Always On (Photo of Prize is Up!)

[Nuwen]

I haven't been reading your posts since you unvoted Trollie, Pinkie.

Amrun is telling me things that are internally inconsistent. In Nuwenland, this makes people scum or not worth keeping around.

First, Esurio is accurate reporting that NS and Matt are the biggest offenders re: scumread in public / town-treatment in private. I asked Amrun to give me a timeline vis a vis Matt, and it looks like this.

• Matt tries to sell his Trollie case to Amrun. Matt summarizes in private and asks for Amrun's vote.
  
• Amrun declines to decide, listens to case and says she wasn't fully caught up.
  
• Amrun returns from VL/A and puts a vote on Trollie (I call this end of a wagon the 'designated bus seats')

I then asked why Amrun thought this mattered if she believed Trollie to be scum, because that would make Mattp pretty damn town. His read change as a result of her delay is VERY REASONABLE coming from town and makes quite a bit of sense if Matt were trying to narrow down Amrun's buddies.

Amrun agreed, Matt is town. There is no way this suggests otherwise.

So I'm a little baffled here - trying to reconcile with a town read? The real inconsistency is here,

Amrun: so i think i'll probably get lynched
Amrun: but maybe that's a good thing, idk

[...]

Nuwen: You just said you think it's suspicious that a bunch of people suddenly changed their reads on you, WHILE one of your scumreads has a healthy wagon - i.e. a counterwagon is brewing if he's scum, and YOU'RE it.
Nuwen: Your lynch would be a good thing if it freed up town votes to do other things
Nuwen: But in the matrix where you think Trollie is scum, you have to also think his buddies are the ones coming out of the woodwork on your wagon

Which, by Amrun's criterion... would be Nobody Special and Matt?

Nobody Special provided Amrun with information that somebody claimed something to him, around the time NS was voting for the Trollie. NS is currently voting for Amrun and has cut contact with her.

Like I said, this scumhunting is EXTREMELY INTERNALLY INCONSISTENT... like, it wouldn't lead you in the right direction in a million years if you're trying to figure out who scum are. That's both an indication of BEING scum or being a bad scumhunter. I asked Amrun to claim to me in private and she declined to answer, saying that she'd claim at L-1 if run up. I could lynch it.

My only trepidation here is... where's that counterwagon? We don't have two live scum and town offwagoners (the Greyice slot). We

do

have a shitton of people NOT VOTING AT ALL, but with scum teams supposedly unaware of each other this doesn't make much sense; scum wouldn't be blocing; there would be feelers everywhere.

TheTrollie, Espeonage, Mastermind of Sin, hitogoroshi, Nobody Special, DeathRowKitty

If we have two live scum, this sure is a lot of fucking offvoters. The only explanation for that would be 2 live from from DIFFERENT TEAMS (with each set of buddies waffling about... unsure how to start a mislynch), or that the teams have somehow communicated with each other without being caught by town (and are unwilling to vote in either direction). So there's that.

Lynch Trollie imo.

[Amrun]

Nuwen, how do you not understand that you weren't asking me about scumhunting? You were asking me about the thing I said and why I said it, which had very little to do with scumhunting. Whatever.

[BBmolla]

Hi guys

Will post contact info, need to do theatre stuff today so will be away from computer. Feel free to text me I suppose. Oh I'm free tomorrow for some calls and shit.

Also, hope Bitmap is town because-
OH BITMAP YOU ASS HOLE WHY'D YOU REPLACE OUT

...

...Well I'll be hanging out in the mumble when I'm actually home, look around or ask to find the info.

[Nuwen]

Nuwen, how do you not understand that you weren't asking me about scumhunting? You were asking me about the thing I said and why I said it, which had very little to do with scumhunting. Whatever.

Right, that's what makes it internally inconsistent. You contacted Esurio and said

Amrun: like some of the people who all of a sudden came out with scumreads on me
Amrun: were like
Amrun: sharing confidences with me
Amrun: and shit

Amrun: it makes no sense to me

Of your own accord. If this isn't something you're using to scumhunt, why are you wasting someone time with it? Worth mentioning to someone else even though it's a null thing? I mean, what "makes no sense." In chat, I explained to you that Mattp's scum read makes VERY MUCH SENSE coming from a town player who believed he caught scum early (and used that to catch more scum).

