I highly doubt that there are two scums.
I was supporting V2V lynch before this DW thing and Ryligh w/e (I have hard time typing his/her name -.-) was one of my top three suspects.
This are the only three people I will support lynch for on D-1.

Well then, if you don't think all three as scum give me some reasons to think otherwise.

And, maybe I'm misunderstanding here... but you're not actually saying you support lynching Rylai simply because you can't type his name... O.o

[iStark]

I gave it re-read to see where you were coming from and apparently I've no problem with what you're saying except, I don't believe that all three of them are scum, heck I highly doubt that there are two scums.
I was supporting V2V lynch before this DW thing and Ryligh w/e (I have hard time typing his/her name -.-) was one of my top three suspects.
This are the only three people I will support lynch for on D-1.

Well then, if you don't think all three as scum give me some reasons to think otherwise.

And, maybe I'm misunderstanding here... but you're not actually saying you support lynching Rylai simply because you can't type his name... O.o

When Kondi proposed 1vs1 against Glass it clearly looked townie to me, it's not something scum would try specially since Kondi was policy lynch candidate for that period. ( This is why I personally believe both of them are towns aand I know this is why you think they are partner, guess we are just looking at it differently)
Your point about glass diluting pressure on his ''supposed'' scum buddies is noted and I did read that entire thread for just that, but it's also true that he is probably only player who has done any active scum hunting, we had our disagreements but I'm not feeling good about putting him in that scum spot just yet, neither do I like the people who are doing it, seems like people are trying to remove him ( Well he is already out but you get the point).
He is definitely not someone I'm willing to lynch on D1 and probably lose important ''contributing'' townie just because he tried to put pressure on multiple players.
I think this has been mentioned before but Kondi is playing his town meta maybe I'm wrong but I'm not willing to put him down as scum this early either.

No, I'm not supporting lynch of Rylai for his name rofl.
Unfortunately links are dead in my original post about my reasons for voting him, but to summarize in one line...
He has been opportunistic about his vote placing, even though he has been reading thread/lurking actively there is obviously lack of involvement/interest in scum hunting = scum behavior.
Not full proof but I prefer his chances over Glass & Kondi.

[Korlash]

When Kondi proposed 1vs1 against Glass it clearly looked townie to me, it's not something scum would try specially since Kondi was policy lynch candidate for that period. ( This is why I personally believe both of them are towns aand I know this is why you think they are partner, guess we are just looking at it differently)

Why wouldn't scum who was set up to be policy lynched not throw out a 1v1 scenario with his partner? At the end of the day, that gives one of them super townie points. Give me one reason why any town WOULD go 1v1 on day one within the first... what was it, six pages? Hell, I think it was less than that. That's a stupid move by town.

And you say he was policy lynch candidate? So it was a move of desperation then? Yeah, totally a town move. :\

Now I'll admit, it's Kondi... so... I honestly expect crap like this from him regardless of his role. But to say it actually makes him town for it... no, not true.

Your point about glass diluting pressure on his ''supposed'' scum buddies is noted and I did read that entire thread for just that, but it's also true that he is probably only player who has done any active scum hunting, we had our disagreements but I'm not feeling good about putting him in that scum spot just yet, neither do I like the people who are doing it, seems like people are trying to remove him ( Well he is already out but you get the point).

What? He pushed for Rylai pressure while not actually joining the wagon himself. Then acted all surprised when Rylai did something "scummy" seemingly having forgotten all his earlier 'suspicions'. That is clearly fake scum hunting. It doesn't matter if he has done it or not if it's all pretend mate, scum motivation there.

He is definitely not someone I'm willing to lynch on D1 and probably lose important ''contributing'' townie just because he tried to put pressure on multiple players.
I think this has been mentioned before but Kondi is playing his town meta maybe I'm wrong but I'm not willing to put him down as scum this early either.

Glass is gone mate, you can't legitimately use this as a reason to keep him around any more.
And Kondi is 'playing' to his meta. Alignment doesn't factor into it as far as I can see.

He has been opportunistic about his vote placing, even though he has been reading thread/lurking actively there is obviously lack of involvement/interest in scum hunting = scum behavior.

Can you show me examples?

[Luckyjt]

Did you finish that reread yet, or have anything else to say about it than the thing about Lucky calling the 'trio' so early?

I gave it re-read to see where you were coming from and apparently I've no problem with what you're saying except, I don't believe that all three of them are scum, heck I highly doubt that there are two scums.
I was supporting V2V lynch before this DW thing and Ryligh w/e (I have hard time typing his/her name -.-) was one of my top three suspects.
This are the only three people I will support lynch for on D-1.

@Lucky, most of your reads are Null -_-

well its hard to tell with inactivity. They could be legitimately busy or just buying time so they dont have to post often and not screw up and get lynched.

[iStark]

K wrote :

Why wouldn't scum who was set up to be policy lynched not throw out a 1v1 scenario with his partner?

Even if it was policy, he only had 3 votes and one of them was Glass.
I don't think there is any need to take this big of gamble in RVS when no one else was even looking at it and there was bigger distraction ( DW claim ) was available to bite on.

K wrote:

six pages?

2nd page to be precise.

K wrote :

And you say he was policy lynch candidate? So it was a move of desperation then? Yeah, totally a town move. :\

We're merely looking at it differently, I don't think it was needed move for scum even if they did pulled it off, I just don't want to lynch one of them on D-1 unless there is something big to put them down as scum.

K wrote:

What? He pushed for Rylai pressure while not actually joining the wagon himself. Then acted all surprised when Rylai did something "scummy" seemingly having forgotten all his earlier 'suspicions'. That is clearly fake scum hunting. It doesn't matter if he has done it or not if it's all pretend mate, scum motivation there.

