New York 152 Niiightless Game Over!

[Pine]

Policy Lynch Vote: crypto

Yarly

[Pine]

Policy Lynch Vote: crypto

Yarly

You're not going to get that so you should probably not use it as an excuse to contribute absolutely nothing for the duration of the day/game.

This is the kind of ad hom attack that I dislike. You call one post within an hour or so of thread opening "dong nothing for the duration etc". It's bullshit and personally offensive.

Noraa, I have nothing against you. I'm well aware that I'm not likely to succeed in this, but I feel it is ethically appropriate to register my objection.

[Pine]

Blonde Doctor: Are you an alt?

[Pine]

Blonde Doctor: Are you an alt?

Blonde Doctor, please answer this question. It's actually important.

[Pine]

Yes, I am, actually. The game has been active for just over 27 hours and is chock full of fluff. Forgive me if I don't really feel like getting it on me. That question is important, and I want an answer.

However, I'm quite caught up, I just don't see much worth commenting on. Crypto is being a spammy ass, noraa is working way too hard to defend him while being spammy herself, and you're pushing something you (falsely, though probably genuinely) think is a good meta point on me. Vifam and Red are dicking around a bit scummily, though Red tends to come off a bit scummy regardless of his actual alignment. Matias LOOKS like he's being productive and focused, but he's really good at faking it.

In other words, it's still early RVS. The only solid tell I've spotted so far has to do with the question I asked Blonde Doctor, which I will explain in full when I get an answer.

@Blonde Doctor

: Fail to answer my question in your next post, and I will assume you are being intentionally evasive.

[Pine]

<3 BB

Some day, you and Mastin will figure me out. It isn't today.

[Pine]

Pine- Blondie being an alt or not only matters in-game if they're someone else in game, thus breaking the rule on page one.

Tell me how it matters otherwise? (worth noting that Blondie has not come back since but that isn't confirmation of anything until we see them post again.. however it's been a full two days nearly)

Quoting this so I can answer after Pine does.

Agreed, it matters very significantly. I would rather not elaborate, as that elaboration would possibly have an impact on BD's answer.

Yes, BD could lie, but if that lie is later revealed (say, by accidentally posting with a main account,) then the likelihood of them being scum skyrockets.

[Pine]

Blonde Doctor: Are you an alt?

Blonde Doctor, please answer this question. It's actually important.

I did not mean to miss this the first time, I apologize. I am not.

Unvote
Vote: Blonde Doctor

Newbie scumtells like a mofo. Go back and read BD's first few posts.

[Pine]

I don't think a

scum

member would really forget who they

pretended to think

was scum...

Fixed that for you.

Ergo, it's null.

[Pine]

You wouldn't consider that a slip, Pine?

No. Changing one's mind can be analyzed based on motive. Simply forgetting isn't done by either alignment on purpose, so it's null. The former is an act of volition, the latter is not.

[Pine]

NS, thoughts on my Blonde Doctor observation?

[Pine]

Your attack is pathetic and offensive and fuck you. Good luck at the whole "lynching me" thing from that.

This is a pretty solid scumpost. Was on the fence on you, Psyche, thanks for clearing it up.

Unvote
Vote: Psyche

[Pine]

Really apathetic about this game. I'll work on catching up.

[Pine]

What the fuck is this recent shite? Keep it in your pants, you two.

Also this might be moot but. Pine and NS both said they'd respond about Blondie's alt answer no matter what the response was and neither chimed in at all once (s)he responded.

Strictly untrue in regards to me:

Blonde Doctor: Are you an alt?

Blonde Doctor, please answer this question. It's actually important.

I did not mean to miss this the first time, I apologize. I am not.

Unvote
Vote: Blonde Doctor

Newbie scumtells like a mofo. Go back and read BD's first few posts.

I firmly believe that BD's early actions are indicative of nervous, jumpy newbscum. That's the whole reason I asked. If they'd come from someone experienced, I'd be forced to believe they were genuine, as they were just so blatantly obvious and unveiled that I don't think any experienced player would make such blundering errors. But no, BD is a newbie, so they're all legit.

[Pine]

Okay, I'm caught up (finally). You people are spammy as shit.

Vote: Mogri

I agree.

[Pine]

I should really be VLA during finals week. Prodded

[Pine]

I'll give you three

great

reasons why my wagon is bad:

1. I'm town.
2. No one has been able to clearly articulate an argument for my lynch.
3. There are other players for whom there is much better evidence.

And really, what better argument could there be? The people voting for me are even lazier than I am. I've got one guy voting for me because I don't really care who replaced whom, I've got other guys voting for me because that's who they were voting for yesterday, and I have others still voting for who knows what reason. Sign me up. I'm convinced.