This gets back to what I said about you being scum or just completely unaware of how to actually catch scum by anything other than luck.

[Nuwen]

LLD, you free tonight?

[Amrun]

Yes, but MattP, whom we were talking about, I have a confident town read on. Town does all sorts of things that make no sense. esurio and I were talking about it, and saying that wasn't strange in context (well, at least from my perspective). My scum suspects are generally more accurate than inaccurate, though, of course, sometimes I am just wrong. I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT SCUMHUNTING THERE, because of the people I was talking about, I have already used that to help determine alignment and made my mind up about it. NS, it helped turn my town read around to scum, but Matt, I decided it was a playstyle thing unique to this mechanic. I already said that to you but you don't get it.

[Nuwen]

In a game where signal:noise ratio is high,

why is it valuable to talk about the weird things a town read is doing

? Answers include "to segue into having a not-town read, later" or "poison dat" "I'm a big waste of your time!"

A town read doing things that "don't make sense" should take much lower priority than rooting out the friends of the scum you recently decided was scum. If what you told me is correct and true in your mind, these things happened:

1. Matt makes passionate Trollie case to Amrun, asks for her vote.
2. Amrun, citing VLA/not reading, declines to vote or make a decision on Trollie.
3. Amrun returns and votes for Staeg, but
4. Had made a deal with Matt, vote forced on to Trollie.

So you suddenly reconciled with the Trollie read, or at least allowed Matt to convince you enough to lend him your vote. Where's the new town perspective? Why are STRANGE STRANGE, DON'TMAKESENSE (read: utterly reasonable) things your town reads doing taking up the space in your brainmeat.

If I use the words internally inconsistent again my brain is going to explode.

[Amrun]

No, wrong. You have your time lines all mixed up.

I was talking about it because you ASKED me about it, not because I wanted to clog the thread up with it. That's also why I said I'd tell you over aim, because it's not really important. I only mentioned my emotional state because it WILL affect how I react to things in thread, and if I was looking at reading someone, it's something I would want to know. I have since re-thought and decided this will be wildly misinterpreted, but it is the truth.

It was more like this:

1. Matt talks to me while v/la, says Trollie is scum, asks me to catch up, talks about it a bit
2. I tell him I'll catch up the next day; I do this
3. After reading, I decide Trollie is probably scum.
4. MoS points out Trollie's potential town tell; MoS and I talk about this privately. I decide it is a valid, but not 100%, tell. I unvote.
5. Matt talks to me privately and makes a passionate Trollie case. It is convincing, but I am still not totally willing to vote Trollie, because of other misgivings. We make a vote deal.
6. Later on, I kind of forget my vote wasn't on Reck, where it would most naturally be, and when I decide to unvote Reck, move my vote to Staeg because of Bitmap.
7. I remember I wasn't even voting Reck to begin with and put my vote back on Trollie re: deal.

If you don't re-evaluate your town reads constantly, then YOU'RE the one who's a waste of time. Try reading the thread next time.

[Amrun]

Oh woops, I don't actually unvote in 4. I meant I remove my suspicion of trollie. Idk why i said it that way.

[DeathRowKitty]

Amrun: i am probably going to vot [deleted by me]
Amrun: i want to sit on it at least for a few hours [more stuff deleted by me]
Me: but isn't your vote stuck on trollie?
Amrun: OH GOD
Amrun: i forgot again

Amrun forgetting her vote is stuck on trollie is a town tell. Discuss.

[Grimmjow]

I don't understand how that's a town tell. Scum could just as easily forget their vote was somewhere, or could be using "forgetting" to come off as town.

[MattP]

Shhh Grimm don't let drk think he was actually wrong about another read

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm not going to believe that Amrun pretended to forget her deal with Matt to come across as more town.

As for why I find it to be a town tell
1) I would expect scumrun to have the deal on her mind more than townrun.
2) It makes more sense for town to be so focused on finding scum that they forget about a deal like this than it does for scum to be so focused on finding scum/fake scumhunting that they forget about it.

[esuriospiritus]

2) makes sense at least.

[InflatablePie]

nulltell.

[DeathRowKitty]

Then I should explain 1), I guess.