I think you're referring to this post..

Glass wrote:

I actually don't know your mafia meta, kondi, every game we've been in you have been town. Besides, if you know that I know your town-meta and you know your town-meta it should be easy enough to emulate it as scum.

But regardless, his last few posts have seemed townish and I think that lucky is just being dumb, so let's go somewhere completely different.

VOTE: rylai

His earlier suspicion was Kondi and I don't see any problem in changing his vote to some one inactive to get response.
This was page 4.

Korlash wrote:

Can you show me examples?

Rylai wrote:

I am not making any sense from this game.

That confusion from post 31 was because I had absolutely no fucking idea if you guys were actually SERIOUS about the policy lynching thing.

VOTE: Kondi (L-1)

Kondi hasn't explained anything other than "Glass is not using meta to clear me, thus is scum", which is complete bull. None of this was also explained in the initial vote other than declaring a 1v1. On page 2. That quick vote spamming is also bad enough. Actually, reading closer, your post 24 is convincing me you're scum, completely ignoring Glass's question.

That said, I'm weary of v2v. His posts make sense, but it just feels wrong. Of course, this makes lucky a newb town read by proxy.

This first one came at a time of Kondi wagon going strong and almost getting lynched and Rylai was active enough to lurk and put up the case ( repeated one but still..) but didn't know the vote count? and that was on same page -_-

Rylai wrote:

Horrible, horrible miscounting. I thought it was 6 to lynch >_<

Unvote
VOTE: v2v

That backtracking on the vote. Hell, he never even bothered stating an opinion on kondi since post 28, and even defended kondi to attack lucky. Hell, even if someone outed your fakehammer, why would you ever put your vote on someone you wanted to be town anyways?

Now I'm even more confident in lucky town and v2v scum.

Here flow for wagon was already set from that fakehammr, and case was already been putted up by Otto .
But what interests me more is Reylai producing case for your second vote after him getting two votes for that ''supposedly'' bad counting.
This doesn't seem scummy to you? Rylai clearly tried to kill heat after his first mistake.
And don't get me wrong, I still tried to look beyond it but there was little to no defense from Rylai himself [it was ActionDan that was arguing for him. ( And he was lurking yet never responded himself?)], nor I'm saying there isn't any point in your case but it's little to early to go after Glass and Kondi when we have good enough lynch option available for D-1, we can only lynch one person today and go over happenings on night & D-1 for lynch on D-2.


PS:
Sorry if I missed something I'm kind of rushed for time.

[Voidedmafia]

CSL replaces Rylai Crestfall effective immediately. The most recent VC will be edited to mirror this so I don't forget to do it for the next one.

[CSL]

Unvote

Reading.

[Korlash]

Even if it was policy, he only had 3 votes and one of them was Glass.
I don't think there is any need to take this big of gamble in RVS when no one else was even looking at it and there was bigger distraction ( DW claim ) was available to bite on.

You just used him being policy lynch as a reason to support your town read on him, now you're saying the policy wasn't relevant... Pick a stance and stick with it mate.

And it's not a gamble, it's a ploy. Whichever one survived it would have been on easy street the rest of the game. From a logical perspective, doing it that early doesn't yield a high chance of it actually succeeding, so no real threat BUT it gives them a bussing point to fall back on later in the game. "Oh I can't be Kondi's partner because of this event twelve pages ago." (for example.)

We're merely looking at it differently, I don't think it was needed move for scum even if they did pulled it off, I just don't want to lynch one of them on D-1 unless there is something big to put them down as scum.

... It was page two, there is no such thing as a "needed move". But all that aside, I'd rather 'lynch' V2V at the moment anyway so fine, I just think you're calling them town for reasons that make them scum, in my opinion.

His earlier suspicion was Kondi and I don't see any problem in changing his vote to some one inactive to get response.
This was page 4.

I was referring to his posts from later in the game, the time when both he and Kondi went after people surrounding the Rylai wagon instead of actually joining it. But that is a good idea, I should look into his early game surrounding Rylai as well.

This first one came at a time of Kondi wagon going strong and almost getting lynched and Rylai was active enough to lurk and put up the case ( repeated one but still..) but didn't know the vote count? and that was on same page -_-

Have you seen the vote count on that page? Unless you count the names of the people voting a player there is no indication of exactly how many people are on it. Don't get me wrong, that's his mistake, but I can at least see how it could be done.

Here flow for wagon was already set from that fakehammr, and case was already been putted up by Otto .
But what interests me more is Reylai producing case for your second vote after him getting two votes for that ''supposedly'' bad counting.
This doesn't seem scummy to you? Rylai clearly tried to kill heat after his first mistake.
And don't get me wrong, I still tried to look beyond it but there was little to no defense from Rylai himself [it was ActionDan that was arguing for him. ( And he was lurking yet never responded himself?)], nor I'm saying there isn't any point in your case but it's little to early to go after Glass and Kondi when we have good enough lynch option available for D-1, we can only lynch one person today and go over happenings on night & D-1 for lynch on D-2.

... Considering I think V2V is scum and don't actually like his fakehammer... no, I don't see it as scummy really. It's not killing heat if the case/wagon you join is correct mate. That being said... His reasons given aren't all that great... I'll need to see how the wagon started and the position he was on/in.

nor I'm saying there isn't any point in your case but it's little to early to go after Glass and Kondi when we have good enough lynch option available for D-1, we can only lynch one person today and go over happenings on night & D-1 for lynch on D-2.

It's never too early to go after anyone... Little known fact, but you can actually scumhunt multiple people at a time mate. And since we only have one lynch, might as well make sure it's the best it can be. We still have eight days until deadline, plenty of time to deal with all of this now that way we have more to 'go over' on D-2.

[Voidedmafia]

Bump