^Scumpost

Reason 1 can't be independently substantiated, discard it.
Reason 2 stinks of "caught for the wrong reasons," discard it.
Reason 3 is a nonspecific "anyone but me" cry. If he'd advocated someone specific, that might've been convincing. Discard it.
Reason 4 (lazy voters) is laced heavily with overtly defensive, and again nonspecific, sarcasm. Discard it and burn it with fire.

[Pine]

Explain what? "But whyyyy am I scum? You can't explain it!" That sounds a lot like "But that's not why you should be voting me!" Town generally don't do that, scum does it a lot.

[Pine]

That's really really lame, Hiraki. Not sure I buy it.

[Pine]

I'm down

Unvote
Vote: Hiraki

[Pine]

I am instinctively wary of Techno's assertion that NS scum = Hiraki scum. Using absolutes like that...it feels like a trap.

[Pine]

can you literally only post snippy retorts that dodge the point, shut up god damn

This is the kind of airtight argument that has me on the chopping block, ladies and gentlemen.

Which point did I dodge? If you examine it closely, you'll notice that my "snippy retort" addressed the core problem with your argument.

inte is still terrible and scum but so is mogri, his wagon is larger, this is a nightless game we should kill them both and nobody special can go too why is this so agonizing

Trans:

Let's just lynch everyone that anyone suspects and sort it out later.

Yep, this guy suuuuuuuuuure is town, all right.

Translation: "Graaaah, I'm caught for the wrong reasons!"

[Pine]

if he's caught for the wrong reasons then fucking vote him.

Correctly caught, but not for what HE considers the right reasons. It happens all the time when scum get wagoned and they can't figure out where they slipped up. Usually they didn't, they got wagoned and reacted badly, so they react even worse, and they get lynched. That's what's happening here. There's a kind of universal "BUT WHY? I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG!" vibe from them. Seriously, Crypto, learning the game is for the Newbie queue.

Unvote
Vote: Mogri

[Pine]

Translation: "Graaaah, I'm caught for the wrong reasons!"

You've said this twice now and I still don't know what you mean. What is the right reason to catch someone?

This is actually an excellent example of what I'm talking about. Techo has started to do it over Kairyuu's vote, too.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Techno

[Pine]

Correctly caught, but not for what HE considers the right reasons. It happens all the time when scum get wagoned and they can't figure out where they slipped up. Usually they didn't, they got wagoned and reacted badly, so they react even worse, and they get lynched. That's what's happening here. There's a kind of universal "BUT WHY? I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG!" vibe from them. Seriously, Crypto, learning the game is for the Newbie queue.

you are stupid as fuck

Not sure if kidding, or just trolling.

Or a moron yourself.

[Pine]

if he's caught for the wrong reasons then fucking vote him.

Read this as "if he's caught for the wrong reasons then don't fucking vote him."

Never mind. You're still an asshat, though.

[Pine]

I hate being Town with obvTown dickheads >_>

[Pine]

Translation: "Graaaah, I'm caught for the wrong reasons!"

You've said this twice now and I still don't know what you mean. What is the right reason to catch someone?

How about your extremely bad reaction to being wagoned.

[Pine]

Nah. Mogri is probably scum, but Techno's reaction to being voted was just LOLOBVSCUMCLAIMTIME

[Pine]

shut the fuck up, Scumraki. No one asked you.

[Pine]

just saiyan

i c wut u did thar

[Pine]

No, the reason I think you're scum is that you reacted badly to being wagoned. You still are. That isn't circular, it's observational.

[Pine]

@Mogri-This thread is boring and annoying. I don't work hard on threads I don't care about. D1 I was investigating Blonde Doctor (oh yeah, Kairyuu replaced that slot, hmmzorz), D2 I have focused on you, Hiraki, and Techno all in turn. Just because most of the scumhunting was directed at you doesn't make it non-existent.

In other news, I handed in my last final today. This (and my other games) now have a much less divided part of my attention, though Diablo III is about to consume a portion of that.

[Pine]

LAME

Needs a true single-player version. Don't want to rely on the internet

[Pine]

Srsly. Even if he's Town, he deserves it after that sanctimonious nonsense. Town doesn't give up and say "fuck you" to the rest of Town, they lay down their manifesto, their reads, and everything they can do to help Town once they get vindicated by flip. Look at Umbrage in the recently-finished Gay Mafia. He was a scummy dick and deserved to be lynched, even though he was Town. Then he's spent weeks of post-game lambasting the Town for having lynched him, when he practically put the noose around his own neck. Scum or necessary mislynch, Techno deserves the noose.

=====[]

[Pine]

Uber, you should really put a picture up in Face With a Name. The world deserves it.