Scum have to worry more about what they're going to be doing in the future. I would expect scumrun to think of her deal with MattP while thinking about what she's going to be doing-especially since scumrun would probably be more worried about who would make a good counterwagon to her own.

[DeathRowKitty]

nulltell.

Your mom's a null tell.

[zoraster]

Day 1

Agar ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 12 )

Amrun ( 3 )

InflatablePie

Grimmjow

Agar

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(L - 9 )

Staeg ( 0 )

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(L - 12 )

DeasVail ( 0 )

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(L - 12 )

DeathRowKitty ( 0 )

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(L - 12 )

Espeonage ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 12 )

esuriospiritus ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 12 )

Fate ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 12 )

BBMolla ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 12 )

Grimmjow ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 12 )

hitogoroshi ( 0 )

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(L - 12 )

InflatablePie ( 0 )

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(L - 12 )

kdowns ( 0 )

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(L - 12 )

Lady Lambdadelta ( 0 )

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(L - 12 )

Mastermind of Sin ( 0 )

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(L - 12 )

MattP ( 0 )

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(L - 12 )

Nachomamma8 ( 0 )

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(L - 12 )

Nobody Special ( 1 )

TeChNoWC

[/color]

(L - 11 )

Nuwen ( 2 )

esuriospiritus

Lady Lambdadelta

[/color]

(L - 10 )

TheTrollie ( 8 )

MattP

Nachomamma8

kdowns

Fate

Nuwen

DeasVail

Staeg

Amrun

[/color]

(L - 4 )

xReckonerx ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 12 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

Not Voting ( 6 )

TheTrollie Espeonage Mastermind of Sin hitogoroshi Nobody Special DeathRowKitty

Total Votes ( 20 )

Needed to Lynch [ 12 ]

Deadline: August. 8th at 08:00 EDT

@zoraster

If you're allowed to answer this, did scum get a QT?

Yes.

[InflatablePie]

nulltell.

Your mom's a null tell.

Your face is a null tell.

[DeathRowKitty]

Thanks, zor

So the reason I asked if scum got a QT:

Let's say that trollie absolutely hates reading. He didn't read the rules, he read the first line of his role PM and saw he was scum, he didn't read anything zoraster wrote about the mechanics of the two scum teams. Believing that trollie really didn't know which scum team had a kill now also requires believing that his scum team didn't discuss that game mechanic at all in their QT. Scum were able to talk before the game started. What else would they have talked about?

[Staeg]

Uhh, if they had no QT they would just make some other form of communication, so this doesn't change anything at all...?

[InflatablePie]

skimming through the Amrun wall (454/ISO 12) and general iso

In general, I find your read of me bad [@me], but I think it aligns with how you would read me as town.

Concise-ness is protown. Amrun could have easily said something like, "your read is bad, but you're town". The way this is worded, you can later say "Well, I did say that I

think

this is how you would read me

if you were town

. The unnecessary additions to the sentence make me feel a bit uneasy.

Beyond those things, I wanted to take this time to discuss some other things. First, TheTrollie. I do not understand how any of his reactions make any sort of sense as town, BUT it's sooo ridiculously scummy that I am paranoid. However, he hasn't struck me as incompetent before this, so...

waffle waffle waffle waffle

I think I had a townread on MoS before but I can't remember why and I'm feeling vaguely scummish on him as well. He said to me that he thinks Reck's scumslip could have been genuine, but the way he's gone about pushing it has come across as very fence-sitty and wishy washy.

Let me ISO MoS for a second.

Vote: Reck

Hangout successful. First scumslip detected. Win.

They're avoiding you[, NS,] because you're annoying them most likely.

Unvote

Uhhhhhhhh yeah

this seems REALLY WISHY WASHY ALRIGHT /s

Unless you have any sort of private convo with MoS you didn't share with the class, you just completely made this shit up.

Plus now I think I have a townread on MoS again.

WAFFLE WAFFLE WAFFLE WAFFLE

In others news, the happenings of the last 10 pages or so actually DO feel like Reck-town, but your awkward reaction to that scum slip gave me a very hard to shake scum read on you. It's not about the words, because anyone can misspeak, but your reaction to them.

