Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

[BBmolla]

I don't really care anymore, just lynch Nacho tomorrow.

[CooLDoG]

Are you actually following the game here Tammy?

Scum HAVE to lie about their ethics.

Therefore, if he is telling the truth, he is town (unless he cocked up and told the truth, but in that case it'd be obvious eventually so no harm done).
Not that it matters since Pine is scum so.

I disagree with the bolded. It is risky to lie, it is risky to tell the truth. Lying runs the risk of being caught, whereas if you tell the truth, you're essentially gambling that the other team isn't going to win first.

Right, and then be outed for an easy town win once the "other game" has been completed if you get what I am saying. In order for your scum faction to win you must lie, unless you think you can win first. Strategically it makes sense to lie sense it keeps you in the game after one side has one.

Plus, if scum didn't have to lie then Pine's role would have

absolutely zero

usefulness to the town.

mod, is this game considered bastard? Meaning will you give roles to people that they actually can't extract usefulness from? For example, enablers that have no "seed role", or third party cops with no third party."

If the answer to that question is no, then by using tammy's logic pine's role must be scum. If the answer is no then the only way pine's role can be used by town is to check claims, which pine refuses to do because he is scum. End of story, lynch pine if the answer is no to the above question.

If the answer is yes to that question, then I'll be happy to rethink my read on pine.

Holy sweet Christ the badlogic and WIFOM in this post.

You have a 50% chance at a 100% chance of loss. Or a 0% chance of being found out because you are not using your role correctly and you refuse to do so. I'm taking the lie every single fucking time.

[Pine]

Obviously, not everyone agrees with you. Including our only flipped scum. Yet again, I'm going to have to insist that you not pretend that your personal opinion is divinely-affirmed truth.

[Regfan]

Pine, those reads..?

[Pine]

Ehhh. Overslept. Maybe I'll work on it in class tonight.

[Junpei]

Here is how pines' role is useful to town:

IF he had not outed himself, scum might change alignment names to confuse the town or to stage a gambit. However... there is one thing which I think we forget: We don't know scums' powers or win con. Those two things are very important in determining how useful Pines' role is to town. What I can say is that once outed, Pines' role can not help town further.

[Regfan]

However... there is one thing which I think we forget

: We don't know scums

' powers or

win con

. Those two things are very important in determining how useful Pines' role is to town.

Yes we do, I quoted it earlier and you even went as far to comment on it. Also how is Briz's ISO going?

[Junpei]

However... there is one thing which I think we forget

: We don't know scums

' powers or

win con

. Those two things are very important in determining how useful Pines' role is to town.

Yes we do, I quoted it earlier and you even went as far to comment on it. Also how is Briz's ISO going?

Oh yeah, now I remember why Pines' role makes sense from town. If scum are Lawful and claim Lawful town, then they will be targeted by the opposing scum team. Scum has EVERY INCENTIVE to lie because it protects them from the other scumteam. If Pines' role isn't known then you can catch those lies.

There, now we can stop being dumb about Pines' roles' usefulness if true. I'll do the Briz ISO.

[CooLDoG]

Here is how pines' role is useful to town:

IF he had not outed himself, scum might change alignment names to confuse the town or to stage a gambit. However... there is one thing which I think we forget: We don't know scums' powers or win con. Those two things are very important in determining how useful Pines' role is to town. What I can say is that once outed, Pines' role can not help town further.

Exactly, but seeing how he outed himself with one vote on him...

[Seacore]

Vote Count 3.6

mastin2 (2) -

Tammy, brizingre1

BBmolla (8) -

Junpei, Mastermind of Sin, mastin2, Hazex, Feysal, Pine, CooLDoG, AurorusVox

brizingre1 (2) -

Regfan, TiphaineDeath

CooLDoG (3) -

Shadow1psc, PeregrineV, Moneybags

Nachomamma8 (5) -

chesskid3, Zdenek, BBmolla, Lost Butterfly, Empking

Not Voting (1) - Nachomamma8

(expired on 2012-05-09 00:00:00) until deadline
With 21 alive, 11 are needed to secure a lynch.