[Pine]

Vote: Mogri

[Pine]

I am instinctively wary of Techno's assertion that NS scum = Hiraki scum. Using absolutes like that...it feels like a trap.

Translation: "Graaaah, I'm caught for the wrong reasons!"

You've said this twice now and I still don't know what you mean. What is the right reason to catch someone?

This is actually an excellent example of what I'm talking about. Techo has started to do it over Kairyuu's vote, too.

This is "no explanation" in your book, Kairyuu?

Ah, but right. You replaced Blonde Doctor, who was as clearly newbie-scum as I've seen in some time.

[Pine]

It's been the end of the semester. You'll note that there was a significant dip in my site-wide posting habits around the end of April that has recovered steadily through May, and that in the last week or so, I'm extremely active once again. It's been mostly consistent with this thread.

Give me some good reasons not to immediately label anything coming out of you as misinformation. I had Blonde Doctor as a pretty heavy scumread.

[Pine]

Oh hey, CF Riot, welcome to the obvTown table. I'll join you there when I stop being a derp.

[Pine]

Vote: Psyche

[Pine]

Possible. You have a very good point about the conspiracy to keep NS alive, though. No one seems to admit to thinking he's Town, but neither can any wagon on him seem to gain traction.

[Pine]

Your attack is pathetic and offensive and fuck you. Good luck at the whole "lynching me" thing from that.

This is a pretty solid scumpost. Was on the fence on you, Psyche, thanks for clearing it up.

Unvote
Vote: Psyche

Not groundless.

Psyche, for your future scumgames, it is a pretty clear signal that you're scum if you get all blustery and pompous when someone attacks you. Attacking the person instead of their arguments, or simply soldiering on and letting your scumhunting do the talking, is the sign of weak scum.

[Pine]

it is a pretty clear signal that you're scum if you get all blustery and pompous when someone attacks you. Attacking the person instead of their arguments, or simply soldiering on and letting your scumhunting do the talking, is the sign of weak scum.

hey, that's some neat armchair psychology there but

argumenta ad hominem

are fallacies, not scum tells. when someone makes an

ad hom

attack in a religious debate, it isn't because they're aligned with the mafia. there's no secret clause in the forum mafia bible that says scum must be incompetent/fallacious. if psyche is capable of attacking arguments instead of the people behind them then he will do so as both town and mafia – he won't get in trouble with the big man upstairs if he doesn't go out of his way to act like an idiot when he's mafia. if he is incapable of doing so then he isn't necessarily scum.

Ad homming is scummy. Making logical fallacies is scummy.

Possible. You have a very good point about the conspiracy to keep NS alive, though. No one seems to admit to thinking he's Town, but neither can any wagon on him seem to gain traction.

EXACTLY MY FUCKING POINT

WHAT THE FUCK

Pine looks slightly townier now

wrong, hes scummier. no vote = cognitive dissonance

i mean, unless you're scum buddies with him. then hats off

guys, whys mafia so easy

pedit: i was on the Nobody Special wagon before it was cool buddy

Saying "Hey, that's odd" is not the same as "OH MY GOD THIS GUY IS SO SCUMMY I'VE GOT TO ABANDON ALL OTHER READS." Lrn 2 attack better.

[Pine]

Hmm. Didn't realize it was so viable until I actually read that vote count (accidentally submitted the above post before I read this page)

@Nobody Special: You've really got to change your meta on this. It's really frustrating to play with you, and you're getting close to policy lynch territory, even for people like me, who happen to like you.

Unvote
Vote: Nobody Special

[Pine]

Vote: Psyche

[Pine]

I could see Noraaa scum

[Pine]

Because Psyche is using his vote as a weapon, to either scare people off his wagon or start one that will distract from it. He's not actually been consistently voting serious scumreads, which indicates he doesn't really have any.

[Pine]

1370 was not fencesitting, and if it came off as such, let me rectify that - I think Noraaa's pattern of behavior, who she's pushed and how, and her opportunistic attitude all look scummy to me, and I'd be willing to support a wagon on her

[Pine]

At work, I'll elaborate when I get home

[Pine]

No, it really isn't.

[Pine]

There was a part of the game where Matias was active and engaged on a consistent basis? Enlighten me.

[Pine]

These voteless accusations worry me

Then fuck you. If you're seriously pushing the idea that someone can't have more than one scumread at a time, then just fuck you. Lrn 2 mafia

[Pine]

After re-reading BK, I'm sticking with my vote. Everything he posted stuck with a safe stance.

I.... completely agree. I just ISO'd him and you're so right it's scary.
I also seem to be spotting some loose connection between BK201 and noraaa FWIW. I will look into that later.

And,

Pine has also 100% failed to deliver. He hasn't even

mentioned

what I asked for yet.