I mean what kind of reaction would have happened in response to that "scum slip" that would've made you go "oh nvm that was a town reaction"

like my reaction was to roll my eyes and take it as a joke Freudian slip rather than go NO NO WAIT FUCK YOU ALL I DIDN'T MEAN IT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

See, I disagree about your reaction. After you said it and people reacted, the look on your face read to me as a distinctly "oh shit I just fucked up"" look, and there was an awkward pause, and THEN you made a joke about it.

Immediately making the joke with no awkward pause/awkward look would have given me a town read (I think).

Let me repeat. I live with Reck. I've played pretty much every face-to-face game I have ever played WITH Reck. Hell, I'm pretty sure I was in that damn hangout. I have no idea what you're talking about, and that's not even a Reck FTF scumtell anyway. It looks to me like you're hanging on to a reason to keep suspicion on Reck.

I don't remember calling you town and I'm pretty sure you misunderstood.

Let me re-explain how this went. Again. Paraphrased from memory, of course.

Me (after everyone's busting my balls by calling me scum, in an attempt to get an actual discussion): Amrun, why am I scum?
Amrun: I didn't say you were scum.
Me: So you think I'm town?
Amrun: I don't think you're town.
*cue me trying to get you to explain and the conversation just dissipating from there*


Too lazy to quote all the waffling on Trollie that coincides with the possibility of his wagon going through. Feel free to look through her ISO and see how many times she changes her mind and when.

Amrun, would you rather lynch trollie before his replacement, or afterward?

Before, if I had a choice. I like preserving game integrity.

ahahahahahahah

Reck voting without saying anything is quite a different thing than you doing it, Grimmjow. Reck has told me a little bit of why he suspects me. It's p stupid, in my opinion, but I clearly have my own bias there.

You, on the other hand, have zero content. You don't get to do that. No.

Content. Now. To EVERYONE.

^after Grimm votes Amrun

I am doubting my previous town read on NS, now.

^after NS votes Amrun

Do you find that games where you are scum affect you more emotionally?

No

^see previous two posts

If you would actually read or listen to anything I've ever said, you would realize that I actually have very distinct opinions that I formed all on my own.

There's still some vodka at the house. I should take a shot for every time you say you're waiting to here from people before giving an opinion, or if you preface your opinions with "I talked with [x]", and I'll get back to you in about an hour. Spoiler:

I'd be hammered as fuck

I at least thought you wouldn't be a dick.

Alright. I think you're scum, but I'm (surprisingly) not intentionally trying to be a dick. Quite a few users here (namely Reck and Grimm) know I've been under a bit of stress lately (accompanied by larger than usual amounts of drinking) and I do apologize if I'm coming off as harsh. Like most of my tirade did last night. Now, this said, I'm not dropping an aggressive attitude towards you since you're scum and I want you lynched, but I'll try and make it more civil-sounding from here on out. From one player to another, game content and whatnot aside, I apologize.

so now that that's out of the way

unvote
vote amrun

[DeathRowKitty]

@Stag

Me: even if he didn't read his role PM closely
Me: scum could talk before the game started
Me: and during the game
Me: there's no way that wasn't brought up
nachomamma8: they can talk, but I don't know whether they did or not. it's possible that thanks to the "talk whenever" mechanic, scumteam doesn't actually have a QT

[InflatablePie]

goddammit

I typed "here" instead of "hear"

I'm a terrible person

[Amrun]

There's still some vodka at the house. I should take a shot for every time you say you're waiting to here from people before giving an opinion, or if you preface your opinions with "I talked with [x]", and I'll get back to you in about an hour. Spoiler: I'd be hammered as fuck

Well if I had a shot for every opinion I've formed on my own that you've entirely ignored, or for every time I'm completely fucking baffled that I'm being suspected for

using the fucking mechanic

, then I'd probably be dead from alcohol poisoning.

The interaction you're quoting from the hang out is exactly what I said - you were NULL at that point. NULL. It's pretty straight forward. I NOW have a town read on you. Before, I didn't. I also didn't have a scumread on you. I wasn't really paying attention to you when I half-assedly answered your questions, because I was more interested in reading other people at that moment and I only have so much mental power to focus on things with at one time.

You clearly think it was a strange way to word it, but I worded it how I worded it and that's that.


As for MoS, YES, I've talked to him 3-4+ times privately, and we've even talked in thread about having private conversations. The things I said came from private conversations, which I even clarified in that same exact post, before you snipped it. Why would you ignore that?