Looking for assistance to replace brizingre1. My pool of potential replacements has pretty much already been exhausted by this game.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yea, not buying it. I'm going with Occam's Razor on this one.

Oh yes lets go with the formal fallacy which is easily abused, that sounds safe. Lets not do our best to decide if Pine is faking or not, lets just fall on Occam's Razor, and pretend that we are worried about slipping down a 'slippery slope'.

LoL, Junpei. Good luck arguing that I haven't spent any time thinking about whether or not Pine is faking his role.

Actually, Zdenek is dead on for this one. Were I scum, I'd have done the exact same thing the last day or so.

I probably would have backed down and gone "oh hey, you're right" at the first mention that my plan might not be a good idea, though.

I'm not saying that I think he's completely wrong that you might have played it similarly as scum. However, the way you have handled the situation overall does not seem false to me.

Zdenek's argument essentially boils down to "Pine [as scum] has purposefully made himself seem scummy and acted as difficult as possible so that when people try to lynch him, someone will defend him for it." I am not buying for one second that Pine's strategy [as scum] is to try and get himself lynched and then hope that somebody else comes to his defense in spite of his behavior. Zdenek is using my reaction to Pine as justification for Pine-scum's supposed planned strategy

after the fact

. That doesn't make any sense.

[Junpei]

MoS: Zdenek is also saying that Pines' actions are highly unlikely to come from town, qualifying his belief that Pine is trying to act abstract purposefully (which we are perceiving as scummy).

[Lost Butterfly]

Junpei: Do you still have a scumread on MOS?

Oh, thoughts on Feysal (@ everyone). Anyone wanna wagon him with me?

[Pine]

Eh. I have a null-Town lean on him. Mostly just because I find myself nodding along with him.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS: Zdenek is also saying that Pines' actions are highly unlikely to come from town, qualifying his belief that Pine is trying to act abstract purposefully (which we are perceiving as scummy).

He's straight up admitted that Pine would not necessarily act differently as town, and as I said he's justifying his distinction between Pine-scum and Pine-town by pointing to the

aftermath

of Pine's actions. He does not actually have any reasoning to qualify his assumption here.

[Junpei]

Oh; well that's odd, I'll look into that after Briz. I personally think that Pines' actions are highly unlikely to come from town, which qualifies my suspicion. So now you have my argument to respond to and strawman.

Faraday: I don't have a strong read on MoS right now, but I think he's easily misled by himself.

[Seacore]

Oversoul replaces brizingre1. Oversoul and mastin2 (who suggested Oversoul) have my thanks.

[Pine]

Awww, Overscum

[Empking]

Vote: Cool

I'm 90% sure, he's scum though I'm not 'appy with only four days left.

[Mastermind of Sin]

BBmolla is today's lynch. Deal with it.

[Nachomamma8]

blahblahblah

Also, I'm going to catch up intermittently. But meanwhile, I'm going to be scumhunting from current shit.

TD's little "oh, i should unvote to give the replacement a chance" to immediate "fuck that, he's still scum" reads distinctly townish. Mastin trying to clear me based on arrogant assumptions is town as hell. Cooldog is very different than how I remember him.

Have you re-read the game? Also, a full list of reads would be fantastic.

you can read, or you can be ignored.

@Pine, says the guy who doesn't know what his role does.

This adds to the game how, again?

Vote: BBMolla

following mastin

[PeregrineV]

Welcome Oversoul! Please vote CoolDog and lynch scum!

[PeregrineV]

BBmolla is today's lynch. Deal with it.

Do you have any evidence that ties BBMolla to Shadoweh?

[Lost Butterfly]

Hey. We're not lynching Cooldog. Now how about you stop being a useless sack of shit? Are you actually caught up? I keep forgetting you're in the fucking game. It's the same with Feysal to some degree. This is ridiculous.

[Lost Butterfly]

Nacho scum posting like a fucking boss. Good to see, Nacho. Can we lynch him?