Vote: Pine

This can also be a vote for BK201.

You guys know what to do.

I'll get to it when I damn well get to it. You are not my mother, and I have a busy life. I worked until past midnight, came home and collapsed. I left by 7 AM and was without internet access today as well. I just got home, and forgive me, but I'm going to go play Diablo III until I beat it. Then, if I have time, I'm not too tired, and bloody well feel like it, I'll compose a more complete case on a secondary scumread of mine.

Until then, kindly shove it.

[Pine]

[Pine]

Nope, not scum. Just disinterested with this game. Diablo 3 and whipping Town's ass at DC Universe mafia.

zzzz

[Pine]

Uberninja, in my opinion there's only one effective scumtell that is consistent with me. If I'm heavily involved in a game and seem to be obsessed, it's because I'm scum and totally preoccupied. I don't like being Town. I prefer scum.

That strike you as applying to this game?

I don't really see a real case on BK. It's weaksauce, and seems to have gained strength as a counterwagon to the correct lynch for today, Psyche.

[Pine]

Self meta is fucking useless.

So is reading the aftermath of a 100+ page game (including the archive from tiger attack) and thinking you can use it as meta.

I never lie about my meta, either. Who does? It's useless, as a lie will only get you into deeper trouble.

Can someone actually make a cogent case on BK? I haven't see one yet, just drips and drabs that coalesce into a counterwagon against my chief suspect. I mean, look at Psyche's "study". It's clearly bogus. There's no way he actually read the hundred or so games he's suggesting, which makes it more likely that he was skimming of CTRL-F searching them for points to use as weapons rather than actual insight. Notice also the last point of 1545. He says "I'm not scummy," rather than "I'm not scum." Town says the latter, scum says the former.

[Pine]

Scum tends to insist that they're not acting scummy, because they are chiefly concerned with

perception

and how others view them.

Town tends to give a flat denial that they're scum, because 1) They're not concerned about the possibility of a Lie Detector, though this game won't have one, 2) It's the truth, 3) Town tends to be more concerned with facts over others' perceptions of them, and 4) Town is much more likely to admit to their own faults.

I've been admittedly lurky and inattentive in this game, mostly because I just don't care very much about it. You denying that you're even acting scummy when you clearly are is a pretty reasonable scumtell, though it isn't of the strongest variety. Not really strong enough to base a case on, but it's one more point against you.

PE: Statistics are ALWAYS bogus, as are the morons who think they're worth anything. They only become relevant when you take into account an enormous sample size, which you have not. One thousand probably wouldn't be enough, and a hundred damn well isn't, especially when it ends up with a number like 4/10, which is smack dab in the middle of "not statistically relevant."

[Pine]

You're not even telling the truth about your stats now. You didn't search 100 games, you searched for 100 instances of a particular phrase over the course of barely a dozen games. That's not good science, as you would pass it off, it's lazy attack-trolling. Stop trying to pass off weak statistics as a valid substitute for experience. I tried it once, and it invariably is wrong. Statistics are VERY VERY bad at proving anything small, and especially bad at proving human behavior, which is exceptionally variable. The only good statistics are for human behavior is in making general statements about LARGR populations, which we don't have on this site. It completely fails when asked to judge the actions of an individual based on a half-assed study of a minute population. Real statisticians know this, which is why they never try, except in the aforementioned large trends.

You're going to be forgiven for this, as you're what? Sixteen? Seventeen? Still in high school at any rate, and trying to apply basic principles from your introductory classes in higher mathematics.

Also because you're scum, and I always applaud valiant efforts by scum at creating something from nothing.

[Pine]

Okay, you're wrong again. It was over 30 games, and I NEVER said I studied 100 games. PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THE FACTS.

This is Large Normal

152

. In what way is thirty the "vast majority of cases"? Even 152 is barely a large enough sample size for statistically-significant observations to credibly be made, and in any case, they are not correct in this instance, and therefore irrelevant.

Self meta is fucking useless.

So is reading the aftermath of a 100+ page game (including the archive from tiger attack) and thinking you can use it as meta.

Are you srsly trying to use the argument "someone else is more useless than me, lynch him first!" with me?

I will fucking end you, boy.

That's not even remotely what I said,

little girl

. At this point, you've got confirmation bias clouding your judgment, and you're not actually reading my posts. I'm saying you read the very end of a 100+ page conversation and drew a monumentally wrong conclusion from that. I supplied the correct conclusion, and you ignored it.

Further, I am not making the argument that Psyche is "more useless," I'm saying he is actively counterproductive and scummy. There is a significant difference there, as the former is a passive, defensive argument, whereas mine is an active attack on someone I find likely to be scum.

[Pine]

Again, someone please articulate the BK case.

[Pine]

ok well im back

psyche still sucks and pine is still a dick

"Dick" isn't relevant. UN is confirmation-biased, and Psyche is scum. I'm simply correct, and that's what IS relevant.

...and am unsure of what constitutes a scumtell*

This is obvious in abundance.

[Pine]

UberNinja, please explain how you went from conducting a crusade against Psyche for most of the game to actively defending him, to the point of ridiculing and chainsawing those who vote for him. I just went through your ISO, and it's a pretty sudden and wholly unexplained change.

[Pine]

Psyche has a number of problems, but nothing nearly as bad as BK conspicuously and continually voting ONLY for counterwagons to the redFF wagon.

Considering that the above is the only cogent case I've seen made against him, he's not a priority. Certainly not enough of one to warrant your behavior.

[Pine]

That's a better fucking case than the "case" on Psyche.

Plus my nagging gut feel that Psyche is town.

This is completely incongruous with your previous statements.

Unvote
Vote: UberNinja

I feel good about this.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Psyche

Nah. As much as my suspicion of UberNinja is peaking, it doesn't make sense to abandon a wagon on someone that's at least as likely to be scum. UberNinja tomorrow.

[Pine]

Our metas are based on experience and subjective, holistic assessments. Yours are based on document searches of a particular phrase from a very few games that you didn't bother to read in context.

Ergo, your statistics are invalid, while assessments from people who've played a dozen and more actual, full games with one another will be listened to.

[Pine]

Hours? That's it? Yes, that does indeed pale in comparison to months or years of playing thousands of pages of actual games. You're trying to substitute cleverness for experience, and failing.

[Pine]

So, let me get this straight...you think I'm buddies with BK, who you think was buddies with RedFF...so you're suggesting that in a sixteen-player game, we have two scumteams of three each, making the starting numbers 10 v 3 v 3?

Unlikely. Try again.

[Pine]

I'm seeing a Psyche-UN team, quite frankly.

[Pine]

Lol, 1663 is a WIFOM salad

[Pine]

Vitriol? You've hurled accusation after accusation at her and completely failed to back it up. Granted, I haven't made a cogent case against her either, but my scumread is weak and admittedly incomplete, while you've gone at her like she was claimed scum for fuck's sake.

[Pine]

I know, right?

Do me a favor and turbolynch Psyche and UberNinja when I flip Town, k? No particular order, though Psyche is the one that makes sense with the current wagons.

[Pine]

Ad hom attacks are helping your case, Psyche. Good job!

[Pine]

It's not late game, Crypto. Last time there was a Ythan nightless, it went like 10 days.

Psyche, you're deliberately twisting my words now. Stop it. The case I was referring to is your own protestations of Towniness. Ad hominem attacks do not help you in that regard.

[Pine]

Oh hey, UberNinja is back to thinking Psyche is scum, after defending the shit out of him and chainsawing people who attacked him. Cool story, bro.

[Pine]

Vote: UberNinja

Pretty confident that UberNinja and Psyche lynches will net us at least one, maybe two scum. UberNinja in particular is throwing off all kinds of crazy associative tells to Psyche.

[Pine]

Pine, why vote UberNinja, and not Psyche?

As I repeatedly said on Day 5, my vote was on the Psyche wagon as it had more momentum and more chance of success. Given the vote reset, I'd rather explore the other one for now.

Vote: Psyche

Self explanatory.

Yeah, seriously, after all the defending of Psyche and chainsawing you did for him? This is not acceptable.

Not entirely sure why I was so convinced of 2-2-12. That looks heavily imbalanced against scum. Thinking noraaa might be the third blue, but we can circle back to that.

[Pine]

The only decent argument for BK scum was that he was on all of the RedFF counterwagons. Your phony statistics still suck.

[Pine]

Except you didn't do any real work there, you just quoted Ythan a lot and color-coded. I see no actual insight, or attempts at making inference.

Also, that's at least the third time Psyche's said that I've misrepped him for "the seventh time." It's getting annoying. Stating my opinion on your posts is not misrepresentation, and it isn't lying. Lrn 2 mafia.

[Pine]

Pine-
Considering that I thought mogri was, at the time "the scummier of the two" between him and red (during my iso), and so voted him D1, and that I was on BK most of day 5 until I switched over to UN for a bit, I'm not sure why you'd think that. But those are the only connections I see between us except for the fact that BK kept thinking I was scum for being conversational and "apologetic" and "forced" in my conversation D1. It's up to you, but I'm not scum, dude. How have your reads changed over this last day? Are you still heavy on inte, or has he taken a less prominent place in your mind? Will UN's alignment reveal Psyche's alignment to you regardless of how UN flips?

My bluescum read on you is mostly gut, and your pointed protestations only solidify that feeling. My reads, except on BK, have not changed at all with the flip. I didn't think Psyche/UN were BK's buddies, given how viciously UN was going after him. Pretty obv that she was going after the opposition. Inte's never been much more than null in my mind. He's done some odd things, but there's far more notable people in this game. UN and Psyche are scummy independently of one another, but a scumflip out of one will make the other an urgent necessity.

[Pine]

By the by, UberNinja's ultimatum at the end of her last post reads as scared to me. Especially considering that she was defending and chainsawing for Psyche barely a few days ago.

[Pine]

Nightless=daytalk

[Pine]

Both of Ythan's previous Nightless games have featured Mafia daytalk. Shut up about this non-point.

[Pine]

There is little I detest more than bogus, easily-defeated accusations being lobbed gently over the plate to someone that's actually scummy. Especially by an obvious scumbuddy. Defeating a bad attack makes them look like wrongfully-accused Town, and gives them credit they neither earned nor deserve.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Psyche

Same logic as before. I'm willing to go with the more viable of the two clear scum candidates.

[Pine]

I'm down with the possibiliy of Defender being scum. He replaced Blonde Doctor, recall, who was pretty scummy, and Kairyuu, who failed to redeem the slot. Noraaa/Defender/Psyche/UberNinja looks about right for remaining scum.

[Pine]

Hiraki's probably Town.

Vote: UberNinja

Also willing to vote for Defender.

[Pine]

Since when is my vote on you OMGUS, UN? I have a very well-reasoned, logical basis for my vote that I've fully explained.

Add into the case your tendency to diminish and belittle others' cases that you don't agree with, and inflating your own. Scum tactics 101

[Pine]

Before the wagon on me started, I was just about town. What "obvscum" or "scumslip" moves have I made in the past few game days?

This, for starters.

[Pine]

explain how that's a slip pine

He's trying to figure out where he made a mistake. Town Defender wouldn't be thinking "Oh crap I made a mistake," he'd be trying to figure out who the scum are.

Before the wagon on me started, I was just about town. What "obvscum" or "scumslip" moves have I made in the past few game days?

This, for starters.

vote him already god damn it

I thought I did? Just to be sure

Unvote
Vote: Defender

[Pine]

That's not what I said. At all. His comment was self-concerned, not outwardly-concerned. It was "Oh crap, did I make a mistake?" not "Screw you people, I've been lurky but I'm Town. Here's who's actual scum."

Town generally don't fight their own lynch to the exclusion of all else, they go down swinging.

[Pine]

Umm, no. I'm

interpreting

. I perceive an inordinate need for self-preservation in his post, at the expense of the scumhunting he ought to have been doing.

[Pine]

What? Blonde Doctor's conduct ALONE is enough to condemn anyone that replaced him. In that lens, the motives and intentions of Defender's recent statements are really easy to dissect.

Come on Hiraki. Step it up.

[Pine]

Particularly as you have Defender on your own scumlist, that reversal is really out of place.

[Pine]

My point is that it's really strange that you criticize me for finding him genuinely scummy, when you've come to a similar conclusion by other means.

[Pine]

That isn't what I'm saying at all.

You criticized me for finding him scummy, despite the fact that you agree for different reasons. Professor X and Magneto agree on some things and oppose one another on others, but they aren't enemies for the things they agree on.

You're criticizing me for what we agree on, which is weird.

[Pine]

Da fuk?

Whatever. Put your money where your mouth is, and let's lynch Defender. I've made peace with the likelihood that I'm going to get railroaded eventually, so one more opinion against me means little. What does is getting scum lynched before I go.

[Pine]

Nora you still think UN is town?

IDK is UN usually a horrible, horrible player? Cause if so, then yeah, he's town. If not, then he's scum. I've felt he was either being very tunnelly dumb or very manipulative all day, and he certainly pushes hard and fast but I think that's just his personality. I think to get a better idea I'll have to meta besides just iso.

WHOA FALSE DICHOTOMY

Da fuk?

Whatever. Put your money where your mouth is, and let's lynch Defender. I've made peace with the likelihood that I'm going to get railroaded eventually, so one more opinion against me means little. What does is getting scum lynched before I go.

this absolutely fucking reeks of "red" scum wanting to finish off blue scum before his own death

kill this with fire, i tell you

WITH FIRE

This is a bona fide scumslip. How in the hell would UN have the first idea what color someone was before they flipped?

When I flip Town, please come back to this post. I'm 100% serious.

[Pine]

huh? i'm playing with the assumption there are two scum teams. i am also playing with the assumption that non-blue (assuming red) scum has 2 more players than blue scum

i just showed where you scum slipped
and now you're trying to say i did?

loooooooool

No, actually, you didn't. You called me a specific color, and I'm wondering how you would know that I'm not the other one. Town has no insight into what color a scummy person is, except by associative tells, and you didn't cite any. I don't believe you ever have, in fact, not against me. So we come again, what caused you to assign a specific color to me? Is it that you're red, and therefore any other scum, as you seem to believe me to be,

must

be the last blue?

See? That's a color assignment based on actual inference, and logical as well.

Also, please point out this supposed scumslip I made. This is the first you've mentioned it.

Vote: UberNinja

[Pine]

Oh, and by the way? I

fucking told

you people that Blonde Doctor was leaking newbie scumtells ALL OVER, and nobody fucking listened. Dickheads.

[Pine]

Quick analysis of associations from Blonde Doctor's posts:

Matias is NOT redscum, given BD's serious attack there. Too strong and serious for newbiescum.
Noraaa looks like a very good candidate for BD scumbuddy, given their relationship in BD's first few posts, and BD's soft defense of Noraaa, which only becomes more blatant in posts 125 and 126.
Petapan also unlikely as scumbuddy, because of several adversarial interactions with BB. Not clumsy enough to be intentional distancing.

[Pine]

Quick analysis of associations from Blonde Doctor's posts:

Matias is NOT redscum, given BD's serious attack there. Too strong and serious for newbiescum.
Noraaa looks like a very good candidate for BD scumbuddy, given their relationship in BD's first few posts, and BD's soft defense of Noraaa, which only becomes more blatant in posts 125 and 126.
Petapan also unlikely as scumbuddy,

because of several adversarial interactions with BB

. Not clumsy enough to be intentional distancing.

BBMolla was your predecessor. Try reading all of it next time.

[Pine]

Also, I considered BD +/- crypto, but the interactions were too vague to draw a solid conclusion. There was some adversarial interaction, and there was some genial, but neither was out of the abilities of newbiescum in interacting with Town or scum.

[Pine]

Successful lynch wagons

RedFF (Blue)

: Hiraki,

Mogri

,

TeChNoWC

, UberNinja, mb53,

Psyche

, crypto, petapan, inte

Technowc (Town)

:

Kairyuu

, UberNinja,

Pine

,

Nobody Special, Mogri

, noraaa,

TeChNoWC, Psyche

Mogri (Town)

:

Pine

, Hiraki, petapan, crypto,

Nobody Special, Psyche

,

BK201

, inte

Nobody Special (Town)

: crypto, inte, UberNinja,

Psyche

, CF Riot, noraaa,

Pine

BK201 (Blue)

: Matias, UberNinja, crypto,

D3f3nd3r

,

Psyche

, noraaa, inte

Psyche (Town)

: UberNinja, inte,

D3f3nd3r

, Hiraki,

Pine

, CF Riot

Defender (Red)

: Matias, noraaa, petapan,

Pine

, crypto, Hiraki

On both blue wagons: UberNinja,

Psyche

, inte, crypto <--I consider all three of these (that remain) unlikely to be the last blue Mafia member.

Hiraki - 4 (Blue/Town/Town/Red)
UberNinja - 5 (Blue/Town/Town/Blue/Town)
mb53/CF Riot - 2 (Blue/Town)
crypto - 5 (Blue/Town/Town/Blue/Red)
petapan - 3 (Blue/Town/Red)
inte - 5 (Blue/Town/Town/Blue/Town)
noraaa - 4 (Town/Town/Blue/Red)
Matias - 2 (Blue/Red)
Pine - 5 (Town/Town/Town/Town/Red) (Ummm, I think I just made a serious case against myself for last Blue, but I can accept that)

Voting records are suggesting to me that Crypto, petapan, and Matias are Town. This is corroborated by their general Towniness. At this point, we could simply lynch EVERYONE else, and be safe until endgame, but that kind of cockiness...well, it didn't work out in the last Ythan Nightless. And where's the fun in it, anyway?

petapan

- Not Blue, voting record

crypto

- Not Blue, voting record.
Hiraki - Generally Townie behavior, but recent odd actions
inte - Generally Townie behavior, but erratic

Matias

- Definitely not Red (BD interaction), voting record obvTown.
CF Riot - Somewhat of an enigma to me. I can't get a solid read. Only scum lynch was D1 RedFF
noraaa - Probable scum, given generally scummy behavior and opportunism. Possibly Red, given interaction with Blonde Doctor. Was in the middle of the Defender wagon, but the Defender slot had been dead weight all game.

Pine

- This is from my perspective, and I know I'm Town. So fuck off if you have a problem with this.
UberNinja - Not Blue, Very likely Red given aggressive lynching of Townies, erratic behavior, manipulation of the facts, flip-flopping on Psyche, and recent scumslip.

Not sure who the last Blue is, though I realize I just painted a big target on my own back and wouldn't fault the Town for lynching me for it. I have a reasonable amount of confidence that the remaining Reds are UberNinja and noraaa, based on their voting records and associations

[Pine]

Okay, so it's entirely speculation with no grounds, got it. For a second there, I thought you were going to make a case based on something other than your fantasies, but I guess not.

Still waiting for this alleged "scumslip."

[Pine]

I can join this wagon if this is proven

manipulation of the facts

Seriously, Hiraki? Read the god-damned thread. 2088 is such an enormous vomit of WIFOM and after-the-fact manipulation that it's sickening.

Want a hard and fast example? First few lines of 2088. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that I've said about UN's scumslip that indicated I thought she was Blue scum. She HAS YET to provide any reasoning or supporting evidence for why she assigned me to the Red scumteam, and Townies just DON'T make that kind of arbitrary designation in multiscum without solid reasoning, as I later did for eliminating her from candidacy for the last Blue scum.

Making an arbitrary leap without reason, then accusing me of doing practically the same thing when the inverse was true is "manipulation of the facts." I mean, Christ, look at her flip-flopping on Psyche! She was all over the goddamned map on him, buddying up to him and defending him when she wanted his support, and tearing him apart when he was safe to get rid of.

[Pine]

conclusion:

pine is scum and is trying to use this "town momentum" along with me being wrong about psyche and defender (IN A ROW ) to try to get a mislynch on me and it is scummy as fuck

This statement too. I've been on UberNinja for at least a week and a half now, by myself for most of it. And now she's trying to construe my attack as opportunistically trying to get a "mislynch" using momentum that didn't exist until a day or two ago.

Scum flail 101

[Pine]

No.

Noraaa is MUCH MUCH more likely, though I'll grant you that Hiraki is in my top suspects for the last blue

[Pine]

Vote: Noraaa

[Pine]

The interaction between Blonde Doctor and Noraaa strongly link them in my mind.

I'll back your play if you'll back mine though. Pretty decent chance of Hirakiscum here.

VOTE: Hiraki

[Pine]

Noraaa definitely. Need to reevaluate this in light of 8-4-4

[Pine]

Vote: Noraaa

[Pine]

Indeed. I'm stuck with just my phone until this evening, but I'm ready

[Pine]

Okay.

From my perspective, VCA is almost certainly unnecessary at this point. Petapan and crypto are practically confirmed Town, and I know I'm Town. That leaves two scum within {noraaa, CF Riot, Matias}. Interactions strongly suggest noraaa to be redscum, and mb53 was a blue-driven counterwagon to RedFF, so he's not blue. Ergo, by PoE, Matias is probably the last bluescum.

I'm ambivalent as to who goes first, but today/tomorrow should be Matias and Noraaa.

[Pine]

I'll follow Crypto & Petapan's collective lead as to order, they haven't led us astray yet. The only way I can see them being scum is if both are, with them both employing massive bussing tactics.

[Pine]

I'm not seeing Noraaa Town, really.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Matias

K, let's do this.

[Pine]

Seriously? We're waiting on Noraaa for some reason. I'm only like seven posts back.

[Pine]

Same.

[Pine]

Not entirely sure why all of this matters.

Town wins as long as it has two people that we're sure are Townies. Lynch the rest.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Matias

I know my vote was already here. I'm ready to move things along.

[Pine]

Not dead until declared by Mod

[Pine]

I think 8:4:4 was a little rough on Town. This was one of the most fun games I've played in a while, though.

[Pine]

Which was probably a bit rough on scum.

[Pine]

I think there's some got to be some powerful voodoo around whatever slot BBMolla occupies in these nightless setups.

[Pine]

yeah you don't get to rage at your teammates post game when you suck, Uber.

This. You were pretty obvious, though you get credit right back for deflecting it so long.

Psyche...seriously, this is why research projects are okay for MD, but not in live games. Statistics are BAD BAD BAD. You don't have even a fraction of a fraction of the sample size you'd need to make general statements. Every result you posted is Not Statistically Significant. Please don't pull that kind of nonsense again. You didn't lose the game for us, but it did distract us for days.

Nobody Special, I swear to God. Seriously, man, I like you and enjoy a lot of things about playing with you, but your turbo-lurker strategy is NOT PRO TOWN.

STOP IT

, or I will commence policy lynching you.

[Pine]

Eh. I tend to be a late bloomer. The more information and flips I have, the better I get. I know, so does everyone, but I'm usually utter rubbish in the early game, and right on the ball in late game.